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(Politico)   High-profile killings have made police officers' jobs harder   (politico.com ) divider line
    More: Sad, Police, law enforcement, police officers, percent, Pew Research survey, Sixty-eight percent, Matter protest movement, general public  
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5208 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Jan 2017 at 11:44 AM (8 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2017-01-11 11:50:52 AM  
35 votes:
I'm gonna stop you right in the 4th paragraph.

FTFA: Among those police officers surveyed, 86 percent told Pew that they believe the fatal incidents have made their jobs more difficult, while 93 percent say police are now more concerned about their safety as a result. Seventy-five percent said they believe that interactions between black residents and law enforcement have become more tense.

The risk is the job. That's the point. You take a risk - protect AND serve. That's where the whole problem started - cops became more concerned about their safety than doing their jobs.

Looks like it ain't changing anytime soon.
2017-01-11 10:59:04 AM  
35 votes:
img.fark.net

Stop murdering unarmed people, you sorry f*cks.
2017-01-11 10:49:35 AM  
32 votes:
Sucks having accountability.
2017-01-11 11:46:18 AM  
28 votes:
I too have a job that would be much easier if I could murder people without consequence, so I feel their pain.
2017-01-11 11:59:38 AM  
27 votes:
Aww! Poor little schnookums...

Ok, blatant murders aside (racist or not), you might consider that there could be other things making you and your LEO culture unpopular. Things like civil asset forfeiture, militarization of the police, 3am no knock raids for little/no reason (don't even mention wrong address), Us and Them mentality, LEOs with power trips/ego issues are some of them.

I've dealt with quite a few cops that were decent to me, more than were not, but those handful of assholes ruined it for everyone. Biggest problem is that good cops don't necessarily stop the farks, they usually protect them as brethren (see Us and Them).

So, the short of it is that yes, many people don't like you or your sheit. You started it, so don't start crying about how unfair things are. Live it from this side and you'd never stop crying.
Better yet; you broke it, you fix it...

/El WD nailed it with that gif
2017-01-11 10:24:01 AM  
21 votes:
the thin blue line is only effective because the population agrees with having it. like a redlight, everyone agrees to follow it. a redlight can't stop anyone from driving thru it.  Real Power is in the population, not the police and not the military. (and not the wealthy 1% either)
which is why i kinda prefer to live in a Democratic Republic.
2017-01-11 11:53:57 AM  
19 votes:
"A Pew Research survey of almost 8,000 police officers released Wednesday found that men and women in uniform have changed their approach to their jobs in response to the string of fatal encounters between black people and law enforcement. "

Is this supposed to be a bad thing?
2017-01-11 12:01:04 PM  
18 votes:

Clemkadidlefark: The shame is this issue cannot be addressed nor correctly diagnosed without running afoul of perceived racism by moderators.

I pray for our police, EMTs, firefighters and all emergency personnel .. they are the front line targets in a war to upend America, and that war cannot be discussed honestly


Literally nobody is stopping you from discussing it. If you can't do it without being a racist, you're probably not discussing it honestly.
2017-01-11 11:48:28 AM  
17 votes:
Crime rates are still way down, how much harder can their job be??
2017-01-11 10:29:17 AM  
15 votes:
Something that happens every week is an isolated incident?

I guess it doesn't matter if they think they're getting a raw deal, or thing it makes it hard to do their job by not killing people, as long as they stop.
2017-01-11 12:07:25 PM  
14 votes:

Clemkadidlefark: The shame is this issue cannot be addressed nor correctly diagnosed without running afoul of perceived racism by moderators.

I pray for our police, EMTs, firefighters and all emergency personnel .. they are the front line targets in a war to upend America, and that war cannot be discussed honestly


Hunh?  Not even close.  There are plenty of ways this can be discussed without even bringing race into the question- you want to discuss better use of body cameras, changes to stop&frisk laws or checkpoints, militarization of SWAT teams, drug law changes, community-based policing, etc?  Go for it.  All of these could have major effects on safety of both police and citizens and wouldn't even begin to touch on race.

If you want to cast it entirely as racial, that's your call.
2017-01-11 12:11:29 PM  
13 votes:

The more you eat the more you fart: Because the police are civilians too correct?


Police are civilians, much as they may like to pretend otherwise by dressing up as Navy SEALS.
2017-01-11 11:59:48 AM  
13 votes:

mrsleep: .001 of all arrests ends in a death, .0003 end in the death of a black person.

Not even enough to be considered statistically significant.

But hey, the criminals are getting what they want
"Seventy-six percent of those surveyed also say they are now more reluctant to use force when appropriate because of the attention to the incidents, while 72 percent said they are more reluctant to stop and question someone they believe seems suspicious."


The issue is they don't really have a handle on when force is appropriate and they think everyone is suspicious. They should be reluctant to stop and question citizens. I get that you like a police state because you think it won't touch you though.
2017-01-11 12:29:25 PM  
10 votes:

GanjSmokr: starsrift: I'm gonna stop you right in the 4th paragraph.

FTFA: Among those police officers surveyed, 86 percent told Pew that they believe the fatal incidents have made their jobs more difficult, while 93 percent say police are now more concerned about their safety as a result. Seventy-five percent said they believe that interactions between black residents and law enforcement have become more tense.

The risk is the job. That's the point. You take a risk - protect AND serve. That's where the whole problem started - cops became more concerned about their safety than doing their jobs.

Looks like it ain't changing anytime soon.

Well yea, it's scary fighting crime.  Best to hide somewhere and leave the crime fighting to the peasants.

http://nypost.com/2013/01/27/city-says-cops-had-no-duty-to-protect-sub​way-hero-who-subdued-killer/


That case is especially egregious. A hero stopped a knife wielding madman, and got stabbed repeatedly while doing it. Not only did the police who were specifically on the train looking for the killer hide while this went on, they only emerged from hiding when it was over.

Icing on the cake? The police took full credit for the capture, and were treated as heroes by the press, while the real hero was recovering in the hospital.
2017-01-11 11:54:51 AM  
10 votes:
.001 of all arrests ends in a death, .0003 end in the death of a black person.

Not even enough to be considered statistically significant.

But hey, the criminals are getting what they want
"Seventy-six percent of those surveyed also say they are now more reluctant to use force when appropriate because of the attention to the incidents, while 72 percent said they are more reluctant to stop and question someone they believe seems suspicious."

Ooo, yeah, bring up Micheal Brown, the gentle giant who got shot while fighting with a cop. If you still buy that malarkey, you should dig up the witness reports, hands up don't shoot was bullshiat.
2017-01-11 12:30:33 PM  
9 votes:

jshine: This text is now purple: jshine: ...but the police are also the only thing that stand between civilization and anarchy.

Which is why every time shiat has really hit the fan, the police have been the first ones out of town and soldiers have been called in to handle things?

If you're talking about the National Guard (the "militia"), then yes, in extreme circumstances (natural disasters, etc.) that exceed the capacity of the normal police force, they are called in to assist.  What's your point?  Are you saying that the National Guard is the body that's truly responsible for maintaining the rule of law?


Since when do cops maintain the rule of law?  They only enforce the laws, they don't ensure that no laws are broken.  See, freedom means that we have controlled anarchy.  You can do whatever the fark you want so long as nobody notices you broke the law.  The problem is that when cops break the law and people notice, other law enforcement entities either look the other way or work to protect the cops.
2017-01-11 12:11:12 PM  
9 votes:
Interesting how the small government conservatives are perfectly OK with agents of the state summarily killing citizens for minor offenses with no repercussions.

And by interesting I mean what the fark is wrong with them that they support those actions?
2017-01-11 12:04:05 PM  
9 votes:

ChipNASA: WTP 2: wait until the blacks find out that they are more likely to be killed by other blacks...what will they do then ??

[i.imgur.com image 260x194]


That's nice, but those "other blacks" aren't paid by the government to uphold the law, so nice try.
2017-01-11 12:55:03 PM  
8 votes:

jshine: ...but on the other hand, there is, I think, a minimal responsibility incumbent on all of us to recognize that most police officers are not monsters and just want to do their job, collect a paycheck, and maybe do some good along the way.  It's impossible to reach a favorable, mutual outcome if one side is completely determined to hate the other side.


There are numerous things that need to change about the way we police ourselves (community policing, less aggressive tactics, separation of financial incentives, better systems of performance evaluation) in order to make the agencies come into line with what a civilized society should expect, but there's only one way to restore public confidence in police forces in this country:

Stop hand-waving away misconduct, and start prosecuting every offense by police to the fullest extent of the law.  No more benefit of the doubt.  No more blue line.  Community and federal oversight, with real, serious consequences for officers who abuse authority, use excessive force, railroad people, or violate their rights, and a duty for officers to hold one another accountable for misconduct.  Even being impolite to non-aggressive suspects should come with repercussions and discipline for cops.  "Under color of authority" needs to be a serious intensifier that is liberally applied to minor crimes committed by police, and "accessory" for those police who see or know and do nothing.

We're way past the point where improving police behavior and reducing negative incidents alone is going to be effective.  Bad seeds need to be scared to ever join police forces in the first place, and the existing officers need to be able to police their own ranks without fear of ostracism.  It's the only way to fix things.

Service first.  Then comes respect.

/never gonna happen
2017-01-11 12:33:44 PM  
8 votes:

mrsleep: .001 of all arrests ends in a death, .0003 end in the death of a black person.

Not even enough to be considered statistically significant.

But hey, the criminals are getting what they want
"Seventy-six percent of those surveyed also say they are now more reluctant to use force when appropriate because of the attention to the incidents, while 72 percent said they are more reluctant to stop and question someone they believe seems suspicious."

Ooo, yeah, bring up Micheal Brown, the gentle giant who got shot while fighting with a cop. If you still buy that malarkey, you should dig up the witness reports, hands up don't shoot was bullshiat.


It's pretty easy to believe when yoi watch the video of the guy in Florida who was shot laying on the ground with his hands up while posing literally no threat to anyone.
2017-01-11 12:30:13 PM  
8 votes:
What, is the Obvious tag off somewhere getting beaten by a cop in riot gear?

Bertuccio: Something that happens every week is an isolated incident?

I guess it doesn't matter if they think they're getting a raw deal, or thing it makes it hard to do their job by not killing people, as long as they stop.


Week?  Try day.  We're 11 days in, and so far 30 Americans, tallied by name, have been killed by law enforcement.  The most egregious (in my opinion,) was on the 9th when a 2 year cop was speeding on the left side of a one way road in the wrong direction, no lights or sirens, and killed a woman.  The local chief says it might take 7 to 10 days to complete the accident report, at which time they'll hand it off to the prosecutor to begin the process of investigation.

http://www.wvgazettemail.com/news/20170109/woman-in-charleston-police​-​collision-dies-officers-name-released-

/Reserve deputy
//Really farking tired of other assholes wearing my uniform and the few of us who are legitimately good a bad name
2017-01-11 12:24:22 PM  
8 votes:

The more you eat the more you fart: ChipNASA: WTP 2: wait until the blacks find out that they are more likely to be killed by other blacks...what will they do then ??

[i.imgur.com image 260x194]

That's nice, but those "other blacks" aren't paid by the government to uphold the law, so nice try.


Well, that and the "other blacks" are arrested for murder, tried, convicted, and go to jail.
d23 [BareFark]
2017-01-11 12:14:42 PM  
8 votes:

mrsleep: Ooo, yeah, bring up Micheal Brown, the gentle giant who got shot while fighting with a cop. If you still buy that malarkey, you should dig up the witness reports, hands up don't shoot was bullshiat.


Oh yeah, cops are blameless.  Black people should be face down on the ground with their hands out in front of them and pissing their pants whenever they see a cop.  That assumption is what the bullshiat is.
2017-01-11 12:09:34 PM  
8 votes:

Percise1: Aww! Poor little schnookums...

Ok, blatant murders aside (racist or not), you might consider that there could be other things making you and your LEO culture unpopular. Things like civil asset forfeiture, militarization of the police, 3am no knock raids for little/no reason (don't even mention wrong address), Us and Them mentality, LEOs with power trips/ego issues are some of them.

I've dealt with quite a few cops that were decent to me, more than were not, but those handful of assholes ruined it for everyone. Biggest problem is that good cops don't necessarily stop the farks, they usually protect them as brethren (see Us and Them).

So, the short of it is that yes, many people don't like you or your sheit. You started it, so don't start crying about how unfair things are. Live it from this side and you'd never stop crying.
Better yet; you broke it, you fix it...

/El WD nailed it with that gif


Even police referring to people as civilians makes me shake my head.
2017-01-11 12:05:57 PM  
8 votes:
Translated:
"We hate how people are videotaping and exposing us on the job. Now people can see how we really treat people of color and the poor. It's ruining our plan."
2017-01-11 12:04:01 PM  
8 votes:
Decriminalize recreational drug use.  Put those dollars into hiring and training better law enforcement officers.  Problem solved.

/ a 0% failure rate is unrealistic.
2017-01-11 12:02:48 PM  
8 votes:
All I read was that the majority of cops are whiney bastards who don't like being accountable for their own actions, and therefore their deserved reputation.

Yeah...Having someone hold you accountable sucks.  Let me play this tiny violin for you.
2017-01-11 11:55:12 AM  
8 votes:
Huh. I can appreciate that this extra scrutiny would make it more difficult. Perhaps, I dunno, STOP murdering people? That might just help.

Not all cops are to blame. But the assholes who protect the ones that do aren't helping.
2017-01-11 11:55:04 AM  
8 votes:
So, basically, killer's remorse?

Lots of "our jobs are harder", very very little "maybe we shouldn't have done that".
2017-01-11 12:40:15 PM  
7 votes:
Maybe stop murdering people?

