hows this any different then when a crowd of iraqis killed those mercs, then we bombed an entire city killing hundreds.we were judging, and MURDERING people for the actions of a few. i dont care what anyone sais to justify what we did, it was wrong. we havent learned a GOD DAMN THING from isreal, violence doesnt end violence, it just multiplies it, every time we kill some iraqi, he had a family and friends, think they are gunna join our side or the enemy? mass murder doesnt justify more mass murder.

this is gunna sound cheesy but watch the movie "swordfish" it has a lot of hollywood crap dialog and special effects, but really pay attention to the parts about terrorism and deception, it wasnt that far off.

All this anti-Arab sentiment and talk of nuking the masses simply reaffirms that this country is full of heartless scumbags that make the terrorists look like pansies.

YOU PEOPLE SUCK! PLEASE DON'T BREED!

Just curious, but are those burnt bridge corpses identifiable? I'm just skeptical as to if they are americans or not, since you could hang any charred dead guy from a bridge and call it whatever you want.

LESBIAN

Actions of a FEW?

Are you kidding? Did you see any worry in those american faces?

Worry that what they were doing was wrong?

Worry that maybe they shouldn't be using Saddam's former prison for rape and torture?

Worry that they might be caught?

I didn't. They seemed to be pretty damned pleased with themselves.

Their ignorance of their current political position is beyond words.

This was not a few people being assholes. This is the effect arming immature kids to the teeth, dropping them into a warzone with no exit strategy, brainwashing them into fury through lies and manipulation, and surrounding them on all sides by a hostile populace, and of dehumanizing a people by lumping them all together with those responsible for 9/11.

My outrage meter is so farking broken....

This should have the farking [OBVIOUS] tag. Ignorant farking morons.

I'm sure this will be lost in the flamewar, but...

I'd just like to point out that those of you blithly chanting "not in my name" in response to this incident should pause and think a moment.

The soldiers pictured in the photos are asshats. Plain and simple. Any honorable servicemember would almost certainly say the same thing. For example, see this take.

I think that no matter *what* your viewpoint on Bush and the war is, the only appropriate thing for an American to say here is:

"Not in our name."

The creepiest thing about that image is with the cloak and the bag on his head, the guy looks like a black klansman.

Islam is no different than christianity or judaism, it's actually based on both.
It's the islamic fundamentalists that twist the religion to fit their barbaric world view, they believe that the world should live according the old ways, the religious laws written centuries ago word by word.

They don't hate you for your freedom, they hate you because they are being taught to do so since before they could walk. They learn to see you as the 'great satan', an enemy of Islam, that God himself orders them to fight you to the death and if they die fighting you they become holy warriors and they get to party in heaven.
This mentality belongs to the dark ages, not in the 21th century. They hated you long before the war in iraq, ask anyone who visited an arab country in the last 30 years.

The way I see it is were supposed to be the white hats, the good guys, therefore we have to play by different rules. We hold ourselves and are held to a higher standard of conduct than the third world.
The problem is that we leave the prisoners in the care of kids barley old enough to shave, untrained in corrections and expect them to act like professional, compassionate adults. We are often disappointed with the result.
Like all stupid things we do, it leaks out and is judged by the world who, despite their own skeletons, seem to judge us on a different scale.

War is hell

Nordolio
This is the effect arming immature kids to the teeth, dropping them into a warzone with no exit strategy, brainwashing them into fury through lies and manipulation, and surrounding them on all sides by a hostile populace, and of dehumanizing a people by lumping them all together...

Sounds kinda like black/white relations in the USA, huh?

This flamewar is boring me

oooh, a double post???

DREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW......

I bwoke it!

Mackerel-97

Glad I could help:)
/grumbles as an airplane farks up the show

Can we officially compare Iraq to Vietnam now? In Vietnam, there was a similiar breakdown of discipline, due to poor leadership, lots of deaths of US soliders, doubts about why we were over there, and a complete abscene of any idea when the hell we would leave-just like in Iraq now.

(Oh, and is Fark Farked? This is the third time I've tried to post this comment.)

Based on the many comments in this thread that are supportive of torture and mis-treatment of prisoners, I fear they don't just reflect "the actions of a few" but the feelings of many.

i'm a uniter not a divider, mission accomplished, the earth is flat

the human race is f*cked up.

