The 1st she marred and seperated from. Then she moved out of state and got married to another guy and had a kid.

It all gets weird from there. But in the end the house was on fire and he was on his way to jail..

But I am sure she had her magic pants on the whole time..

PillsburyFroBoy

Hot women can have as many guys as they want. It's like a law of the jungle. Saw it many times in college.

[the four am thing was to my rambling aobut buddhism; I'll email you later today or tommorow, mbrother.]

And ringwraith; the same reason as everyhting else: 'cuz.'

you make somehting out of nothing, then try to tell me otherwise.

SadMan#9, where do you live where it is 4AM? Only 1AM here. Fly west, young man!

Especially hot chicks that sweat gravy. mmmm mmmm.

culbeda Just for the sake of providing counter arguments, here you go.

The coins are referenced in the texts, but not have been found. No, the Book of Mormon doesn't mention coins at all. It metions a system of weights that can be used for currency though, but definitely different from coins. (The measurements do match up nicely with ancient Babylonian weighting systems). This is the only chapter that discusses the weights in detail http://scriptures.lds.org/alma/11

Joseph Smith was convicted of con artistry using his "magic stone". No he wasn't, he wasn't convicted of anything. His enemies sure brought him to court many many times on trumped up charges, but there was no convictions.

These scrolls were later PROVEN BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT to have been "translated" from Egyptian scrolls detailing pagan rituals for the after-life What!? No. Not at all. The issue is far from settled,current evidence narrows down some explanations, but many other explanations are still plausible. It's far from proven. http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_Abraham.shtml#source.

I can't believe you brought up the Kinderhook plates...that argument is so old and useless. A full answer is here http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_BMProblems.shtml#fooled To sum up, some guy make fake plates, and claimed Joseph Smith translated them as ancient records. Well, if Joseph fell for his trap in 1843, why did he wait 36 years to announce it? Why did he wait until after the deaths of the other 8 men he claimed to work with on the Kinderhook hoax? The guy made up the story, waited until all the other witnesses were long dead, and then came out and said he fooled Joseph Smith long ago.

I don't have time to deal with all the others. Just a sample. Seriously, if you spent "3 years" researching it, and you're "truths" have so many holes and misconceptions, I would guess that you did do any balanced research.

2004-05-09 03:16:03 AM PillsburyFroBoy

... But hey she is still mormon. She has 2 husbands ...
Damn, I thought only the men could have multiple spouses...

Funny thing, before 1890, when the LDS church officially eneded the practice of polygymy, it was only the men who could have multiple wives. Not the wives have multiple husbands.

iamjacksprostate

I am what you would consider a fundamentalist.

1 God. The only way to HIM is through Jesus Christ (God Made Flesh.)

This by definition makes me a Christian by faith.

Am I baptist, catholic, or any other??? No

sadman#9
and as soon as you make life out of pimordial goo, you let us know.

Trogdor, I see that you're from Austin. Got my PhD in Austin, BS in Houston. You're making me think of chicken-friend steak, covered in gravy, from Dirty's. Why is it, at 1+AM, I now get more excited for gravy than cheerleaders nad hot chicks???

iamjacksprostate

She is only a mormon by calling. She tried to leave the church once.

Her family turned their backs on her and the friends left her. She was completely alone. That is how she got in to that mess in the first place.

That planet Kolob thing is overblown. I've been a Mormon(not a good Mormon) for 24 years now, and I have NEVER heard of the whole Kolob shiat until about 4 months ago. Although I stopped going to church at around age 13, and I am a badass motherfarkin alcoholic. And I smoke, drink coffee, and enjoy porn. But I hold a high regard for the LDS teachings, most of them anyways. It's the people I don't like, well most of them. So it's not like we all pray to Kolob or something. At least not anyone I know.

The mudslinging continues. ringwraith JW's believe in 3 Gods, distinct and seperate. So does the Mormon church. The rest of Christianity is split regarding the Trinity. Some Christians believe they are 3 seperate people, others believe in the "three in one" doctrine.

As for the man becoming God that you mentioned. It's LDS church doctrine that God has a physical body (and was thus a man), but no official church doctrine states that we may become gods (yes, you'll find lots of speculation, but it's not church doctrine).

you mean at one time cheerleaders did it for ya? I have ALWAYS been a gravy man, myself. or west to Llano for some coopers BBQ. mmmm mmmm coopers.

Mr. Man

Since you are not welcome in the temple and you are not allow to marry in an LDS church do you really consider yourself a mormon?

ringwraith

Her family turned their backs on her and the friends left her. She was completely alone.