It isn't that hard, trust me. I've gone my entire life without murdering a single person and I've put zero effort into it. Stop whining about it.
2017-01-11 12:37:33 PM  
7 votes:

jshine: ...but on the other hand, there is, I think, a minimal responsibility incumbent on all of us to recognize that most police officers are not monsters and just want to do their job, collect a paycheck, and maybe do some good along the way.  It's impossible to reach a favorable, mutual outcome if one side is completely determined to hate the other side.


If person is a cop they know bad cops.  If they don't work to purge the force of bad cops, don't stand up and enforce the law when cops break the law, or actively cover for cops who break the law, then they are bad cops.

At this point there is no reason to assume that there are ANY good cops.  They're all corrupt in some way, shape, or form.  That's the perception based on the reality of how many bad cops there are.  Fix the perception or stop farking whining about the perception and resultant attitude.
2017-01-11 12:22:30 PM  
7 votes:

jshine: ...but the police are also the only thing that stand between civilization and anarchy.


Which is why every time shiat has really hit the fan, the police have been the first ones out of town and soldiers have been called in to handle things?
d23 [BareFark]
2017-01-11 12:17:56 PM  
7 votes:

ChuckRoddy: Bertuccio: Something that happens every week is an isolated incident?

I guess it doesn't matter if they think they're getting a raw deal, or thing it makes it hard to do their job by not killing people, as long as they stop.

Islamic terrorists attacks happen every day. Is it fair to paint all muslims as violent extremists?
Same with cops.
 Yet when we learn more info of these high profile killings we find out that it's never as simple as "guy got shot because he's black."


If it's fair to ask all Muslims "why don't you speak out and/or do something about this happening in your group" it's fair to ask police officers to do it as well.  It's sad that police rush to exonerate the people among them using too much violence rather than reflecting on the incident and trying to see what they could do better.   Not all cops are "bad cops" is very true, but the cops causing the problem are being protected by their fellow officers and the systems they have help set up.
2017-01-11 12:12:46 PM  
7 votes:

jshine: The more you eat the more you fart: Because the police are civilians too correct?

Police are civilians, much as they may like to pretend otherwise by dressing up as Navy SEALS.


I agree.  They need to stop giving cops military equipment so they can play GI Joes with people's lives.
2017-01-11 12:58:09 PM  
6 votes:

f29d6h: Wow the comment section of the actual article is horrible.... I'm disheartened to find even more of it here.
People really hate the cops now.  That's just too bad.


No it's not too bad, it's friggin' horrible.

Authoritarians though, will blame the populace and not the authorities they worship for this problem, and it will continue to exasperate itself.  Nobody trusts cops now, and they're right not to.  The police in my community are from out of town and they act like it.  It's become a predatory relationship where you can't trust them.

Lemme tell you a story... last year one of my relatives went into anaphylactic shock and we had to call 911.  An ambulance arrives along with a patrol car.  While we're all trying to maintain our composure as the medical responders worked on her, the cop stomped around our house on the hunt for "paraphernalia".  This continued even after the epipen worked and she was back on her feet heading out to the ambulance.

I actually had to tell him "ok we're all leaving now to head to the hospital, can you come on out so I can lock up?"  Not a word from this arse.  No eye contact, no acknowledgement of our existence other than as obstacles in his hunt for whatever possible contraband we may have had in our home in plain sight.

And I'm lilly white.  I can't even imagine how these interactions go in a black household.  Actually no wait I can, because they get reported on when someone in the house calls for a medical emergency and a dog or kid ends up getting gunned down for some bizarre reason.

But that's my fault, I guess I should be more understanding?
2017-01-11 12:35:50 PM  
6 votes:

jshine: On the one hand I agree: the police do have a lot of work to do, and they bear the majority of the responsibility for establishing and maintaining a good working relationship with their host community (and will bear the majority of the burden if they fail).

...but on the other hand, there is, I think, a minimal responsibility incumbent on all of us to recognize that most police officers are not monsters and just want to do their job, collect a paycheck, and maybe do some good along the way.  It's impossible to reach a favorable, mutual outcome if one side is completely determined to hate the other side.


Is it unreasonable to ask the normals to not cover for the monsters?

Because I'm left with one of two conclusions:
1. There are so many monsters that the normals are afraid to speak out.
2. The normals are unwilling to speak out.

In either case, the monsters win the day.
d23 [BareFark]
2017-01-11 12:32:39 PM  
6 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: And therein lies the problem. They're not OK with it in theory, but in practice they support cops 100% in every individual instance that it happens. I mean for fark's sake there are people who defend the cops who shot Tamir Rice. At some point there's no use trying to discuss specific instances because these douchebags will always find a reason why it was OK for an agent of the state to murder someone.


I have never seen a police killing no matter how outrageous the situation where someone hasn't defended the cop.  A cop could go up to a random person and shoot him in the head and some mental gymnast would come up with a justification.  That's what the problem is.  The frame of mind is different than mine.  Yes, people should submit to police authority when it is justified, but the responsibility is EQUAL to all people.  A black person doesn't have the responsibility to go above and beyond and in the cases of many people this is what they are asked to do.  Police should be able to protect themselves, but they need to be expected to be reasonable and you can't let the definition of "reasonable" include everything.  And when police break the law they need to be punished.
2017-01-11 12:22:04 PM  
6 votes:

ChuckRoddy: Bertuccio: Something that happens every week is an isolated incident?

I guess it doesn't matter if they think they're getting a raw deal, or thing it makes it hard to do their job by not killing people, as long as they stop.

Islamic terrorists attacks happen every day. Is it fair to paint all muslims as violent extremists?
Same with cops.
 Yet when we learn more info of these high profile killings we find out that it's never as simple as "guy got shot because he's black."


It's almost never simply. It's just that white people in similar circumstances are killed by police at a much lower rate. As a white person, I absolutely get the benefit of the doubt.
2017-01-11 12:15:53 PM  
6 votes:

The more you eat the more you fart: Russ1642: Percise1: Aww! Poor little schnookums...

Ok, blatant murders aside (racist or not), you might consider that there could be other things making you and your LEO culture unpopular. Things like civil asset forfeiture, militarization of the police, 3am no knock raids for little/no reason (don't even mention wrong address), Us and Them mentality, LEOs with power trips/ego issues are some of them.

I've dealt with quite a few cops that were decent to me, more than were not, but those handful of assholes ruined it for everyone. Biggest problem is that good cops don't necessarily stop the farks, they usually protect them as brethren (see Us and Them).

So, the short of it is that yes, many people don't like you or your sheit. You started it, so don't start crying about how unfair things are. Live it from this side and you'd never stop crying.
Better yet; you broke it, you fix it...

/El WD nailed it with that gif

Even police referring to people as civilians makes me shake my head.

Because the police are civilians too correct?


Perhaps we should start referring to them as "Civil Servants".  It is accurate, and would put things on a more civil basis when you are pulled over.

"Hello Civil Servant Thompson. I believe I was following all traffic laws. so how will you be helping me today?"
2017-01-11 11:48:52 AM  
6 votes:
What is this snowflakery?
2017-01-11 12:55:45 PM  
5 votes:
The real problem is that when a cop commits a crime (up to and including murder) they get off scott-free 99% of the time.

THAT'S why we don't trust them. They can do whatever they want, and the rest of the force will lie and cover-up to save them.

So, here's a solution: actually hold cops accountable for their actions, and maybe after a few decades we can get back to where we used to be.
2017-01-11 12:34:57 PM  
5 votes:

WTP 2: wait until the blacks find out that they are more likely to be killed by other blacks...what will they do then ??


Wait until some 'bagger tries to avoid the issue by changing the subject.  What will we do then?
2017-01-11 12:34:17 PM  
5 votes:

f29d6h: Wow the comment section of the actual article is horrible.... I'm disheartened to find even more of it here.

People really hate the cops now.  That's just too bad.


They earned their reputation.  Only they can fix it.
2017-01-11 12:30:00 PM  
5 votes:

jshine: This text is now purple: jshine: ...but the police are also the only thing that stand between civilization and anarchy.

Which is why every time shiat has really hit the fan, the police have been the first ones out of town and soldiers have been called in to handle things?

If you're talking about the National Guard (the "militia"), then yes, in extreme circumstances (natural disasters, etc.) that exceed the capacity of the normal police force, they are called in to assist.  What's your point?  Are you saying that the National Guard is the body that's truly responsible for maintaining the rule of law?


I'm saying the police aren't the only part of the line.

Because clearly this -- "but the police are also the only thing that stand between civilization and anarchy" -- isn't true.
2017-01-11 12:29:12 PM  
5 votes:
All cops are scumbags. Authoritarian assholes that get a hard-on when they assault or kill blacks and other minorities. I piss on cops.
2017-01-11 12:23:02 PM  
5 votes:

jshine: f29d6h: Wow the comment section of the actual article is horrible.... I'm disheartened to find even more of it here.

People really hate the cops now.  That's just too bad.

Indeed.  There are some bad cops who have done terrible things, and too often they do escape justice.  ...but the police are also the only thing that stand between civilization and anarchy.  Take away law enforcement altogether and we'd be living in something like Somalia, where it's every man for himself.

For better or worse, the police are a necessary element of society and they are here to stay.  Simply indulging in the Two Minutes Hate isn't going to solve anything.


The police have a perception problem and it's up to them to fix it.  If they want to be perceived the way they wish they were perceived they have to change their behavior and attitude.  Instead they want to do what they want to do while hiding behind the thin blue line and demanding that we love them for it for some reason.  Fix the attitude and the behavior on the cops' end and the perception will change, but it takes time and effort to do that.
2017-01-11 12:08:38 PM  
5 votes:
The important thing to understand about cops is that all they want is for every citizen to gush over what a great service they are doing for the public and how they respect everything the police does.
2017-01-11 12:03:13 PM  
5 votes:
If you want to be a cop there is something wrong with you and you should be eliminated for consideration, based on the fact you wanted be a cop.  And cops are basically criminals hiding behind a badge....so yeah.  go f yourself, cop.
2017-01-11 12:01:33 PM  
5 votes:

starsrift: I'm gonna stop you right in the 4th paragraph.

FTFA: Among those police officers surveyed, 86 percent told Pew that they believe the fatal incidents have made their jobs more difficult, while 93 percent say police are now more concerned about their safety as a result. Seventy-five percent said they believe that interactions between black residents and law enforcement have become more tense.

The risk is the job. That's the point. You take a risk - protect AND serve. That's where the whole problem started - cops became more concerned about their safety than doing their jobs.

Looks like it ain't changing anytime soon.


Well yea, it's scary fighting crime.  Best to hide somewhere and leave the crime fighting to the peasants.

http://nypost.com/2013/01/27/city-says-cops-had-no-duty-to-protect-su​b​way-hero-who-subdued-killer/
2017-01-11 11:55:12 AM  
5 votes:
wait until the blacks find out that they are more likely to be killed by other blacks...what will they do then ??
2017-01-11 01:12:50 PM  
4 votes:
I would like to see fatal shootings treated like fatal accidents.
-Run full toxicology screen on all the officers involved. Check for steroids and alcohol as well as the usual street drugs.
-All investigations are conducted by an external agency. The more independent, the better- up to and including starting a NTSB type agency for police shootings and misconduct. Never, Ever allow a department to "investigate" itself.
-Release all findings, including lessons learned and consider if there are changes that would prevent similar incidents in the future.
-If the findings warrant it, allow police to be prosecuted for criminal negligence. A truck driver can't drive through a playground in 2 seconds and excuse the resultant deaths because he was "in fear of his life". Similarly, a police officer should not be able to roll up a playground in seconds and shoot children dead using the same excuse.

Operating deadly equipment in public comes with risks - and obligations. It's shouldn't be controversial to hold a Police officer to the same professional standards as a commercial truck driver.
2017-01-11 01:01:03 PM  
4 votes:
Hobochili
It is a fairly dangerous occupation that has the risks of you getting shot, stabbed, run over, punched, and insulted.  All of which you accept when you sign up

It's not the most dangerous profession in America, but of the dangerous professions it's far and away the best compensated (with public recognition to boot)

People don't gush over what heroes roofers are, but we all have a shelter to live and work in thanks to them.
2017-01-11 12:50:21 PM  
4 votes:
They couldn't catch the guys who mugged me -- despite me giving them the phone numbers they dialed when they stole my phone.

They won't catch the person who cloned my credit card this Sunday and had a $100 pizza party on my account.

But they sure can write speeding tickets, you betcha.

/faith in cops just went to zero
2017-01-11 12:48:40 PM  
4 votes:

AeAe: A big reason why a lot of people have negative perceptions of cops is because they cover for the scumbags.


QFT.

Not all cops are actively bad - ie. murdering, stealing, framing people, etc.  But when you, as a "good" cop, don't do anything about the actively bad ones, you are, in effect, condoning those bad actions, and are now a "bad" cop AFAIC.

Police your own, and maybe people will stop assuming you are all bad.
2017-01-11 12:43:30 PM  
4 votes:

jshine: if people knew with certainty that there was no consequence for breaking the law, how many would obey it?  Are you really going to argue that people would obey the law in equal measure with or without the presence of law enforcement?


Well, let's look at the behavior of those for whom there is no consequence for breaking the law.  Cops are farking corrupt as hell, thieving and raping and murdering the people whom they are supposed to protect and serve.

