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(Politico)   High-profile killings have made police officers' jobs harder   ( politico.com) divider line
    More: Sad, Police, law enforcement, police officers, percent, Pew Research survey, Sixty-eight percent, Matter protest movement, general public  
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5422 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Jan 2017 at 11:44 AM (36 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-01-11 01:05:03 PM  

Glockenspiel Hero: militarization of SWAT teams


No kidding. Check out this recruitment video for the NJ state police. I saw it on TV and basically said... "Hmm... white guy, white guy with a meanicing-looking police dog, white guy rapelling gout of a helicopter, white guys carrying guns, oh a scene with two women, white guy with a gun, white guy, there's one minority person, and, oh, another white guy with a gun."
 
2017-01-11 01:06:19 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: jshine: AdmirableSnackbar: jshine: ...but in this meandering thread about police generally, there's room to (legitimately) criticize both sides.

Agreed, we should criticize both the corrupt cops and the "clean" cops who look the other way or cover up the actions of the corrupt cops.

And the people who contribute gems like this:

AeAe: All cops are scumbags. Authoritarian assholes that get a hard-on when they assault or kill blacks and other minorities. I piss on cops.

AeAe is clearly emotional on the subject but his sentiment is understandable based on the behavioral pattern of police.  That's the perception of police based solely on the behavior of police.  Change the behavior and change the perception.  I understand you don't like that he said it, but you can't really criticize him for his sentiments because they are grounded in reality.


This is simply inaccurate.  If you truly feel that it's realistic to conclude that "all cops" -- 100.00% -- are "scumbags" and "authoritarian assholes," etc., then we are simply too far apart to make further discussion productive.

Yes, some certainly have behaved this way.  They make the news and do exist, but AeAe's post goes far, far beyond that and his claim is not "grounded in reality."
 
2017-01-11 01:07:22 PM  

Z-clipped: RJReves: AeAe: All cops are scumbags. Authoritarian assholes that get a hard-on when they assault or kill blacks and other minorities. I piss on cops.

The vast majority of police officers are good people doing a very difficult and unappreciated job.

This would be true if and only if those good cops were free to intervene and arrest the bad apples on their forces.  But they're not.  Insular police culture and the blue wall of silence turns ALL of the good cops into bad cops.  Cops who don't toe the line are ostracized and fired.

[YouTube video]


It's that damned "us v them" mentality. Like we aren't all us.

Humans. Poo flinging monkeys, now with keyboards.
 
2017-01-11 01:08:21 PM  

jshine: It's not my intent to blindly white-knight the police, but on the other hand, threads like this tend to lack any moderating voice.  I could have come in and posted any hateful opinion of police and it would be completely accepted.  For that reason, IMHO, too many posters seem to gravitate toward the extreme position of all cops are evil and deserving of contempt.  But that is not accurate and it is not productive.


"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." - MLK

If you're looking to be a "moderate" voice on the subject of police corruption what you're really saying is that you accept it and other should, too.  If you don't want to be seen as being OK with police corruption then instead of only arguing against those complaining about police corruption you should be talking about how it's bad.  Talk about how you feel it's unacceptable more than you talk about how we should be less aggressive and angry in opposing it.

Otherwise you come across as white-knighting the police.
 
2017-01-11 01:08:48 PM  

almostsane: RJReves: I am going to say it.

Cop hatred is just racism turned sideways. Hating a "class of people" simply because they are in that class.

No, it's not:  people don't choose their race;  people choose to become cops and, unfortunately, the type of people who choose to become cops nowadays are overwhelmingly bullies and violent sociopaths. 

I find it much more satisfying to hate people on an individual basis.
That works too.


Now, get outta my yard!! :-D
 
2017-01-11 01:08:57 PM  

jshine: f29d6h: Wow the comment section of the actual article is horrible.... I'm disheartened to find even more of it here.

People really hate the cops now.  That's just too bad.

Indeed.  There are some bad cops who have done terrible things, and too often they do escape justice.  ...but the police are also the only thing that stand between civilization and anarchy.  Take away law enforcement altogether and we'd be living in something like Somalia, where it's every man for himself.

For better or worse, the police are a necessary element of society and they are here to stay.  Simply indulging in the Two Minutes Hate isn't going to solve anything.