Yeah, leaving Mormonism can be pretty sucky as far as that goes... but you find out who your real friends are.

/technical mormon

Mr. E. Man,

im in the same boat brotha.

PillsburyFroBoy

Yeah but you would think your family would stick by you. But nope. Mother, Father, Brothers and Sisters all bailed on her.. Every single on of them.

Similar boat to Mr. E. Man and iamjacksprostate, only I find most of the people tolerable, and the doctrine amusing.

For what its worth, I'm pretty sure I agree mostly with the rest of you about Mormon culture, and how messed up it can be. Many Mormons can be pretty intolerant back to those who don't share their beleifs. Many are not open to alternative views that go against the grain (not a doctrinal grain, just cultural. And boy, if you go against a doctrinal grain, many people flip out). And many haven't had a chance to see the real world, so they live in a bubble, innocent of the crazy world around them.

I'm not saying all Mormons are this way, but too many of us are, and we're rightly criticized for it.

Trogdor, in Austin for BBQ my first choice was Houston's (the baby back ribs). Second and third were the Salt Lick (all you can eat, out of town a little ways) and the County Line.

Where I live now I don't have many options...enjoy it while you can!

ringwraith,

i really hate to push the issue, but, why do you hold such ill feelings towards mormons and their funny underwear?

I just want to know where your coming from.

mbrother: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. Moving to NY soon though, thank god.

Trogdor: didn't they almost do that some time ago, though? simulating early earth conditions, proteins started to form... they killed the project. .. Yes, I know it's not the same thing, but that's closer than your challenge, isn't it?


And for more 4am philosophy; what about the guys that say hell is simply the absence of god? Then, isn't it possible that the world was already here, possibly in some dreamer's head, and along came this Yaweh guy, and decided to give those who believe in him eternal bliss? similar for mr. kolob? Why the hell no?

Discuss, and point out my flawed hypnago-logic!

mbrother
oh and I do... all 500#'s of me gets out for some BBQ as often as I can. I dont see me leaving austin for a while, so I shall feed at the slop bucket while it lasts. and on a side note, go mormons. back to utah

LDS system is the vampire

"Hell is the Absence of God" is the title of an award-winning story by Ted Chiang, FYI.

And SadMan#9, I'm not the biggest fan of NY (not a big city guy overall, although I travel a lot), but haven't been to Rio. What's so awful about Rio?

iamjacksprostate

Please do not mistake my contempt for the Mormon undergarments as such. It is not that at all. I hold the entire Mormon Faith in contempt. Any CULT that leads away the souls of GODs children in to the fiery hell that is mormonism will find nothing but contempt from me.

funny underwear are funny because they are funny.

i don't think mormon faith is any more wacky then any other that people follow. when you get right down to it, they are building on some downright wacky stuff to begin with.

as i said earlier, the same people that would speak in tongues and flail around on the floor 'possessed' by the lord...will point and laugh at mormons. its not something i really understand (the concept of religious superiority complex) but its ever present. the same folks who think eating a cracker and having a glass of wine some how fills them w/ the lord....will think a mormon a loon because of their thoughts.

i dunno...having intentionally exposed myself to as much religion as i could get my hands on... i will say this much: mormons, more then any other major religion hold true to their faith on a higher average then any other i've come acrost in this country. that, and the hot chicks...how can i complain?

take a stroll thru SLC some sunday afternoon after the Tab lets out...its damn near freaky how happy those people are. i'm a 6'4", long haired hippy freakazoid, and quite used to people avoiding eye contact, or giving sideward looks of disapproval. i don't know if it was an attack of alien body pod dwellers, or if those folks were just all full up w/ the lord from their weekly churchification, but walking down a city street and having every person you cross make eye contact and say 'hello' is an interesting concept to say the least. fark it, if it makes them happy....who cares.

The only thing i can offer sandman is this.

Hell = No God.

God = there must be a heaven, or at least the equivelent

In most cases of there being a heaven, then ther must me a hell.

but No God = No heaven = No Hell = Paradox

/mmmmm paradoxes... someone pass the butter.
//God, i need a drink...

sadman
I hadnt heard of the experiment, but am curious to the contol situations. If we are saying before life of protiens and SCO's {single cell orgs} there was nothing, then I am saying get a petrie dish, fill it full of dirt, nuke it for about a year, place it in a sterile environment, and see how long it takes for protiens to form. Cuz remember, there was nothing first. you have got to start with a sterile environment and make something happen, and I will wait in my padded corner for someone to call me.