If we don't enforce the law among the law enforcement agencies, then can we really call this a nation of laws?  What the fark good are your laws when only certain people have to abide by those laws and certain people are targeted by law enforcement whether or not they broke any laws?
2017-01-11 12:39:41 PM  
4 votes:

jshine: Okay, I'll grant that in the 0.01% of situations where the National Guard are required (e.g., Hurricanes, etc.), they do have a role to play too.  Along with the FBI, Federal Marshals, Secret Service, etc.  But these are corner cases, and still acting as "law enforcement" if not technically "police".


img.fark.net

Fundamentally, what stops society from collapsing into chaos is society itself. The police facilitate and centralize the process, but society can and has existed in the absence of a police force, and social uprisings have been ended by the efforts of other social actors.

Often it comes down to a simple stand where one refuses to let someone else burn their shiat down.
2017-01-11 12:38:11 PM  
4 votes:

IvanTheSilent: What, is the Obvious tag off somewhere getting beaten by a cop in riot gear?

Bertuccio: Something that happens every week is an isolated incident?

I guess it doesn't matter if they think they're getting a raw deal, or thing it makes it hard to do their job by not killing people, as long as they stop.

Week?  Try day.  We're 11 days in, and so far 30 Americans, tallied by name, have been killed by law enforcement.  The most egregious (in my opinion,) was on the 9th when a 2 year cop was speeding on the left side of a one way road in the wrong direction, no lights or sirens, and killed a woman.  The local chief says it might take 7 to 10 days to complete the accident report, at which time they'll hand it off to the prosecutor to begin the process of investigation.

http://www.wvgazettemail.com/news/20170109/woman-in-charleston-police-​collision-dies-officers-name-released-

/Reserve deputy
//Really farking tired of other assholes wearing my uniform and the few of us who are legitimately good a bad name


Thank you for being willing to call bad cops to account.  Truly, thank you. It takes courage and integrity most people lack.
2017-01-11 12:24:10 PM  
4 votes:

Zeb Hesselgresser: AdmirableSnackbar: Interesting how the A.) small government conservatives are perfectly OK with agents of the state summarily killing B.) citizens for minor offenses with no repercussions.

And by interesting I mean what the fark is wrong with them that they support those actions?

I suspect the population of A.) is roughly equal to the population of B.)

In other words, unless your straw man can type, you're going to be disappointed when you don't get an answer.


You seem to be able to type, so please, provide an answer. Why do you and your friends always end up siding with police when they shoot someone?
d23 [BareFark]
2017-01-11 12:19:23 PM  
4 votes:

f29d6h: Wow the comment section of the actual article is horrible.... I'm disheartened to find even more of it here.

People really hate the cops now.  That's just too bad.


I don't hate cops, but I also don't think they should be above the law.  They should have rules to follow like anyone else and when rules are broken there should be consequences.  That's not happening with ANY group that has power over us in the US right now.
2017-01-11 12:08:45 PM  
4 votes:

Bertuccio: Something that happens every week is an isolated incident?


If 52 people are killed each year (your 1 per week figure) in a country of 300,000,000+ people, then yes, those are still relatively isolated incidents.
2017-01-11 11:58:47 AM  
4 votes:
Why no want oversight? WHY?
2017-01-11 04:36:11 PM  
3 votes:
Not a cop.  I do not know the depths of beshiattery that comes of having to deal with humanity as a peoblem, every day.

Every time i hear about a fatal shooting, the excuse is always "The cop was afraid."  Then why the fark was that person a cop?  You are our shield, that is why your badge is shield shaped not gun shaped.  De-escalation techniques work.  Use them! Please!  That ought to be the FIRST move, not drawing a weapon and threatening.  For the love of
...why does this even need to be said?   People - citizens - shouldn't have to die because a cop was geeling insecure.  I don't want to pay toward the salary of someone with authority but no courage.  Yeah, I have high expectations from people who legally weild deadly force.
2017-01-11 03:32:09 PM  
3 votes:

IndyJohn: CivicMindedFive:

Wow.  Asking people to not attack a police officer and reach for his gun and following that charge back at the officer is a ever slightly so smaller ask than kiss the pavement and grovel.

You know how we can tell you are a racist asshat?  Because you act as if you know what actually happened.  Two people know what happened, and one is dead.  You're not an eyewitness so stop acting like one.


Forensics say 100% he was partially inside the car and was shot superficially while fighting for the gun.  They also say he was fatally shot on the front and his hands were not up.  Witnesses who were not his Robbery accomplice say he was charging the officer when shot.  I can say what happened with metaphysical certitude but I can say he did quite a bit more than meekly surrender.
2017-01-11 01:55:11 PM  
3 votes:

f29d6h: Wow the comment section of the actual article is horrible.... I'm disheartened to find even more of it here.

People really hate the cops now.  That's just too bad.


People don't hate cops. People hate bad cops. They hate the cops who protect the bad cops even more.
2017-01-11 01:18:57 PM  
3 votes:

almostsane: IvanTheSilent: What, is the Obvious tag off somewhere getting beaten by a cop in riot gear?

Bertuccio: Something that happens every week is an isolated incident?

I guess it doesn't matter if they think they're getting a raw deal, or thing it makes it hard to do their job by not killing people, as long as they stop.

Week?  Try day.  We're 11 days in, and so far 30 Americans, tallied by name, have been killed by law enforcement.  The most egregious (in my opinion,) was on the 9th when a 2 year cop was speeding on the left side of a one way road in the wrong direction, no lights or sirens, and killed a woman.  The local chief says it might take 7 to 10 days to complete the accident report, at which time they'll hand it off to the prosecutor to begin the process of investigation.

http://www.wvgazettemail.com/news/20170109/woman-in-charleston-police-​collision-dies-officers-name-released-

/Reserve deputy
//Really farking tired of other assholes wearing my uniform and the few of us who are legitimately good a bad name

No offense but WHY are you a deputy (reserve or otherwise)?  You're obviously a good guy and even acknowledge by your own statement above that good guys are in the minority:  you can't be popular with your fellow officers.


I can say with complete conviction that my entire department thinks this way.  We recognize that trust in our community makes our county safer.  Although a slim majority of deputies are veterans, we aren't militarized.  Unless you're SWAT, you're issued a shotgun instead of an AR.  We are quick to fire officers that don't meet our standards.  Get three complaints for conduct unbecoming (including simple things like using profanity) and you're out.  Hell, we even issue press releases giving our citizens the dates, times and locations of our DUI checkpoints, speed checks, and other community operations.

We're not heroes, nor are we some bastion of integrity and honor.  We're just people trying to do right by the citizens we're sworn to protect.  It's always the assholes who see themselves as the hero, the "thin blue line between order and anarchy" that do shiat that puts them in the news, and as I said before, I (and my teammates,) are tired as hell of being lumped in with them.
2017-01-11 01:14:41 PM  
3 votes:

jshine: This is simply inaccurate.  If you truly feel that it's realistic to conclude that "all cops" -- 100.00% -- are "scumbags" and "authoritarian assholes," etc., then we are simply too far apart to make further discussion productive.

Yes, some certainly have behaved this way.  They make the news and do exist, but AeAe's post goes far, far beyond that and his claim is not "grounded in reality."


You don't see this as the obverse of the "We are all brothers and sisters in blue" coin?

The police have chosen to pool their integrity as one body and have utterly failed to police their own. That body has become cancerous as a result.
2017-01-11 01:08:57 PM  
3 votes:

jshine: f29d6h: Wow the comment section of the actual article is horrible.... I'm disheartened to find even more of it here.

People really hate the cops now.  That's just too bad.

Indeed.  There are some bad cops who have done terrible things, and too often they do escape justice.  ...but the police are also the only thing that stand between civilization and anarchy.  Take away law enforcement altogether and we'd be living in something like Somalia, where it's every man for himself.

For better or worse, the police are a necessary element of society and they are here to stay.  Simply indulging in the Two Minutes Hate isn't going to solve anything.


Oh please.  Remember that the good cops don't hesitate to back up the bad ones, and will join every cop from 100 miles around to drive in a procession if that bad cop dies.

People will have contempt for the police as long as they act contemptibly.
2017-01-11 01:04:08 PM  
3 votes:
The not-black guy who murders several at the Fort Lauderdale airport goes to the ground and is taken into custody alive ... BUT the black guy who might have had a weapon (it was dark at the time) and who might have been reaching for it (or he might have been reaching for his wallet) gets blown away without hurting anyone.

Boo-hoo-hoo. Stop killing unarmed people, their pets, their children. I know you just want to get home safely, Mr. Policeman, but so does the schmuck you stopped.
2017-01-11 01:03:59 PM  
3 votes:
RJReves: I am going to say it.

Cop hatred is just racism turned sideways. Hating a "class of people" simply because they are in that class.


No, it's not:  people don't choose their race;  people choose to become cops and, unfortunately, the type of people who choose to become cops nowadays are overwhelmingly bullies and violent sociopaths. 

I find it much more satisfying to hate people on an individual basis.
That works too.
2017-01-11 01:00:31 PM  
3 votes:
A majority of police officers believe that recent deaths of black Americans at the hands of police are isolated incidents, they say that those high-profile killings have made their jobs more difficult, and they think that protesters are biased against law enforcement.
Isolated incidents citizen, move along!
More difficult in that you can't just apply force indiscriminately anymore?
Why are they biased? Is this coming from nowhere or is something happening that is causing this bias?

A Pew Research survey of almost 8,000 police officers released Wednesday found that men and women in uniform have changed their approach to their jobs in response to the string of fatal encounters between black people and law enforcement.
Officers should change their approach and maybe not apply indiscriminant force?
They also are much less likely than the general public to believe that those high-profile deaths, which have drawn attention to racism and spurred the Black Lives Matter protest movement, are signs of broader problems in the criminal justice system.
Then why the Fark are Black people protesting?
Why is a black man lying on the ground with his arms in the air getting shot by police? Oh I forgot, "Isolated Incidents".

Among those police officers surveyed, 86 percent told Pew that they believe the fatal incidents have made their jobs more difficult, while 93 percent say police are now more concerned about their safety as a result. Seventy-five percent said they believe that interactions between black residents and law enforcement have become more tense.
Made more difficult in that you can't apply force indiscriminately. Is the only way you can do your job is to assault everyone?
Your more concerned about your safety after people are learning about the systemic racism and assaults perpetrated?
Relations are more tense? I wonder why?

Seventy-six percent of those surveyed also say they are now more reluctant to use force when appropriate because of the attention to the incidents, while 72 percent said they are more reluctant to stop and question someone they believe seems suspicious.
More reluctant to use force? I guess indiscriminant force is frowned upon?
Are you stopping the person because black people are suspicious, or because they are doing something while black?Do you treat Blacks the same as Whites?

In addition to the change in behavior, the survey found that police officers doubt the intentions of the protesters who have led demonstrations in response to the killings. Sixty-eight percent of officers surveyed said protesters are "to a great extent" motivated by "anti-police bias," but just 10 percent view the demonstrators as "motivated by a genuine desire to hold police accountable for their actions," according to Pew.
STFU and get back in line Minorities!
Why in the hell is the "anti-Police bias" there to start with?Is it just a whole black thing that they distrust police or do they have a legitimate issue? And why the fark is it only isolated to Blacks?

Two-thirds, or 67 percent, of law enforcement officials surveyed also said they believe the deaths are isolated incidents, while 31 percent said they signal larger problems. Among the general public, those numbers are flipped: 39 percent say they are isolated events, compared to 60 percent who say they are signs of a broader problem.
"Isolated incidents"!See above
The Police have a different opinion than the general populace?  I wonder why?  Maybe they should start to listen and communicate with general populace rather than say "Move Along Citizen!"
2017-01-11 12:57:18 PM  
3 votes:

jshine: AdmirableSnackbar: jshine: ...but in this meandering thread about police generally, there's room to (legitimately) criticize both sides.

Agreed, we should criticize both the corrupt cops and the "clean" cops who look the other way or cover up the actions of the corrupt cops.

And the people who contribute gems like this:

AeAe: All cops are scumbags. Authoritarian assholes that get a hard-on when they assault or kill blacks and other minorities. I piss on cops.


AeAe is clearly emotional on the subject but his sentiment is understandable based on the behavioral pattern of police.  That's the perception of police based solely on the behavior of police.  Change the behavior and change the perception.  I understand you don't like that he said it, but you can't really criticize him for his sentiments because they are grounded in reality.
2017-01-11 12:40:41 PM  
3 votes:

RJReves: AeAe: All cops are scumbags. Authoritarian assholes that get a hard-on when they assault or kill blacks and other minorities. I piss on cops.

The vast majority of police officers are good people doing a very difficult and unappreciated job.


--
That may be, but when they cover for bad cops - those cops that abuse people and the system - are they still "good" cops? I say 'no'. A big reason why a lot of people have negative perceptions of cops is because they cover for the scumbags.
2017-01-11 12:40:34 PM  
3 votes:
I am going to say it.

Cop hatred is just racism turned sideways. Hating a "class of people" simply because they are in that class.

I find it much more satisfying to hate people on an individual basis.
2017-01-11 12:37:13 PM  
3 votes:

jshine: f29d6h: Wow the comment section of the actual article is horrible.... I'm disheartened to find even more of it here.

People really hate the cops now.  That's just too bad.

Indeed.  There are some bad cops who have done terrible things, and too often they do escape justice.  ...but the police are also the only thing that stand between civilization and anarchy.  Take away law enforcement altogether and we'd be living in something like Somalia, where it's every man for himself.

For better or worse, the police are a necessary element of society and they are here to stay.  Simply indulging in the Two Minutes Hate isn't going to solve anything.


The public's *trust* in the fair application of the institution of law is what keeps us from anarchy.  The police can't do shiat when they're outnumbered 300:1 if the trust in the institution of policing is broken down.
2017-01-11 12:31:18 PM  
3 votes:

Eli WhiskeyDik: [img.fark.net image 480x326]

Stop murdering unarmed people, you sorry f*cks.