Oh please.  Remember that the good cops don't hesitate to back up the bad ones, and will join every cop from 100 miles around to drive in a procession if that bad cop dies.

People will have contempt for the police as long as they act contemptibly.
 
2017-01-11 01:10:15 PM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: AdmirableSnackbar: Zeb Hesselgresser: AdmirableSnackbar: Interesting how the A.) small government conservatives are perfectly OK with agents of the state summarily killing B.) citizens for minor offenses with no repercussions.

And by interesting I mean what the fark is wrong with them that they support those actions?

I suspect the population of A.) is roughly equal to the population of B.)

In other words, unless your straw man can type, you're going to be disappointed when you don't get an answer.

You seem to be able to type, so please, provide an answer. Why do you and your friends always end up siding with police when they shoot someone?

I see, you're one of those world is black and white, broad brush painting, you're either with us or against us types.  Good luck to you.


You didn't answer my question.
 
2017-01-11 01:12:39 PM  

jshine: AdmirableSnackbar: jshine: AdmirableSnackbar: jshine: ...but in this meandering thread about police generally, there's room to (legitimately) criticize both sides.

Agreed, we should criticize both the corrupt cops and the "clean" cops who look the other way or cover up the actions of the corrupt cops.

And the people who contribute gems like this:

AeAe: All cops are scumbags. Authoritarian assholes that get a hard-on when they assault or kill blacks and other minorities. I piss on cops.

AeAe is clearly emotional on the subject but his sentiment is understandable based on the behavioral pattern of police.  That's the perception of police based solely on the behavior of police.  Change the behavior and change the perception.  I understand you don't like that he said it, but you can't really criticize him for his sentiments because they are grounded in reality.

This is simply inaccurate.  If you truly feel that it's realistic to conclude that "all cops" -- 100.00% -- are "scumbags" and "authoritarian assholes," etc., then we are simply too far apart to make further discussion productive.

Yes, some certainly have behaved this way.  They make the news and do exist, but AeAe's post goes far, far beyond that and his claim is not "grounded in reality."


Well, not all police act like authoritarian assholes.  The ones who don't act the part cover up for those who do.  If Cops A, B, and C are not authoritarian assholes but Cop D is and A, B, and C don't stand up to D or, worse, cover up for him, then what's the effective difference between that scenario and one where Cops A through D are all authoritarian assholes?
 
2017-01-11 01:12:50 PM  
I would like to see fatal shootings treated like fatal accidents.
-Run full toxicology screen on all the officers involved. Check for steroids and alcohol as well as the usual street drugs.
-All investigations are conducted by an external agency. The more independent, the better- up to and including starting a NTSB type agency for police shootings and misconduct. Never, Ever allow a department to "investigate" itself.
-Release all findings, including lessons learned and consider if there are changes that would prevent similar incidents in the future.
-If the findings warrant it, allow police to be prosecuted for criminal negligence. A truck driver can't drive through a playground in 2 seconds and excuse the resultant deaths because he was "in fear of his life". Similarly, a police officer should not be able to roll up a playground in seconds and shoot children dead using the same excuse.

Operating deadly equipment in public comes with risks - and obligations. It's shouldn't be controversial to hold a Police officer to the same professional standards as a commercial truck driver.
 
2017-01-11 01:13:27 PM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: AdmirableSnackbar: Zeb Hesselgresser: AdmirableSnackbar: Interesting how the A.) small government conservatives are perfectly OK with agents of the state summarily killing B.) citizens for minor offenses with no repercussions.

And by interesting I mean what the fark is wrong with them that they support those actions?

I suspect the population of A.) is roughly equal to the population of B.)

In other words, unless your straw man can type, you're going to be disappointed when you don't get an answer.

You seem to be able to type, so please, provide an answer. Why do you and your friends always end up siding with police when they shoot someone?

I see, you're one of those world is black and white, broad brush painting, you're either with us or against us types.  Good luck to you.


As Agent Orange said: Everything Turns Gray.

My worldview is shades of gray. White hats, black hats, effin purple derbys. All just gray.

And yet, overall, I am an optimistic person.
 