2004-05-09 03:40:26 AM ringwraith


iamjacksprostate

Please do not mistake my contempt for the Mormon undergarments as such. It is not that at all. I hold the entire Mormon Faith in contempt. Any CULT that leads away the souls of GODs children in to the fiery hell that is mormonism will find nothing but contempt from me.


Yeah, i figured it went beyond the underwear thing... once again... why so bitter towards the LDS faith as a whole?

heap take a stroll thru SLC some sunday afternoon after the Tab lets out...its damn near freaky how happy those people are. i'm a 6'4", long haired hippy freakazoid, and quite used to people avoiding eye contact, or giving sideward looks of disapproval.

I'm laughing my head off picturing this. Especially if you said "hello" to a group of really nice old ladies. Maybe if you were 5'10" it wouldn't be so bad? =)

Ah, fark, didnt read your whole post ringwraith, no further questions your honor.

[for the record, I don't actually believe anything much; I just don't have anyhting much better to do at the moment.]

heh, Rio isn't so bad, I guess, I just didn't do very well here for a number of reasons. A fresh start the hell away from most of the people I know would be nice. And I've been to NY a couple of times and absolutely love it. I like the thought of buying from amazon and not having to pay 50% import tarrifs. [which is why I'll probably wait till I'm there to buy your book, heh.]

Because Christians are losing this battle to Cults like the LDS, JW's and so on. If in my lifetime I make only a small dent in these cults then I can stand before GOD a champion. But I will not be silent and stand by while the boy and girls peddle around neighborhoods selling the lie that is mormonism.

Earl Shives paints a car for $99.95. And yeah it looks good for a while but underneath it all it is still a piece of crap.

Trogdor, in SadMan#9's defense, yes there have been the kind of experiments he describes starting in the 1950s (Urey I think is the name). It is pretty easy to make many types of amino acids from the kind of environment present in the early Earth (reducing atmosphere, etc.). Complex proteins and DNA/RNA are more complicated, and have not been spontaneously created in a laboratory setting, but then again no one has been running an experiment for millions of years.

This shouldn't become an evolution/creation debate (they're not debates usually anyway). The experiments are suggestive. Also suggestive is evidence that aminos acids and even perhaps viruses may be formed in space and fall to Earth. Conclusive? Not exactly, not yet. Ridiculous as some creationists espouse? No. But most of those people need to have it all happen in 6000 years, so whatever...

Either way, it isn't as much fun as a trip to the Salt Lick.

ringwraith If you are afraid of people not joining the correct faith, then why not encourage people to be more spiritual, closer to God, and pray more often? A more saintly person should move closer to the truth than by any other method.

I mean, at least 95% of the world isn't humble enough to consider that their faith could be flat out wrong and they need to do something about it. So why not encourage them to become humble?

helix400

it ran the gamut, man... from clusters of purse clatching blue hairs, to the black-slacks-white-shirt-one-color-tie blonde guys with crew cuts and name tags. damned near every person i walked past made eye contact and said hello to me. i was half expecting a flying saucer to land in the reflecting pool next to the Tab, and start beaming them aboard.

iamjacksprostate
why so bitter towards the LDS faith as a whole?


while not directed at me, what the hell. i'll try to answer. in my experience... a lot of the time, people are particularly bitter towards mormons because they present an easy target. they are juuuuuust different enough to appear non christian, but juuuuuust similar enough to get on people's nerves. rarely will you hear a protestant speak of a catholic in terms of 'leading people away from heaven'...but there are big gaping differences between the practices and structure of those two sections of christianity.

honestly, i think the reason the mormons get the shiat they do...is on account of their recent appearance on the scene. think about it... if there were 100 year old accounts of the big missing section of jesus's life, it would open up just as many questions/biases.

for those christians who decry the mormons as 'leading away from god'...consider thats why the jews had a problem with jesus.

heap Ooooh, they said hello to you. I thought you were trying to look scary and then said "hello" to them. Darn, it's not as amusing now.

helix400 --

-- If no faith is correct, and there is no god, or some weird aliens from Venus ore elsewhere running the show, then all that spirituality and praying is a waste of time that could be spent actually helping people or at least having a good time.

It isn't necessarily "Pick your religion," since it could also be "Pick religion or not religion." I think your premise is flawed.

Heap

Yes te Jews did have the same problem with Jesus but then again I don't see any record of Joesph Smith resurecting himself. And I dont recall and prephetic scripture refering to his arrival.

but then again I could be wrong. Joseph Smith could be a god. And this infact could be his planet that he created. And I am actually not me but I am actually only a dream of me thinking I am me on someone elses planet.