Yeah, this.  All the way this.
2017-01-11 12:26:22 PM  
3 votes:

jshine: AdmirableSnackbar: jshine: AdmirableSnackbar: Interesting how the small government conservatives are perfectly OK with agents of the state summarily killing citizens for minor offenses with no repercussions.

And by interesting I mean what the fark is wrong with them that they support those actions?

Who here has argued that summary execution is acceptable?

Quite a few people.  Every time such an event happens we have multiple farkers supporting the actions of police.  They always have a reason that it was a "good shoot" of an unarmed, non-threating black...oh, there it is, I think we know the reason.

Is there anyone in this thread who has said that they are "OK with agents of the state summarily killing citizens for minor offenses with no repercussions" (or similar)?

One can argue about whether a specific incident was justified or not based on the available facts, and opinions on specific cases by rational people may naturally vary, but that's not the point I was responding to.


And therein lies the problem.  They're not OK with it in theory, but in practice they support cops 100% in every individual instance that it happens.  I mean for fark's sake there are people who defend the cops who shot Tamir Rice.  At some point there's no use trying to discuss specific instances because these douchebags will always find a reason why it was OK for an agent of the state to murder someone.
2017-01-11 12:00:00 PM  
3 votes:

WTP 2: wait until the blacks find out that they are more likely to be killed by other blacks...what will they do then ??


i.imgur.com
2017-01-11 11:59:49 AM  
3 votes:
Then quit and find a new job that is easier to cope with when you have an inferiority complex.
2017-01-11 11:59:09 AM  
3 votes:

HempHead: Crime rates are still way down, how much harder can their job be??


Harder to find someone for whom you can make up a plausible story for shooting.
2017-01-11 11:57:29 AM  
3 votes:
The shame is this issue cannot be addressed nor correctly diagnosed without running afoul of perceived racism by moderators.

I pray for our police, EMTs, firefighters and all emergency personnel .. they are the front line targets in a war to upend America, and that war cannot be discussed honestly
2017-01-11 05:48:20 PM  
2 votes:

IndyJohn: Mrbogey: IndyJohn: Mrbogey: IndyJohn: CivicMindedFive:

Casings generally fall fairly predictably based on pistol and shooter.

The DOJ disagrees with you:  "[S]hell casings provide limited evidentiary value relative to the precise location of the shooter and bullet trajectory because they tend to bounce and roll unpredictably after being ejected from the firearm and before coming to rest."

Step 1. Learn the definition of "limited".

Cases may roll and bounce when ejected but they'll land generally within feet of the same spot.

I never said they are completely without evidentiary value.

Also, I have shot guns plenty of times.  Your statement regarding consistency and predictability of where shell casings land may have *some* truth in a static situation, but even then you can get some crazy bounces.  When you are talking about a moving shooter in a dynamic situation, when the casings are falling on a hard surface which will cause them to bounce,  that results in even less certainty.

More important, the 10-feet number appears to be pulled out of someone's @$$.  Again, the DOJ report did not take a position on the relative positions of the two individuals.  There's lots of conflicting evidence in the case, and if someone takes Wilson's story as gospel truth and announces it as such, they are evidencing a lack of objectivity.


I don't know what to tell u but it comes from a wapo article citing doj and autopsies.  Verify it or not.  Nocurr anymore.
2017-01-11 05:34:01 PM  
2 votes:

Private_Citizen: Police kill around 928 people a year.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/04/police-killed-people-f​bi-data-justifiable-homicides

Based on that number, and the CDC death statistics:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr65/nvsr65_04.pdf

Let's put together a short list of
Things Less Deadly than the Police:

Salmonella -45
Shingles-8
Tuberculosis-493
Whopping cough-14
Syphilis-43
Lower respiratory infection-289
Acute Bronchitis-563
Appendicitis-387
Kidney infections-712
Accidental discharge of firearms-586

So, next time you encounter the police, remember to be careful- they can be Deadly!


So according to your numbers, police are about twenty two times deadlier than syphilis?

Can we cure cops?
2017-01-11 04:48:29 PM  
2 votes:

Aracnix: Yeah, I have high expectations from people who legally weild deadly force.


More and more in minority neighborhoods (and even some white neighborhoods) calling the police is something that initiates second and third and even fourth thoughts.
When people - citizens - actually have to weigh the present danger they may encounter against the possible danger that may come with a badge, even for a moment, something is seriously seriously wrong.
2017-01-11 03:44:16 PM  
2 votes:

Private_Citizen: Police kill around 928 people a year.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/04/police-killed-people-f​bi-data-justifiable-homicides

Based on that number, and the CDC death statistics:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr65/nvsr65_04.pdf

Let's put together a short list of
Things Less Deadly than the Police:

Salmonella -45
Shingles-8
Tuberculosis-493
Whopping cough-14
Syphilis-43
Lower respiratory infection-289
Acute Bronchitis-563
Appendicitis-387
Kidney infections-712
Accidental discharge of firearms-586

So, next time you encounter the police, remember to be careful- they can be Deadly!


Nice way to cherry pick the statistics to make your point.  Considering

Chronic Lower Respiratory Diseases killed 147,101
Accidents killed 136,053
Influenza and Pneumonia killed 55,227
Drug Induced Mortality killed 49,714
Chronic Liver Disease and Cirrhosis killed 38,170

So, according to the source you provided (very reliable,CDC) and simple math, police are responsible for 3.53332942433827e-4 percentage of deaths occurring in the 2014 statistical data set presented.

Next time you encounter life, remember to be careful-it can be Deadly!

Please keep in mind, I'm not saying it's not a valid issue, but picking and choosing the statistics you want to make your particular point is a poor way to debate issues.
2017-01-11 02:44:46 PM  
2 votes:
CivicMindedFive:

Wow.  Asking people to not attack a police officer and reach for his gun and following that charge back at the officer is a ever slightly so smaller ask than kiss the pavement and grovel.

You know how we can tell you are a racist asshat?  Because you act as if you know what actually happened.  Two people know what happened, and one is dead.  You're not an eyewitness so stop acting like one.
2017-01-11 02:21:42 PM  
2 votes:

Mrbogey: Which is why a teen trying to strongarm away a cop's gun in Ferguson became a high profile event rather than a "moron dies doing moronic thing" news story.


Straw the broke the camel's back.  When your city police are rampantly racist, and routinely violate the rights of the people they are sworn to protect, it doesn't take much to start a riot.  You going to defend the Furguson PD?  Because you're going to look pretty stupid doing so.
2017-01-11 02:08:28 PM  
2 votes:

Mrbogey: Almost nobody dies at the hands of cops for minor offenses. Trying to shoot a cop, beat him unconscious, or drive over them is not a "minor offense".


Nope. It is usually "failure to comply" or "resisting arrest". It is especially touching when some uppity negroe manages to commit "suicide" in their cell while being detained for some traffic violation, combined with the offences above. Nobody noticed anything your honour. Honest. We just found him/her like that. (wink). Or they kill some disabled or deaf guy that didn't understand or even hear the orders barked at him. I felt threatened your honour. (wink).

You may not believe me, but this BS isn't normal in a single other western country. Just doesn't happen.
2017-01-11 01:44:48 PM  
2 votes:

RJReves: I am going to say it.

Cop hatred is just racism turned sideways.


Cops can voluntarily take off their uniforms and quit being cops.
When are you going to volunteer to change the color of your skin?
2017-01-11 01:44:14 PM  
2 votes:

jshine: Context matters a lot where quotations are concerned.  ...and I maintain that blind hate of police is not productive, though I have no problem with expressing anger over specific incidents where the facts merit it.


Totally wasn't trying to take you out of context, just trying to keep the post clean and make it obvious where I was jumping in.

I get that you're trying to preach moderation, but don't fall into the trap of assuming that people expressing anger at broad aspects of police culture are doing so blindly.  There are a lot of valid things to hate about the way we police ourselves that are based on an amalgamation of events and circumstances.  Admitting that the problems are systemic and not situational is the first step away from being labeled an apologist.  I'm not saying you're an apologist, but the demand to treat every incident as isolated and individual is a common tactic used by them to avoid addressing the real issues.
2017-01-11 01:43:44 PM  
2 votes:

IvanTheSilent: almostsane: IvanTheSilent: What, is the Obvious tag off somewhere getting beaten by a cop in riot gear?

Bertuccio: Something that happens every week is an isolated incident?

I guess it doesn't matter if they think they're getting a raw deal, or thing it makes it hard to do their job by not killing people, as long as they stop.

Week?  Try day.  We're 11 days in, and so far 30 Americans, tallied by name, have been killed by law enforcement.  The most egregious (in my opinion,) was on the 9th when a 2 year cop was speeding on the left side of a one way road in the wrong direction, no lights or sirens, and killed a woman.  The local chief says it might take 7 to 10 days to complete the accident report, at which time they'll hand it off to the prosecutor to begin the process of investigation.

http://www.wvgazettemail.com/news/20170109/woman-in-charleston-police-​collision-dies-officers-name-released-

/Reserve deputy
//Really farking tired of other assholes wearing my uniform and the few of us who are legitimately good a bad name

No offense but WHY are you a deputy (reserve or otherwise)?  You're obviously a good guy and even acknowledge by your own statement above that good guys are in the minority:  you can't be popular with your fellow officers.

I can say with complete conviction that my entire department thinks this way.  We recognize that trust in our community makes our county safer.  Although a slim majority of deputies are veterans, we aren't militarized.  Unless you're SWAT, you're issued a shotgun instead of an AR.  We are quick to fire officers that don't meet our standards.  Get three complaints for conduct unbecoming (including simple things like using profanity) and you're out.  Hell, we even issue press releases giving our citizens the dates, times and locations of our DUI checkpoints, speed checks, and other community operations.

We're not heroes, nor are we some bastion of integrity and honor.  We're just people trying to do right by the citizens ...


I sincerely wish that more (heck, ALL) police departments operated like this:  we wouldn't be having this thread.
2017-01-11 01:42:38 PM  
2 votes:

WTP 2: wait until the blacks find out that they are more likely to be killed by other blacks...what will they do then ??


The same as when white people find out that they are more likely to be killed by other whites (84%).
They will see that neither statistic has f*ck all to do with cops killing black people, white people or anyone else who is unarmed.
2017-01-11 01:19:09 PM  
2 votes:

Private_Citizen: I would like to see fatal shootings treated like fatal accidents.
-Run full toxicology screen on all the officers involved. Check for steroids and alcohol as well as the usual street drugs.
-All investigations are conducted by an external agency. The more independent, the better- up to and including starting a NTSB type agency for police shootings and misconduct. Never, Ever allow a department to "investigate" itself.
-Release all findings, including lessons learned and consider if there are changes that would prevent similar incidents in the future.
-If the findings warrant it, allow police to be prosecuted for criminal negligence. A truck driver can't drive through a playground in 2 seconds and excuse the resultant deaths because he was "in fear of his life". Similarly, a police officer should not be able to roll up a playground in seconds and shoot children dead using the same excuse.

Operating deadly equipment in public comes with risks - and obligations. It's shouldn't be controversial to hold a Police officer to the same professional standards as a commercial truck driver.


i agree.
some police do drugs, which i have seen firsthand, and not just pot.
2017-01-11 01:08:21 PM  
2 votes:

jshine: It's not my intent to blindly white-knight the police, but on the other hand, threads like this tend to lack any moderating voice.  I could have come in and posted any hateful opinion of police and it would be completely accepted.  For that reason, IMHO, too many posters seem to gravitate toward the extreme position of all cops are evil and deserving of contempt.  But that is not accurate and it is not productive.


"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." - MLK

If you're looking to be a "moderate" voice on the subject of police corruption what you're really saying is that you accept it and other should, too.  If you don't want to be seen as being OK with police corruption then instead of only arguing against those complaining about police corruption you should be talking about how it's bad.  Talk about how you feel it's unacceptable more than you talk about how we should be less aggressive and angry in opposing it.

Otherwise you come across as white-knighting the police.
2017-01-11 01:03:01 PM  
2 votes:

mrsleep: .001 of all arrests ends in a death, .0003 end in the death of a black person.

Not even enough to be considered statistically significant.

But hey, the criminals are getting what they want
"Seventy-six percent of those surveyed also say they are now more reluctant to use force when appropriate because of the attention to the incidents, while 72 percent said they are more reluctant to stop and question someone they believe seems suspicious."

Ooo, yeah, bring up Micheal Brown, the gentle giant who got shot while fighting with a cop. If you still buy that malarkey, you should dig up the witness reports, hands up don't shoot was bullshiat.


Yes, deaths are rare.  BUT, they're just one outcome of a larger bad policing strategy.  All the unnecessary/excessive beatings, harassment, stops, no-knock radis, etc. are problems as well, and if obsessing about just the deaths causes a reduction in the rest of the bad cop stuff, I'm OK with that.
2017-01-11 01:00:04 PM  
2 votes:

RJReves: AeAe: All cops are scumbags. Authoritarian assholes that get a hard-on when they assault or kill blacks and other minorities. I piss on cops.

The vast majority of police officers are good people doing a very difficult and unappreciated job.


This would be true if and only if those good cops were free to intervene and arrest the bad apples on their forces.  But they're not.  Insular police culture and the blue wall of silence turns ALL of the good cops into bad cops.  Cops who don't toe the line are ostracized and fired.

2017-01-11 12:52:07 PM  
2 votes:

IndyJohn: Is this supposed to be a bad thing?


