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(Reuters)   Beheading condemned by Muslim Iraqis   ( divider line
    More: Followup  
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26583 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 May 2004 at 10:56 AM (13 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2004-05-12 12:17:52 PM  
11:57:04 AM itsfiveoclocksomewhere -
"The song is gay, the saying has been around for a long time before that hick got hold of it."

That 'hick' uses more creative verse in any one song that he's written than you have ever puked-forth your entire verbal life.

FYI, that 'hick' is also worth about a hundred milion. Chew on that, assclown.
2004-05-12 12:17:53 PM  
You win dude...I cease fire. The puppy did it for me.
2004-05-12 12:17:56 PM  
Bush sent our troops into Afghanistan upsetting OBL and his minions.

Unlike Iraq, Bush didn't lie about the reason for going to Afghanistan. Bush lied about his commitment to capturing OBL but that is another discussion. OBL was a proven threat to the US and he was working out of Afghanistan. The war efforts in Afghanistan can be justified.

Iraq was no threat to the US. Our war effort there is based on lies. Nicholas Berg would have a head today had Bush been honest.

Perl is to Berg as honesty is to deceit. I think you can understand the difference.
2004-05-12 12:18:08 PM  

I really don't like calling people names...

now why do I find that hard to believe?

Bush didn't lie about WMD. If he did, then so to did John Kerry, Bill Clinton, Ted Kennedy and half of Europe.

It remains to be seen if he lied or simply had terrible intelligence, but I think the main problem people have is the administration's overt belligerence and pig-headedness, and eventually evasiveness on the subject, even as it became more evident that there were no WMDs.

Bush has a governing plan for Iraq, but somebody like you obviously aren't aware that these things don't happen overnight.

...or don't happen, period. Look, I hate to burst your bubble, but even conservative pundits have recently begun to call out the administration for NOT having an adequate governing plan, and no contigency plans to speak of, regarding post-war Iraq. If it makes you feel better, I don't think that they intended to have the country frozen in an impossible quagmire of dangerous religious fragmentation, terrorist safe-havens, localized corruption, economic despair and long-term martial law...

And it's American don't negotiate with terrorists.

No, that's Israel's policy, and its more of a principle really, as displayed by the existence of prisoner swaps. America has, in fact, negotiated with terrorists throughout its history, albeit most of the time its behind closed doors. Or does "Iran-Contra" not ring any bells?

Did I mention that you're a dumbass?

2004-05-12 12:18:13 PM  
Yodas Ugly Brother:- Nope. You've got me on that one. awwwwwwwwww.
2004-05-12 12:18:53 PM  
Geez, yesterday's everyone is calling for muslims to denounce this. So today we get various links and even farkers who are muslim decrying it, and all the 'turn the middle east into glass' jerk offs are still at it and haven't acknowledged one single link or farker who has condemned the act. Me thinks our little armchair warriors in this thread are in the same mindset as the crazy terrorist murderers who beheaded that poor guy; it's just too much to view other people as humans who aren't the same as they are.

/Sad day for America
2004-05-12 12:19:10 PM  
koniver-Iraq made a few, weak attempts at terrorism during the first Gulf War. They SUCKED at it. All the missions were complete disasters.

Besides, it's highly unlikely that Saddam and Bin Laden teamed up. In fact, they hated each other. Saddam was a secular dictator, who employed women in top postitions in his government and allowed them to be things such as doctors and other professionals, and didn't force them to wear head scaves. He also had a state-owned brewery (alcohol is a big no-no to devout Muslims). Also, Al Queda was formed initially to FIGHT Saddam. When Saddam invaded Kuwait, and threatened Saudi Arabia, Bin Laden went to the Saudi royal family to protect the kingdom and to possibly kick Saddam out of Kuwait (using his band of merry men on horseback who just kicked the Soviets out of Afghanistan). The Saudis told him to go fark himself, and got the US Army to do the job. This is the root of his hatred towards the US and the Saudi royal family.
d23 [BareFark]
2004-05-12 12:19:20 PM  
oh.. that bingo card I posted is from Purdue. I wish I could claim it.. but it's just a repost.
2004-05-12 12:19:59 PM  
We are in Iraq because of 9/11

No you are not. You are in 9/11 because of Saddam. I'm guessing you don't distrust Bush, and the administration has repeadedly backtracked on their claim that Saddam was linked to 9/11. This may not have been about WMD per se, but that was the public story. Al Quaeda is now active in Iraq because now its a relatively poorly policed playground, er country, with a 24/7 international media presense.

