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(Salon)   Trump voters who thought he would bring back those jobs shocked to learn said jobs don't exist anymore   (salon.com ) divider line
    More: Awkward, Joseph Schumpeter, basic income, universal basic income, Capitalism, Working class, American manufacturing, creative destruction, Dystopia  
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3182 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Jan 2017 at 9:04 AM (5 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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5 days ago  
Because he hasn't brought them back yet. Duh.
 
5 days ago  
I forsee a government warehouse full of buggy whips and AOL floppy disks.
 
5 days ago  
But don't let a blue state, educated liberal elite tell them that.
 
5 days ago  
Unfortunately for America's struggling working class, the majority of manufacturing jobs that have disappeared over the past few decades are never coming back, for one simple reason: They no longer exist.

My old Zenith television set disagrees. There are a lot of things still being made by factory workers around the world that USED to be made here.
 
5 days ago  
not a problem.  his new secretary of education will see that the public school system insures that students get the  education to work in a technical world.
 
5 days ago  
To be fair, he has actually created five jobs. They're all for his kids, but, hey, it's a start.
 
5 days ago  

jso2897: To be fair, he has actually created five jobs. They're all for his kids, but, hey, it's a start.


Five handjobs, maybe.
 
5 days ago  
It'll trickle down soon enough:

img.fark.net
 
5 days ago  

NutWrench: Unfortunately for America's struggling working class, the majority of manufacturing jobs that have disappeared over the past few decades are never coming back, for one simple reason: They no longer exist.

My old Zenith television set disagrees. There are a lot of things still being made by factory workers around the world that USED to be made here.


And most of them will be made here again - but not by human hands.
 
5 days ago  
Who though?
 
5 days ago  

Mad_Radhu: It'll trickle down soon enough:

[img.fark.net image 300x390]


🎶
Haters wanna hate
Lovers wanna love
I don't even want
None of the above
🎶
 
5 days ago  
You mean he isn't going to force steel companies to rehire workers for a plant they demolished fifteen years ago?
 
5 days ago  
It is, of course, much easier to scapegoat foreigners and immigrants than to blame robots.

Let's not give Trump ideas here, okay?  I don't want to live through the Butlerian Jihad.
 
5 days ago  
 I never thought I'd say we live in a "post-fact" world, but here we are. Those voters will continue to believe those jobs do exist and their strongman will wrestle them from the evil globalists. Who happen to be liberals. Because reasons.
 
5 days ago  
[myshockedfaceletmeshowyouit]


idiots.  But when those millions of jobs don't come back by say, May 2017, it's going to be "thanks Obama" all over again.

I really need to finish digging my cave.
 
5 days ago  
Trump just has to tell his supporters that they have jobs and they'll believe him. Problem solved.
 
5 days ago  
Universal Income is probably going to happen or we are going to have mass starvation.

However, since the current so-called Conservative "philosophy" is about "deserving" people, get ready for a whinefest as you have never heard it before.  Get ready for constant bombardment about how the rich are the only people who work so they deserve what they have.  Get ready for even LESS care about human life than the conservatives already have.
 
5 days ago  

dickfreckle: I never thought I'd say we live in a "post-fact" world, but here we are. Those voters will continue to believe those jobs do exist and their strongman will wrestle them from the evil globalists. Who happen to be liberals. Because reasons.


We don't live in a post-fact world, but Trump has convinced people of that like he has convinced them of so many other things.  Facts are going to catch up with you, whether is ocean eventually covering your beach front property or your inability to breathe when you walk outside because of pollution.
 
5 days ago  

d23: Get ready for even LESS care about human life than the conservatives already have.


Oh, conservatives have already demonstrated remarkably well how little regard they have for human lives.

At this point, nothing that happens after January 20 will surprise me.  NOTHING

Farking dumpster fire could be live on tv ass farking heroin hookers while they piss on his balls, and the idiots who voted for him WILL EAT IT UP.

farkING IDIOTS, ALL OF THEM
 
5 days ago  
I thought "centralized economic planning" was communism, and bad.
Many "conservatives" have told me so.
I guess it's okay when the centralized economic planning is going on in the head or a cranked up senile shiatgibbon.
 