It doesn't say they've changed them for the better.  More importantly they're cops so the only thing their training tells them could possibly be the answer to any issue is to harden up and get more aggressive and violent.
2017-01-11 12:50:23 PM  
2 votes:

jshine: f29d6h: Wow the comment section of the actual article is horrible.... I'm disheartened to find even more of it here.

People really hate the cops now.  That's just too bad.

Indeed.  There are some bad cops who have done terrible things, and too often they do escape justice.  ...but the police are also the only thing that stand between civilization and anarchy.  Take away law enforcement altogether and we'd be living in something like Somalia, where it's every man for himself.

For better or worse, the police are a necessary element of society and they are here to stay.  Simply indulging in the Two Minutes Hate isn't going to solve anything.


Street gangs employed directly by the state are less than 200 years old...
2017-01-11 12:48:44 PM  
2 votes:

jshine: ...but in this meandering thread about police generally, there's room to (legitimately) criticize both sides.


Agreed, we should criticize both the corrupt cops and the "clean" cops who look the other way or cover up the actions of the corrupt cops.
2017-01-11 12:47:41 PM  
2 votes:

jshine: AdmirableSnackbar: jshine: if people knew with certainty that there was no consequence for breaking the law, how many would obey it?  Are you really going to argue that people would obey the law in equal measure with or without the presence of law enforcement?

Well, let's look at the behavior of those for whom there is no consequence for breaking the law.  Cops are farking corrupt as hell, thieving and raping and murdering the people whom they are supposed to protect and serve.

So you agree that absence of consequences leads to worse behavior then?


Yes, so I'm wondering why you're the only one ITT bringing up the idea of dismantling police entirely.  The rest of us are trying to demand accountability and rule of law among police officers and all you can do is concern troll away at our demands.
2017-01-11 12:45:45 PM  
2 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: jshine: if people knew with certainty that there was no consequence for breaking the law, how many would obey it?  Are you really going to argue that people would obey the law in equal measure with or without the presence of law enforcement?

Well, let's look at the behavior of those for whom there is no consequence for breaking the law.  Cops are farking corrupt as hell, thieving and raping and murdering the people whom they are supposed to protect and serve.


So you agree that absence of consequences leads to worse behavior then?
2017-01-11 12:44:27 PM  
2 votes:

This text is now purple: jshine: On the one hand I agree: the police do have a lot of work to do, and they bear the majority of the responsibility for establishing and maintaining a good working relationship with their host community (and will bear the majority of the burden if they fail).

...but on the other hand, there is, I think, a minimal responsibility incumbent on all of us to recognize that most police officers are not monsters and just want to do their job, collect a paycheck, and maybe do some good along the way.  It's impossible to reach a favorable, mutual outcome if one side is completely determined to hate the other side.

Is it unreasonable to ask the normals to not cover for the monsters?

Because I'm left with one of two conclusions:
1. There are so many monsters that the normals are afraid to speak out.
2. The normals are unwilling to speak out.

In either case, the monsters win the day.


No, it's not unreasonable, and that's something that police forces need to be far better at dealing with.
2017-01-11 12:42:20 PM  
2 votes:
The only thing about the whole fiasco that qualifies as an isolated incident is that they're not being given a free pass for their misdeeds...Look how easily they fell in with the PeeOTUS when he promised them total unaccountability.

Law Enforcement was about 75℅ accountable for normalizing Trump.
2017-01-11 12:39:34 PM  
2 votes:

AeAe: All cops are scumbags. Authoritarian assholes that get a hard-on when they assault or kill blacks and other minorities. I piss on cops.


img.fark.net

You earn about a .025/10.....
2017-01-11 12:38:42 PM  
2 votes:

WTP 2: wait until the blacks find out that they are more likely to be killed by other blacks...what will they do then ??


Brushing aside quite a bit of the other ridiculousness of this statement, you do realize it's not just black people affected by law enforcement abuses, yes?

The Michael Slager case shows that it's nearly impossible to prosecute misconduct. A police force with the ability to perform summary executions has no place in a free society.
2017-01-11 12:36:23 PM  
2 votes:
Robocops are the solution.  Properly programmed, they will be highly resistant to corruption.
2017-01-11 12:36:05 PM  
2 votes:

Private_Citizen: GanjSmokr: starsrift: I'm gonna stop you right in the 4th paragraph.

FTFA: Among those police officers surveyed, 86 percent told Pew that they believe the fatal incidents have made their jobs more difficult, while 93 percent say police are now more concerned about their safety as a result. Seventy-five percent said they believe that interactions between black residents and law enforcement have become more tense.

The risk is the job. That's the point. You take a risk - protect AND serve. That's where the whole problem started - cops became more concerned about their safety than doing their jobs.

Looks like it ain't changing anytime soon.

Well yea, it's scary fighting crime.  Best to hide somewhere and leave the crime fighting to the peasants.

http://nypost.com/2013/01/27/city-says-cops-had-no-duty-to-protect-sub​way-hero-who-subdued-killer/

That case is especially egregious. A hero stopped a knife wielding madman, and got stabbed repeatedly while doing it. Not only did the police who were specifically on the train looking for the killer hide while this went on, they only emerged from hiding when it was over.

Icing on the cake? The police took full credit for the capture, and were treated as heroes by the press, while the real hero was recovering in the hospital.


A little more icing was this gem:

Lozito says a grand-jury member later told him Howell admitted on the stand that he hid during the attack because he thought Gelman had a gun.

Granted, it's basically hearsay, but pretty messed up if true.
2017-01-11 12:32:30 PM  
2 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: jshine: f29d6h: Wow the comment section of the actual article is horrible.... I'm disheartened to find even more of it here.

People really hate the cops now.  That's just too bad.

Indeed.  There are some bad cops who have done terrible things, and too often they do escape justice.  ...but the police are also the only thing that stand between civilization and anarchy.  Take away law enforcement altogether and we'd be living in something like Somalia, where it's every man for himself.

For better or worse, the police are a necessary element of society and they are here to stay.  Simply indulging in the Two Minutes Hate isn't going to solve anything.

The police have a perception problem and it's up to them to fix it.  If they want to be perceived the way they wish they were perceived they have to change their behavior and attitude.  Instead they want to do what they want to do while hiding behind the thin blue line and demanding that we love them for it for some reason.  Fix the attitude and the behavior on the cops' end and the perception will change, but it takes time and effort to do that.


On the one hand I agree: the police do have a lot of work to do, and they bear the majority of the responsibility for establishing and maintaining a good working relationship with their host community (and will bear the majority of the burden if they fail).

...but on the other hand, there is, I think, a minimal responsibility incumbent on all of us to recognize that most police officers are not monsters and just want to do their job, collect a paycheck, and maybe do some good along the way.  It's impossible to reach a favorable, mutual outcome if one side is completely determined to hate the other side.
2017-01-11 12:19:38 PM  
2 votes:

f29d6h: Wow the comment section of the actual article is horrible.... I'm disheartened to find even more of it here.

People really hate the cops now.  That's just too bad.


Indeed.  There are some bad cops who have done terrible things, and too often they do escape justice.  ...but the police are also the only thing that stand between civilization and anarchy.  Take away law enforcement altogether and we'd be living in something like Somalia, where it's every man for himself.

For better or worse, the police are a necessary element of society and they are here to stay.  Simply indulging in the Two Minutes Hate isn't going to solve anything.
2017-01-11 12:18:08 PM  
2 votes:

jshine: AdmirableSnackbar: Interesting how the small government conservatives are perfectly OK with agents of the state summarily killing citizens for minor offenses with no repercussions.

And by interesting I mean what the fark is wrong with them that they support those actions?

Who here has argued that summary execution is acceptable?


Quite a few people.  Every time such an event happens we have multiple farkers supporting the actions of police.  They always have a reason that it was a "good shoot" of an unarmed, non-threating black...oh, there it is, I think we know the reason.
2017-01-11 12:10:33 PM  
2 votes:

Russ1642: Percise1: Aww! Poor little schnookums...

Ok, blatant murders aside (racist or not), you might consider that there could be other things making you and your LEO culture unpopular. Things like civil asset forfeiture, militarization of the police, 3am no knock raids for little/no reason (don't even mention wrong address), Us and Them mentality, LEOs with power trips/ego issues are some of them.

I've dealt with quite a few cops that were decent to me, more than were not, but those handful of assholes ruined it for everyone. Biggest problem is that good cops don't necessarily stop the farks, they usually protect them as brethren (see Us and Them).

So, the short of it is that yes, many people don't like you or your sheit. You started it, so don't start crying about how unfair things are. Live it from this side and you'd never stop crying.
Better yet; you broke it, you fix it...

/El WD nailed it with that gif

Even police referring to people as civilians makes me shake my head.


Because the police are civilians too correct?
2017-01-11 12:07:10 PM  
2 votes:

JerkyMeat: If you want to be a cop there is something wrong with you and you should be eliminated for consideration, based on the fact you wanted be a cop.  And cops are basically criminals hiding behind a badge....so yeah.  go f yourself, cop.


Wow. That is the dumbest thing I've read today. Seriously, please get professional help.
2017-01-11 12:03:53 PM  
2 votes:

WTP 2: wait until the blacks find out that they are more likely to be killed by other blacks...what will they do then ??


Blame guns?
2017-01-11 11:48:03 AM  
2 votes:
That's why'ya gotta stick with da low profile killings, I'm tellin'ya.
2017-01-12 09:11:49 AM  
1 vote:

Z-clipped: Mrbogey: I haven't defended reprehensible police behavior.

Hey, you're the one hitching your wagon to the objectively racist, corrupt, scumbag Furguson PD just so you can talk shiat on a dead black kid.  Nobody forced you to do that.


Apparently you don't know the difference between objective and subjective.

A partisan political report found a handful of offensive emails and then tortured statistics to make it appear as if there was racism.

By an actually objective standard, Ferguson PD is not actually racist.

Silly SJW, arresting black people who break the law isn't racism.
2017-01-11 07:50:43 PM  
1 vote:

starsrift: I'm gonna stop you right in the 4th paragraph.

FTFA: Among those police officers surveyed, 86 percent told Pew that they believe the fatal incidents have made their jobs more difficult, while 93 percent say police are now more concerned about their safety as a result. Seventy-five percent said they believe that interactions between black residents and law enforcement have become more tense.

The risk is the job. That's the point. You take a risk - protect AND serve. That's where the whole problem started - cops became more concerned about their safety than doing their jobs.

Looks like it ain't changing anytime soon.


If I would go so far as to defend the police, I think it means that as more people grow distrustful and fearful of the police, they become tempted to just kill the cop first rather than give the cop the opportunity to kill them. It is absolutely correct that cops killing unarmed citizens makes cop work more dangerous.

Of course, the solution to that is stop murdering citizens, pigs.
2017-01-11 05:57:34 PM  
1 vote:

Mrbogey: Z-clipped: Mrbogey: Z-clipped: Mrbogey: IndyJohn: CivicMindedFive:

The facts say 2 things.  Officer whatever was moving backward as he fired and the fatal shot was delivered when brown was about 10 feet away.   Not sure where you get 75 feet but that's super marksman range for a revolver.

Where are you getting your "10 feet" from?  The DOJ report for one does not take a specific position on the relative locations of Brown and Wilson at the time the fatal shots were fired, and specifically notes that shell casings aren't indicative because they are expelled at high speed and bounce all over the place.  Once again, stop pretending you were there.

Casings generally fall fairly predictably based on pistol and shooter.

The 75' nonsense comes from window licking retards confusing the distance between Brown and the car versus Brown and Wilson.

There's a high correlation between retardation and support for Michael Brown.

Yeah, keep working that one tree, and ignoring that you're defending a forest of racist cowards. It makes you seem so credible and righteous.

Christ, lay off being a SJW for one day. Nobody can tolerate you people.

Yeah, nobody likes egalitarians, but everybody just loves bootlickers.

Let's take a poll on who people in the thread would rather have STFU, me or you. Shall we?

Oh, I've no doubt you'd win that vote. It's well known, with all the suburban white kids yelling FTP, that the general crowd in cop threads is primarily window lickers.

Regards voting for king retard doesn't change much though.


Right. It's not that your knee-jerk defense of reprehensible police behavior is wrong... It's that everyone else is stupid.

/urban, white, 40, lots of poor black friends that have been farked over by cops
2017-01-11 05:31:23 PM  
1 vote:

Z-clipped: Mrbogey: Z-clipped: Mrbogey: IndyJohn: CivicMindedFive:

The facts say 2 things.  Officer whatever was moving backward as he fired and the fatal shot was delivered when brown was about 10 feet away.   Not sure where you get 75 feet but that's super marksman range for a revolver.

Where are you getting your "10 feet" from?  The DOJ report for one does not take a specific position on the relative locations of Brown and Wilson at the time the fatal shots were fired, and specifically notes that shell casings aren't indicative because they are expelled at high speed and bounce all over the place.  Once again, stop pretending you were there.

Casings generally fall fairly predictably based on pistol and shooter.

The 75' nonsense comes from window licking retards confusing the distance between Brown and the car versus Brown and Wilson.

There's a high correlation between retardation and support for Michael Brown.

Yeah, keep working that one tree, and ignoring that you're defending a forest of racist cowards. It makes you seem so credible and righteous.

Christ, lay off being a SJW for one day. Nobody can tolerate you people.

Yeah, nobody likes egalitarians, but everybody just loves bootlickers.

Let's take a poll on who people in the thread would rather have STFU, me or you. Shall we?


Oh, I've no doubt you'd win that vote. It's well known, with all the suburban white kids yelling FTP, that the general crowd in cop threads is primarily window lickers.

