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(Salt Lake Tribune)   What would Buffy do? LDS leader compares young Mormans to Buffy the Vampire Slayer.   (166.70.46.216) divider line 282
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7536 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 May 2004 at 9:00 PM (10 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2004-05-08 09:59:45 PM

Kirk: "Oh, him? He's harmless. Part of the free speech movement at Berkeley in the sixties. I think he did a little too much LDS."
 
2004-05-08 10:00:31 PM
This type of tactic is VERY common in churches everywhere. They need to keep raising fresh crops of malleable young minds and you know these kids today: homo-bashing and Jesus Chainsaw Massacre only holds their attention for so long...

Is there a better way to brainwash than to co-opt the creativity and appeal of others work?

This unoriginal freak is using Buffy the same way Charlie Manson used The White Album. To get stupid young people to do stupid things for him.

/waiting for Buffy The Mormon Slayer
 
2004-05-08 10:02:15 PM
so is this guy a church leader, or just one of those nuts they bring into pep of the youth of the church?

No, he is not a church leader. He just sounds like a motivational speakers.

/Hates motivational speakers. All of them.
 
2004-05-08 10:03:05 PM
I want to see Eliza Dushku in Mormon magic underwear.
 
2004-05-08 10:08:12 PM
"Christianity may have its idiosyncracies, but there is a time, place, and style for proper criticism, and you are adhering to none. Not every thread needs its "infinity" counter."

Boo hoo hoo. Here, have a tissue...
 
2004-05-08 10:12:11 PM
Denizen:
"Koowan66, it's a major fallacy that Mormons think that all Native Americans are actually Jews. The Book of Mormon tells of a small group in an isolated area whose population never rose above about three million. Before the Spanish introduced plagues that killed 90% of the native population, there were about 300 million Native Americans. The argument is not insane, and the evidence is there. I believe it and am not an idiot, you don't have to believe it and still be a good person, it's as simple as that."

You have to understand how absolutely ridiculous this sounds to anybody with any kind of education beyond Barney. I can get my head around Jewish Indian tribes on the east coast maybe (Miami Beach and Newark) but in the West? Nonsense.

Joseph Smith was a convicted con-man and gold-digger (a very specific form of scam back then involving digging up planted gold) who goes on to guess what, digging up gold plates.

The United States has spawned two major religions in its brief history: Scientology and Mormanism. Both are very American - as American as anything PT Barnum ever fielded.

suckers
 
2004-05-08 10:12:11 PM
Krizalid:

Still, Buddhism came about as a means to end suffering through the middle way, originally. If there was no suffering, originally, there would be no Buddhism.

Yes, Mormon girls are hot. A friend and I have routinely agreed that many are closet-nymphos, based on testimonials from those we know in the church.

I found this quote quite humorous: 'Or the time they went drinking at a fraternity party and "almost got eaten by a terrifying sewer worm when the college guys turned out to belong to a cult," he says.'

/waiting for the Mormon guys to praise the almighty Terrifying Sewer Worm
 
2004-05-08 10:13:42 PM
On the topic on bagging on Mormon garment underwear and other religious attire. Why do jews wear those little hats? What's with the giant phallic pope hat? What's with that white collar dealy christian preachers a'la Reverend Lovejoy wear?
 
2004-05-08 10:14:02 PM
Koowan66, the world would be a slightly quieter place if everyone admitted that atheism is almost as crazy as religion. Everybody I know is crazy. Believing in God or spaceships or the United Robotic Socialist Republic doesn't make people any more or less crazy than they already are.
 
2004-05-08 10:16:22 PM
"Koowan66, it's a major fallacy that Mormons think that all Native Americans are actually Jews. The Book of Mormon tells of a small group in an isolated area whose population never rose above about three million. Before the Spanish introduced plagues that killed 90% of the native population, there were about 300 million Native Americans. The argument is not insane, and the evidence is there. I believe it and am not an idiot, you don't have to believe it and still be a good person, it's as simple as that."

Complete and utter nonsense. The REALITY is that when the Mormon church was founded in the early 19th century, westerners where just beginning to "discover" several lost civilizations such as the Maya. It was widely believed among the generally racist, white populace at the time that the "savages" that exist there today could not possibly have been the descendants of the monument builders. This attitude shouldn't be surprising for a culture that still had legalized slavery. In any case, this racist mythology became the basis of the entire Mormon archaeology. As sanitized as it is today, its roots are not based on evidence, they are based on the racist thinking of white yahoos in the 19th century.
 
