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(Politico)   High-profile killings have made police officers' jobs harder   (politico.com ) divider line
    More: Sad, Police, law enforcement, police officers, percent, Pew Research survey, Sixty-eight percent, Matter protest movement, general public  
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5208 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Jan 2017 at 11:44 AM (8 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-01-11 12:38:45 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Robocops are the solution.  Properly programmed, they will be highly resistant to corruption.


Hopefully they use a different company than the one they use for our voting machines.
 
2017-01-11 12:39:06 PM  

Percise1: Aww! Poor little schnookums...

Ok, blatant murders aside (racist or not), you might consider that there could be other things making you and your LEO culture unpopular. Things like civil asset forfeiture, militarization of the police, 3am no knock raids for little/no reason (don't even mention wrong address), Us and Them mentality, LEOs with power trips/ego issues are some of them.

I've dealt with quite a few cops that were decent to me, more than were not, but those handful of assholes ruined it for everyone. Biggest problem is that good cops don't necessarily stop the farks, they usually protect them as brethren (see Us and Them).

So, the short of it is that yes, many people don't like you or your sheit. You started it, so don't start crying about how unfair things are. Live it from this side and you'd never stop crying.
Better yet; you broke it, you fix it...


This!
 
2017-01-11 12:39:34 PM  

AeAe: All cops are scumbags. Authoritarian assholes that get a hard-on when they assault or kill blacks and other minorities. I piss on cops.


img.fark.net

You earn about a .025/10.....
 
2017-01-11 12:39:41 PM  

jshine: Okay, I'll grant that in the 0.01% of situations where the National Guard are required (e.g., Hurricanes, etc.), they do have a role to play too.  Along with the FBI, Federal Marshals, Secret Service, etc.  But these are corner cases, and still acting as "law enforcement" if not technically "police".


img.fark.net

Fundamentally, what stops society from collapsing into chaos is society itself. The police facilitate and centralize the process, but society can and has existed in the absence of a police force, and social uprisings have been ended by the efforts of other social actors.

Often it comes down to a simple stand where one refuses to let someone else burn their shiat down.
 
2017-01-11 12:40:15 PM  
Maybe stop murdering people?

It isn't that hard, trust me. I've gone my entire life without murdering a single person and I've put zero effort into it. Stop whining about it.
 
2017-01-11 12:40:34 PM  
I am going to say it.

Cop hatred is just racism turned sideways. Hating a "class of people" simply because they are in that class.

I find it much more satisfying to hate people on an individual basis.
 
2017-01-11 12:40:38 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: jshine: This text is now purple: jshine: ...but the police are also the only thing that stand between civilization and anarchy.

Which is why every time shiat has really hit the fan, the police have been the first ones out of town and soldiers have been called in to handle things?

If you're talking about the National Guard (the "militia"), then yes, in extreme circumstances (natural disasters, etc.) that exceed the capacity of the normal police force, they are called in to assist.  What's your point?  Are you saying that the National Guard is the body that's truly responsible for maintaining the rule of law?

Since when do cops maintain the rule of law?  They only enforce the laws, they don't ensure that no laws are broken.


This seems like a semantic argument without any real substance.  You're right, I suppose, but that point doesn't really contradict the post you were replying to.

Of course cops are reactionary, but it's the knowledge or fear of that reaction that makes laws work.  I.e., if people knew with certainty that there was no consequence for breaking the law, how many would obey it?  Are you really going to argue that people would obey the law in equal measure with or without the presence of law enforcement?
 
2017-01-11 12:40:41 PM  

RJReves: AeAe: All cops are scumbags. Authoritarian assholes that get a hard-on when they assault or kill blacks and other minorities. I piss on cops.

The vast majority of police officers are good people doing a very difficult and unappreciated job.


--
That may be, but when they cover for bad cops - those cops that abuse people and the system - are they still "good" cops? I say 'no'. A big reason why a lot of people have negative perceptions of cops is because they cover for the scumbags.
 
2017-01-11 12:41:25 PM  

Cdr.Murdock: AeAe: All cops are scumbags. Authoritarian assholes that get a hard-on when they assault or kill blacks and other minorities. I piss on cops.