Regards voting for king retard doesn't change much though.
2017-01-11 04:52:18 PM  
1 vote:

Mrbogey: Z-clipped: Mrbogey: IndyJohn: CivicMindedFive:

The facts say 2 things.  Officer whatever was moving backward as he fired and the fatal shot was delivered when brown was about 10 feet away.   Not sure where you get 75 feet but that's super marksman range for a revolver.

Where are you getting your "10 feet" from?  The DOJ report for one does not take a specific position on the relative locations of Brown and Wilson at the time the fatal shots were fired, and specifically notes that shell casings aren't indicative because they are expelled at high speed and bounce all over the place.  Once again, stop pretending you were there.

Casings generally fall fairly predictably based on pistol and shooter.

The 75' nonsense comes from window licking retards confusing the distance between Brown and the car versus Brown and Wilson.

There's a high correlation between retardation and support for Michael Brown.

Yeah, keep working that one tree, and ignoring that you're defending a forest of racist cowards. It makes you seem so credible and righteous.

Christ, lay off being a SJW for one day. Nobody can tolerate you people.


Yeah, nobody likes egalitarians, but everybody just loves bootlickers.

Let's take a poll on who people in the thread would rather have STFU, me or you. Shall we?
2017-01-11 04:47:52 PM  
1 vote:

Z-clipped: Mrbogey: IndyJohn: CivicMindedFive:

The facts say 2 things.  Officer whatever was moving backward as he fired and the fatal shot was delivered when brown was about 10 feet away.   Not sure where you get 75 feet but that's super marksman range for a revolver.

Where are you getting your "10 feet" from?  The DOJ report for one does not take a specific position on the relative locations of Brown and Wilson at the time the fatal shots were fired, and specifically notes that shell casings aren't indicative because they are expelled at high speed and bounce all over the place.  Once again, stop pretending you were there.

Casings generally fall fairly predictably based on pistol and shooter.

The 75' nonsense comes from window licking retards confusing the distance between Brown and the car versus Brown and Wilson.

There's a high correlation between retardation and support for Michael Brown.

Yeah, keep working that one tree, and ignoring that you're defending a forest of racist cowards. It makes you seem so credible and righteous.


Christ, lay off being a SJW for one day. Nobody can tolerate you people.
2017-01-11 04:42:29 PM  
1 vote:

jshine: f29d6h: Wow the comment section of the actual article is horrible.... I'm disheartened to find even more of it here.

People really hate the cops now.  That's just too bad.

Indeed.  There are some bad cops who have done terrible things, and too often they do escape justice.  ...but the police are also the only thing that stand between civilization and anarchy.  Take away law enforcement altogether and we'd be living in something like Somalia, where it's every man for himself.

For better or worse, the police are a necessary element of society and they are here to stay.  Simply indulging in the Two Minutes Hate isn't going to solve anything.


Police are not a necessary element to society, and create the conditions for anarchy by bleeding the poor.

For the first 80 years of the American Republic, there was no significant police presence.  Sheriffs dealt with taxes, and marshals dealt with delivering court orders.

A few cities developed watch committees to protect businesses, paid for by business associations.

Then, as slavery was going out in America, slave states starting hiring police departments to harass black people, and run them out of town by sundown.

Large business owners saw the effectiveness of using colour of authority to oppress people, and hired cops to attack workers striking or protesting for better wages and conditions.

If a supreme deity consigned all cops and their supporters and their spawn to the oblivion of some abyss, there would be a few months of disruption, but people are far better than you seem to give them credit for being.  Within two years, America would have a much better and more peaceful society, without being bled by pirates with badges.
2017-01-11 04:41:37 PM  
1 vote:

Mrbogey: IndyJohn: CivicMindedFive:

The facts say 2 things.  Officer whatever was moving backward as he fired and the fatal shot was delivered when brown was about 10 feet away.   Not sure where you get 75 feet but that's super marksman range for a revolver.

Where are you getting your "10 feet" from?  The DOJ report for one does not take a specific position on the relative locations of Brown and Wilson at the time the fatal shots were fired, and specifically notes that shell casings aren't indicative because they are expelled at high speed and bounce all over the place.  Once again, stop pretending you were there.

Casings generally fall fairly predictably based on pistol and shooter.

The 75' nonsense comes from window licking retards confusing the distance between Brown and the car versus Brown and Wilson.

There's a high correlation between retardation and support for Michael Brown.


Yeah, keep working that one tree, and ignoring that you're defending a forest of racist cowards. It makes you seem so credible and righteous.
2017-01-11 04:40:41 PM  
1 vote:

AdmirableSnackbar: Well, not all police act like authoritarian assholes. The ones who don't act the part cover up for those who do. If Cops A, B, and C are not authoritarian assholes but Cop D is and A, B, and C don't stand up to D or, worse, cover up for him, then what's the effective difference between that scenario and one where Cops A through D are all authoritarian assholes?


Cops A,B,C will backup without question, Cop D, if they see him in any sort of conflict OR the victim of Cop D dares to defend themself in front of A,B,C.

I'm still looking for the video of police brutality or abuse where the other cops do something besides stand by or assist.  Just once, maybe twice, it would be nice to see a cop trying to stop the abusive cop  right in front of them from going any further.
2017-01-11 04:32:32 PM  
1 vote:

IndyJohn: CivicMindedFive:

The facts say 2 things.  Officer whatever was moving backward as he fired and the fatal shot was delivered when brown was about 10 feet away.   Not sure where you get 75 feet but that's super marksman range for a revolver.

Where are you getting your "10 feet" from?  The DOJ report for one does not take a specific position on the relative locations of Brown and Wilson at the time the fatal shots were fired, and specifically notes that shell casings aren't indicative because they are expelled at high speed and bounce all over the place.  Once again, stop pretending you were there.


Casings generally fall fairly predictably based on pistol and shooter.

The 75' nonsense comes from window licking retards confusing the distance between Brown and the car versus Brown and Wilson.

There's a high correlation between retardation and support for Michael Brown.
2017-01-11 04:21:58 PM  
1 vote:

ChipNASA: WTP 2: wait until the blacks find out that they are more likely to be killed by other blacks...what will they do then ??

[i.imgur.com image 260x194]


He is technically correct, but cops are much more likely to kill someone, on a per capita basis, than the black communities in Chicago, St Louis or any other major city.
2017-01-11 04:19:53 PM  
1 vote:

SwiftFox: Yeah, and the increase in cop deaths are just isolated incidents that innocent BLM protestors aren't responsible for either.  Not being sarcastic, just realistic.


The five cops killed in Dallas, and the three killed in Baton Rouge, were not caused by BLM.

Those 8 killings, more than 10 percent of the total cops killed by firearms, were done by ex soldiers who were frustrated by cops waging war on Americans.

Gavin Long murdered three Baton Rouge cops in the wake of cops killing a poor guy trying to sell cds at a convenience store, and had no connection to BLM.

The murderer in Dallas was also unable to make connection with BLM.

Cops are more likely to kill themselves in a car crash, trying to be "heroes" than to be killed by hostile gunfire.
2017-01-11 04:05:50 PM  
1 vote:

The more you eat the more you fart: CivicMindedFive: IndyJohn: CivicMindedFive:

Wow.  Asking people to not attack a police officer and reach for his gun and following that charge back at the officer is a ever slightly so smaller ask than kiss the pavement and grovel.

You know how we can tell you are a racist asshat?  Because you act as if you know what actually happened.  Two people know what happened, and one is dead.  You're not an eyewitness so stop acting like one.

Forensics say 100% he was partially inside the car and was shot superficially while fighting for the gun.  They also say he was fatally shot on the front and his hands were not up.  Witnesses who were not his Robbery accomplice say he was charging the officer when shot.  I can say what happened with metaphysical certitude but I can say he did quite a bit more than meekly surrender.

Unless he's armed, shooting some fat guy who is 50-75ft from you and walking at you is at the least...Questionable.

To pose an IMMEDIATE deadly threat, a person has to have the means and ability to harm you.  Unless his arms grew 45feet like stretch Adams, he wasn't presenting an immediate threat.

What he did 2 minutes ago is irrelevant, as THAT threat..Was over.


The facts say 2 things.  Officer whatever was moving backward as he fired and the fatal shot was delivered when brown was about 10 feet away.   Not sure where you get 75 feet but that's super marksman range for a revolver.
2017-01-11 04:01:15 PM  
1 vote:

CivicMindedFive: IndyJohn: CivicMindedFive:

Wow.  Asking people to not attack a police officer and reach for his gun and following that charge back at the officer is a ever slightly so smaller ask than kiss the pavement and grovel.

You know how we can tell you are a racist asshat?  Because you act as if you know what actually happened.  Two people know what happened, and one is dead.  You're not an eyewitness so stop acting like one.

Forensics say 100% he was partially inside the car and was shot superficially while fighting for the gun.  They also say he was fatally shot on the front and his hands were not up.  Witnesses who were not his Robbery accomplice say he was charging the officer when shot.  I can say what happened with metaphysical certitude but I can say he did quite a bit more than meekly surrender.


Bullshiat.

1)  Forensics say he was partially in the car.  They do not say he was fighting for the gun.  And they don't answer the question of why he was partially in the car.  The only person who ever said that Brown reached in the car and tried to take the officer's gun is the officer himself (and not under oath).  Call me crazy, but it seems far more plausible that the officer reached out his window and grabbed Brown.  And given that it's police culture to automatically say "I feared for my life" "he reached for my gun" I don't put a whole lot of credence in the officer's story.

2)  As for whether Brown was "charging" Wilson when shot (which is implausible on its face -- Brown knows Wilson is armed and is so far away he had no chance of getting to Wilson without being gunned down), you are being EXTREMELY selective about the witness testimony.  Here's very useful chart showing how the different grand jury witnesses testified about different key facts.  http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/newly-released-witness-testimony-​t​ell-us-michael-brown-shooting/   No clear picture can be drawn from the witness testimony.  But the majority said that Brown was not "charging" Wilson, and one of key witnesses who claimed to have seen Brown "charge" was later unmasked as a publicity-seeker who was making stuff up.  http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/unmasking-Ferguson-witness-40-​4​96236

The bottom line is that neither you nor I really know what happened.  And when someone acts like they know I'm going to call BS.
2017-01-11 04:00:18 PM  
1 vote:

MelGoesOnTour: HotWingConspiracy: I too have a job that would be much easier if I could murder people without consequence, so I feel their pain.

What an idiotic statement.


You have no idea where I work.

I could use the paid time off they get for killing people as well.
2017-01-11 03:43:09 PM  
1 vote:
This article only proves what we already knew: That inside every bully lays a spineless coward.
2017-01-11 03:35:36 PM  
1 vote:
While I have some sympathy for officers whose job is made more difficult, I'm going to reserve most of my sympathy for the people who haven't been convicted of any crime being killed by police.

You can always quit a job.

Can't really quit being dead.
2017-01-11 03:00:20 PM  
1 vote:
Police kill around 928 people a year.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/04/police-killed-people-​f​bi-data-justifiable-homicides

Based on that number, and the CDC death statistics:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr65/nvsr65_04.pdf

Let's put together a short list of
Things Less Deadly than the Police:

Salmonella -45
Shingles-8
Tuberculosis-493
Whopping cough-14
Syphilis-43
Lower respiratory infection-289
Acute Bronchitis-563
Appendicitis-387
Kidney infections-712
Accidental discharge of firearms-586

So, next time you encounter the police, remember to be careful- they can be Deadly!
2017-01-11 02:50:38 PM  
1 vote:

Egoy3k: ITT a bunch of police apologists pretend to not understand that no single killing is the reason people are pissed off and that discrediting individual events in no way addresses the pattern of unjustified shootings that people are reacting to.


It's as if such things as "trends" and "patterns" and especially "history" are unknown and not understood to them...
2017-01-11 02:42:49 PM  
1 vote:

CivicMindedFive: d23: mrsleep: Ooo, yeah, bring up Micheal Brown, the gentle giant who got shot while fighting with a cop. If you still buy that malarkey, you should dig up the witness reports, hands up don't shoot was bullshiat.

Oh yeah, cops are blameless.  Black people should be face down on the ground with their hands out in front of them and pissing their pants whenever they see a cop.  That assumption is what the bullshiat is.

Wow.  Asking people to not attack a police officer and reach for his gun and following that charge back at the officer is a ever slightly so smaller ask than kiss the pavement and grovel.


Yeah, I can't believe that the people of Furguson would rally behind a kid who was unarmed when a cop shot him to death, when the circumstances were murky and no one could agree on what happened.

Sometimes police forces that are corrupt and racist to the bone just cannot catch a break, amirite?
2017-01-11 02:41:41 PM  
1 vote:

mrsleep: .001 of all arrests ends in a death, .0003 end in the death of a black person.

Not even enough to be considered statistically significant.

But hey, the criminals are getting what they want
"Seventy-six percent of those surveyed also say they are now more reluctant to use force when appropriate because of the attention to the incidents, while 72 percent said they are more reluctant to stop and question someone they believe seems suspicious."

Ooo, yeah, bring up Micheal Brown, the gentle giant who got shot while fighting with a cop. If you still buy that malarkey, you should dig up the witness reports, hands up don't shoot was bullshiat.


You know that 'statistically insignificant' crime you're talking about is murder, right? The big no-no? The one universal rule? Even the most twisted cultures uphold it?

But hey, I'm sure they'll never murder you. The amount of melanin in your skin is definitely enough to protect you from being killed. Definitely.
2017-01-11 02:41:21 PM  
1 vote:
ITT a bunch of police apologists pretend to not understand that no single killing is the reason people are pissed off and that discrediting individual events in no way addresses the pattern of unjustified shootings that people are reacting to.
2017-01-11 02:12:27 PM  
1 vote:

Mrbogey: AdmirableSnackbar: Interesting how the small government conservatives are perfectly OK with agents of the state summarily killing citizens for minor offenses with no repercussions.