2017-01-11 01:14:41 PM  

jshine: This is simply inaccurate.  If you truly feel that it's realistic to conclude that "all cops" -- 100.00% -- are "scumbags" and "authoritarian assholes," etc., then we are simply too far apart to make further discussion productive.

Yes, some certainly have behaved this way.  They make the news and do exist, but AeAe's post goes far, far beyond that and his claim is not "grounded in reality."


You don't see this as the obverse of the "We are all brothers and sisters in blue" coin?

The police have chosen to pool their integrity as one body and have utterly failed to police their own. That body has become cancerous as a result.
 
2017-01-11 01:15:33 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." - MLK


Ahh, the quotation game!  I love it!

"Avoiding both of these extremes, the middle way ... leads to calm, to direct knowledge ..."
-- Buddha, Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta (translated from Pali) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Way

...or...

"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
-- Oscar Wilde, De Profundis
Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation. Oscar Wilde
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/o/oscarwilde104275.html?src=​t_quotationI always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking. Dorothy L. Sayers
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/quotation.html
 
2017-01-11 01:18:04 PM  

jshine: Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation. Oscar Wilde
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/o/oscarwilde104275.html?src=​t_quotationI always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking. Dorothy L. Sayers
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/quotation.html


Oops!  Quote-copy fail!

img.fark.net
 
2017-01-11 01:18:57 PM  

almostsane: IvanTheSilent: What, is the Obvious tag off somewhere getting beaten by a cop in riot gear?

Bertuccio: Something that happens every week is an isolated incident?

I guess it doesn't matter if they think they're getting a raw deal, or thing it makes it hard to do their job by not killing people, as long as they stop.

Week?  Try day.  We're 11 days in, and so far 30 Americans, tallied by name, have been killed by law enforcement.  The most egregious (in my opinion,) was on the 9th when a 2 year cop was speeding on the left side of a one way road in the wrong direction, no lights or sirens, and killed a woman.  The local chief says it might take 7 to 10 days to complete the accident report, at which time they'll hand it off to the prosecutor to begin the process of investigation.

http://www.wvgazettemail.com/news/20170109/woman-in-charleston-police-​collision-dies-officers-name-released-

/Reserve deputy
//Really farking tired of other assholes wearing my uniform and the few of us who are legitimately good a bad name

No offense but WHY are you a deputy (reserve or otherwise)?  You're obviously a good guy and even acknowledge by your own statement above that good guys are in the minority:  you can't be popular with your fellow officers.


I can say with complete conviction that my entire department thinks this way.  We recognize that trust in our community makes our county safer.  Although a slim majority of deputies are veterans, we aren't militarized.  Unless you're SWAT, you're issued a shotgun instead of an AR.  We are quick to fire officers that don't meet our standards.  Get three complaints for conduct unbecoming (including simple things like using profanity) and you're out.  Hell, we even issue press releases giving our citizens the dates, times and locations of our DUI checkpoints, speed checks, and other community operations.

We're not heroes, nor are we some bastion of integrity and honor.  We're just people trying to do right by the citizens we're sworn to protect.  It's always the assholes who see themselves as the hero, the "thin blue line between order and anarchy" that do shiat that puts them in the news, and as I said before, I (and my teammates,) are tired as hell of being lumped in with them.
 
2017-01-11 01:19:09 PM  

Private_Citizen: I would like to see fatal shootings treated like fatal accidents.
-Run full toxicology screen on all the officers involved. Check for steroids and alcohol as well as the usual street drugs.
-All investigations are conducted by an external agency. The more independent, the better- up to and including starting a NTSB type agency for police shootings and misconduct. Never, Ever allow a department to "investigate" itself.
-Release all findings, including lessons learned and consider if there are changes that would prevent similar incidents in the future.
-If the findings warrant it, allow police to be prosecuted for criminal negligence. A truck driver can't drive through a playground in 2 seconds and excuse the resultant deaths because he was "in fear of his life". Similarly, a police officer should not be able to roll up a playground in seconds and shoot children dead using the same excuse.

Operating deadly equipment in public comes with risks - and obligations. It's shouldn't be controversial to hold a Police officer to the same professional standards as a commercial truck driver.


i agree.
some police do drugs, which i have seen firsthand, and not just pot.
 