I wrote: Do I like everything that right-wing Xtians do? Hardly. But I don't see them flying any planes into skyscrapers.

AllanHowls: No, they jsut shoot doctors and bomb abortion clinics and Olympic gatherings. Oh, and have you ever heard of Northern Ireland?

First of all, what percentage of Xtians shoot doctors or support those who do, compared to the percentage of Muslims who commit terrorism or support those who do?

Second, "Olympic gatherings"? You mean, like the
1972 Olympics in Munich?

Third, Northern Ireland has been relatively peaceful lately. But how much were "The Troubles" really based on religion, and how much on getting England out of Ireland? Not that this justifies the terrorism of the IRA one iota. Incidentally, given that
the IRA had well-known connections with the PLO, I guess one could say that they weren't all that picky about who worshipped which god.

-You heard it here first

It's officially over. Any hope we may have had for this Iraq thing to end well is now gone.

Anytime the terrorists run short of recruits, all they have to do is print up a few more flyers with these pictures on them, and there'll be no shortage...

"Never have so few screwed up so much for so many..."
~The ghost of Winston Churhill

I can sum up why the middle east hates us... Iran, 1953.

After WWII, when NATO was formed, we, the US, became staunch allies with the UK. And NATO perceived communism as the greatest threat to freedom.

Now, Iran, in 1950, had a nationalist movement in which they took control of the Anglo-Iranian oil company. 51% of this company was owned by the Brittish government. In addition, they were getting oil for basically nothing as they treated Iran as a colony.

So, how does the US get involved? Simple. After the nationalization of the Anglo-Iranian oil company, the Brittish are of course furious. In addition, at this same time, the commies crossed the 38th paralell into south Korea starting the Korean war, which the UN took an active interest in.

Now, here we are, the US, getting involved with an east vs west thing (cold war). And the Brittish are gearing up to fight in Iran. So, what do we do, we offer to help our good buddies out by influencing events in Iran. This was viewed as helping our relations with the UK, making NATO look strong, and attacking communism (even though Iran wasn't communist, there was a huge fear the USSR would make it into a communist state as they had to 10 other countries in the span of 5 years).

So, the CIA and MI6 sponsor a coup in Iran, after some bumbling, it works. Walla, we become hated in Iran, as this coup overthrew their hugely popular PM who had just convinced the nation they didn't need any international influence (and coincidentally, Iran viewed the US as a great nation until that moment).

So, long story short, we started meddling in the affairs of middle eastern nations (for the oil of course) and over 50 years you see where we are.

-You heard it here first

It's officially over. Any hope we may have had for this Iraq thing to end well is now gone.

Anytime the terrorists run short of recruits, all they have to do is print up a few more flyers with these pictures on them, and there'll be no shortage...

"Never have so few screwed up so much for so many..."
~The ghost of Winston Churchill

2004-04-30 04:50:42 PM Mr_Fabulous: The saying that a mistake is worse than a crime is attributed to a statement that Napoleon's foreign minister Talleyrand made after Napoleon ordered the execution of a young duke of the Bourbon family:

"Sire, it is worse than a crime, it is a mistake!"

In the case of Mister Rumsfeld's occupation of Iraq, this famous old quote could be recycled weekly.

Good Lord, if these fellows really want to do what they say they want to do in Iraq, they have gone about it in a most curious fashion! The blundering has been stupendous. Are they utterly clueless about the consequences of their slap-dash methods, or are they deliberately trying to provoke every Muslim and Arab on Earth? What exactly are we witnessing here, slack-jawed, ignorant incompetence, or some kind of bloody-minded impulse to chaos?

At least once every week for the last year, I have had to say: "Wow."

oops, wrong image, but you get my point.

/* hangs head in shame

What is scary is the anti-war people seem to care more about this then the thousands of terrorists that are killing people around the globe.