[img.fark.net image 180x230]

You earn about a .025/10.....


TYVM granny! LOL
 
2017-01-11 12:42:05 PM  

kirlian: Man, there are gonna be a whole lot of "triggered" farkers in here today.


img.fark.net
/oblig
 
2017-01-11 12:42:20 PM  
The only thing about the whole fiasco that qualifies as an isolated incident is that they're not being given a free pass for their misdeeds...Look how easily they fell in with the PeeOTUS when he promised them total unaccountability.

Law Enforcement was about 75℅ accountable for normalizing Trump.
 
2017-01-11 12:42:32 PM  

MrEricSir: Maybe stop murdering people?

It isn't that hard, trust me. I've gone my entire life without murdering a single person and I've put zero effort into it. Stop whining about it.


Most police officers haven't killed anyone either. The vast majority haven't.
 
2017-01-11 12:43:30 PM  

jshine: if people knew with certainty that there was no consequence for breaking the law, how many would obey it?  Are you really going to argue that people would obey the law in equal measure with or without the presence of law enforcement?


Well, let's look at the behavior of those for whom there is no consequence for breaking the law.  Cops are farking corrupt as hell, thieving and raping and murdering the people whom they are supposed to protect and serve.

If we don't enforce the law among the law enforcement agencies, then can we really call this a nation of laws?  What the fark good are your laws when only certain people have to abide by those laws and certain people are targeted by law enforcement whether or not they broke any laws?
 
TWX
2017-01-11 12:43:36 PM  

WTP 2: wait until the blacks find out that they are more likely to be killed by other blacks...what will they do then ??


It's a small problem.
 
2017-01-11 12:44:27 PM  

This text is now purple: jshine: On the one hand I agree: the police do have a lot of work to do, and they bear the majority of the responsibility for establishing and maintaining a good working relationship with their host community (and will bear the majority of the burden if they fail).

...but on the other hand, there is, I think, a minimal responsibility incumbent on all of us to recognize that most police officers are not monsters and just want to do their job, collect a paycheck, and maybe do some good along the way.  It's impossible to reach a favorable, mutual outcome if one side is completely determined to hate the other side.

Is it unreasonable to ask the normals to not cover for the monsters?

Because I'm left with one of two conclusions:
1. There are so many monsters that the normals are afraid to speak out.
2. The normals are unwilling to speak out.

In either case, the monsters win the day.


No, it's not unreasonable, and that's something that police forces need to be far better at dealing with.
 
2017-01-11 12:44:41 PM  

RJReves: MrEricSir: Maybe stop murdering people?

It isn't that hard, trust me. I've gone my entire life without murdering a single person and I've put zero effort into it. Stop whining about it.

Most police officers haven't killed anyone either. The vast majority haven't.


Maybe the slackers just haven't had the right opportunity yet.
 
2017-01-11 12:45:42 PM  

jshine: This text is now purple: jshine: On the one hand I agree: the police do have a lot of work to do, and they bear the majority of the responsibility for establishing and maintaining a good working relationship with their host community (and will bear the majority of the burden if they fail).

...but on the other hand, there is, I think, a minimal responsibility incumbent on all of us to recognize that most police officers are not monsters and just want to do their job, collect a paycheck, and maybe do some good along the way.  It's impossible to reach a favorable, mutual outcome if one side is completely determined to hate the other side.

Is it unreasonable to ask the normals to not cover for the monsters?

Because I'm left with one of two conclusions:
1. There are so many monsters that the normals are afraid to speak out.
2. The normals are unwilling to speak out.

In either case, the monsters win the day.

No, it's not unreasonable, and that's something that police forces need to be far better at dealing with.


It would help if people like you started demanding that kind of accountability instead of whining at the people who demand that kind of accountability.
 
2017-01-11 12:45:45 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: jshine: if people knew with certainty that there was no consequence for breaking the law, how many would obey it?  Are you really going to argue that people would obey the law in equal measure with or without the presence of law enforcement?