And by interesting I mean what the fark is wrong with them that they support those actions?

Almost nobody dies at the hands of cops for minor offenses. Trying to shoot a cop, beat him unconscious, or drive over them is not a "minor offense".


img.fark.net
2017-01-11 02:03:36 PM  
1 vote:

MelGoesOnTour: HotWingConspiracy: I too have a job that would be much easier if I could murder people without consequence, so I feel their pain.

What an idiotic statement.


thisisfark.jpg
2017-01-11 02:00:58 PM  
1 vote:

Mrbogey: AdmirableSnackbar: Interesting how the small government conservatives are perfectly OK with agents of the state summarily killing citizens for minor offenses with no repercussions.

And by interesting I mean what the fark is wrong with them that they support those actions?

Almost nobody dies at the hands of cops for minor offenses. Trying to shoot a cop, beat him unconscious, or drive over them is not a "minor offense".


That 'almost' part is quite a few people. We see news about it damn near every day.
2017-01-11 02:00:43 PM  
1 vote:

HotWingConspiracy: I too have a job that would be much easier if I could murder people without consequence, so I feel their pain.


What an idiotic statement.
2017-01-11 01:59:57 PM  
1 vote:

mrsleep: .001 of all arrests ends in a death, .0003 end in the death of a black person.


And those numbers are significantly lower in any of the dozens of wealthy western countries. The police violence you face is a US and US-only phenomenon. It is culturally complicated, but trying to argue that it "isn't a big deal" and "totally normal" is not going to help. It is a big deal and totally not normal. It is also a comparatively recent phenomenon afaik.

Murder rates in the US are sky high compared to any country in the EU for example. Insanely high. Do something about it, in stead of trying to normalise it.
2017-01-11 01:52:19 PM  
1 vote:
Well, folks, it looks like all the right-wing trolls and shills got rained out of the politics tab. I wonder why.
2017-01-11 01:48:13 PM  
1 vote:

AllUpInYa: Linux_Yes: AllUpInYa: Linux_Yes: the thin blue line is only effective because the population agrees with having it. like a redlight, everyone agrees to follow it. a redlight can't stop anyone from driving thru it.  Real Power is in the population, not the police and not the military. (and not the wealthy 1% either)
which is why i kinda prefer to live in a Democratic Republic.

Like the Congo?

no, actually like wall street in September 2008.  that was a real doozie!   those clowns then went running to uncle sam to bail them out with socialist public money, at the protest of millions of phone calls to capital hill not to.

Oh, a place where greed runs rampant, over considerations of humanity and decency - like the Congo


the only difference between wall street and the congo is the clothes.  that,  and you're more likely to find an honest person in the congo than on wall street.
2017-01-11 01:47:41 PM  
1 vote:
Seventy-six percent of those surveyed also say they are now more reluctant to use force when appropriate because of the attention to the incidents, while 72 percent said they are more reluctant to stop and question someone they believe seems suspicious.

Ummmm good?  Shooting someone should be the LAST resort, not the first.  Also believing someone is "suspicious" for standing while black, or walking while black, or just being black is bullshiat.

You want people on your side officer?  Stop shielding the shiatbags on your force.  Seriously, you know who they are, the violent ones, the racists, the power tripping a-holes who joined up so they could legally kill some brown people.  Stop protecting them.  They're the reason you're in this fix.
2017-01-11 01:47:38 PM  
1 vote:

mrsleep: .001 of all arrests ends in a death, .0003 end in the death of a black person.


Please site where your data came from. I'm unaware of the CDC or FBI collecting or reporting such. I've got other questions too regarding how deaths occurring prior to arrest would be listed.
2017-01-11 01:46:53 PM  
1 vote:

Percise1: Aww! Poor little schnookums...

Ok, blatant murders aside (racist or not), you might consider that there could be other things making you and your LEO culture unpopular. Things like civil asset forfeiture, militarization of the police, 3am no knock raids for little/no reason (don't even mention wrong address), Us and Them mentality, LEOs with power trips/ego issues are some of them.

I've dealt with quite a few cops that were decent to me, more than were not, but those handful of assholes ruined it for everyone. Biggest problem is that good cops don't necessarily stop the farks, they usually protect them as brethren (see Us and Them).

So, the short of it is that yes, many people don't like you or your sheit. You started it, so don't start crying about how unfair things are. Live it from this side and you'd never stop crying.
Better yet; you broke it, you fix it...

/El WD nailed it with that gif


^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^
2017-01-11 01:46:51 PM  
1 vote:
Reminder that there is an independent training organization that travels the country training police to shoot first.
2017-01-11 01:33:54 PM  
1 vote:

mrsleep: Not even enough to be considered statistically significant.


Y'all don't know what statistically significant means, it seems.

The error on counting deaths is approximately zero, so...a very small percentage will be significant.
2017-01-11 01:32:19 PM  
1 vote:

jshine: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: jshine: This is simply inaccurate.  If you truly feel that it's realistic to conclude that "all cops" -- 100.00% -- are "scumbags" and "authoritarian assholes," etc., then we are simply too far apart to make further discussion productive.

Yes, some certainly have behaved this way.  They make the news and do exist, but AeAe's post goes far, far beyond that and his claim is not "grounded in reality."

You don't see this as the obverse of the "We are all brothers and sisters in blue" coin?

The police have chosen to pool their integrity as one body and have utterly failed to police their own. That body has become cancerous as a result.

And what prescription do you propose to treat your diagnosis of cancer?


I think a good start would be my proposals above. Fairly commonsense, but to today's police departments, wildly radical.

Trust will not be rebuilt without some transparency and accountability.
2017-01-11 01:25:48 PM  
1 vote:

mrsleep: .001 of all arrests ends in a death, .0003 end in the death of a black person.

Not even enough to be considered statistically significant.

But hey, the criminals are getting what they want
"Seventy-six percent of those surveyed also say they are now more reluctant to use force when appropriate because of the attention to the incidents, while 72 percent said they are more reluctant to stop and question someone they believe seems suspicious."

Ooo, yeah, bring up Micheal Brown, the gentle giant who got shot while fighting with a cop. If you still buy that malarkey, you should dig up the witness reports, hands up don't shoot was bullshiat.


I'm going to assume ignorance rather than malice here, and so temper what would otherwise bee a rather pointed response.  The statistics cease to have any meaning at all - boosting or marginalizing the significance of an event - when it's your brother or sister, your son or daughter, your spouse or partner, your friend or co-worker, your best customer, your neighbor lying in the coffin suddenly, unexpectedly, and early in life.

Just because something is an outlier doesn't mean it's justified or unpreventable.  It also ignores the possibility that there are a vastly overswollen population of arrests making these statistics look the way they do.  If your per capita arrest rate is high enough, almost any outcome will become rare.

If one out of every half-million bank accounts went suddenly and irreversably empty ("sorry, nothing we can do") every year, would that be acceptable?  You'd argue not to worry about it as long as it didn't happen to you, wouldn't you?  Cost of doing business, right?
2017-01-11 01:25:05 PM  
1 vote:

jshine: jshine: Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation. Oscar Wilde
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/o/oscarwilde104275.html?src=​t_quotationI always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking. Dorothy L. Sayers
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/quotation.html

Oops!  Quote-copy fail!

[img.fark.net image 450x300]


Facepalm thinker.

Looks like he is on his whackbreak.
2017-01-11 01:25:04 PM  
1 vote:

jshine: AdmirableSnackbar: "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." - MLK

Ahh, the quotation game!  I love it!

"Avoiding both of these extremes, the middle way ... leads to calm, to direct knowledge ..."
-- Buddha, Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta (translated from Pali) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Way

...or...

"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
-- Oscar Wilde, De Profundis
Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation. Oscar Wilde
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/o/oscarwilde104275.html?src=​t_quotationI always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking. Dorothy L. Sayers
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/quotation.html


The difference is that those of us wanting both accountability and behavioral changes for police are not expressing an extreme position.  Again, YOU were the one and only one even bringing up the idea of disbanding police entirely.

In other words, this shining light of moderation that you claim to be, you're not.  All you're effectively doing is advocating for the status quo.
2017-01-11 01:24:58 PM  
1 vote:

jshine: If you truly feel that it's realistic to conclude that "all cops" -- 100.00% -- are "scumbags" and "authoritarian assholes," etc., then we are simply too far apart to make further discussion productive.


Those words are clearly colored by emotion, but it's not unrealistic to consider "all cops" (say, 99.8%) to be part of the problem.
2017-01-11 01:23:56 PM  
1 vote:

RJReves: I am going to say it.

Cop hatred is just racism turned sideways. Hating a "class of people" simply because they are in that class.

I find it much more satisfying to hate people on an individual basis.


Not really. I can hate child molesters or mass murders as a group and I doubt most people would disagree with me. Sure, the child molesters and mass murders may complain about the hate directed towards them, that they are misunderstood, had lousy childhoods etc., but that won't stop me from hating them as a group. I can also hate them individually (whynotboth.jpg)

That I include cops in that equation for me has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the actions of the police. First hand as well as reports we all read. I would venture to say that there is not a cop today that has 6 months experience or more who has overlooked a crime by a "brother" officer that had it been committed by someone else, they would have arrested them for it.

These cops should really fear the day that suburban mom figures out that it's not racism that drives these cops, but the power trip and knowledge that they can do what they want, when they want, and walk away scot-free. When she finally realizes she has to worry about her own son being gunned down for no reason, her daughter raped to avoid a speeding ticket, or her pet shot because of a bungled address, than shiat is going to come down on them HARD and finally we may see some of the reforms we need to see.

I'm not hopeful and glad I'm old enough not to have to worry about a long future.
2017-01-11 01:21:54 PM  
1 vote:
Dumanis rules El Cajon police shooting of Alfred Olango justified

When your first reaction in dealing with a black person is to shoot, then expect your job to be made more difficult.
  /link comes with video


//Dumanis up for re election in 2018
///she is going down
2017-01-11 01:21:14 PM  
1 vote:

jshine: For that reason, IMHO, too many posters seem to gravitate toward the extreme position of all cops are evil and deserving of contempt.


Weeeeeeeell... they're not all evil, but I have contempt for any cop who would cover for another cop's misconduct, especially at the expense of someone else's life, freedom, safety, or well-being... and let's face it: that's an overwhelming majority of cops, all the way up the ranks.


jshine: But that is not accurate and it is not productive.


I would argue that expressing anger at injustice is absolutely productive, especially when there's pretty much no other recourse for the average citizen.  That's what protests are all about.  Millions of people read Fark, so it's not like expressing an opinion here is that much different from commenting on a news site, or standing in front of City Hall with a sign.
2017-01-11 01:15:33 PM  
1 vote:

AdmirableSnackbar: "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." - MLK


Ahh, the quotation game!  I love it!

"Avoiding both of these extremes, the middle way ... leads to calm, to direct knowledge ..."
-- Buddha, Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta (translated from Pali) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Way

...or...

"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
-- Oscar Wilde, De Profundis
Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation. Oscar Wilde
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/o/oscarwilde104275.html?src=​t_quotationI always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking. Dorothy L. Sayers
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/quotation.html
2017-01-11 01:13:27 PM  
1 vote:

Zeb Hesselgresser: AdmirableSnackbar: Zeb Hesselgresser: AdmirableSnackbar: Interesting how the A.) small government conservatives are perfectly OK with agents of the state summarily killing B.) citizens for minor offenses with no repercussions.

And by interesting I mean what the fark is wrong with them that they support those actions?

I suspect the population of A.) is roughly equal to the population of B.)

In other words, unless your straw man can type, you're going to be disappointed when you don't get an answer.

You seem to be able to type, so please, provide an answer. Why do you and your friends always end up siding with police when they shoot someone?

I see, you're one of those world is black and white, broad brush painting, you're either with us or against us types.  Good luck to you.


As Agent Orange said: Everything Turns Gray.

My worldview is shades of gray. White hats, black hats, effin purple derbys. All just gray.

And yet, overall, I am an optimistic person.
2017-01-11 01:12:39 PM  
1 vote:

jshine: AdmirableSnackbar: jshine: AdmirableSnackbar: jshine: ...but in this meandering thread about police generally, there's room to (legitimately) criticize both sides.

Agreed, we should criticize both the corrupt cops and the "clean" cops who look the other way or cover up the actions of the corrupt cops.

And the people who contribute gems like this:

AeAe: All cops are scumbags. Authoritarian assholes that get a hard-on when they assault or kill blacks and other minorities. I piss on cops.

AeAe is clearly emotional on the subject but his sentiment is understandable based on the behavioral pattern of police.  That's the perception of police based solely on the behavior of police.  Change the behavior and change the perception.  I understand you don't like that he said it, but you can't really criticize him for his sentiments because they are grounded in reality.

This is simply inaccurate.  If you truly feel that it's realistic to conclude that "all cops" -- 100.00% -- are "scumbags" and "authoritarian assholes," etc., then we are simply too far apart to make further discussion productive.

Yes, some certainly have behaved this way.  They make the news and do exist, but AeAe's post goes far, far beyond that and his claim is not "grounded in reality."