2004-05-08 10:19:19 PM




 
2004-05-08 10:21:20 PM
Denizen:
"Koowan66, the world would be a slightly quieter place if everyone admitted that atheism is almost as crazy as religion..."

Really? Four Crusades, 9-11, Suicide Bombers and Joseph Smith are sane? True that everyone is crazy, but when you put on intellectual blinders like Christianity or Islam or Scientology, you are then following someone else's craziness (and 10,000,000 crazy people with the same idea are a helluva lot more dangerous than one), and it costs you money.
 
2004-05-08 10:21:59 PM
Scattershot:

I appreciate your level of understanding of Buddhism; perhaps I wasn't giving the person who made the analysis enough credit, I concede.

And another thing... don't lecture me on Buddhism, young (wo)man. Check my profile. ;)
 
2004-05-08 10:23:14 PM
majorhopper, the U.S. also spawned the Jehovah's Witnesses. Mustn't forget them. The Born Again Christians may actually be home-grown American as well, not sure. They sure didn't play a role in European history like most older Christian sects have.

I don't know about you, but I can make almost anything sound ridiculous if I want to. You know the Catholics believe in and practice an abstract form of ritualized cannibalsim? You know the Jews actually think that it's against the commandments to drive a car on Saturday because it involves combustion?

Mormons just believe in loving your family and not cheating your neighbor. We do some stuff that looks pretty ridiculous, but we're not the only people who believe in sacred clothing or rituals that may help bring you closer to a state of oneness with God.

I don't understand where all the hostility comes in, though you do appear to be paraphrasing that one South Park episode that ends with the kids feeling immature because of how they treated the Mormon kid.
 
2004-05-08 10:23:35 PM
Complete and utter nonsense. The REALITY is that when the Mormon church was founded in the early 19th century, westerners where just beginning to "discover" several lost civilizations such as the Maya. It was widely believed among the generally racist, white populace at the time that the "savages" that exist there today could not possibly have been the descendants of the monument builders. This attitude shouldn't be surprising for a culture that still had legalized slavery. In any case, this racist mythology became the basis of the entire Mormon archaeology. As sanitized as it is today, its roots are not based on evidence, they are based on the racist thinking of white yahoos in the 19th century.


Then why does the religion place these "savages" on such pedestals, if the belief at the time was to tear them down by the rascist yahoos like you said?

 
2004-05-08 10:24:16 PM


Mer-man?

/nuttin'
 
2004-05-08 10:25:04 PM
Oy vey, that Joseph Smith was such a putz.

/Native American
 
2004-05-08 10:27:34 PM
Mary Tyler Mormon
 
2004-05-08 10:28:56 PM
Koowan66, the LDS Church was anti-slavery. Joseph Smith was assassinated in part because of his intention to give major support to the same anti-slavery movement that Abraham Lincoln was a part of. Yeah, Lincoln was a racist too.

The Mormons, unlike everyone else, DID believe that the Native Americans built those old monuments. What we DON'T believe, and what I just told you, is that they were built by some other, "superior" race. Your argument doesn't hold water.
 
2004-05-08 10:30:05 PM
Denizen,
I believe in loving my family (one wife at a time) and not cheating my neighbor (but those freaks two streets over in Princeton Hills are fair game!) and I am an atheist. I hate that term too btw. I get labelled something because I refuse to sign on to anything else.

And as far as Jehova's Witnesses go, they still use The Bible, with some parts "translated" differently. They didn't invent their religion and their scripture out of whole cloth the way Hubbard and Smith did.
 
2004-05-08 10:30:33 PM
Arrr, I'm done for tonight. I've got church in the morning.

Happy Mothers' Day, you guys.
 
2004-05-08 10:31:25 PM
 
2004-05-08 10:36:06 PM
"Koowan66, the world would be a slightly quieter place if everyone admitted that atheism is almost as crazy as religion."

Are you assuming I am an atheist? Sorry, wrong answer.