2017-01-11 01:19:24 PM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: jshine: This is simply inaccurate.  If you truly feel that it's realistic to conclude that "all cops" -- 100.00% -- are "scumbags" and "authoritarian assholes," etc., then we are simply too far apart to make further discussion productive.

Yes, some certainly have behaved this way.  They make the news and do exist, but AeAe's post goes far, far beyond that and his claim is not "grounded in reality."

You don't see this as the obverse of the "We are all brothers and sisters in blue" coin?

The police have chosen to pool their integrity as one body and have utterly failed to police their own. That body has become cancerous as a result.


And what prescription do you propose to treat your diagnosis of cancer?
 
2017-01-11 01:21:14 PM  

jshine: For that reason, IMHO, too many posters seem to gravitate toward the extreme position of all cops are evil and deserving of contempt.


Weeeeeeeell... they're not all evil, but I have contempt for any cop who would cover for another cop's misconduct, especially at the expense of someone else's life, freedom, safety, or well-being... and let's face it: that's an overwhelming majority of cops, all the way up the ranks.


jshine: But that is not accurate and it is not productive.


I would argue that expressing anger at injustice is absolutely productive, especially when there's pretty much no other recourse for the average citizen.  That's what protests are all about.  Millions of people read Fark, so it's not like expressing an opinion here is that much different from commenting on a news site, or standing in front of City Hall with a sign.
 
2017-01-11 01:21:54 PM  
Dumanis rules El Cajon police shooting of Alfred Olango justified

When your first reaction in dealing with a black person is to shoot, then expect your job to be made more difficult.
  /link comes with video


//Dumanis up for re election in 2018
///she is going down
 
2017-01-11 01:23:08 PM  

rewind2846: Dumanis rules El Cajon police shooting of Alfred Olango justified

When your first reaction in dealing with a black person is to shoot, then expect your job to be made more difficult.
  /link comes with video


//Dumanis up for re election in 2018
///she is going down


On who?
 
2017-01-11 01:23:56 PM  

RJReves: I am going to say it.

Cop hatred is just racism turned sideways. Hating a "class of people" simply because they are in that class.

I find it much more satisfying to hate people on an individual basis.


Not really. I can hate child molesters or mass murders as a group and I doubt most people would disagree with me. Sure, the child molesters and mass murders may complain about the hate directed towards them, that they are misunderstood, had lousy childhoods etc., but that won't stop me from hating them as a group. I can also hate them individually (whynotboth.jpg)

That I include cops in that equation for me has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the actions of the police. First hand as well as reports we all read. I would venture to say that there is not a cop today that has 6 months experience or more who has overlooked a crime by a "brother" officer that had it been committed by someone else, they would have arrested them for it.

These cops should really fear the day that suburban mom figures out that it's not racism that drives these cops, but the power trip and knowledge that they can do what they want, when they want, and walk away scot-free. When she finally realizes she has to worry about her own son being gunned down for no reason, her daughter raped to avoid a speeding ticket, or her pet shot because of a bungled address, than shiat is going to come down on them HARD and finally we may see some of the reforms we need to see.

I'm not hopeful and glad I'm old enough not to have to worry about a long future.
 
2017-01-11 01:24:58 PM  

jshine: If you truly feel that it's realistic to conclude that "all cops" -- 100.00% -- are "scumbags" and "authoritarian assholes," etc., then we are simply too far apart to make further discussion productive.


Those words are clearly colored by emotion, but it's not unrealistic to consider "all cops" (say, 99.8%) to be part of the problem.
 
2017-01-11 01:25:04 PM  

jshine: AdmirableSnackbar: "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." - MLK

Ahh, the quotation game!  I love it!

"Avoiding both of these extremes, the middle way ... leads to calm, to direct knowledge ..."
-- Buddha, Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta (translated from Pali) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Way

...or...

"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
-- Oscar Wilde, De Profundis
Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation. Oscar Wilde
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/o/oscarwilde104275.html?src=​t_quotationI always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking. Dorothy L. Sayers
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/quotation.html


The difference is that those of us wanting both accountability and behavioral changes for police are not expressing an extreme position.  Again, YOU were the one and only one even bringing up the idea of disbanding police entirely.