These solders' assertions that they were not told how prisoners must be treated durign interrogations is absolute and total crap. I am a veteran and I recieved training on both the Geneva Convention requirements and the UCMJ and penalties for this type of activity. These soldiers' actions are clearly a violation of the Geneva accords. I agree that the things they did are clearly psychological in nature, no real physical damage is being done to these men, but the intent is to humiliate them. These folks, as well as the CIA agents who were DEFINITELY in the room but wouldn't have allowed themselves to appear on film for security reasons, should be held accountable and tried under the UCMJ for war crimes. In addition, their dissemination of photographic evidence of this activity to others constitutes treason against the United States of America. Realize the diplomatic harm that this does, as people will believe that this activity is sanctioned by the government. To assert that Army and Marine servicemen are unaware of the laws of war is ludicrous. I hope the President understands that he must be able to communicate to the military the gravity of this situation and its repurcussions. Arabs are not forgiving people by tradition, and regardless of the torture and beheading of Americans, this is the one incident they will talk about for the next seven decades.

That's okay, I now loathe the arab world because of the actions of a few!

/911

These soldiers are probably related to the Anti-Arab scumbags on here. They probably joined up just so they could do this kind of crap.

EXECUTE THE MOTHER farkERS!

Hahahaha, Reginleif, a little hot under the collar are you?
Flame on baby, I never said whether or not I agreed or disagreed with the topic. And yes, I do happen to think if the world didn't have all hate and war mongering, the it might actually be a livable place. There are other problems in the world besides who hates who, who is right or wrong, etc.

2004-04-30 05:05:01 PM ChiTownJack


What is scary is the anti-war people seem to care more about this then the thousands of terrorists that are killing people around the globe.

We're not talking about OTHER US MILITARY OPERATIONS AROUND THE GLOBE here, just Iraq!

and the arab world liked us when?

Yup, the neocons have it right. We need to kill all the arabs. And we need to kill all the demoncrats - they're nothing but traitors. And we need to kill all the french... and all the spanish, they're nothing but pussies. Probably should kill all the asians, too. And while we're at it, let's kill all the blacks and all the poor and all the russions and all the australians and canadians and all the feminists, too.

Here - let's make it easy. We'll just kill everyone who isn't a rich white american. No one else has any right to live on this planet... after all, we made it, so it's all ours. Kill anyone who disagrees. KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL!!! KILL them ALL!!! KILL!!!

/neocon

For chrissake, get a clue Bush-haters. It's not news. It's Blame-America.com!

Who else would you like to blame for American soldiers committing acts of torture?

BLAAAARGH!!!

How did this dissolve into Left v. Right, ad nasuem?

Everyone is appalled at these asshats' behavior, all the way from Bushie down to Teddy.

It's just farktastic. There should be a minimum IQ to get into the military. When you wear the uniform you represent the country. Even if you were dumb/depraved/indifferent enough to torture prisoners, WHY THE FARK WOULD YOU TAKE PICTURES?????

Wonderful. All our efforts to demonstrate that we are trying to do right by these people, compromised by All-American asshats. I'm sure Al-Jeezara will be playing this non-stop. It won't feed into existing propaganda that we're an immoral, depraved society or anything. No, not at all. It was awfully nice of six of our troops to put together Al-Queda's 2004 introductory video.

/happy that the possible penalties for most major infractions of military law includes "death"

/but generally pissed off

General_Jack_D_Ripper

Yeah execute them!! Great idea. I'm sure terrorists deserve a trial though right? Just not American soldiers

misuse of the word now in the title

Any time I see this kind of news or hear of some other Arab agency or Mullah or clown with a towel on his head protest of their treatment, I simply look at pictures of 9/11, or the bombing of the USS Cole or the Marine Barracks in Beirut or the US Embassy in Yemen or gassed Kurds lying in the street by the hundreds or security agents hanging from a bridge, burned beyond all recognition and I forget all about whining Arab protests and remember what it is that we are dealing with here.

ChiTownJack

What is scary is the anti-war people seem to care more about this then the thousands of terrorists that are killing people around the globe.

The operative word being "seem" which connotes subjective interpretation and bias on your part.

vzleon: we havent learned a GOD DAMN THING from isreal

I can always tell an asshat who's going to use Israel as an example of "barbarism" or whatnot by the way s/he misspells the name of the country.

You're right, though, in that I think we could stand to learn a lot from Israel.