5 days ago  

kevlar51: But don't let a blue state, educated liberal elite tell them that.


img.fark.netyah..what them libuerul hippy knows
 
5 days ago  
I plan to get a job selling Old Glory robot insurance, because as a senior citizen I'm fully aware of the threat that robots pose.  That's +1 job.
 
5 days ago  

Karac: It is, of course, much easier to scapegoat foreigners and immigrants than to blame robots.

Let's not give Trump ideas here, okay?  I don't want to live through the Butlerian Jihad.


Why not? Once we fix out schools, think of all the mentat positions that will be opening up!
 
5 days ago  
What people want to know is 'what kind of job can I get?' once their anchor factory leaves the area. Town after town in this country are husks of what they once were because of offshoring or automation. After years of platitudes from politicians, they want *something*. Yes, they used the voting booth as an anger management tool, but let's be honest. They don't see a hopeful future. It's gone. And no one is helping them or their communities. So yes, they do cling to god, guns and anger. This taints their voting and they end up voting for the Party of Big Business. I mean if this party works for them, why can't it work for the small town?

So the question is- if these towns are dying and people aren't willing or able to migrate away, what then? I promise all of you that if they had a good job, many of these communities wouldn't be deep red.

Yes, I know the GOP has killed any attempts to help them. But if you live in town 'X', has either party told them what they'd do to return it to a healthy community?
 
5 days ago  

NutWrench: Unfortunately for America's struggling working class, the majority of manufacturing jobs that have disappeared over the past few decades are never coming back, for one simple reason: They no longer exist.

My old Zenith television set disagrees. There are a lot of things still being made by factory workers around the world that USED to be made here.


Even Foxconn, one of the largest employers in the world and one of the largest electronics manufacturing companies, is anticipating phasing out up to 1/3rd of its workforce in favor of automation in the coming years.

The manufacturing jobs aren't going to be there anymore, whether in the US or in Asia.
 
5 days ago  

tbhouston: kevlar51: But don't let a blue state, educated liberal elite tell them that.

[img.fark.net image 300x241]yah..what them libuerul hippy knows


There is a real sense of 'you think you are better than us' from those smaller communities. And when that attitude is pervasive, they'll stand there in front of you and tell you to take your facts and shove them up your ass. They'll double down.

We are on the same side, we just can't see past pride and ego. Yes, that may mean we have to learn to communicate with each other better. It may mean swallowing some pride to reach out. One side will push the other away until they see benefit in it.
 
5 days ago  
I'm not worry... My typewriter maintenance skills will be in great demand once Trump takes over the WH.
 
5 days ago  

tbhouston: kevlar51: But don't let a blue state, educated liberal elite tell them that.

[img.fark.net image 300x241]yah..what them libuerul hippy knows


"The Framers created the Electoral College specifically to ensure that 1/3 of red wouldn't be disenfranchised!"
...among other stupid things I've heard.
 
5 days ago  

d23: dickfreckle: I never thought I'd say we live in a "post-fact" world, but here we are. Those voters will continue to believe those jobs do exist and their strongman will wrestle them from the evil globalists. Who happen to be liberals. Because reasons.

We don't live in a post-fact world, but Trump has convinced people of that like he has convinced them of so many other things.  Facts are going to catch up with you, whether is ocean eventually covering your beach front property or your inability to breathe when you walk outside because of pollution.



This.  Even Trump is going to be held to his promises by lots of his supporters.  The #NeverHillarys will peel off, then the people who believed the Drain The Swamp lie, etc etc all the way down to the Wall and the Muslim ban.  Maybe a couple of hardcore wackos will hang on, but I can see actual Republicans start to flee when they realize the damage he's doing to the party.

I mean, he's not arresting Hillary right at the inauguration, is he?  Another lie.

He's a one termer at best.  If he faces massive civil unrest it's less.  The smarter people at the top of the Republican party are looking at how to KEEP power so if Republican candidates take serious losses in 2 years, they'll abandon him en masse.   It's about continuance of power and if he threatens that he's done.
 
5 days ago  
The article makes a good point about the fact that automation is only going to increase from now on.  It is pretty basic, the way that automation reduced the need for labor in farming and manufacturing, it will reduce the need to labor in all other fields of labor.  "White collar" jobs will be disappearing soon.  It won't be that long until the number of jobs available in total will be dwarfed by the pool of available labor.  The only way to avoid wide spread civil unrest at that point will be to provide a universal basic income and have tight population controls.  This is the inevitable result of our current economic system.
 