Well, let's look at the behavior of those for whom there is no consequence for breaking the law.  Cops are farking corrupt as hell, thieving and raping and murdering the people whom they are supposed to protect and serve.


So you agree that absence of consequences leads to worse behavior then?
 
2017-01-11 12:46:45 PM  

IvanTheSilent: What, is the Obvious tag off somewhere getting beaten by a cop in riot gear?

Bertuccio: Something that happens every week is an isolated incident?

I guess it doesn't matter if they think they're getting a raw deal, or thing it makes it hard to do their job by not killing people, as long as they stop.

Week?  Try day.  We're 11 days in, and so far 30 Americans, tallied by name, have been killed by law enforcement.  The most egregious (in my opinion,) was on the 9th when a 2 year cop was speeding on the left side of a one way road in the wrong direction, no lights or sirens, and killed a woman.  The local chief says it might take 7 to 10 days to complete the accident report, at which time they'll hand it off to the prosecutor to begin the process of investigation.

http://www.wvgazettemail.com/news/20170109/woman-in-charleston-police-​collision-dies-officers-name-released-

/Reserve deputy
//Really farking tired of other assholes wearing my uniform and the few of us who are legitimately good a bad name


No offense but WHY are you a deputy (reserve or otherwise)?  You're obviously a good guy and even acknowledge by your own statement above that good guys are in the minority:  you can't be popular with your fellow officers.
 
2017-01-11 12:47:41 PM  

jshine: AdmirableSnackbar: jshine: if people knew with certainty that there was no consequence for breaking the law, how many would obey it?  Are you really going to argue that people would obey the law in equal measure with or without the presence of law enforcement?

Well, let's look at the behavior of those for whom there is no consequence for breaking the law.  Cops are farking corrupt as hell, thieving and raping and murdering the people whom they are supposed to protect and serve.

So you agree that absence of consequences leads to worse behavior then?


Yes, so I'm wondering why you're the only one ITT bringing up the idea of dismantling police entirely.  The rest of us are trying to demand accountability and rule of law among police officers and all you can do is concern troll away at our demands.
 
2017-01-11 12:47:52 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: jshine: This text is now purple: jshine: On the one hand I agree: the police do have a lot of work to do, and they bear the majority of the responsibility for establishing and maintaining a good working relationship with their host community (and will bear the majority of the burden if they fail).

...but on the other hand, there is, I think, a minimal responsibility incumbent on all of us to recognize that most police officers are not monsters and just want to do their job, collect a paycheck, and maybe do some good along the way.  It's impossible to reach a favorable, mutual outcome if one side is completely determined to hate the other side.

Is it unreasonable to ask the normals to not cover for the monsters?

Because I'm left with one of two conclusions:
1. There are so many monsters that the normals are afraid to speak out.
2. The normals are unwilling to speak out.

In either case, the monsters win the day.

No, it's not unreasonable, and that's something that police forces need to be far better at dealing with.

It would help if people like you started demanding that kind of accountability instead of whining at the people who demand that kind of accountability.


cdn.meme.am

I have no problem with demanding accountability from the police, and in threads dealing with specific cases, I try to be very even-handed about it based on the available facts.

...but in this meandering thread about police generally, there's room to (legitimately) criticize both sides.
 
2017-01-11 12:48:35 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: The shame is this issue cannot be addressed nor correctly diagnosed without running afoul of perceived racism by moderators.

I pray for our police, EMTs, firefighters and all emergency personnel .. they are the front line targets in a war to upend America, and that war cannot be discussed honestly



It can't be discussed honestly because it only exists in your head.
Try to understand and internalize the following sentence: THE VIOLENT CRIME RATE HAS BEEN GOING DOWN FOR 20 YEARS.

The US hasn't seen a lower rate since the early 1970s.
It is half of what it was in the mid-1990s.
 
2017-01-11 12:48:40 PM  

AeAe: A big reason why a lot of people have negative perceptions of cops is because they cover for the scumbags.


QFT.