I don't know if you are Christian, but it's funny how often Christians ignore the hundreds of millions of Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists and other non-christian religions and assume all non-Christians must be atheists. You can sum that argument up as "There are two religions -- mine and all the wrong ones."

In defense of the atheists though, I have to say that the idea that all there is amounts to what exists physically, is a nearly indestructible argument since there has NEVER, EVER been any evidence that there IS anything else. The ball then rests in the court of the theists to show by way of evidence that there IS a supernatural world out there, but they have never accomplished this by anything except assuming it. In that case, I'd have to side with the people who attribute physical things to physical causes, not to spooks, spirits and magic pixies. It seems to me that the saner argument is that which uses what can actually be observed, not a magic world which is conveniently impossible to detect.

In other words, I'll drop a nice, big, steel hammer on the foot of a Christian who is praying really hard that it won't hurt. Anyone want to take bets on the outcome?
 
2004-05-08 10:37:16 PM
Ahhhh, darnit! this is the last one, I swear.

majorhopper

1. Polygamy was outlawed by the church over a hundred years ago. We do enough other crazy stuff that you might as well drop that one and pick up something else.

2. Mormonism is officially classified as a restorationist sect, similar to but predating the Jehovah's Witnesses. "We believe the bible to be the word of God, as far as it is translated correctly." - Joseph Smith Jr., Articles of Faith (first half of #8, if you want to know). It wasn't made from whole cloth, it's a restoration of original practices and beliefs. There's not much that we do that you can't find in the Bible somewhere. We use the Bible more than we do the Book of Mormon.

3. I'd have an easier time respecting L. Ron Hubbard's contributions to religion if I hadn't ever seen or read Battlefield: Earth.

4. I wish the Raelians would be in the news more often.
 
2004-05-08 10:38:06 PM
There's a whole slew of people who deconstruct Buffy to read all sorts of things into it - feminist and gay themes, spirituality, morality etc. They're probably all right to an extent, Joss Whedon and his writers seem to borrow pretty liberally from all kinds of sources and traditions.

This case is staggeringly superifical by comparison - sort of like a youth pastor who runs a skatepark and says "Jesus is totally radical, man!"

This part rings true though: "At first I thought, 'I can't watch any TV show with a name like Buffy the Vampire Slayer,' " Riess said this week. "Then I started to notice that the dialogue was really clever, with all sorts of allusions to classical literature, Shakespeare and Greek myths in a richly layered text. I was hooked." - I know so many people who still refuse to believe the show was any good, solely based on the title.
 
2004-05-08 10:39:43 PM
Complete and utter nonsense. The REALITY is that when the Mormon church was founded in the early 19th century, westerners where just beginning to "discover" several lost civilizations such as the Maya. It was widely believed among the generally racist, white populace at the time that the "savages" that exist there today could not possibly have been the descendants of the monument builders. This attitude shouldn't be surprising for a culture that still had legalized slavery. In any case, this racist mythology became the basis of the entire Mormon archaeology. As sanitized as it is today, its roots are not based on evidence, they are based on the racist thinking of white yahoos in the 19th century.


Then why does the religion place these "savages" on such pedestals, if the belief at the time was to tear them down by the rascist yahoos like you said?"

You're forgetting that Mormons believe there was a tribe of Hebrews AND the current natives in the Americas and that the Hebrews were wiped out. Unfortunately, ZERO evidence exists to support this idea.
 
2004-05-08 10:42:18 PM
2004-05-08 10:03:05 PM dervish16108
I want to see Eliza Dushku in Mormon magic underwear.

Not exactly a show stopper. They cover far more than a bikini ever would.
 
2004-05-08 10:42:27 PM
Sorry, Koowan66, but I meet a whole lot more atheists (like majorhopper, for instance) than I do Hindus, Buddhists, or Muslims. I don't actually follow the Christian mindset that "it's us vs. all the wrong folks" so I should make more of an effort to keep from sounding that way. Out of curiosity, what do you believe in?
 
2004-05-08 10:45:10 PM
You're forgetting that Mormons believe there was a tribe of Hebrews AND the current natives in the Americas and that the Hebrews were wiped out. Unfortunately, ZERO evidence exists to support this idea.