5 days ago  

webron: The article makes a good point about the fact that automation is only going to increase from now on.  It is pretty basic, the way that automation reduced the need for labor in farming and manufacturing, it will reduce the need to labor in all other fields of labor.  "White collar" jobs will be disappearing soon.  It won't be that long until the number of jobs available in total will be dwarfed by the pool of available labor.  The only way to avoid wide spread civil unrest at that point will be to provide a universal basic income and have tight population controls.  This is the inevitable result of our current economic system.


That or an open rejection of automation.

If we can start getting our asses into space and exploring, we may have a way to siphon off some of the earth's population.
 
5 days ago  

jethroe: d23: dickfreckle: I never thought I'd say we live in a "post-fact" world, but here we are. Those voters will continue to believe those jobs do exist and their strongman will wrestle them from the evil globalists. Who happen to be liberals. Because reasons.

We don't live in a post-fact world, but Trump has convinced people of that like he has convinced them of so many other things.  Facts are going to catch up with you, whether is ocean eventually covering your beach front property or your inability to breathe when you walk outside because of pollution.


This.  Even Trump is going to be held to his promises by lots of his supporters.  The #NeverHillarys will peel off, then the people who believed the Drain The Swamp lie, etc etc all the way down to the Wall and the Muslim ban.  Maybe a couple of hardcore wackos will hang on, but I can see actual Republicans start to flee when they realize the damage he's doing to the party.

I mean, he's not arresting Hillary right at the inauguration, is he?  Another lie.

He's a one termer at best.  If he faces massive civil unrest it's less.  The smarter people at the top of the Republican party are looking at how to KEEP power so if Republican candidates take serious losses in 2 years, they'll abandon him en masse.   It's about continuance of power and if he threatens that he's done.


Donald Trump is planning on keeping his campaign active and accepting donations between Inauguration and 2020. If Democrats want to defeat him, they're going to have to amass funds now as well.
 
5 days ago  
But this may not be the case, as new technologies - e.g., robotics, computerization and artificial intelligence (A.I.) - are fundamentally different from past technologies, with the potential to emulate human labor itself, thus making human workers and their human flaws obsolete.

That's not a new feature that only arrived with robotics and computerization.  Say you want to build a pyramid or a canal across Panama.  Not too long ago those were jobs that required rounding up enough people, shovels, and ropes to brute force the project.  Even a hundred years ago you could have replaced most of those workers with cranes or backhoes.
 
5 days ago  

jso2897: I thought "centralized economic planning" was communism, and bad.
Many "conservatives" have told me so.
I guess it's okay when the centralized economic planning is going on in the head or a cranked up senile shiatgibbon.


Nothing is bad when it's a conservative doing it.
 
5 days ago  

Nadie_AZ: That or an open rejection of automation.

If we can start getting our asses into space and exploring, we may have a way to siphon off some of the earth's population.


I was thinking about space exploration and exploitation of resources.  I would expect that automation will be the norm, given the hazardous conditions in space.  Radiation, micro-gravity, and the sheer amount of time it will take to get anywhere given the distances involved.  Maybe there would be a few humans involved, but I would not expect it to change the underlying problems.
 
5 days ago  
Everything is going automated and the jobs that remain require that you are able to read and do math to help maintain the machines. Coal mining for example isn't a guy swinging a pick and loading a cart, it is giant mining machines. More and more stuff that used to require a Human like cooking burgers no longer does. Increasing the demand for coal or burgers isn't going to open up low end jobs.
 
5 days ago  
If these people were any dumber, they'd be plants.
 
5 days ago  

RexTalionis: jethroe: d23: dickfreckle: I never thought I'd say we live in a "post-fact" world, but here we are. Those voters will continue to believe those jobs do exist and their strongman will wrestle them from the evil globalists. Who happen to be liberals. Because reasons.

We don't live in a post-fact world, but Trump has convinced people of that like he has convinced them of so many other things.  Facts are going to catch up with you, whether is ocean eventually covering your beach front property or your inability to breathe when you walk outside because of pollution.


This.  Even Trump is going to be held to his promises by lots of his supporters.  The #NeverHillarys will peel off, then the people who believed the Drain The Swamp lie, etc etc all the way down to the Wall and the Muslim ban.  Maybe a couple of hardcore wackos will hang on, but I can see actual Republicans start to flee when they realize the damage he's doing to the party.