In other words, this shining light of moderation that you claim to be, you're not.  All you're effectively doing is advocating for the status quo.
 
2017-01-11 01:25:05 PM  

jshine: jshine: Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation. Oscar Wilde
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/o/oscarwilde104275.html?src=​t_quotationI always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking. Dorothy L. Sayers
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/quotation.html

Oops!  Quote-copy fail!

[img.fark.net image 450x300]


Facepalm thinker.

Looks like he is on his whackbreak.
 
2017-01-11 01:25:48 PM  

mrsleep: .001 of all arrests ends in a death, .0003 end in the death of a black person.

Not even enough to be considered statistically significant.

But hey, the criminals are getting what they want
"Seventy-six percent of those surveyed also say they are now more reluctant to use force when appropriate because of the attention to the incidents, while 72 percent said they are more reluctant to stop and question someone they believe seems suspicious."

Ooo, yeah, bring up Micheal Brown, the gentle giant who got shot while fighting with a cop. If you still buy that malarkey, you should dig up the witness reports, hands up don't shoot was bullshiat.


I'm going to assume ignorance rather than malice here, and so temper what would otherwise bee a rather pointed response.  The statistics cease to have any meaning at all - boosting or marginalizing the significance of an event - when it's your brother or sister, your son or daughter, your spouse or partner, your friend or co-worker, your best customer, your neighbor lying in the coffin suddenly, unexpectedly, and early in life.

Just because something is an outlier doesn't mean it's justified or unpreventable.  It also ignores the possibility that there are a vastly overswollen population of arrests making these statistics look the way they do.  If your per capita arrest rate is high enough, almost any outcome will become rare.

If one out of every half-million bank accounts went suddenly and irreversably empty ("sorry, nothing we can do") every year, would that be acceptable?  You'd argue not to worry about it as long as it didn't happen to you, wouldn't you?  Cost of doing business, right?
 
2017-01-11 01:26:50 PM  

Z-clipped: jshine: But that is not accurate and it is not productive.

I would argue that expressing anger at injustice is absolutely productive, especially when there's pretty much no other recourse for the average citizen. That's what protests are all about. Millions of people read Fark, so it's not like expressing an opinion here is that much different from commenting on a news site, or standing in front of City Hall with a sign.


I don't disagree, but that's not the quote you were replying to.  Try:

jshine: It's not my intent to blindly white-knight the police, but on the other hand, threads like this tend to lack any moderating voice. I could have come in and posted any hateful opinion of police and it would be completely accepted. For that reason, IMHO, too many posters seem to gravitate toward the extreme position of all cops are evil and deserving of contempt. But that is not accurate and it is not productive.


Context matters a lot where quotations are concerned.  ...and I maintain that blind hate of police is not productive, though I have no problem with expressing anger over specific incidents where the facts merit it.
 
2017-01-11 01:27:06 PM  

Z-clipped: There are numerous things that need to change about the way we police ourselves (community policing, less aggressive tactics, separation of financial incentives, better systems of performance evaluation) in order to make the agencies come into line with what a civilized society should expect, but there's only one way to restore public confidence in police forces in this country:

Stop hand-waving away misconduct, and start prosecuting every offense by police to the fullest extent of the law.  No more benefit of the doubt.  No more blue line.  Community and federal oversight, with real, serious consequences for officers who abuse authority, use excessive force, railroad people, or violate their rights, and a duty for officers to hold one another accountable for misconduct.  Even being impolite to non-aggressive suspects should come with repercussions and discipline for cops.  "Under color of authority" needs to be a serious intensifier that is liberally applied to minor crimes committed by police, and "accessory" for those police who see or know and do nothing.

We're way past the point where improving police behavior and reducing negative incidents alone is going to be effective.  Bad seeds need to be scared to ever join police forces in the first place, and the existing officers need to be able to police their own ranks without fear of ostracism.  It's the only way to fix things.

Service first.  Then comes respect.

/never gonna happen


Considering some of the stuff Sessions said yesterday, I'm ready for full-on accelerationism.  Patrolling in helmets and body armor with ARs will probably be the norm in a couple more years.
 
