Yeah, that's some real contrition going on. Wonder how hard it was for them to stifle their smirks.

And it's good to see that Reuters is keeping up their usual attempts to make it seem as if everything wrong in the world is the fault of the U.S. "...but many said his death was just the latest atrocity in a cycle of violence that is driving them to despair." Yeah, kinda like the terrible U.S. oppression that left al Qaeda no other option but to kill a few thousand civilians.

shouldn't this have an 'unlikely' tag?

I assume that those unwilling to accept that the average Iraqi thinks the killing was horrible are the same Americans who smirk and joke about the abuse and torture of Iraqis by US soldiers.

I've gotta believe most people anywhere would be offended by this kind of action anywhere in the world.

I'm honestly curious... has the Arab world been able to see OUR reaction to the torture of these prisoners (for the vast majority of Americans, utter disgust with what happened)?
Or have they just heard about the few backwoods idiots who support what happened?

How about condemning the beheaders to death instead? Or is that against Islam?

So Al Queda is in Iraq, this should quite some people over this war.

There's some of the outcry from the Muslim world. Just some.

If there are any Muslim Farkers out there, this would be a very good time to speak out. I know there's no way to verify your Muslimness, but we're pretty good BS sniffers around here.

For my 0.02, my muslim friends are pretty non partisan, life and let live folks.

This cycle of violence has to end somehow. Pray for peace.

I have to go with the "Peoples is peoples" argument. If I didn't, I think I'd have trouble convincing myself to leave for work in the morning. Think of the folks that rush to help people escape a burning car after a crash at great risk to themselves. Think of firefighters or police officers. I'm afraid that the trend is toward more self-absorbed behavior, or fear of getting involved due to lawsuits, etc., but I still believe that most strangers I meet have basic human qualities and concern for each other.

I also believe that fundamentalist religious beliefs, regardless of the religion, create an "us vs. them" mentality which is unhealthy for humanity.

koniver

So Al Queda is in Iraq, this should quite some people over this war.

Um yeah, we treated a phantom cancer by lighting up a bunch of cigarettes, now we see a cancer, so obviously it was there all along.

Just did my NY/NJ and/or deep south check on your bio... sho' nuff it checked out.

But some of the city's poorer residents said they supported the killing, arguing it was acceptable retribution for the abuses the U.S. military had committed in Iraq.

Iraqi/Islamic rednecks?

The Middle East produces nothing but violence and religious fanaticism. It is time to completely annihilate the region.

So does this mean Fox News and its brethren will finally STFU about the outrage over the outrage over the abuse of Iraqi prisoners? Or would they prefer it if every Muslim in the world personally kissed Bush's ass in public first?

Iraqi/Islamic rednecks?

Exactly.

stryder989

The Middle East produces nothing but violence and religious fanaticism. It is time to completely annihilate the region.

same could be said about texas

I love Fark but I can honestly not believe these "glass parking lot" comments which will inevitably come within a few posts. It's amazing and sickening how unbelievably racist some people can be. I just wanted to say that.

Besides that, I feel this whole thing is farked up. And I'm more than willing to believe that the Muslim Iraqis condemn this. It's only human.

2004-05-12 10:59:44 AM koniver

So Al Queda is in Iraq, this should quiet some people over this war.

Exactly. They certainly wouldn't have been in a country like Iraq if not for the war. Now the political situation is such a mess it's ideal territory for them. See how much reaction they can get with one murder.

koniver
So Al Queda is in Iraq, this should quite some people over this war.

Al Qaeda is in Iraq now, there's little question of that. The question is whether they were there before we turned a controlling police state into free-for-all anarchy, and that's pretty unlikely.

Al Qaeda hated everything Saddam stood for, a secular dictatorship that pays lip service to Islam, very much like they hate the Saudi royals. It doesn't make any sense that they would work with Saddam for any purpose.

Too bad is isn't being condemned by some "college educated, free-thinking" Americans.

Ha ha! In the threads yesterday everyone was complaining that the arab world was just going to ignore this. Justification is sweet.

puffy999 If they haven't been able to see our reaction, then liberals can't be told they're "giving aid and comfort" to the enemy - but if they have seen our reaction, they'll also get added determination from the glass parking lot crowd to do it again. Nice conundrum for the right wing.

koniver Yes, Al Qaida is now in Iraq, riding the tide of incoming terrorists seeking to fill the vacuum left by the removal of Saddam. Why are they there? No more Saddam and Americans to bomb. If they are in Iraq because of the war, it's not going to quiet anybody down who was against it before - as their presence is just another sign of how badly planned the invasion was.

You know just how disingenuous all this is when you read a comment like a student saying "I can't believe this sort of thing would happen in my country". This, after Saddam did so many things, just as bad, if not worse.

Sadly, so many of these people are unwilling to look at their own history and compare where their relative improvements are going to be drawn from. Who offers them a better future? Al Qaeda? The Islamo-Fascist fundamentalists? Or the West (particularly the US)?