I mean, he's not arresting Hillary right at the inauguration, is he?  Another lie.

He's a one termer at best.  If he faces massive civil unrest it's less.  The smarter people at the top of the Republican party are looking at how to KEEP power so if Republican candidates take serious losses in 2 years, they'll abandon him en masse.   It's about continuance of power and if he threatens that he's done.

Donald Trump is planning on keeping his campaign active and accepting donations between Inauguration and 2020. If Democrats want to defeat him, they're going to have to amass funds now as well.



The Dems should be focusing on getting money OUT of politics, like they ought to have been under Obama.  Democrats had a massive lead in campaign spending compared to Trump and they still lost.

Get 27$ Sanders-style donations so people actually are INVESTED and become less pro-corporate is what they need, not increased corporate donations.  Besides, corporate America will be all in for Trump.  He's a bonanza.  Look at the stock market.
 
5 days ago  

kevlar51: But don't let a blue state, educated liberal elite tell them that.


Yeah, I mean those of us who left the dead end towns out idiot parents lived in, got a college education, traveled across and out of the country, moved to where there are actually jobs - what do we know?


/ sarcasm
// I know sometimes it's hard to tell these days
 
5 days ago  

d23: Universal Income is probably going to happen or we are going to have mass starvation.

However, since the current so-called Conservative "philosophy" is about "deserving" people, get ready for a whinefest as you have never heard it before.  Get ready for constant bombardment about how the rich are the only people who work so they deserve what they have.  Get ready for even LESS care about human life than the conservatives already have.


This
 
5 days ago  
Won't matter, because it will still be the Democrats fault.
 
5 days ago  

webron: Nadie_AZ: That or an open rejection of automation.

If we can start getting our asses into space and exploring, we may have a way to siphon off some of the earth's population.

I was thinking about space exploration and exploitation of resources.  I would expect that automation will be the norm, given the hazardous conditions in space.  Radiation, micro-gravity, and the sheer amount of time it will take to get anywhere given the distances involved.  Maybe there would be a few humans involved, but I would not expect it to change the underlying problems.


I'd expect a huge war or some catastrophe will happen that'll lower the available employment pool of workers. Historically this has helped. With drones in the military, wars can go on indefinitely- or until resources are exhausted. Wait, this is the premise of Terminator, isn't it?
 
5 days ago  

Nadie_AZ: tbhouston: kevlar51: But don't let a blue state, educated liberal elite tell them that.

[img.fark.net image 300x241]yah..what them libuerul hippy knows

There is a real sense of 'you think you are better than us' from those smaller communities. And when that attitude is pervasive, they'll stand there in front of you and tell you to take your facts and shove them up your ass. They'll double down.

We are on the same side, we just can't see past pride and ego. Yes, that may mean we have to learn to communicate with each other better. It may mean swallowing some pride to reach out. One side will push the other away until they see benefit in it.


100%
 
5 days ago  

Nadie_AZ: What people want to know is 'what kind of job can I get?' once their anchor factory leaves the area. Town after town in this country are husks of what they once were because of offshoring or automation. After years of platitudes from politicians, they want *something*. Yes, they used the voting booth as an anger management tool, but let's be honest. They don't see a hopeful future. It's gone. And no one is helping them or their communities. So yes, they do cling to god, guns and anger. This taints their voting and they end up voting for the Party of Big Business. I mean if this party works for them, why can't it work for the small town?

So the question is- if these towns are dying and people aren't willing or able to migrate away, what then? I promise all of you that if they had a good job, many of these communities wouldn't be deep red.

Yes, I know the GOP has killed any attempts to help them. But if you live in town 'X', has either party told them what they'd do to return it to a healthy community?


Here's a thought - they could use the education they received growing up in a first world country, combined with some initiative, to create their own jobs. These people are always talking about pulling themselves up by the bootstraps - well, get to boot strapping. Boutique manufacturing is still doing quite well in this country - things like producing custom firearms, hunting and fishing equipment, motorsports custom equipment, custom furniture and home decor (just to name a few that people in the country would be familiar with). Hell, I'd be all about expanding SBA lending to provide these people with the resources they need to get started. Maybe coupled with a 6-month course in business management, passage of which gives you access to low-interest/high acceptance loans.