First of all, they don't bother with politically correct crap. They racially profile their passengers freely. You've got an Arab name? You're pulled out of line and spoken to. They don't bother interviewing toddlers, nuns, or 80-year-olds just to make themselves look "fair." (And yeah, I can already hear the cries of, "But Richard Reid didn't have an Arab name!" Go look up "probability" in the dictionary and get back to me when you're ready to argue without strawmen.)

Second, when Israel listened to "world opinion" which came down hard against Israel when its citizens were being blown up at Passover seders, in pizzerias, and in strollers they did nothing. And the bombings continued. When Sharon decided that the safety of his fellow Israelis was more important than world opinion, he took off the gloves ... and, lo and behold, the bombings slowed way, way down.

Looks like the US government did a great job, just like usual.

IMHO,

Who gives a flying crap? The a-rab world can go suck a pigs butt for all I care.

/smears on the PBDE

Just one more that I'm sure we've all read before:

"He who fights monsters should be careful lest he thereby becomes a monster. And if thou gaze long into the abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

Good Luck, America.

Sorry, Vinegar Tom, but this is definitely a left and right issue. If we're not in a pointless war in Iraq, this doesn't happen.

If the Arab world didn't hate us enough already this is the last straw.

Hypocracy is the worst possible sin in a situation like this. We're over there trying to spread good will, trying not to treat all Iraqis as criminals, trying to teach our children at home that not all arabs are bad, and rebuild a relationship with the rest of the world and prove once and for all that we have the Iraqis' best interests at heart (we all remember the "free Iraq" speeches and the "elmination of a dictator" rhetoric). Then these jar-head assholes go and put us back to square one (or even farther back, like maybe square -250).

If you're a patriot who loves America as I do, you should not only be outraged, but ashamed by this. Flag waving and being glad this happened because of what a tiny minority of people did makes you a moron, not a patriot. We're already in a precarious position, and these dumbasses just moved our collective asses out of the frying pan and into the fire. You think they're going to stop shooting at our troops in Iraq now? Hell no. You think maybe this will fuel the terrorists' hatred and desire for revenge? I'm guessing yes. Humiliation is a powerful motivator.

I'm going to get flamed all to Hell for this, but I think these asshole troops should be tried by an Iraqi court and see what happens. They sure aren't going to believe in our system of justice, and there's no way court-martialing these guys is going to placate anybody. But we're America, right? We always get the final say. We try their criminals in our courts (or leave them to rot in a cage in Cuba), but also try our own criminals in our courts. Nobody over there is going to see that as justice, I'm afraid.

I don't know what an appropriate punishment would be for this. They've set back our actions in the Middle East by at least two years (since we invaded, anyway), and whatever tiny chunks of good will we were banking just disappeared forever. This war just went from bad to worse in an exponential way, and I'm guessing that Iraq's cousins in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Libya and the PLO just jumped in their cars and started heading for Baghdad.

Now we're not only arrogant, selfish, self-indulgent and greedy, but we're also astoundingly stupid and cruel as well. Nice job, guys. I'm sure the next soldier who catches a bullet fired by a housewife will thank you for your gestures of good will towards the Iraqi people.

ChiTownJack,

MILITARY JUSTICE!

SWIFT AND SURE!

But knowing our administration, if our soldiers wack a bunch of Canucks and they get off, then for sure these assholes will get off, maybe with a medal...

pontechango

Thanks for showing me my bias, you are a genius.

it is commonly referred to as the 80/20 rule and applies all over the place :) Am really glad to see people getting sick of the self righteous left, We've been sick of the SMARMY, inbred, holier-than-thou right since Tammy Faye's face first melted our retina many years ago :) It is nice to know we can all share somthing, even if it is just moral disgust at the direction our country in going.

BTW Fred Garvin so does strapping dynamite to yourself and entering a church or mosque... AS does sending a helecopter to shoot rockets into a police station or hostpital, that has not stopped any of the so-called civilized countries in the region...Iraq, Israel, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, US, GB, Russia, really hard to tell any of the participants apart anymore without a current program. You can however ALWAYS tell the EU countries, they have some fantasy solution proposed from the sidelines based on a fairy tale version of human nature. I must admit they do think outside the box quite often, and outside reality quite often as well but that is another issue entirely.
Charm School Valedictorian - WOW I thought my generalization was broad, offensive and un-politically correct, but I must take my hat off to you...