Not all cops are actively bad - ie. murdering, stealing, framing people, etc.  But when you, as a "good" cop, don't do anything about the actively bad ones, you are, in effect, condoning those bad actions, and are now a "bad" cop AFAIC.

Police your own, and maybe people will stop assuming you are all bad.
 
2017-01-11 12:48:44 PM  

jshine: ...but in this meandering thread about police generally, there's room to (legitimately) criticize both sides.


Agreed, we should criticize both the corrupt cops and the "clean" cops who look the other way or cover up the actions of the corrupt cops.
 
2017-01-11 12:48:55 PM  

AeAe: RJReves: AeAe: All cops are scumbags. Authoritarian assholes that get a hard-on when they assault or kill blacks and other minorities. I piss on cops.

The vast majority of police officers are good people doing a very difficult and unappreciated job.

--
That may be, but when they cover for bad cops - those cops that abuse people and the system - are they still "good" cops? I say 'no'. A big reason why a lot of people have negative perceptions of cops is because they cover for the scumbags.


I agree the esprit de corps needs to go. But it is found in professionals across the board.

Don't get me started on doctors.

My Honeybunch died cuz of them. So did my Grandma, who raised me after my mom got busted trying to rob that grocery store with a lighter shaped like a gun.

good times and fond memories
 
2017-01-11 12:50:12 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Robocops are the solution.  Properly programmed, they will be highly resistant to corruption.


Sure, until some wiseguy asks one to compute pi, and they all freeze up at the same time...

/or, more likely, they get hacked by some 15 year old for the lulz
 
2017-01-11 12:50:13 PM  
I don't understand why we want to make policing more complicated than it should be. If you want to be a police officer it should be expected that your life hold no greater meaning than those you serve and protect. (that is why you get the honors if you die in the line of duty) You wanted the job, no one made you. It is a fairly dangerous occupation that has the risks of you getting shot, stabbed, run over, punched, and insulted.  All of which you accept when you sign up.(that is why you get the honors if you die in the line of duty) Your job is to enforce the law with the utmost honor and integrity. (that is why you get the honors if you die in the line of duty) The rigors of the job should be explained and proper mental and emotional awareness should be a cornerstone of the training. Allowing one to leave their profession without stigma so as to not overstay their effectiveness.

/love cops,EMTs/Firemen
//We don't support them in the right ways all the time.
 
2017-01-11 12:50:21 PM  
They couldn't catch the guys who mugged me -- despite me giving them the phone numbers they dialed when they stole my phone.

They won't catch the person who cloned my credit card this Sunday and had a $100 pizza party on my account.

But they sure can write speeding tickets, you betcha.

/faith in cops just went to zero
 
2017-01-11 12:50:23 PM  

jshine: f29d6h: Wow the comment section of the actual article is horrible.... I'm disheartened to find even more of it here.

People really hate the cops now.  That's just too bad.

Indeed.  There are some bad cops who have done terrible things, and too often they do escape justice.  ...but the police are also the only thing that stand between civilization and anarchy.  Take away law enforcement altogether and we'd be living in something like Somalia, where it's every man for himself.

For better or worse, the police are a necessary element of society and they are here to stay.  Simply indulging in the Two Minutes Hate isn't going to solve anything.


Street gangs employed directly by the state are less than 200 years old...
 
2017-01-11 12:50:32 PM  

WTP 2: wait until the blacks find out that they are more likely to be killed by other blacks...what will they do then ??



They'll do the same thing whites did when we found out we are more likely to be killed by other whites.
 
2017-01-11 12:50:43 PM  

RJReves: AeAe: RJReves: AeAe: All cops are scumbags. Authoritarian assholes that get a hard-on when they assault or kill blacks and other minorities. I piss on cops.

The vast majority of police officers are good people doing a very difficult and unappreciated job.

--
That may be, but when they cover for bad cops - those cops that abuse people and the system - are they still "good" cops? I say 'no'. A big reason why a lot of people have negative perceptions of cops is because they cover for the scumbags.

I agree the esprit de corps needs to go. But it is found in professionals across the board.

Don't get me started on doctors.

