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(Some Blogger)   Last request of AA founder, dying of emphysema: A few shots of whiskey   (theagitator.com) divider line 341
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27445 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 May 2004 at 4:08 AM (11 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2004-05-09 09:45:34 PM  
Wow, what a misguided article, I feel a need to respond:

First of all, if I ask for alcohol when I'm on my deathbed, I hope I am refused. That stuff did things to my mind that I hope many of you can not imagine. My life was absolute hell while I was on the sauce. Even just the few drinks needed to get by in the day were enough for me to be as twisted as I never wanted to be.

Next: of all of the recovering friends I know, the only ones that are still suffering are the ones that aren't working on getting their lives straight. Being without a drink is fine and dandy, but alcoholism is a symptom of a deeper moral fissure which alcolohics should be encouraged to rectify.

So what ill effects can an alcoholic on his deathbed forsee if he returns to drinking? A return to the worst thing on earth - insanity. There are places darker than an alley in the ghettos of Baghdad right now. I've been to those places. God willing I need never return.

Disclaimer: Your experience may be different, mileage may vary with conditions, objects in the mirror are closer than they appear, contents may shift during shipment.
 
2004-05-09 10:07:54 PM  
A little insanity on the death bed isn't that bad.
 
2004-05-09 10:41:01 PM  
I lost my brother two months ago to emphysema and other health problems brought on in part by alcoholism and I can say without any reservation that he was the most dedicated drunk I've ever met. I thank God that he finally quit drinking two years ago but, as uncle_dad alluded to, he never worked on the deeper moral fissure(s) that were really at the root of his problems. When he passed, he was sober, and in doing so I hope he finally found peace.

All the best to you, u_d
 
2004-05-09 11:23:07 PM  
uncle_dad
alcoholism is a symptom of a deeper moral fissure which alcolohics should be encouraged to rectify

What is this deeper moral fissure that alcoholism is a symptom of?

My parents were both alcoholics, as were their parents. By moral fissure do you mean genetic predisposition?
 
2004-05-09 11:26:43 PM  
My mother was an alcoholic, and it wasn't pleasant. But if you're on your deathbed, anything goes. I never used narcotics, but if I was about to die, I'd farking get stoned off my ass.
 
2004-05-10 12:41:14 AM  
If I was about to die... well, I'd take every farking drug I can think of, that wouldn't kill me (immediately).

I'd snort farking Comet cleanser if I could!
 
2004-05-10 01:28:04 AM  
uncle_dad

While I understand, and respect your post, I cannot agree.
Bill W., having shown admirable strength by not drinking, and saving countless lives in the process, was just like any other alcoholic. He wasn't gonna drink "just for today", it doesn't mean he didn't desire a drink everyday. He didn't spend the rest of his life not wanting to drink. He just didn't, because he knew of the consequences.

I think a drink on his deathbed, wouldn't have sent him into a fit of torture, but rather would have been a fitting reward that he earned, and had been waiting for, for quite some time.

That being said. My DEATHBED? Screw whiskey. GIVE ME A BROMPTONS COCKTAIL!
 
2004-05-10 02:13:19 AM  
As someone who has dealt with way too many family member alchoholics, and who probably would be an alchoholic too had he not had those experiences, I don't see what's so awful about this. Being an alchoholic means you drink in spite of the consequences you will face. If there are no consequences (i.e. you're about to die) then drinking isn't an irresponsible decision.
Just my opinion... no disprespect meant to people in recovery.
 
2004-05-10 02:43:35 AM  
alcoholics look for any excuse, bill w craping out would have made it that much harder for alot of drunks, maybe me too, i have 12 yrs instead... he made himself into a public figure, based upon the idea that a group of people could help someone not drink, i dont think he had the choice, somewhere at least one public figure has to earn his keep
 
2004-05-10 04:14:35 AM  
"Recovery" is bullshiat. Just look at the dry drunk running the gubmint. It's a deeply flawed philosophy that's more akin to S&M than any sort of religious ideal.
 
2004-05-10 04:15:22 AM  
the man who sobered up millions "asked for three shots of whiskey."

He was quite upset when he didn't get them, Cheever writes.

Wilson asked for booze again about a week later, on Jan. 2, 1971.

And on Jan. 8.

And on Jan. 14.

oh for christ sake, the man is dying let him have a drink one last time.
 
2004-05-10 04:15:38 AM  
I'll drink to that!
 