The US can continually be called a "bully", "arrogant", "abusive", or anything else negative. But, in reality, we are far more tolerant and progressive, and that video shows just how far more progressive we are.
Abu Ghraib, which I'm sure some moron will bring up to show me how I'm "wrong", was an anomaly. In fact, who brought it to light - Al Qaeda? No, WE did, on our own. Their culture would hide it and deny it.
No culture is free from imperfections, but some are more willing than others to be open about them and address them.

Fark. Not closing bold tags is bad, mmmkay?

koniver - unless these guys can show Al Queda membership cards that are over a year old, it says nothing. More likely this is an example of the whole 'creating support for bin Laden' thing.

And wasn't it asked 'where is Muslim outrage?'

Puffy, I've wondered that too. Most people I've discussed the prison abuse with are apalled and embarassed by it.

Somehow I doubt that's how it plays on al jazeera.

"It was done according to Islamic Sharia, and the Americans should know that there is a price they will pay for the atrocities they commit."

Is there really part in there that provides for the beheading of an uninvolved party whose only crime was to be of the same nationality as whoever they were trying to punish?

"2004-05-12 10:59:44 AM koniver
So Al Queda is in Iraq, this should quite some people over this war."

Clueless idiot. Al Qaeda only stepped in after the baathist/Saddam reigime had been ousted by the US army, before that they would have been slaughtered had they tried to get into Iraq, now they have the support of a large % of Iraqis.

2004-05-12 10:30:34 AM stevarooni: "Most people are just people, and wouldn't wish this kind of slaughter upon any human being."

I think this sentiment is, above all others, the most important to keep in mind. Almost every person on the planet just wants to get through the day and provide for their families and don't harbor any ill will one way or another.

this war is a farkin disaster

stryder989

Hey! Great idea! Why don't we kill everybody who seems to produce nothing but violence and religious fanaticism. I'll go get my iron... my tire iron, and we'll go on a little road trip to Alabama.

Let's see Al-Jazeera prominently report this, as well as condemnation from other Muslim leaders from around the Middle East and elsewhere, on its satellite, TV, and internet outlets. Then we'll talk.

Good.

Now if only some of our "leaders" would get off the soapbox, realize that their words are only inflaming the problem, and understand that what we did was atrocious and inexcusable, too.

Maybe the NTIs will create a wall of water and get all of us to stop this madness...

I am relieved somewhat to see that they would condemn an obvious heinous act.

I am much more relieved to actually see it *reported*.

Al Qaeda was in Iraq before the war, too. Whether they agreed with Saddam or were in cahoots with him is beside the point.

In Arabic circles, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" is the rule. While the two disliked and hated each other, they found mutual common ground in many areas. While they may not have directly worked together or provided direct assistance, both turned a blind eye about certain activities, when it was in their best interests.

Saddam had no problem with terrorists operating on Iraqi turf as long as they didn't threaten him directly. That's why he let several Al-Qaeda aligned groups exist in border areas, where they were harassing Iran.

"condemned" being the operative word. Goodbye Iraq!

Yeah, right. And Bush condemns the reduction in civil liberties for which his administration is responsible.

/whatever

flubby

Best.Pic.Ever.
I wish i coulda voted for it.

2004-05-12 11:04:41 AM Zippy_da_Midget


Iraqi/Islamic rednecks?

Exactly.

Unfortunately, a Google Image Search for "Iraqi Redneck" doesn't provide anything useful.

flameflameflameflameflameflameflame

/wishes to join Flubby

Anyone else curious about the Berg execution?


Why is there an eleven hour gap in the time stamp of the video?

Why does the audio not match the video?

Why is it just a pool of blood rather than the spurting you'd expect from a sliced jugular?

Why was Berg detained by US officials in Iraq?

What did they do with Berg when they released him?

What happened during the weeks between his release and his death?



I believe this was a legitimate execution by terrorists, but I have my questions.

Why do so many news sites now have multi-page articles? They couldn't have put that last paragraph on the first page?

2004-05-12 11:09:07 AM elrond: "Al Qaeda was in Iraq before the war, too."

I have yet to see a scintilla of evidence to support that statement. Have any?

"It's a brutal, inhuman act. As Muslims our religion prohibits us from committing such acts," he said.

Hasn't stopped them so far, has it?

Makes me wonder if this guy was onto something.


/now where'd I put that bottle of nitromethane.

elrond - most of the world operates that, that is how the seeds of these groups got so scattered during the Cold War.

And until recently, Islamic fundimentalism was concerned a bigger threat to the Baathists then anything else, thus the allowed groups to harrass Iran. Not allied to Al Qaeda in any way, mostly due to the fact that those groups are Shiite Iraninan ex-patriots and therefore not 'kosher' so to speak.

I'm waiting to hear more about Nicholas Berg's activities before he was executed. For example, just what it was that he was doing that meant he got arrested by the Iraqi police, handed over to coalition forces and held for another 2 weeks. Either way, it doesn't justify this, but you've got to wonder...

Incidentally, those of you looking for personal comments and reactions from Arabs and Muslims from around the world should check this out:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/3706763.stm

Too little too late. Begin thermonuclear glass production. I need some new CHRISTmas tree ornaments.