Guess what out-numbered terrorist organizations need to sow the seeds of political dissent and chaos?

You got it: international press broadcasting every US vs. Muslim event.

It's pitiful to watch terrorists manipulate the USA so much. You won't negotiate with terrorists, but you will give them a public stage upon which they can get exactly what they need: exposure. Meanwhile the collateral damage just keeps adding up and you're generating more international ill will. As far as many people are concerned, terrorism looks like a pretty damn effective way to get the worlds attention. And Americans thought Spain was being used! All you tax-hating yokels are running up your bills for a few guys who's most effective military weapon so far has been a 747 and who's most deadly strike only killed around 4 times the amount of American Soldiers who have already died exacting revenge (nevermind the 8000-10000 or so Iraq civilians who have died.)

Hey, I'm not an anti-war kinda guy, but you need somebody up in that White House capable of some mathematics. So far, the war in Iraq is like a freakin infomercial for the efficiency and effectiveness of terrorism.

Real men can take some pain. So far we've learned that if you need the USes attention, you only need to kill roughly the same amount of people who die in auto accidents in one month country-wide. Funny how nobody has launched a war against cars yet. Nuke General Motors!
2004-05-12 12:20:00 PM  
Just out of curiosity man...did you ever think Osama & his buddies were a threat to the US prior to 9/11?
2004-05-12 12:20:11 PM  

I agree that it will be very instructive to compare the reaction of Americans to the two incidents over the next two days.

As a baseline, let's look at what happened to Americans found to have committed murder of Iraqi prisoners.

One of them, a member of the US armed forces, was convicted of murder, and reduced in rank to private. He served no jail time. The other, a contractor, was found to have committed the second murder. According to the reports I have read, there has been no legal action taken against him, although he may have lost his job.

So, if people apply the same standards to the Iraqis, they will be more than happy if the persons responsible for the beheading serve no jail time and have no other action taken against them other than a reduction in rank, or possible removal from the organization.

So, let's hear it. Would that be sufficient punishment for these people in your eyes? One suspects that there will be two very different standards indeed.

The above was a stolen comment from

Sad but true...
2004-05-12 12:21:12 PM  
It's not up to you to say no, just do it and trust in god.

Which "god"? The one that loves being praised while an innocent man's head is sawed off while he screams, choking on his own blood?

That god, he doesn't like women either. What gives?
2004-05-12 12:21:15 PM  
Yodas Ugly Brother
Okay, so even the bunnies didn't work... Time to try the puppy. Surely no one can flame after seeing a picture of a cute puppy, right?!?

That puppy killed my brother.
2004-05-12 12:21:22 PM  
Please tell me you're not even putting the beheading and things our soldiers did anywhere near the same category. The shooting of prisoners and the beheading of an unarmed telecommunications civilian are slightly different.

Depends on the category. I'll take "war crimes," for $200.
2004-05-12 12:21:22 PM  


But if they incline to peace, you also incline to it, and (put your) trust in Allaah.

absolutely right - in fact the strongest proof of that is the fact that Mohammad (who's example muslims follow almost as closely as the Quran) signed a peace treaty with his worst opressors. This treaty that was actually greatly unfavourable to the muslims at the time, but was signed anyway to get peace.
2004-05-12 12:21:36 PM  
"We denounce this act. No-one can accept the killing of another human being in this horrible way," said Yassir Saleh, a 30-year-old barber.

Great, a barber condems it. That should have some real influence.
2004-05-12 12:22:10 PM  
Wow. Y'all are so far behind the curve, you don't even know that there is a curve.
2004-05-12 12:22:12 PM  
Well, I found this instead...
"The form of Islam promoted by men like Mawdudi and Sayyid Qutb, and embraced by the Taliban and the current government in the Sudan differs from other forms of Sunni Islam in the following ways:

1) They believe the gate of ijtihad (interpretation) remains open unlike most Sunnis who believe it was closed in the 9th century.

2) The believe in something called *takfir wa hijr.* This means they hold it impermissible for a Muslim to live in a country not governed by Islamic law without seeking to overthrow and make it Islamic. Otherwise they should immigrate to a place which is truly Muslim.