Or, you can stop intentionally handicapping the question by specifying "if they're unwilling to move". If they aren't willing to move to where the jobs are, how is that anyone else's problem or responsibility?
 
5 days ago  

NutWrench: Unfortunately for America's struggling working class, the majority of manufacturing jobs that have disappeared over the past few decades are never coming back, for one simple reason: They no longer exist.

My old Zenith television set disagrees. There are a lot of things still being made by factory workers around the world that USED to be made here.


The US still makes a lot of high tech and heavy machinery, steel, cars, airplanes, chemicals and fuels, etc. American manufacturing is very much alive, we're just doing the same amount of work with a tiny fraction of the number of people it used to take. The job where some guy runs a punch making soup cans? That job is gone and is never coming back and while there might be some oil jobs opening up as environmental regulations change and as the price of oil goes back up,  the mining jobs aren't coming back either(coal is no longer competitive).
 
5 days ago  

Rand Paul's Anus is Leaking: If these people were any dumber, they'd be plants.


These are issues that would be facing us regardless of who was elected.  The fact that Hillary failed to even address these economic concerns is a big part of why she lost.  I think Trump and the republican majority will be a terrible disaster for this country, and the world, but looking back, it is clear why Hillary lost.  She took for granted that she would win.  If she had fought for every state instead of just assuming that she would win, she would have.  It was a tortoise and the hare race.  Saying that Trump supporters are stupid is childish and counterproductive. If the democrats want to win, they will have to reach out to communities they have ignored and disparaged.  The republicans are not going to do anything about the fact that jobs are going to continue to disappear, even if they wanted to, but at least they are talking about it.
 
5 days ago  

Nadie_AZ: tbhouston: kevlar51: But don't let a blue state, educated liberal elite tell them that.

[img.fark.net image 300x241]yah..what them libuerul hippy knows

There is a real sense of 'you think you are better than us' from those smaller communities. And when that attitude is pervasive, they'll stand there in front of you and tell you to take your facts and shove them up your ass. They'll double down.

We are on the same side, we just can't see past pride and ego. Yes, that may mean we have to learn to communicate with each other better. It may mean swallowing some pride to reach out. One side will push the other away until they see benefit in it.


Have you tried dialoguing with Trump voters?

I can remember a thousand conversations about Obama, W, Iraq, etc.

When I got them to see reality and they seemed to genuinely accept it, without fail within three days they were back believing their bigoted nonsense.

This is because literally everyone is telling them Bullshiat lies.  It is part of their culture of authoritarian Christianity.  They turn on the tv and fox tells them what to think,  they turn in their radio abs rush tells them what to think.  They go to church get the same message from their pastor.  All their friends, all their co-workers all think the same way.

There is no dialogue and no compromise with these people.
 
5 days ago  

NutWrench: Unfortunately for America's struggling working class, the majority of manufacturing jobs that have disappeared over the past few decades are never coming back, for one simple reason: They no longer exist.

My old Zenith television set disagrees. There are a lot of things still being made by factory workers around the world that USED to be made here.



That's not the point. Were they to be manufactured here, they would be made by other machines. You'd bring back one or two management jobs and zero labor jobs.
 
5 days ago  

webron: Rand Paul's Anus is Leaking: If these people were any dumber, they'd be plants.

These are issues that would be facing us regardless of who was elected.  The fact that Hillary failed to even address these economic concerns is a big part of why she lost.  I think Trump and the republican majority will be a terrible disaster for this country, and the world, but looking back, it is clear why Hillary lost.  She took for granted that she would win.  If she had fought for every state instead of just assuming that she would win, she would have.  It was a tortoise and the hare race.  Saying that Trump supporters are stupid is childish and counterproductive. If the democrats want to win, they will have to reach out to communities they have ignored and disparaged.  The republicans are not going to do anything about the fact that jobs are going to continue to disappear, even if they wanted to, but at least they are talking about it.


See the post I made right after yours
 
5 days ago  

RexTalionis: Donald Trump is planning on keeping his campaign active and accepting donations between Inauguration and 2020. If Democrats want to defeat him, they're going to have to amass funds now as well.


He spent next to nothing and won this time.
Maybe next time he won't have billions in free, (mostly) positive air time?
We need candidates and a message.
 
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