Right, if I follow your arguement correctly(your grammar's all over the place). A tribe of from the house of Israel(not necesarilly jewish, Judah was one of the 12 tribes though) came here and they were wiped out. Nowhere is it said that all Native Americans were descended from them. Nor is it said all Native Americans were wiped out as well. Just that particular tribe, known in the Book of Mormon as Nephites. There is also zero evidence to prove that this too is wrong however.

 
2004-05-08 10:45:20 PM
Denizen,

1 - Speeding is "officially" outlawed.

2 - Restorationist Sect? Ok. The fact remains that Mormonism is based on a man digging up a brand new message from God. It was no mere re-translation of the Christian Nicea bible.

3 - I only watched fifteen minutes of that film before I decided I had better things to do: like belt-sanding my ball sack.

4 - I have no idea what that means.
 
2004-05-08 10:46:54 PM
Denizen
Here in the Bay Area you run into a ton of agnostics. A little less hostile than atheists, but still pretty anti - any organized religion.
 
2004-05-08 10:47:23 PM
No Such Agency, I'm one of those people. I've been force-fed Buffy and Angel by well meaning friends who seem to think that because I enjoy vampire stuff that I'd have to love Buffy.

Yeah the name is a huge turnoff. I could go into lots of reasons why I think instead of Buffy, there should have been Anita Blake (a kickass vampire huntress who wears sensible shoes when hunting and can still look hot). Maybe it was the California fakey-ness of it...maybe it was the fact that Angel's fake Irish accent made my ancestors roll in their graves and his 'poor pitiful me' crap reminded me of another vampire striving to do 'right' and regain his soul.

From what I saw, Whedon and his writers took from traditions, but it was just a taste...and sometimes the taste was utterly mistaken in one way or another.
 
2004-05-08 10:49:35 PM
Ah BtVS - one of the best shows on TV...until season 7.

I don't watch TV really, and I got hooked on the show after clicking in to see Alyson Hannigan's hottness.

Then Whedon ran out of ideas before he ran out of seasons. Really too bad. I have trouble watchingeven the earlier episodes again anymore the last season was so bad.
 
2004-05-08 10:50:53 PM
joe_mama
"Denizen
Here in the Bay Area you run into a ton of agnostics. A little less hostile than atheists, but still pretty anti - any organized religion."

Atheists are hostile? My atheist club goes out on "Agnostic Stomps" all the time, but they started it. Cmon. Don't talk about hostility when you are talking about religous organizations and beliefs that mobilize people to make war on "the others".

I got your hostility right here in my pants buddy.
 
2004-05-08 10:55:01 PM
"You're forgetting that Mormons believe there was a tribe of Hebrews AND the current natives in the Americas and that the Hebrews were wiped out. Unfortunately, ZERO evidence exists to support this idea.


Right, if I follow your arguement correctly(your grammar's all over the place). A tribe of from the house of Israel(not necesarilly jewish, Judah was one of the 12 tribes though) came here and they were wiped out. Nowhere is it said that all Native Americans were descended from them. Nor is it said all Native Americans were wiped out as well. Just that particular tribe, known in the Book of Mormon as Nephites. There is also zero evidence to prove that this too is wrong however."

You just keep telling yourself that. There isn't a single drop of evidence that ANY Israelite tribe ever existed in the Americas. Non, nada, zero. Of course, a church so desperate to believe such nonsense has no trouble accepting fraudulent evidence anyway, so why bother? Remember all those fake documents the LDS church bought a few years ago that all turned out to be forgeries? That's hardly the first example of how easily duped the church is when it comes to evidence and, of course, it won't be the last. There's one born every minute...
 
2004-05-08 10:55:05 PM
Denizen,

1 - Speeding is "officially" outlawed.

2 - Restorationist Sect? Ok. The fact remains that Mormonism is based on a man digging up a brand new message from God. It was no mere re-translation of the Christian Nicea bible.

3 - I only watched fifteen minutes of that film before I decided I had better things to do: like belt-sanding my ball sack.

4 - I have no idea what that means.

1- Zuh?
2 - Well to be fair, the man that translated the Book of Mormon back into Egyptian(from which the BoM was translated by Joseph Smith) was convinced from sentence structure and prose that this hick farmboy couldn't have made it up.
3 - Yeah Battlefield Earth was pretty bad. Check out Battlestar Galactica if you want a Mormon sci-fi fix.
4 - Raelians are this cult that believe that God is an alien, and Christ was resurrected using cloning techniques. They believe cloning is the road to immortality, are building a spaceship etc. They were in the news about a year ago with unsubstantiated claims that they'd cloned the first baby.
 