3) They hold that any nominally Muslim government which does not abide by the shariah (Islamic law) is therefore really apostate. Such a government should be overthrown and its leaders killed. For this reason, hitherto, most of the violence of Islamist groups was aimed at other Muslims. This position, I might add, is basically the same one held by the Kharijites in early Islam. The Kharijites were the faction responsible for assassinating the Imam Ali and have been considered dangerous heretics by both Sunni and Shi'ite Muslims alike.

4) They insist in regarding Christians and Jews as infidels rather than people of the book, and therefore are willing to withdraw their protection and even persecute them. This is the reason why there has been so much violence against Christians in both the Sudan and in Egypt." -

bin Laden follws Sayyid Qutb's teachings. I guess bin Laden was raised Sunni muslim but he sure isn't close to following it. It is interesting to note this in the article... "The second important thinker, and the one who probably had an even greater impact on Osama Bin Laden would be the Sayyid Qutb. Sayyid Qutb was an Egyptian who early in his career might have been described as a Muslim modernists, one who believed that Islam and Western secular ideals could be reconciled. He discarded that idea after coming to study in this country between 1948-50. He was treated in America like any other black man and that treatment completely soured him on the West. He came back to Egypt and embraced a much more rigid and militaristic form of Islam."

Something to think about, perhaps?
2004-05-12 12:22:57 PM  
2004-05-12 12:10:14 PM Geotpf

BenJaxBchFL-Of course, Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11, so if we are there because of 9/11, it would be like FDR attacking India after Pearl Harbour, because, y'know, they are both in Asia.

First, it is very naive to think that Iraq had no contribution to 9/11. Their government is known to financially support terrorists interests. But to respond to your line of thinking. If India had been housing and financing Pearl Harbor like activity then you would have a proper analogy. Many Middle Eastern countries have terrorist groups that are based and operate inside their boundaries. If it was a specific nation this would not be the difficult task that it is. But it is not. It is widespread. They hate us because we support Israel. We could not fight terrorism from our shores. So Iraq gave us the central and strategic positioning needed to take on the US threat of terrorism that has been growing for the past 20+ years.

My point is that the US government concluded that another 9/11 was inevitable and that we must engage the enemy as quickly as possible. Iraq offered the best way of beginning that campaign.
2004-05-12 12:22:59 PM  

I respect your opinion but I don't think that Berg losing his head is the 'direct' responsibility of Pres Bush. Berg was not over there by any direct command (i.e. Military) but rather to make money and he paid the ultimate price in that pursuit. They, the terrorists, used him purposely and will do so with any other person they deem worthy of dying to serve as an example for their cause. I'll say it again: They don't want peace with us, they want us in pieces.
2004-05-12 12:23:00 PM  
Yodas Ugly Brother -

Nope, the puppy didn't do the trick. You might have to step up to Kitten Force...
2004-05-12 12:23:16 PM  
Oh come on people, just look at the cuteness I'm trying to fill the thread with!!!!

[image from too old to be available]

/Eyes filling up with tears.
//Must stop peeling onions at the computer
2004-05-12 12:23:32 PM  

How nice of you to jump into somebody else's conversation. But anyway. I read your remarks, chuckled at your lack of intelligence, and will now move on. Next times, you might want to check your facts before you spew your insanity. Toodles!
2004-05-12 12:23:39 PM  
Here's a good version of the vid if anyone needs it.

It's a .wmv and is less than 3 mg.

Sick Bastard
2004-05-12 12:23:51 PM  
Awwww, puppy!

woof woof
2004-05-12 12:24:12 PM  

All of the evidence that was prsented to the public didn't convince me or the majority of the world. If the evidence was so damning and overwhleming, why is the US and the UK going it alone with a fragile coallition of countries that supply less troops than private comapnies do.

How about former UN inspector Scott Ritter saying that even if Saddam had WMD's, they would have long passed their shelf life. Saddam was impotent. All you had to do was wait a few more months and we'd all have been there together.

Dubya's diplomacy was so bad, he couldn't beat Saddam in a popularity contest.

Everything I said last year about this war is true. The anti-war crowd, those filthy, leftist, tree hugging hippes have been right about more things in this war than wrong.
2004-05-12 12:24:52 PM  
GIS for decapitation.

[image from too old to be available]

It doesn't look so bad.
2004-05-12 12:25:03 PM

with these kind of ppl left to make decisions i cant understand why the Iraqi civilians may hate our troops and thereby help perpetuate this shiat.
2004-05-12 12:25:58 PM  
No the same can't be said about Texas.