Yeah...


Dont drink the Bong water... bong water bad!!!

The Donger needs sleep!

ringwraith

well...yah kinda hit on something there, but i doubt you'd admit it.

you accept that someone died, then was brought back to life...with no proof of this other then what is in your holy book. the jews at the time of jesus's life obviously didn't accept him as what was prophesied...or i doubt he would have met the end he did. you accept this...yet find others to be wrong...with no proof other then what you already believe.

if there was one thing i could remove from western religion...the concept of 'for me to be right, you have to be wrong'.

Well just so you fellas know where im coming from:

My dad converted from baptist to mormonism to marry my mother, his parents werent to thrilled about it especially after being taught all of the stuff that Ringwraith posted with all of the links. True he was a little zealous with his new found faith and who could blame him, it was him against the world.

I was the first born and most of the beggining of my life I was deprived of seeing my father since he was called to serve a calling as a bishop. A very time consuming position in the church. he held that calling for several years, so im a little bitter at a church that places so much emphasis on family togetgherness, but i never grew up knowing my father.

After a while i began to notice that a minority of the followers of our ward (similar to congregation) tended to be overly passionete (sp?) about church fellowshiping. IE. cramming ideas down others throats. Unfortunatly this minority and the biggest impact on outsiders views. funny how that happens.

So my lack of enthusiasm towards being the ideal mormon is just a distaste of all religon comes from the fact that people arguing over what they choose to believe in "and you cant take that away from me no matter what" just makes me go a big rubbery one.

/steps off soap box.

This thread got much more boring once everyone stopped talking about magical underwear and started being all half-assed politically correct. So now I'm going to bed 'cos it's 4am. But I won't be wearing magical underwear. If I die in my sleep tonight, y'all will know why.

mbrother If no faith is correct, and there is no god, or some weird aliens from Venus ore elsewhere running the show, then all that spirituality and praying is a waste of time that could be spent actually helping people or at least having a good time.

It isn't necessarily "Pick your religion," since it could also be "Pick religion or not religion." I think your premise is flawed.

Excellent point. No, seriously. I always ponder the same thing all the time. Well, not exactly aliens from Venus, but along the same lines.

What if one church was right. What if all were right, and the liberal Unitarians figured that out? What if none are correct and we can't find detailed answers? Or if there's no god at all.

This is why I always encourage a tolerant view of other religions, as well as personal spirituality. First, it's it's important that everyone have their own desires to find answers about the supernatural, God, etc. To do that, the best source of knowledge is God himself (if he, or many of them, exist). By living what you honestly think is an honest life, and by asking God himself questions, you should get closer to the truth, if there is some truth to get. If God didn't exist, then perhaps lots of praying and going to church would have no effect. If you do notice a nice cause and effect relationship with prayers and what you ask for, then you can gain some faith or knowledge of God's existence move on from there getting more answers every day.

Personally, I believe that's all that God requires. Taking it one step at a time, progressing slowly. None of this "join this faith now or burn forever, whether your ready or not" business. It's also why I think heavy doctrine discussions are worthless. Why discuss nit picky doctrine if few of us (including myself), don't even have the basics down?

Anyways, back to what your saying...the questions you ask are excellent ones to ask ourselves. And the way I see it, since they're perhaps more fundamental than anything else, we should seek to answer those questions first. (And my belief is that God wants it that way too).

pmegan said "But I won't be wearing magical underwear."

So everyone is hoping you're not wearing underwear at all, and now, fark it, WE'LL all have trouble sleeping...

My kind of Mormon woman.

How did that Jeff Goldblum line go:

"...So, God creates dinosuars,
God destroys dinosuars,
God creates man.
Man destroys God.
Man creates dinosuars
Dinosuars eat man..."

Man, if only we could destroy god, and a what a much better world we would have. Dinosaurs and all.

And helix400, before I head off to bed...for real this time...

There are a number of religions that claim that asking those questions, leading a good life and looking for answers, is not enough, and will leave you burning for eternity. They insist you do X, Y, and Z or suffer. And some other region insists on A, B, and C, and not X, Y, or Z (at least not on certain dates).

My personal opinion is that most organized religion with these sorts of stupid rules (and I hold the god of these religions with really stupid rules in contempt usually) are self-selecting. That is, if you confront a bunch of people with: "Do X, Y, and Z or suffer forever," many will do it just to hedge their bets even if they don't really believe it. There's no integrity there, and I rate integrity highly. My god, if I really believed in one, would value integrity and not care if I spent 1/7 of my time dancing about in worship.