2017-01-11 01:28:25 PM  

Linux_Yes: the thin blue line is only effective because the population agrees with having it. like a redlight, everyone agrees to follow it. a redlight can't stop anyone from driving thru it.  Real Power is in the population, not the police and not the military. (and not the wealthy 1% either)
which is why i kinda prefer to live in a Democratic Republic.


Like the Congo?
 
2017-01-11 01:28:42 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: Again, YOU were the one and only one even bringing up the idea of disbanding police entirely.


I never expressed that as a realistic option, as has been previously stated.
 
2017-01-11 01:29:38 PM  

RJReves: almostsane: RJReves: I am going to say it.

Cop hatred is just racism turned sideways. Hating a "class of people" simply because they are in that class.

No, it's not:  people don't choose their race;  people choose to become cops and, unfortunately, the type of people who choose to become cops nowadays are overwhelmingly bullies and violent sociopaths. 

I find it much more satisfying to hate people on an individual basis.
That works too.

Now, get outta my yard!! :-D


Sigh.  Fine, I'm leaving  {waves bye-bye}
 
2017-01-11 01:31:34 PM  
Anyway, it's been fun, but I've got to go eat.  Cheers!
 
2017-01-11 01:31:53 PM  

IvanTheSilent: We're not heroes, nor are we some bastion of integrity and honor.  We're just people trying to do right by the citizens we're sworn to protect.  It's always the assholes who see themselves as the hero, the "thin blue line between order and anarchy" that do shiat that puts them in the news, and as I said before, I (and my teammates,) are tired as hell of being lumped in with them.


Can you come with me to the planet Kamino for a day or so?  I need to take a few DNA samples.

/seriously... if you are what you say, thanks for being part of the solution
 
2017-01-11 01:32:19 PM  

jshine: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: jshine: This is simply inaccurate.  If you truly feel that it's realistic to conclude that "all cops" -- 100.00% -- are "scumbags" and "authoritarian assholes," etc., then we are simply too far apart to make further discussion productive.

Yes, some certainly have behaved this way.  They make the news and do exist, but AeAe's post goes far, far beyond that and his claim is not "grounded in reality."

You don't see this as the obverse of the "We are all brothers and sisters in blue" coin?

The police have chosen to pool their integrity as one body and have utterly failed to police their own. That body has become cancerous as a result.

And what prescription do you propose to treat your diagnosis of cancer?


I think a good start would be my proposals above. Fairly commonsense, but to today's police departments, wildly radical.

Trust will not be rebuilt without some transparency and accountability.
 
2017-01-11 01:32:41 PM  

jshine: Anyway, it's been fun, but I've got to go eat.  Cheers!


Be cautious if lunch is grilled cheese.
 
2017-01-11 01:33:08 PM  

mrsleep: .001 of all arrests ends in a death, .0003 end in the death of a black person.

Not even enough to be considered statistically significant.


If you had a bowl of 1000 skittles, and you knew that one of them was actually a deadly cyanide pill, would you ignore the poison one and eat some of them anyway?
 
2017-01-11 01:33:54 PM  

mrsleep: Not even enough to be considered statistically significant.


Y'all don't know what statistically significant means, it seems.

The error on counting deaths is approximately zero, so...a very small percentage will be significant.
 
2017-01-11 01:35:23 PM  
Sorry, let me rephrase that.  Would you accept the danger of being forced to eat from that bowl, based on someone else's opinion that the risk was insignificant?
 
2017-01-11 01:36:51 PM  

WTP 2: wait until the blacks find out that they are more likely to be killed by other blacks...what will they do then ??


Wait until you find out whites are more likely to be killed by whites, and latinos are more likely to be killed by latinos too.

Useless statistic is useless.
 
2017-01-11 01:37:27 PM  

jshine: AdmirableSnackbar: Again, YOU were the one and only one even bringing up the idea of disbanding police entirely.

I never expressed that as a realistic option, as has been previously stated.


It was your first and so far only proposal as an alternative as opposed to police changing their attitudes and behaviors.  People are demanding change and all you could do is say "but wouldn't it be worse without them at all?"