2004-05-08 10:58:58 PM
Buffy rules. I thought it was garbage too (though the movie was a guilty pleasure of a stupid movie), but then I watched the show and now I have all the seasons on DVD.

That said, what's this about magical underwear?
 
2004-05-08 11:00:21 PM
joe_mama,

2 - "The Man"? Did this man have a name (I hear The Kurgen right now saying "I know his name".) Why would he translate Heiroglyphics "back into" Egyptian? What have other Egyptologists said about the plates? Are they available for scholarly research, or are they hidden and kept away from the public like Daddy's porno stash, lest the whole image crash down.
 
2004-05-08 11:02:18 PM
thanks, you reminded me. Its about time again to belt-sand my ballsack.
 
2004-05-08 11:03:56 PM
You just keep telling yourself that. There isn't a single drop of evidence that ANY Israelite tribe ever existed in the Americas.

No prob. You keep on believing whatever it is you believe in. Yes there isn't a whole lot of quantitative evidence that could be related to you that has been done in any official capacity. Suffice it to say my faith isn't based solely on slim archeological evidence that's been done in N. America. My personal belief is that more is sitting in Central and South America where there is evidence of great civilizations that once existed that corresponded with Book of Mormon timelines. And very little archeological work has been done(esp in S America). Yeah hte wild goose chases and phony evidence that they went after here in N America is pretty embarrassing and not very productive.
 
2004-05-08 11:09:20 PM
From the Book Of Morman:

2 Nephi 5:21 says,

"And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, and they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."
 
2004-05-08 11:09:34 PM
2 - "The Man"? Did this man have a name (I hear The Kurgen right now saying "I know his name".) Why would he translate Heiroglyphics "back into" Egyptian?
Sorry, I got nothing off the top of my head. Well, the plates were translated into English and have in recent times been translated into many different world languages. Egyptian being one of them. After they were translated they were put back where they were dug up.
 
2004-05-08 11:09:57 PM
SenorWeird;

Thats the underwear mormons wear. They tried to sell it on ebay once, but the LDS church got very angry and unleashed the dogs of war (lawyers). Yet I could sell yamakas, priest collars, muslim skullcaps, buddhist robes, and hindu dhotis without getting into trouble.
 
2004-05-08 11:09:57 PM
Koowan66

If you want to learn a little more about Mormon theology, debates, evidences, etc, read up a little first. Not to be rude, but it's glaringly obvious you know little about the Mormon church.

The church's official website: http://www.lds.org, or http://www.mormon.org.

A good site explaining pro-Mormon arguments as well as evidences http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/index.html

A good site for anti-Mormon arguments http://www.exmormon.org or http://www.utlm.org

There are literally thousands of books written for and against the Mormon church. For every argument, it seems the other side has an argument back. Of course while the Mormon church's position is that conversion should be a spiritual and not an argumentative one, it's always good to have studied a religion before instantly denouncing it.

Unfortunately, I also have to take off, so I can't make any more replies for a while.
 
2004-05-08 11:10:27 PM
majorhopper
What about the bible and god cursing Cain?
 
2004-05-08 11:11:25 PM
majorhopper

It's Mormon, not Morman
 
2004-05-08 11:11:57 PM
I want to be Morman.. That way I can be GOD because only Mormon's can become GODs..

What a deal. Can you imagine the fun you could have being morman...

Wow... being GOD... And all I have to to is wear a white shirt, a black tie and ride a 10 speed..

Cool
 
2004-05-08 11:13:42 PM
MORON.... Oh MORMON....

I get those confused
 
2004-05-08 11:17:24 PM
helix400
Yeah no kidding, that's it for me. Too many damn arguements in either direction, for any religion for that matter.
 
2004-05-08 11:17:56 PM
Ok, using the Bible to defend the Book of Mormon to me is like winning a Scrabble tournament at a home for the mentally retarded. Mysoginism and Racism are clearly encouraged by both books.

The bible also said not to covet thy neighbors ass, and I challenge Jeebus himself to come down here and watch the hottie next door wash her car without having to "go to the restroom".
 
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