(picture of Quagmire)
"some crazy phrase from Quagmire"
[somthing funny about what he does in that show]
{note about happiness of Family Guy coming back}

I like how the lawyer said that the antifreeze would be diluted by the water. HEY ASSHAT, NEWS FLASH: DILUTED == NOT TOXIC. It's the amount she ingested that matters, and I'm pretty sure a few ice cubes isn't going to dilute it enough (in the amount of antifreeze I get the impression she was using) in a margarita to do that. The alcohol thing is correct though.

From the Merck Index for Ethylne Glycol: Absorbs twice its weight in water. It is miscible in alcohol, that may have something do with why you need to drink alkie when antifreeze is ingested.

/hey look, cocaine is in this thing!

hmmm, I'm dreaming up a hollywood script. Our hero has been tricked into drinking antifreeze. His only chance to survive, is if he can get and keep his blood alcohol level above .12 for three days straight.

I'm thinking maybe Keanu Reeves or Kurt Russel.

or Ashton. Whatever pays my bills.

First of all, it wasn't a friend. RTFA. It was her ex sister in law whom she'd been having problems with. Generally I don't trust drinks made by someone who is mad at me or has been in the recent past.

diggum

I agree with both of you. Here is what happens if I remember my biology right.

The liver tries to get rid of the glycerol (antifreeze) by changing it so to be easy for the kidney's to filter out. The problem is that the liver does this too fast and the glycerol crystalizes in your kidney's. With ethanol the liver does both at the same time so the glycerol is filtered out more slowly.

I am relativly sure that this is what happens. If anybody else knows anything feel free to correct me.

For those of you wondering how she couldn't tell that the anti-freeze was in the mix it is quite simple. Anti-freeze is very sweet (assuming she used regular anti-freeze instead of the safe for pets stuff that taste so bad that not even your dumb ass dog will drink it) and could easily be used another sweet drink unnoticed intill you wake up your sleeping friend on the couch 5 hours later throwing up and shiating everywhere.

macfrugal

His only chance to survive, is if he can get and keep his blood alcohol level above .12 for three days straight.

That is easy, just get a keg and an IV going. You could be wasted for a week on that setup.

Crosshair

I would agree with most of that, but I think since it's soluble in ethanol, the alcohol would prevent the crystallization (like dissolving salt in water), and would leave the body via kidneys.

You know, all you Farkers who says that woman's ugly really should go outside and take a look around. Sure, she isn't Rebecca Romijn, but she sure as hell ain't [insert description of some Smoking Gun mugshot].

Lostprophet
Miscible just means that it mixes with alcohol. That is, it doesn't form layers like oil and water which is non-miscible. It doesn't have anything to do with the toxicity.

biffman

2004-04-21 04:41:34 PM

He should have just stabbed her in the leg like that guy in the Slums of Beverly Hills, which is sadly the only good part of the entire movie.

I like the way the lawyer describes her, "She knew full well that four times the lethal dose would be safe. You don't understand the kind of raw erudition that we're dealing with here. Perhaps you are unaware of her best selling book, "The Joy of Poisoning Your Friends Without Killing Them" or of her substantial success on the lecture ciruit leading seminars on the topic. Please. To even suggest that this woman of God like intelligence and training was trying anything untoward is ludicrous."

Ethanol is also an antidote for methanol poisoning, as long as we're extolling the practical benefits of liquor.

Ricahrd "Iceman" Kuklinski is somewhere smiling.

LostprophetR63

Did I mention he's in Utah? and underage. And he doesn't have any legs. And he has a dog for a sidekick.

Lostprophet
Sorry bout that. Slow refresh.
Good job.
Actually ingesting ethanol with it usually only delays the symptoms. It is not the ethylene glycol itself that causes the problems but the various toxic metabolites (break down products) which cause acidosis, protein synthesis inhibition as well as calcium oxalates (which precipitate in the blood and organs causing all sorts of nastiness).
The symptoms are probably delayed when ingested with ethanol because both the breakdown of ethanol and ethylene glycol uses the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase. There is only so much of the enzyme to go around do it takes a while for it to work if there is a lot of substance for it to work on.

LostprophetR63

Thank you for the correction and for being so polite about it.

That sounds like possible way for the glycerol to leave the body. Mabee they happen at the same time? Anyone know for sure what happens???

CORN NUTS

Also, for calculating the lethal dose, I'm going to assume they are talking about the LD-50. Which half the people would survive(duh), add in the dilution and the ethanol, it's not too hard to see why she survived. Perhaps a bit lucky, but not rediculously so. Someone should call Prestone, setup a hotline like the Butterball hotline.

biffman

So are you best off to get drunk if you drink antifreeze or not???

macfrugal

Is the dog one of those whiskey carrying St. Bernards?

biffman

I got most of that. Being a lowly intern at a pharmeceutical company makes me bow to your knowledge, but I understand what you're talking about. But wouldn't the ethylene glycol wish to associate more with the ethanol than the dehydrogenase? As in the molecule complex of C2H6O2-XC2H6O makes it too big for docking at the active site to be achieved (X being some sort of number associated with the solvated form of the ethylene glycol)?

Hawat

So if that is true using the LD-50

Lethal dose with 50% survival rate. Divide by 4 times lethal dose. = 13.5% chance of survival.

Is this correct or was my biology class a complete waste of time???

yes, but he was mistrained and only allows redheaded women to access his whiskey. It'll give us a good excuse to bring in Julianne Moore or someone.