Sorry, my friend, but you're not providing an moderate voice otherwise you'd have something to say to the "cops are perfect in every way" crowd.  If you're only trying to moderate one side of the argument then your credibility as a moderate voice is effectively zero.  It's a perfect representation of the not-blatantly-corrupt police officers' viewpoints - you're against the people looking for reform because they aren't thanking police for the good things they occasionally do and you're effectively standing up for the corrupt cops only because of the words being used against them.

I've seen the "if only you were nicer to us we'd try to behave like human beings with empathy towards others instead of the shiatheels we are" defense used by conservatives and I used it myself quite a few times back in my younger, dumber, more brainwashed days. My extensive experience with it means I understand how much BS it is, and with you my BS detector is pinging off the rails at your posts here.
 
2017-01-11 01:37:33 PM  

IvanTheSilent: The more you eat the more you fart: Because the police are civilians too correct?

Correct.  We're civilians as well.  My department only uses the word civilian in two cases: to differentiate between deputies and non-deputy employees, and to designate non-deputies when we are partnering with citizens in the field (such as if we are invited to help a business with an active shooter plan.)  All other times, it's citizen.


As in "Pick up that can, Citizen!"?
JUST KIDDING!
don't shoot
STILL KIDDING!
The real irony is that most people (pretty much everyone not normally involved in illegal pursuits) would much rather be able to trust and respect police on the whole. Law enforcement isn't always making that easy though and it isn't just the last few years and 'high profile' shootings, it is an entire culture and goal shift that is quite worrisome.
The recent court rulings that LE 'doesn't have an obligation to keep you safe' is counter productive as well. If that is the case, then why bother with them? No easy fix with this one...
 
2017-01-11 01:39:57 PM  

AeAe: All cops are scumbags. Authoritarian assholes that get a hard-on when they assault or kill blacks and other minorities. I piss on cops.


Mediocre false flaggin' there, comrade.
 
2017-01-11 01:40:55 PM  

AllUpInYa: Linux_Yes: the thin blue line is only effective because the population agrees with having it. like a redlight, everyone agrees to follow it. a redlight can't stop anyone from driving thru it.  Real Power is in the population, not the police and not the military. (and not the wealthy 1% either)
which is why i kinda prefer to live in a Democratic Republic.

Like the Congo?


no, actually like wall street in September 2008.  that was a real doozie!   those clowns then went running to uncle sam to bail them out with socialist public money, at the protest of millions of phone calls to capital hill not to.
 
2017-01-11 01:42:38 PM  

WTP 2: wait until the blacks find out that they are more likely to be killed by other blacks...what will they do then ??


The same as when white people find out that they are more likely to be killed by other whites (84%).
They will see that neither statistic has f*ck all to do with cops killing black people, white people or anyone else who is unarmed.
 
2017-01-11 01:43:44 PM  

IvanTheSilent: almostsane: IvanTheSilent: What, is the Obvious tag off somewhere getting beaten by a cop in riot gear?

Bertuccio: Something that happens every week is an isolated incident?

I guess it doesn't matter if they think they're getting a raw deal, or thing it makes it hard to do their job by not killing people, as long as they stop.

Week?  Try day.  We're 11 days in, and so far 30 Americans, tallied by name, have been killed by law enforcement.  The most egregious (in my opinion,) was on the 9th when a 2 year cop was speeding on the left side of a one way road in the wrong direction, no lights or sirens, and killed a woman.  The local chief says it might take 7 to 10 days to complete the accident report, at which time they'll hand it off to the prosecutor to begin the process of investigation.

http://www.wvgazettemail.com/news/20170109/woman-in-charleston-police-​collision-dies-officers-name-released-

/Reserve deputy
//Really farking tired of other assholes wearing my uniform and the few of us who are legitimately good a bad name

No offense but WHY are you a deputy (reserve or otherwise)?  You're obviously a good guy and even acknowledge by your own statement above that good guys are in the minority:  you can't be popular with your fellow officers.

I can say with complete conviction that my entire department thinks this way.  We recognize that trust in our community makes our county safer.  Although a slim majority of deputies are veterans, we aren't militarized.  Unless you're SWAT, you're issued a shotgun instead of an AR.  We are quick to fire officers that don't meet our standards.  Get three complaints for conduct unbecoming (including simple things like using profanity) and you're out.  Hell, we even issue press releases giving our citizens the dates, times and locations of our DUI checkpoints, speed checks, and other community operations.