2004-05-10 04:20:17 AM  
I'd rather some morphine, please.

No need to wait for the deathbed, either. :)
 
2004-05-10 04:21:29 AM  
vzleon

You know how Tim Leary went out, right? You got it, tripping his balls off on LSD in a hospital bed.
 
lbn
2004-05-10 04:22:05 AM  
When I die I want to be drunk and asleep. Not sober and screaming like my passengers.
 
2004-05-10 04:23:19 AM  
Mission accomplished?
 
2004-05-10 04:26:13 AM  
uncle_dad


Big farkin deal...

So, you are a misfit...You feel thaty, even on your deathbed, alcohol will be to blame for your misgivings?


O.k... Thats cool... An excuse that works, is a good excuse..


This guy wanted, and should have gotten, 3 shots of whiskey.. The scumbags that refused, should be ashamed.. I hope their lives end painfully, and slowly.
 
cot
2004-05-10 04:32:56 AM  
"My parents were both alcoholics, as were their parents. By moral fissure do you mean genetic predisposition?"

Try learned behavior/coping mechanism.

"Alcoholism" is not a disease. It's a behavior problem.
 
2004-05-10 04:39:13 AM  
"Alcoholism" is not a disease. It's a way of life.
 
2004-05-10 04:39:42 AM  
feh

this whole thread is just pissing me off..
BFD, the only effect the desired 3 shots would have had on the guys life, would have been an ending he would be happy with.


the holier than thou bullshiat i am reading in this is disgusting, imo..

He was farkin dying, who has the right to deny him what he is legally, and rightfully entitled to???

Nobody.. I don't give a shiat what 'therapy' he created..How does that justify denying the man his dying request??


If it were Richard Simmons, should he be refused a farkin cheeseburger??


I hate this sort of shiat... And i hate the scumbag tub thumpers that spew it.
 
cot
2004-05-10 04:43:10 AM  
Butternutts:

I bet Atkins asked for some mashed potatoes and pasta on his deathbed, but they probably just crammed him full of red meat. Poor farker...
 
2004-05-10 04:44:05 AM  
my father is a nut case, drunk. sober for five years now, but i remember those calls late at night, him needing help out of some crazy chit he got in to, knife ,gun fights, one time even a sword fight in a bar parking lot at 2:30 am,with me 12 years old waiting for dad in the car(he had me on weekends, yeah fun times with dad!)
he even ran me over once when i tried to stop him from driving, then came back and pistol wipped me, lol.
i kicked his ass that night, and never let him lay a hand on me again. he's the meanest drunk this side of hell, however, if he was on his death bed, and he wanted a drink, i would gladly give it to him, what the hell, why die craving something? i cant give him peace, or make him forget how much of a piece of crap he was for a dad, but i could send him on his way, a little happy...no?...
 
2004-05-10 04:45:19 AM  
He knew he was dying and he knew what alcohol did. Maybe he wanted to remember what it tasted like? Maybe he wanted to dull the pain a little bit? Or maybe, just maybe he just wanted to face it one last time and dump it all out! I would like to think the last one was true but there was only one person who really knew what was going on.

Personally, if he asked me for 3 shots of whiskey, I would have brought him a bottle of Jack Daniels Single Barrel and held his hand while he poured. Fighting alcoholism is a personal battle and it is not up to anyone to tell anyone else what they should and shouldn't do. If this guy wanted whiskey, dammit give him a farking bottle of whiskey!
 
2004-05-10 04:46:09 AM  
I'm pretty sure it's a policy of ANY hospital not to be giving out booze no matter what the circumstance.
 
2004-05-10 04:46:56 AM  
Butternutts:

I bet Atkins asked for some mashed potatoes and pasta on his deathbed, but they probably just crammed him full of red meat. Poor farker...


[image from forum.offshoregamblersdigest.com too old to be available]

probably
 
2004-05-10 04:47:22 AM  
If he spent his whole life struggling to do without, then on his death bed I cant see why he couldnt have had it then.

then again, I think most people who are addicts can relate, and those who have enver been addicted to anything cannot.

I cant iamgine what harm it woulda done.
 
2004-05-10 04:47:31 AM  
Raider_dad

you must be some kind of farking moron.
 
2004-05-10 04:49:58 AM  
Not a moron..

why would you think so?
 