Well, not all police act like authoritarian assholes.  The ones who don't act the part cover up for those who do.  If Cops A, B, and C are not authoritarian assholes but Cop D is and A, B, and C don't stand up to D or, worse, cover up for him, then what's the effective difference between that scenario and one where Cops A through D are all authoritarian assholes?
2017-01-11 01:05:03 PM  
1 vote:

Glockenspiel Hero: militarization of SWAT teams


No kidding. Check out this recruitment video for the NJ state police. I saw it on TV and basically said... "Hmm... white guy, white guy with a meanicing-looking police dog, white guy rapelling gout of a helicopter, white guys carrying guns, oh a scene with two women, white guy with a gun, white guy, there's one minority person, and, oh, another white guy with a gun."
2017-01-11 01:02:51 PM  
1 vote:

nijika: f29d6h: Wow the comment section of the actual article is horrible.... I'm disheartened to find even more of it here.
People really hate the cops now.  That's just too bad.

No it's not too bad, it's friggin' horrible.

Authoritarians though, will blame the populace and not the authorities they worship for this problem, and it will continue to exasperate itself.  Nobody trusts cops now, and they're right not to.  The police in my community are from out of town and they act like it.  It's become a predatory relationship where you can't trust them.

Lemme tell you a story... last year one of my relatives went into anaphylactic shock and we had to call 911.  An ambulance arrives along with a patrol car.  While we're all trying to maintain our composure as the medical responders worked on her, the cop stomped around our house on the hunt for "paraphernalia".  This continued even after the epipen worked and she was back on her feet heading out to the ambulance.

I actually had to tell him "ok we're all leaving now to head to the hospital, can you come on out so I can lock up?"  Not a word from this arse.  No eye contact, no acknowledgement of our existence other than as obstacles in his hunt for whatever possible contraband we may have had in our home in plain sight.

And I'm lilly white.  I can't even imagine how these interactions go in a black household.  Actually no wait I can, because they get reported on when someone in the house calls for a medical emergency and a dog or kid ends up getting gunned down for some bizarre reason.

But that's my fault, I guess I should be more understanding?


Talk about making an already dire situation that much worse.  I genuinely mean it when I saw I'm sorry you had to deal with that.
2017-01-11 12:54:04 PM  
1 vote:

AdmirableSnackbar: jshine: ...but in this meandering thread about police generally, there's room to (legitimately) criticize both sides.

Agreed, we should criticize both the corrupt cops and the "clean" cops who look the other way or cover up the actions of the corrupt cops.


And the people who contribute gems like this:

AeAe: All cops are scumbags. Authoritarian assholes that get a hard-on when they assault or kill blacks and other minorities. I piss on cops.

2017-01-11 12:53:17 PM  
1 vote:

AdmirableSnackbar: jshine: AdmirableSnackbar: jshine: if people knew with certainty that there was no consequence for breaking the law, how many would obey it?  Are you really going to argue that people would obey the law in equal measure with or without the presence of law enforcement?

Well, let's look at the behavior of those for whom there is no consequence for breaking the law.  Cops are farking corrupt as hell, thieving and raping and murdering the people whom they are supposed to protect and serve.

So you agree that absence of consequences leads to worse behavior then?

Yes, so I'm wondering why you're the only one ITT bringing up the idea of dismantling police entirely.  The rest of us are trying to demand accountability and rule of law among police officers and all you can do is concern troll away at our demands.


Are you familiar with the concept of a "negative control" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_control#Negative )?  I'm an scientist/engineer by training (engineering PhD working in research), and I suppose it's caused me to apply the concepts of scientific studies in my day-to-day life.  Meh.

To be sure, that's entirely a "thought experiment"; dismantling the police entirely is not a realistic proposal, nor one that I've seen advocated anywhere.
2017-01-11 12:51:26 PM  
1 vote:

AdmirableSnackbar: RJReves: MrEricSir: Maybe stop murdering people?

It isn't that hard, trust me. I've gone my entire life without murdering a single person and I've put zero effort into it. Stop whining about it.

Most police officers haven't killed anyone either. The vast majority haven't.

Maybe the slackers just haven't had the right opportunity yet.


Oh, just stfu.
2017-01-11 12:51:15 PM  
1 vote:

jshine: This text is now purple: jshine: On the one hand I agree: the police do have a lot of work to do, and they bear the majority of the responsibility for establishing and maintaining a good working relationship with their host community (and will bear the majority of the burden if they fail).

...but on the other hand, there is, I think, a minimal responsibility incumbent on all of us to recognize that most police officers are not monsters and just want to do their job, collect a paycheck, and maybe do some good along the way.  It's impossible to reach a favorable, mutual outcome if one side is completely determined to hate the other side.

Is it unreasonable to ask the normals to not cover for the monsters?

Because I'm left with one of two conclusions:
1. There are so many monsters that the normals are afraid to speak out.
2. The normals are unwilling to speak out.

In either case, the monsters win the day.

No, it's not unreasonable, and that's something that police forces need to be far better at dealing with.


This at least, we agree on.
2017-01-11 12:50:43 PM  
1 vote:

RJReves: AeAe: RJReves: AeAe: All cops are scumbags. Authoritarian assholes that get a hard-on when they assault or kill blacks and other minorities. I piss on cops.

The vast majority of police officers are good people doing a very difficult and unappreciated job.

--
That may be, but when they cover for bad cops - those cops that abuse people and the system - are they still "good" cops? I say 'no'. A big reason why a lot of people have negative perceptions of cops is because they cover for the scumbags.

I agree the esprit de corps needs to go. But it is found in professionals across the board.

Don't get me started on doctors.

My Honeybunch died cuz of them. So did my Grandma, who raised me after my mom got busted trying to rob that grocery store with a lighter shaped like a gun.

good times and fond memories


What I meant to say is: the Boys Club mentality is never going away. It has been here longer than the written word.
2017-01-11 12:50:32 PM  
1 vote:

WTP 2: wait until the blacks find out that they are more likely to be killed by other blacks...what will they do then ??



They'll do the same thing whites did when we found out we are more likely to be killed by other whites.
2017-01-11 12:50:13 PM  
1 vote:
I don't understand why we want to make policing more complicated than it should be. If you want to be a police officer it should be expected that your life hold no greater meaning than those you serve and protect. (that is why you get the honors if you die in the line of duty) You wanted the job, no one made you. It is a fairly dangerous occupation that has the risks of you getting shot, stabbed, run over, punched, and insulted.  All of which you accept when you sign up.(that is why you get the honors if you die in the line of duty) Your job is to enforce the law with the utmost honor and integrity. (that is why you get the honors if you die in the line of duty) The rigors of the job should be explained and proper mental and emotional awareness should be a cornerstone of the training. Allowing one to leave their profession without stigma so as to not overstay their effectiveness.

/love cops,EMTs/Firemen
//We don't support them in the right ways all the time.
2017-01-11 12:48:35 PM  
1 vote:

Clemkadidlefark: The shame is this issue cannot be addressed nor correctly diagnosed without running afoul of perceived racism by moderators.

I pray for our police, EMTs, firefighters and all emergency personnel .. they are the front line targets in a war to upend America, and that war cannot be discussed honestly



It can't be discussed honestly because it only exists in your head.
Try to understand and internalize the following sentence: THE VIOLENT CRIME RATE HAS BEEN GOING DOWN FOR 20 YEARS.

The US hasn't seen a lower rate since the early 1970s.
It is half of what it was in the mid-1990s.
2017-01-11 12:46:45 PM  
1 vote:

IvanTheSilent: What, is the Obvious tag off somewhere getting beaten by a cop in riot gear?

Bertuccio: Something that happens every week is an isolated incident?

I guess it doesn't matter if they think they're getting a raw deal, or thing it makes it hard to do their job by not killing people, as long as they stop.

Week?  Try day.  We're 11 days in, and so far 30 Americans, tallied by name, have been killed by law enforcement.  The most egregious (in my opinion,) was on the 9th when a 2 year cop was speeding on the left side of a one way road in the wrong direction, no lights or sirens, and killed a woman.  The local chief says it might take 7 to 10 days to complete the accident report, at which time they'll hand it off to the prosecutor to begin the process of investigation.

http://www.wvgazettemail.com/news/20170109/woman-in-charleston-police-​collision-dies-officers-name-released-

/Reserve deputy
//Really farking tired of other assholes wearing my uniform and the few of us who are legitimately good a bad name


No offense but WHY are you a deputy (reserve or otherwise)?  You're obviously a good guy and even acknowledge by your own statement above that good guys are in the minority:  you can't be popular with your fellow officers.
2017-01-11 12:45:42 PM  
1 vote:

jshine: This text is now purple: jshine: On the one hand I agree: the police do have a lot of work to do, and they bear the majority of the responsibility for establishing and maintaining a good working relationship with their host community (and will bear the majority of the burden if they fail).

...but on the other hand, there is, I think, a minimal responsibility incumbent on all of us to recognize that most police officers are not monsters and just want to do their job, collect a paycheck, and maybe do some good along the way.  It's impossible to reach a favorable, mutual outcome if one side is completely determined to hate the other side.

Is it unreasonable to ask the normals to not cover for the monsters?

Because I'm left with one of two conclusions:
1. There are so many monsters that the normals are afraid to speak out.
2. The normals are unwilling to speak out.

In either case, the monsters win the day.

No, it's not unreasonable, and that's something that police forces need to be far better at dealing with.


It would help if people like you started demanding that kind of accountability instead of whining at the people who demand that kind of accountability.
2017-01-11 12:44:41 PM  
1 vote:

RJReves: MrEricSir: Maybe stop murdering people?

It isn't that hard, trust me. I've gone my entire life without murdering a single person and I've put zero effort into it. Stop whining about it.

Most police officers haven't killed anyone either. The vast majority haven't.


Maybe the slackers just haven't had the right opportunity yet.
2017-01-11 12:42:05 PM  
1 vote:

kirlian: Man, there are gonna be a whole lot of "triggered" farkers in here today.


img.fark.net
/oblig
2017-01-11 12:37:36 PM  
1 vote:

The more you eat the more you fart: Because the police are civilians too correct?


Correct.  We're civilians as well.  My department only uses the word civilian in two cases: to differentiate between deputies and non-deputy employees, and to designate non-deputies when we are partnering with citizens in the field (such as if we are invited to help a business with an active shooter plan.)  All other times, it's citizen.
2017-01-11 12:34:03 PM  
1 vote:

AeAe: All cops are scumbags. Authoritarian assholes that get a hard-on when they assault or kill blacks and other minorities. I piss on cops.


The vast majority of police officers are good people doing a very difficult and unappreciated job.
2017-01-11 12:34:01 PM  
1 vote:

AdmirableSnackbar: Fix the attitude and the behavior on the cops' end and the perception will change, but it takes time and effort to do that.


They can't be fixed. Their primary mission is controlling subject populations and no amount of early retirements and re-training will change that, the police agencies would have to be dissolved and replaced with new ones whose mission is law enforcement. Northern Ireland did it because it's the size of Maine and had one centralised police force. It won't happen here.
2017-01-11 12:21:14 PM  
1 vote:

andthatsok: RJReves: Why no want oversight? WHY?

If you were a cop would you want me to see what you are doing?


If I were a "good cop" I wouldn't be worried about it. Hell man , I honestly wouldn't give a flock if'n I was Truman. If y'alls life is that empty go ahead and watch me sitting, doing Fark or reading a book. Dolores Claiborne currently. Next I think might be either book one of the Thomas Covenant books.

My life sucks, and I like it that way.
2017-01-11 12:20:38 PM  
1 vote:

AdmirableSnackbar: Interesting how the small government conservatives are perfectly OK with agents of the state summarily killing citizens for minor offenses with no repercussions.

And by interesting I mean what the fark is wrong with them that they support those actions?


I'm a conservative and I don't support the killing of citizens over minor offenses. I think police officers that do that should be tried and convicted of murder. That being said, I don't believe it's the huge problem that the media makes it out to be. However, I agree that one murder of an unarmed person is one too many though and I support the use of body cameras for the officers protection as much as those being stopped/questioned/investigated.

Police need more/better training. Those that don't pass the training shouldn't be allowed to interact with the public or be removed from the police department.
2017-01-11 12:12:42 PM  
1 vote:

AdmirableSnackbar: Interesting how the small government conservatives are perfectly OK with agents of the state summarily killing citizens for minor offenses with no repercussions.

And by interesting I mean what the fark is wrong with them that they support those actions?


Who here has argued that summary execution is acceptable?
2017-01-11 12:12:36 PM  
1 vote:

Bertuccio: Something that happens every week is an isolated incident?

I guess it doesn't matter if they think they're getting a raw deal, or thing it makes it hard to do their job by not killing people, as long as they stop.


Islamic terrorists attacks happen every day. Is it fair to paint all muslims as violent extremists?
Same with cops.
 Yet when we learn more info of these high profile killings we find out that it's never as simple as "guy got shot because he's black."
2017-01-11 12:10:42 PM  
1 vote:

JerkyMeat: If you want to be a cop there is something wrong with you and you should be eliminated for consideration, based on the fact you wanted be a cop.  And cops are basically criminals hiding behind a badge....so yeah.  go f yourself, cop.


So you'd prefer a country with no law enforcement of any kind?  I'm not sure you've thought your cunning plan all the way through...

/ because if you exclude all applicants from consideration for the job, then that's exactly where you'd end up
2017-01-11 12:05:59 PM  
1 vote:

The more you eat the more you fart: All I read was that the majority of cops are whiney bastards who don't like being accountable for their own actions, and therefore their deserved reputation.

Yeah...Having someone hold you accountable sucks.  Let me play this tiny violin for you.


s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com
2017-01-11 12:00:16 PM  
1 vote:

Godscrack: What is this snowflakery?


Snowflake. Now in my vocabulary. Along with weaselheaded Fnugget.
2017-01-11 11:59:49 AM  
1 vote:
Yeah, and the increase in cop deaths are just isolated incidents that innocent BLM protestors aren't responsible for either.  Not being sarcastic, just realistic.
 
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