Waco was not about religion it was about money.
Pro choicers attacking abortion clinics happens in every bible belt state.(perfect example of American terrorists who really should be dealt with).
And even in Texas we know Bush is a bible thumping dolt.

I work with a few muslims and I dont harbor any ill will toward them. Nor are they afraid that someone is going to kidnap them and brutally murder them on camera.

At least people in Texas are willing to recognize that Deanna Laney is crazy but she is getting treatment and a second chance. We dont take our crazy people, strap explosives to them and tell them to run into crowded places and asplode.

(sorry this took so long)
2004-05-12 12:26:17 PM  
"The Americans killed hundreds in Falluja in retaliation for the mutilation of the four Americans and now those people are killing an American in retaliation for the torture of prisoners," said Arkan Mohammad, a cleric at Baghdad University.

Do you see how this goes, now? We kill some of them. They kill some of us for killing some of them. We kill some more of them for killing some of us for killing some of them. WHEN does it end [remember: there is NOT a fixed number of terrorists or insurgents]?
2004-05-12 12:26:18 PM  
Here's how I see the problem:

We have a bunch of 20-45 year old guys trapped in crappy countries where everything is bombed out, ancient or desert. Add to that the fact that they can't see the women there, even when they're about to marry them (and there's no damned dating or making out at the drive in, or hand jobs in the back seat of dad's car, either). Then add in a little religious stress that says sex and porn and sports and music is immoral and evil. Mix in some government propoganda that says their suffering and their blue balls are the fault of the West. As a finishing touch, make them pray every farking day--stop what you're doing and pray, motherfarker!

No wonder they're all pent-up and aggressive. Fighting, arguing and squabbling is all they have to do there. It's all they've ever done: they have no farking outlet for all that testosterone--they don't have jobs to keep them busy during the day and they don't have drinking buddies, they have jihads and other assholes willing to blow themselves up. It's all just more noticable today because they have bigger guns instead of just some sticks and camels they found in the desert.

My solution? Porn and strippers. Lots of both. Get these guys laid and release some of that anger. Hook 'em up with ESPN and get some friggin' sports beaming in there. Open some bars and let them have fights over beergoggle skanks like everyone else in the civilized world. Get the chicks that do live there out of those damned birkas and let 'em wear miniskirts and tube tops and high-heels. And for Pete's sake, stop shoving that damned religion crap down their throats.

It's all just sexual frustration over there. If these bastards had rubbed one out that morning, they would have been in no mood to cut anybody's head off...
2004-05-12 12:26:27 PM  
Everything I said last year about this war is true. The anti-war crowd, those filthy, leftist, tree hugging hippes have been right about more things in this war than wrong. NutznGum

You been sharin' the bong with Dan Rather again?
2004-05-12 12:26:36 PM  
[image from too old to be available]

So where the heck are these guys now?
2004-05-12 12:27:14 PM  
AnonymousGuy - ok, I will ignore the source and just comment on the fact that this article seems to be clearly written for people who do not know that Iraq and Afghanisan don't border and are seperate by a very hostile nation.
2004-05-12 12:27:54 PM  

First, it is very naive to think that Iraq had no contribution to 9/11. Their government is known to financially support terrorists interests.

So, you have proof that Iraq financed terrorist groups that were behind 9-11?

If so, we're all waiting to see it.
2004-05-12 12:28:04 PM  
Just watched the Nick Berg murder video myself. It had the intended effect at first. First I felt sick to my stomach, then i felt great hatred towards muslims in general, but then I came to my senses and felt great sorrow for all muslims, both the misguided ones in the video, and all the other innocent muslims in the world in which this evil is being committed in the name of their belief. Muslims in general need to be more vocal about denouncing things like this. By remaining silent, they are, in the least, tolerating this aberrant behavior, and at the most, condoning it. Something needs to change, and the United States nor any other non-muslim entity can change it for them by idiotic brute Bush-force, they need to change themselves.
2004-05-12 12:28:05 PM  

I am not saying what you think I am saying at all - I am saying that all of these acts are abhorrent - whether killing/maiming innocents in captivity (remember innocent until proven guilty?) possibly because you and your compatriots believe these people to be of a lower order of humanity - or killing individuals in a cowardly manner hiding behind scarves and somehow believing you have the moral authority. - it is all pathetic and a shame to the human nation - I do not put levels on it and compare the levels of cowardice and barbarism - that would be infantile
2004-05-12 12:28:19 PM  
Not going to read the whole thread, but the second post by stevarooni is pretty much spot on.