2004-05-10 04:50:04 AM  

Geez the guy is sober for 30 years and wants a blast on his deathbed. Let him have a little tipple if he wants it. He was the one who decied to sober up, he should be the one to decide to booze it up again.


I thought AA was about people deciding for themselves to be sober, not to be forced by others to be sober.


Holy Jeez, the man was dying not driving a school bus, give him a farking snort if he wants it.

 
cot
2004-05-10 04:50:48 AM  
I googled some stuff on alcoholism as a disease out of curiosity.

This is hilarious. He starts with the claim that it's a genetic disease. Now read his second paragraph.

link

How dense can someone be? People LEARN from their families, often whether they want to or not, and whether they're aware of it or not. Just because you do something your dad did and his dad did doesn't mean it's a hardwired genetic physical disorder. It just means your dad and grandfather taught you how to be a loser in the traditional family style.
 
2004-05-10 04:53:38 AM  
wildancrazy159
I was believing your story ... till you got tto this part.

"he even ran me over once when i tried to stop him from driving, then came back and pistol wipped me, lol."

/gullible, but not THAT gullible.
 
cot
2004-05-10 04:54:52 AM  
I think Raider_dad has a point about hospital policy, but the tone of the person recalling the events is still pretty lame. If it were someone I knew, I'd sneak them in the whisky, not lament the grip of the evil alcohol on their tormented soul.
 
2004-05-10 04:55:23 AM  
cot

You're absolutely right. This is strictly a behavioral issue. Any stretch to reach a medical cause is motivated financially.

raider_dad

I'll type extra slowly so you can can understand. Bill wasn't asking for prescription hooch.
 
2004-05-10 04:56:50 AM  
cot - you dumbass, alcoholism is indeed a disease with a genetic predisposition. There's no doubt that you can be predisposed to alcoholism without even touching a drop of the stuff, and that it's genetic. Sure, there's an environmental component - if your parents drink a lot, chances are you will too since you've learned from your parents that drinking a lot isn't a problem. But just because there's an environmental factor doesn't mean it's not also genetic.

Do some research next time (more than just looking at a random post on a BBS)
 
2004-05-10 04:58:04 AM  
Nice to see he finally saw the error of his ways.
 
2004-05-10 04:59:33 AM  
Tin Foil Hat

I know what your saying,and it seems harmless since he was dying but I still doubt any hospital would grant anyone that wish.
 
2004-05-10 05:00:14 AM  
Aranor

Again, this is more just mere fluff of the day. These theories of genetic disposition aren't conclusive.
 
cot
2004-05-10 05:03:16 AM  
That was simple anecdotal evidence that I found humorous because it was rather inconsistent. "I believe A. Why? Well, here's evidence of not A"

Sure you can be genetically predisposed to enjoy the effects of alcohol, just like you can be genetically predisposed to like cherry ice cream.

But lots of people like alcohol, and only a small subset of them abuse it to the point of total self destruction. This is a behavioral issue, nothing more.

And don't call me a dumbass, dumbass.

PS I dont know if it's your behavior or a family member's that you like to rationalize by calling alcoholism a disease, but its not, and either you or that family member has no excuses for however bad you farked up.
 
2004-05-10 05:04:06 AM  
no, vzleon, its true,he called me late that night, said he was in some crap, he could hide if he was drinking, and it was not every day, sometimes weeks would go by.
i came over, he was blazing drunk, he wanted me to help him, "take care of some guys" i said hell no, and tried to calm him down, but you can NOT talk to a drunk with murder in his eye.
pushed me out of the way, went to his car, i stood in back, thinking "hey, its my dad, he wont backup" lol, well i was wrong, he did knocked me over, i rolled outside his turn, he took off, i sat there, realizing what had happend, he then came back, said i was a weak, not his son, he tripped and fell, in doing so, he dropped some papers out of his shirt pocket, i reached down with out thinking to pick them up, and thats when he hit me with a colt snuby .38 in the side of my head, i still to this day have the lump behind my right ear, we had a knock down drag out fight, i thought he was going to shoot my ass.
its true, thats all i can say.........
 
2004-05-10 05:05:06 AM  
Isn't the real success of having beaten alcoholism the ability to enjoy alcohol at a regular recommended level?
It seems to me that when one is classified as an alcoholic, they are discouraged drinking for life. Surely a better way is to monitor their intake so that they drink alcohol at said "normal" level.
IMO Bill should have gotten that drink. He was sober for 30 years and that is 30 years too long IMO. I'm not advocating getting steaming drunk every weekend but on his deathbed it wouldn't hurt anyone.
Also, I agree with Uncle Dad about recovering alcoholics having to beat their inner demons. This is the key to drinking "normally".
 