My Honeybunch died cuz of them. So did my Grandma, who raised me after my mom got busted trying to rob that grocery store with a lighter shaped like a gun.

good times and fond memories


What I meant to say is: the Boys Club mentality is never going away. It has been here longer than the written word.
 
2017-01-11 12:51:15 PM  

jshine: This text is now purple: jshine: On the one hand I agree: the police do have a lot of work to do, and they bear the majority of the responsibility for establishing and maintaining a good working relationship with their host community (and will bear the majority of the burden if they fail).

...but on the other hand, there is, I think, a minimal responsibility incumbent on all of us to recognize that most police officers are not monsters and just want to do their job, collect a paycheck, and maybe do some good along the way.  It's impossible to reach a favorable, mutual outcome if one side is completely determined to hate the other side.

Is it unreasonable to ask the normals to not cover for the monsters?

Because I'm left with one of two conclusions:
1. There are so many monsters that the normals are afraid to speak out.
2. The normals are unwilling to speak out.

In either case, the monsters win the day.

No, it's not unreasonable, and that's something that police forces need to be far better at dealing with.


This at least, we agree on.
 
2017-01-11 12:51:26 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: RJReves: MrEricSir: Maybe stop murdering people?

It isn't that hard, trust me. I've gone my entire life without murdering a single person and I've put zero effort into it. Stop whining about it.

Most police officers haven't killed anyone either. The vast majority haven't.

Maybe the slackers just haven't had the right opportunity yet.


Oh, just stfu.
 
2017-01-11 12:51:33 PM  

The more you eat the more you fart: f29d6h: Wow the comment section of the actual article is horrible.... I'm disheartened to find even more of it here.

People really hate the cops now.  That's just too bad.

They earned their reputation.  Only they can fix it.


Yeah but far too much of that reputation is shaped by the media.  Hence the reason the police had a completely lop-sided view when it came to the survey questions/responses.

They have earned a bad reputation, but they have so little control over that reputation, especially when they're protecting people that hate them.  We're only shown the bad stuff that happens, and that isn't right.

We've tasked humans with protecting other humans, and humans are not flawless.  If every single one of us had a media outlet following us around and airing every 'bad' thing we did, we'd all be seen as monsters.

There are definitely bad cops, and I would never deny that... because they're human.  I just think we need to shine a light on more of the good things they do.  They already have enough of the world bearing down on their shoulders every day without feeling like even MORE of the US population hates them.
 
2017-01-11 12:52:07 PM  

IndyJohn: Is this supposed to be a bad thing?


It doesn't say they've changed them for the better.  More importantly they're cops so the only thing their training tells them could possibly be the answer to any issue is to harden up and get more aggressive and violent.
 
2017-01-11 12:53:17 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: jshine: AdmirableSnackbar: jshine: if people knew with certainty that there was no consequence for breaking the law, how many would obey it?  Are you really going to argue that people would obey the law in equal measure with or without the presence of law enforcement?

Well, let's look at the behavior of those for whom there is no consequence for breaking the law.  Cops are farking corrupt as hell, thieving and raping and murdering the people whom they are supposed to protect and serve.

So you agree that absence of consequences leads to worse behavior then?

Yes, so I'm wondering why you're the only one ITT bringing up the idea of dismantling police entirely.  The rest of us are trying to demand accountability and rule of law among police officers and all you can do is concern troll away at our demands.


Are you familiar with the concept of a "negative control" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_control#Negative )?  I'm an scientist/engineer by training (engineering PhD working in research), and I suppose it's caused me to apply the concepts of scientific studies in my day-to-day life.  Meh.

To be sure, that's entirely a "thought experiment"; dismantling the police entirely is not a realistic proposal, nor one that I've seen advocated anywhere.
 
2017-01-11 12:54:04 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: jshine: ...but in this meandering thread about police generally, there's room to (legitimately) criticize both sides.

Agreed, we should criticize both the corrupt cops and the "clean" cops who look the other way or cover up the actions of the corrupt cops.


And the people who contribute gems like this:

AeAe: All cops are scumbags. Authoritarian assholes that get a hard-on when they assault or kill blacks and other minorities. I piss on cops.