Most Muslims, and believe it or not, i know a few, hate this shiat.
2004-05-12 12:28:26 PM  
one nagging question that nobody seems to have answered.

Was this guy Jewish?

if so...was he frickin' NUTS to be there?
2004-05-12 12:28:41 PM  

Iraqi defectors have truned out to be as trustworthy as an Enron executive. Google 'Curveball' and have a fun read.
2004-05-12 12:28:48 PM  

Can you take Andrea Yates and strap her with explosives please? Maybe she could run into Ted Kennedy or something like that?
2004-05-12 12:29:09 PM  

Interesting post. I'm running late for class, but I would like to point out that Qutb's influential book 'Milestones' which was written while Qutb was in Boulder, CO is really a criticism of the Arab-Nationalist Nasserist regime in Egypt. His actually had much respect for certain aspects of American society--particularly its freedom of religion. Many analysts have overstated Qutb's critiques of the West--by interpreting his criticisms of a jahilliyah culture as the West--when Qutb was really speaking of Egypt's secular establishment.

/Middle Eastern studies major
2004-05-12 12:29:25 PM  
Partisan's a well known fact...Saddam himself promised to reward the families of suicide bombers in Israel. Something like $25,000 a family.
2004-05-12 12:29:28 PM  

All of the evidence that was prsented to the public didn't convince me or the majority of the world.

Hogwash. Four years ago all of these nations [including France] and even our previous administration were declaring that Iraq had WMD. Even UN believed Iraq wasn't complying with disarming and passed more resolutions.



2004-05-12 12:29:58 PM  
nhurly -

Judging from your bio, we not only share jobs and views, but a weird feeling about Berg vid. I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but...

It took all morning but I finally convinced myself to watch the video (FYI posted for all the world to see on, and during the very protracted preamble, I noticed Berg's head (pre-cut, jokesters) simply wasn't moving or blinking. It's like a static floating Jesus face. Maybe my streaming is farked to graininess, but my eye sees a collaged image. Was this thing FX'd?

Maybe it's just wishful thinking. Execution - especially beheading - is my all-time greatest bugbear (give me buried alive anyday). Maybe it's my massive knee-jerk aversion to the idea.

/guillotined in past life?
2004-05-12 12:29:58 PM  
I don't think that Berg losing his head is the 'direct' responsibility of Pres Bush. Berg was not over there by any direct command (i.e. Military)

I gotta go so this will be my last communicaion.

Berg had been trying to get out of Iraq. He went there to help out with the reconstruction but when the situation got bad he couldn't leave. The US military detained him for a couple weeks. When they finally did release him, they just let him go with no protection and no way out.
2004-05-12 12:29:59 PM  
Many Iraqis say they oppose the U.S.-led occupation...
Both Syrians questioned said they would defeat the infidels.
2004-05-12 12:30:09 PM  

And anyone who supported the war did so on the evidence presented by the Administration.

The evidence wasn't gathered by the administration, however. The administration viewed the very same evidence and came to the very same conclusion everyone else did.

... except everyone else didn't go to war over it.
2004-05-12 12:30:11 PM  
This news makes very little difference. Most people realize that such brutality is unacceptable, regardless of ideology. This is not "news". It is just a part of life, there are and always will be those in society who deviate to the extreme. I suspect the average Iraqi like the average American was frightened, saddened, disgusted and angered by the video. Iraq has gone through years of brutal dictatorship, followed by a war and subsequent occupation. Its currently in a state of trauma and near anarchy. I dont expect much more than traumatic anarchy to be reciprocated by them. For the "glass parking lot" cocksmokes, get some perspective. The news yesterday in Chicago included a story of a mother killing her baby daughter by placing her in a drawer with a pillow on it and closing the drawer to kill her. Why? Because the baby wouldnt stop crying. Other news included revisiting the trial of two men found innocent of killing a young black kid for whistling at a white woman, despite the fact that they DID commit the crime. This, in a civilized and sophisticated Christian country whos biggest fears and concerns are public speaking and carbohydrates. Get some perspective.

/ 2 cents
2004-05-12 12:30:12 PM  

Thanks, nice to know that and have some proof of it to show for next time. Much appreciated. Edumacashun, gotta love it.
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