2004-05-10 05:05:19 AM  
Raider_dad

I'm pretty sure it's a policy of ANY hospital not to be giving out booze no matter what the circumstance.


You're wrong. Here's a tip for a way to get lots of free drink forced into you really quick; drink methanol then go to A&E and tell them what you did.
 
2004-05-10 05:05:46 AM  
Raider_dad

Ok, now i am typing extra slowly. He wasn't necessarily asking for the hospital's implicit permission.

Also, just to be mean and critical, if your basic grammar and spelling skills are as poor as demonstrated here, you shouldn't be having kids.
 
2004-05-10 05:06:39 AM  
When I'm on my deathbed, I want a drip feeding the foulest street-blend of mind-farkingly filthly PCP directly into my heart. My doctors will all be fired, and replaced by Hunter S Thompson, Dennis Hopper and Charles Manson, who will have free reign to suggest any form of psycotropic treatment that they see fit. I want sixteen Swedish blonde nurses taking turns to inject pure smack directly into my eyeball, while Jack Nicholson mixes Absinthe and Meths slammers. I will also require bedsheets soaked in LSD and every pill I take to numb the pain will be at least 80% MDMA. Each meal I eat will either be dolphin, deep-fried in baby seal fat and served with a side order of magic mushrooms and pan-fried rare orchids, or Bengal Tiger and Koala Bear pie. I want Celine Dion and Michael Bolton beaten to death using only frozen dead fish and taped, the recording of their increasingly feeble moans played at bowel-shattering volume, while artists carve giant sculptures of my cock into a six foot block of lung-burstingly potent Colombian uber-Chang.

Not too much to ask, I think you'll agree.
 
2004-05-10 05:07:01 AM  
 
2004-05-10 05:08:32 AM  
Tin Foil Hat

NOW I GET IT! THANKS

too late about the kids part.
 
2004-05-10 05:09:25 AM  
the whole point of the above is that i(a once in a blue moon DRINKER) after going though that crap with a family member,would have no problem giving a guy his drink,the past is over, its done, why the hell would i begruge a man his last request?.......
 
2004-05-10 05:11:02 AM  
impaler

Right! Another one for the defense.

/booze rests.
 
2004-05-10 05:11:17 AM  
Tin Foil Hat


Raider_dad

Ok, now i am typing extra slowly. He wasn't necessarily asking for the hospital's implicit permission.



extra slowly?
 
2004-05-10 05:14:27 AM  
wildancrazy159
pushed me out of the way, went to his car, i stood in back, thinking "hey, its my dad, he wont backup" lol, well i was wrong, he did knocked me over, i rolled outside his turn, he took off, i sat there, realizing what had happend, he then came back, said i was a weak, not his son, he tripped and fell, in doing so, he dropped some papers out of his shirt pocket, i reached down with out thinking to pick them up, and thats when he hit me with a colt snuby .38 in the side of my head, i still to this day have the lump behind my right ear, we had a knock down drag out fight, i thought he was going to shoot my ass."

longest. sentence. ever.
/still not falling for it.
 
2004-05-10 05:14:41 AM  
Wow, pretty intense topic.

I'm an Alcoholic. I have no control over myself when it comes to indulging in Alcohol. If I choose to drink, I will become physically addicted to it (ever had the DT's? freakin' scary stuff man).

Using AA (in combination with competent psychiatric help), I was able to leave that spectre behind me over 8 years ago. I no longer go to AA, nor do I feel a "need" to.

12-steppers are pretty harsh, and I know that I'd fall onto their shiat list for my many "failings" as a recovering alcoholic. I still like an occasional spliff (BIG VIOLATION of 12 stepping), and am far from "pure" in many respects.

On the other hand, the smoke now and again, or even a brief foray into other substances does not provoke the "hunger" (for lack of a better word). Nor do sex or video games (or even FARK).

It's hard as hell to describe, but there is a DIFFERENCE between desire and need. I can desire a smoke, but if i drink, I will wind up NEEDING that drink.

All of that being said, if I'm on my deathbed, gimme several shots of Stoli.

Peace.
 
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