 
2017-01-11 12:55:03 PM  

jshine: ...but on the other hand, there is, I think, a minimal responsibility incumbent on all of us to recognize that most police officers are not monsters and just want to do their job, collect a paycheck, and maybe do some good along the way.  It's impossible to reach a favorable, mutual outcome if one side is completely determined to hate the other side.


There are numerous things that need to change about the way we police ourselves (community policing, less aggressive tactics, separation of financial incentives, better systems of performance evaluation) in order to make the agencies come into line with what a civilized society should expect, but there's only one way to restore public confidence in police forces in this country:

Stop hand-waving away misconduct, and start prosecuting every offense by police to the fullest extent of the law.  No more benefit of the doubt.  No more blue line.  Community and federal oversight, with real, serious consequences for officers who abuse authority, use excessive force, railroad people, or violate their rights, and a duty for officers to hold one another accountable for misconduct.  Even being impolite to non-aggressive suspects should come with repercussions and discipline for cops.  "Under color of authority" needs to be a serious intensifier that is liberally applied to minor crimes committed by police, and "accessory" for those police who see or know and do nothing.

We're way past the point where improving police behavior and reducing negative incidents alone is going to be effective.  Bad seeds need to be scared to ever join police forces in the first place, and the existing officers need to be able to police their own ranks without fear of ostracism.  It's the only way to fix things.

Service first.  Then comes respect.

/never gonna happen
 
2017-01-11 12:55:45 PM  
The real problem is that when a cop commits a crime (up to and including murder) they get off scott-free 99% of the time.

THAT'S why we don't trust them. They can do whatever they want, and the rest of the force will lie and cover-up to save them.

So, here's a solution: actually hold cops accountable for their actions, and maybe after a few decades we can get back to where we used to be.
 
2017-01-11 12:57:18 PM  

jshine: AdmirableSnackbar: jshine: ...but in this meandering thread about police generally, there's room to (legitimately) criticize both sides.

Agreed, we should criticize both the corrupt cops and the "clean" cops who look the other way or cover up the actions of the corrupt cops.

And the people who contribute gems like this:

AeAe: All cops are scumbags. Authoritarian assholes that get a hard-on when they assault or kill blacks and other minorities. I piss on cops.


AeAe is clearly emotional on the subject but his sentiment is understandable based on the behavioral pattern of police.  That's the perception of police based solely on the behavior of police.  Change the behavior and change the perception.  I understand you don't like that he said it, but you can't really criticize him for his sentiments because they are grounded in reality.
 
2017-01-11 12:58:09 PM  

f29d6h: Wow the comment section of the actual article is horrible.... I'm disheartened to find even more of it here.
People really hate the cops now.  That's just too bad.


No it's not too bad, it's friggin' horrible.

Authoritarians though, will blame the populace and not the authorities they worship for this problem, and it will continue to exasperate itself.  Nobody trusts cops now, and they're right not to.  The police in my community are from out of town and they act like it.  It's become a predatory relationship where you can't trust them.

Lemme tell you a story... last year one of my relatives went into anaphylactic shock and we had to call 911.  An ambulance arrives along with a patrol car.  While we're all trying to maintain our composure as the medical responders worked on her, the cop stomped around our house on the hunt for "paraphernalia".  This continued even after the epipen worked and she was back on her feet heading out to the ambulance.

I actually had to tell him "ok we're all leaving now to head to the hospital, can you come on out so I can lock up?"  Not a word from this arse.  No eye contact, no acknowledgement of our existence other than as obstacles in his hunt for whatever possible contraband we may have had in our home in plain sight.

And I'm lilly white.  I can't even imagine how these interactions go in a black household.  Actually no wait I can, because they get reported on when someone in the house calls for a medical emergency and a dog or kid ends up getting gunned down for some bizarre reason.

But that's my fault, I guess I should be more understanding?
 
2017-01-11 01:00:04 PM  

RJReves: AeAe: All cops are scumbags. Authoritarian assholes that get a hard-on when they assault or kill blacks and other minorities. I piss on cops.