We're not heroes, nor are we some bastion of integrity and honor.  We're just people trying to do right by the citizens ...


I sincerely wish that more (heck, ALL) police departments operated like this:  we wouldn't be having this thread.
 
2017-01-11 01:44:14 PM  

jshine: Context matters a lot where quotations are concerned.  ...and I maintain that blind hate of police is not productive, though I have no problem with expressing anger over specific incidents where the facts merit it.


Totally wasn't trying to take you out of context, just trying to keep the post clean and make it obvious where I was jumping in.

I get that you're trying to preach moderation, but don't fall into the trap of assuming that people expressing anger at broad aspects of police culture are doing so blindly.  There are a lot of valid things to hate about the way we police ourselves that are based on an amalgamation of events and circumstances.  Admitting that the problems are systemic and not situational is the first step away from being labeled an apologist.  I'm not saying you're an apologist, but the demand to treat every incident as isolated and individual is a common tactic used by them to avoid addressing the real issues.
 
2017-01-11 01:44:38 PM  

AllUpInYa: Linux_Yes: the thin blue line is only effective because the population agrees with having it. like a redlight, everyone agrees to follow it. a redlight can't stop anyone from driving thru it.  Real Power is in the population, not the police and not the military. (and not the wealthy 1% either)
which is why i kinda prefer to live in a Democratic Republic.

Like the Congo?


I prefer a People's Republic, like China....
 
2017-01-11 01:44:48 PM  

RJReves: I am going to say it.

Cop hatred is just racism turned sideways.


Cops can voluntarily take off their uniforms and quit being cops.
When are you going to volunteer to change the color of your skin?
 
2017-01-11 01:44:48 PM  

The more you eat the more you fart: Russ1642: Percise1: Aww! Poor little schnookums...

Ok, blatant murders aside (racist or not), you might consider that there could be other things making you and your LEO culture unpopular. Things like civil asset forfeiture, militarization of the police, 3am no knock raids for little/no reason (don't even mention wrong address), Us and Them mentality, LEOs with power trips/ego issues are some of them.

I've dealt with quite a few cops that were decent to me, more than were not, but those handful of assholes ruined it for everyone. Biggest problem is that good cops don't necessarily stop the farks, they usually protect them as brethren (see Us and Them).

So, the short of it is that yes, many people don't like you or your sheit. You started it, so don't start crying about how unfair things are. Live it from this side and you'd never stop crying.
Better yet; you broke it, you fix it...

/El WD nailed it with that gif

Even police referring to people as civilians makes me shake my head.

Because the police are civilians too correct?


for now anyway...
 
2017-01-11 01:45:50 PM  

Linux_Yes: AllUpInYa: Linux_Yes: the thin blue line is only effective because the population agrees with having it. like a redlight, everyone agrees to follow it. a redlight can't stop anyone from driving thru it.  Real Power is in the population, not the police and not the military. (and not the wealthy 1% either)
which is why i kinda prefer to live in a Democratic Republic.

Like the Congo?

no, actually like wall street in September 2008.  that was a real doozie!   those clowns then went running to uncle sam to bail them out with socialist public money, at the protest of millions of phone calls to capital hill not to.


Oh, a place where greed runs rampant, over considerations of humanity and decency - like the Congo
 
2017-01-11 01:46:35 PM  

Cdr.Murdock: AllUpInYa: Linux_Yes: the thin blue line is only effective because the population agrees with having it. like a redlight, everyone agrees to follow it. a redlight can't stop anyone from driving thru it.  Real Power is in the population, not the police and not the military. (and not the wealthy 1% either)
which is why i kinda prefer to live in a Democratic Republic.

Like the Congo?

I prefer a People's Republic, like China....


China is a communist state, acc. to cia.gov
but the American press prefers plain ole' 'china' because American capitalists and their precious stock owners loves them some cheap commie labor.  they despise communism unless it's in someone else's country, then they, like vultures, feed on that sweet cheap commie labor.
 
2017-01-11 01:46:51 PM  
Reminder that there is an independent training organization that travels the country training police to shoot first.
 
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