She can play an alcoholic ex-paramedic struggling to leave an abusive husband, played by tom Arnold.

Biffman has it mostly. The symptoms aren't delayed, but you are right about alcohol dehydrogenase working on both molecules. The AlcDehyd is about 10,000 more attracted to ethanol than ethylene glycol. The kidneys are able to filter the antifreeze unchanged without getting the oxylate crystals that cause kidney failure.
tony
(med student and has successfully treated two dogs with ethgly poisoning in my home)

macfrugal

BRILLIANT!

/pops open a guinness

Crosshair

I think biffman has the idea, check his profile and find out why I think that. I'm just more curious for my own knowledge.

macfrugal

The peak of the drama is when she needs to decide whether to take that last shot to help her deal with Tom Arnold (abusive or not) or give it to our hapless hero..

I'm with Queen Mushroom on this. Yeah, she's got that Driver's License Mugshot look to her, but that's because it IS a mugshot. She's not half as Eyikes as some of the pictures we've seen here.
And yeah... Claiming that you're so smart that you were carefully trying to injure her instead of kill her doesn't exactly sound like a stellar defense...

Mikacat

Nice, Heathers reference.

/what's your damage? did you have a brain tumor for breakfast?

Good question.
Actually it appears that the dehydrogenase does have a much higher affinity for the ethanol. Apparently an ethanol concentration of about 100mg/dl is what is ideal to have to drastically cut down on the toxic metabolites of ethylene glycol. And that is why doctors often will administer ethanol and monitor the blood level in some poisoning cases, as well as start dialysis.
Glycoaldehyde is formed due to the enzymatic action of the dehydrogenase then the liver breaks that down into glycolate, glyoxylate and the calcium oxylates which can precipitate.
Damnh, I feel like a drink now. Go figure.

I forgot what eight was for-

Someone had to say it, just suprised it took this long.

LostprophetR63 : exactly, it pits her husband induced alcoholism vs. her paramedic desire to help people. I smell an oscar.

Didn't read all the comments... Seriously, can't you TASTE antifreeze?

So if that is true using the LD-50

Lethal dose with 50% survival rate. Divide by 4 times lethal dose. = 13.5% chance of survival.

Is this correct or was my biology class a complete waste of time???

Crosshair, your biology class may not have been a complete waste of time, your math class on the other hand...

50 / 4 = 12.5...

Crosshair
Sorry I just noticed your question now.
I guess you've probably figured out that the answer is a resounding yes.
Hell it's always a good idea to always be a bit drunk as insurance against some inadvertant anti-freeze poisoning.

biffman

So you're saying there is a delay, but the dialysis will take care of the nasties before they get a chance to go through the kidneys? Because that stuff will gum up your system? Nice to see how that works, if that is indeed how it works. I'm a chemical engineer. I had to look up some of those words in my Merck, but I get the picture.

I think this is the first thread I've participated in that I actually felt smarter coming out of. I'm kinda gettin all warm and fuzzy. BTW, which company you work for? Just out of curiosity, you don't have to tell me.

macfrugal

I smell a teary acceptance speech, then someone (probably me) just running up to the mic screaming "I'M RICH, BIACH!"

Crosshair

I forgot to acknowledge your mention of politeness. There's no need/desire to be rude when scientific discussion is in progress. I think the other day some guy claimed my opinion on fuel cells was invalid because I mentioned I was a chemical engineer. You'd think I'd know SOMETHING on the subject, right?

Thanks Hesagram13

Pretty cool when you actually get to put it into practical use.
I'll stick with vodka for now.

Oops, that should be Hexagram13 of course.

(Boy, this vodka is good).

Hell it's always a good idea to always be a bit drunk as insurance against some inadvertant anti-freeze poisoning.

Smartest thing I've heard all day.

/wish I could drink at work
//hell, wish I could drink legally

Stupid criminals. "I refuse to answer any questions without an attorney present". That is how you do it. Then her lawyer can make up a story later, like the bottles were confused, improper storage, etc. Making a statement pretty well farks your case up all to hades.

queenmushroom, aren't you the one who was defending the practice of criticizing guys on weeners threads who have small weeners? I may have the wrong person, but if it was you, and you're defending a fairly ugly murderess as not being so ugly, I don't think I'm gonna take you very seriously..

Mindark

Crosshair, your biology class may not have been a complete waste of time, your math class on the other hand...

50 / 4 = 12.5...

Well that's that happens when you rush a post, and have had only 3 hours sleep. It also might explain why I have failed accounting 2 times.(Going on 3)

biffman

Thanks for all the info you brought to this thread.

Crosshair

Hey thank you too.
Like LostprophetR63 alluded to, it's nice participating in a thread where you don't feel dumber at the end of it.
Not that the flame wars are not all that unentertaining of course.

Cheers.

This story is so old. Why is it just making the news now?

Omaha is an f'ed up place dude.

Lil'spider
aren't you the one who was defending the practice of criticizing guys on weeners threads who have small weeners? I may have the wrong person, but if it was you, and you're defending a fairly ugly murderess as not being so ugly, I don't think I'm gonna take you very seriously..

No, that wasn't me, so your whole point seems to be moot. Besides! This woman isn't a boobies link. This is a mugshot. I challenge you to find someone who looks good in a mugshot. Also, this woman isn't a murderess. She's an attempted-murderess. As for fairly ugly? Nah, she's average. For Omaha standards, she's downright pretty.