The vast majority of police officers are good people doing a very difficult and unappreciated job.


This would be true if and only if those good cops were free to intervene and arrest the bad apples on their forces.  But they're not.  Insular police culture and the blue wall of silence turns ALL of the good cops into bad cops.  Cops who don't toe the line are ostracized and fired.

 
2017-01-11 01:00:31 PM  
A majority of police officers believe that recent deaths of black Americans at the hands of police are isolated incidents, they say that those high-profile killings have made their jobs more difficult, and they think that protesters are biased against law enforcement.
Isolated incidents citizen, move along!
More difficult in that you can't just apply force indiscriminately anymore?
Why are they biased? Is this coming from nowhere or is something happening that is causing this bias?

A Pew Research survey of almost 8,000 police officers released Wednesday found that men and women in uniform have changed their approach to their jobs in response to the string of fatal encounters between black people and law enforcement.
Officers should change their approach and maybe not apply indiscriminant force?
They also are much less likely than the general public to believe that those high-profile deaths, which have drawn attention to racism and spurred the Black Lives Matter protest movement, are signs of broader problems in the criminal justice system.
Then why the Fark are Black people protesting?
Why is a black man lying on the ground with his arms in the air getting shot by police? Oh I forgot, "Isolated Incidents".

Among those police officers surveyed, 86 percent told Pew that they believe the fatal incidents have made their jobs more difficult, while 93 percent say police are now more concerned about their safety as a result. Seventy-five percent said they believe that interactions between black residents and law enforcement have become more tense.
Made more difficult in that you can't apply force indiscriminately. Is the only way you can do your job is to assault everyone?
Your more concerned about your safety after people are learning about the systemic racism and assaults perpetrated?
Relations are more tense? I wonder why?

Seventy-six percent of those surveyed also say they are now more reluctant to use force when appropriate because of the attention to the incidents, while 72 percent said they are more reluctant to stop and question someone they believe seems suspicious.
More reluctant to use force? I guess indiscriminant force is frowned upon?
Are you stopping the person because black people are suspicious, or because they are doing something while black?Do you treat Blacks the same as Whites?

In addition to the change in behavior, the survey found that police officers doubt the intentions of the protesters who have led demonstrations in response to the killings. Sixty-eight percent of officers surveyed said protesters are "to a great extent" motivated by "anti-police bias," but just 10 percent view the demonstrators as "motivated by a genuine desire to hold police accountable for their actions," according to Pew.
STFU and get back in line Minorities!
Why in the hell is the "anti-Police bias" there to start with?Is it just a whole black thing that they distrust police or do they have a legitimate issue? And why the fark is it only isolated to Blacks?

Two-thirds, or 67 percent, of law enforcement officials surveyed also said they believe the deaths are isolated incidents, while 31 percent said they signal larger problems. Among the general public, those numbers are flipped: 39 percent say they are isolated events, compared to 60 percent who say they are signs of a broader problem.
"Isolated incidents"!See above
The Police have a different opinion than the general populace?  I wonder why?  Maybe they should start to listen and communicate with general populace rather than say "Move Along Citizen!"
 
2017-01-11 01:01:03 PM  
Hobochili
It is a fairly dangerous occupation that has the risks of you getting shot, stabbed, run over, punched, and insulted.  All of which you accept when you sign up

It's not the most dangerous profession in America, but of the dangerous professions it's far and away the best compensated (with public recognition to boot)

People don't gush over what heroes roofers are, but we all have a shelter to live and work in thanks to them.
 
2017-01-11 01:01:59 PM  

Z-clipped: Stop hand-waving away misconduct, and start prosecuting every offense by police to the fullest extent of the law. No more benefit of the doubt. No more blue line.


I agree.  ...and there are recent cases where, IMHO, the cop should be in prison.  E.g., the Philando Castile case, where the cop simply shot a person who was peacefully sitting in his car during a traffic stop.

It's not my intent to blindly white-knight the police, but on the other hand, threads like this tend to lack any moderating voice.  I could have come in and posted any hateful opinion of police and it would be completely accepted.  For that reason, IMHO, too many posters seem to gravitate toward the extreme position of all cops are evil and deserving of contempt.  But that is not accurate and it is not productive.
 
2017-01-11 01:02:51 PM  

nijika: f29d6h: Wow the comment section of the actual article is horrible.... I'm disheartened to find even more of it here.
People really hate the cops now.  That's just too bad.

No it's not too bad, it's friggin' horrible.

Authoritarians though, will blame the populace and not the authorities they worship for this problem, and it will continue to exasperate itself.  Nobody trusts cops now, and they're right not to.  The police in my community are from out of town and they act like it.  It's become a predatory relationship where you can't trust them.

Lemme tell you a story... last year one of my relatives went into anaphylactic shock and we had to call 911.  An ambulance arrives along with a patrol car.  While we're all trying to maintain our composure as the medical responders worked on her, the cop stomped around our house on the hunt for "paraphernalia".  This continued even after the epipen worked and she was back on her feet heading out to the ambulance.

I actually had to tell him "ok we're all leaving now to head to the hospital, can you come on out so I can lock up?"  Not a word from this arse.  No eye contact, no acknowledgement of our existence other than as obstacles in his hunt for whatever possible contraband we may have had in our home in plain sight.

And I'm lilly white.  I can't even imagine how these interactions go in a black household.  Actually no wait I can, because they get reported on when someone in the house calls for a medical emergency and a dog or kid ends up getting gunned down for some bizarre reason.

But that's my fault, I guess I should be more understanding?


Talk about making an already dire situation that much worse.  I genuinely mean it when I saw I'm sorry you had to deal with that.
 
2017-01-11 01:03:01 PM  

mrsleep: .001 of all arrests ends in a death, .0003 end in the death of a black person.

Not even enough to be considered statistically significant.

But hey, the criminals are getting what they want
"Seventy-six percent of those surveyed also say they are now more reluctant to use force when appropriate because of the attention to the incidents, while 72 percent said they are more reluctant to stop and question someone they believe seems suspicious."

Ooo, yeah, bring up Micheal Brown, the gentle giant who got shot while fighting with a cop. If you still buy that malarkey, you should dig up the witness reports, hands up don't shoot was bullshiat.


Yes, deaths are rare.  BUT, they're just one outcome of a larger bad policing strategy.  All the unnecessary/excessive beatings, harassment, stops, no-knock radis, etc. are problems as well, and if obsessing about just the deaths causes a reduction in the rest of the bad cop stuff, I'm OK with that.
 
2017-01-11 01:03:22 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: Zeb Hesselgresser: AdmirableSnackbar: Interesting how the A.) small government conservatives are perfectly OK with agents of the state summarily killing B.) citizens for minor offenses with no repercussions.

And by interesting I mean what the fark is wrong with them that they support those actions?

I suspect the population of A.) is roughly equal to the population of B.)

In other words, unless your straw man can type, you're going to be disappointed when you don't get an answer.

You seem to be able to type, so please, provide an answer. Why do you and your friends always end up siding with police when they shoot someone?


I see, you're one of those world is black and white, broad brush painting, you're either with us or against us types.  Good luck to you.
 
2017-01-11 01:03:59 PM  
RJReves: I am going to say it.

Cop hatred is just racism turned sideways. Hating a "class of people" simply because they are in that class.


No, it's not:  people don't choose their race;  people choose to become cops and, unfortunately, the type of people who choose to become cops nowadays are overwhelmingly bullies and violent sociopaths. 

I find it much more satisfying to hate people on an individual basis.
That works too.
 
2017-01-11 01:04:08 PM  
The not-black guy who murders several at the Fort Lauderdale airport goes to the ground and is taken into custody alive ... BUT the black guy who might have had a weapon (it was dark at the time) and who might have been reaching for it (or he might have been reaching for his wallet) gets blown away without hurting anyone.

Boo-hoo-hoo. Stop killing unarmed people, their pets, their children. I know you just want to get home safely, Mr. Policeman, but so does the schmuck you stopped.
 
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