"MayoBoy
13. In 1995 at the Oklahoma City Federal building was blown up by:

a. Slappy White
b. Spongebob Squarepants
c. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
d. Pasty white American guys

Sorry to hurt your feelings but alas the jury is still out on that one and dead men tell no tales. And you have to link it because McVeigh and little asshat whats his name were more than casually connected to Al Qaeda. Little Asshat whose still alive married a chick from the Basilan region of the Phillipines and I beleive she's connected with Abu Sayef. Also McVeigh served in Desert Storm and was motivated by the conflict between the USA and Iraq. He could have been paid off to kill himself in exchange for lifetime security for his family (delayed suicide bombing by state lethal injection). Anyhoo, Laurie Myrolie has written a lot on this. So basically you can remove that one. But hey, Columbine's on us if it makes you feel better. But big time terrorism? Brown guys from the Middle East/Asia Minor all the farkign way.

AnonymousGuy

I always laughed whenever somebody would call somebody else a "sheeple". Never thought that anybody could be so brainless as to follow somebody else's lead.

Then again, this is binnster we're talking about, so...


Hehe. Shutup AnonymousGuy, you cock.

It's time to stop fraking around
Let's drop a nuclear bomb on the ground

You will no long have the US around
To try to hunt those terrorist abound

Blow them up and set them free
Cause I don't give a shait you see

It's all about oil for free
So I can drive my SUV

We want you out!

So we'll cripple the process of getting you out!

setaanbomb

Can I use the NeoCon excuse that she's just trying to sell her book so it can't be believed a la Richard Clarke?

"habraham
Farkle34
This is classic guerilla warfare. The insurgents were trying to blow up police stations, sending a message to all Iraqis that if "cooperate" with the occupying Americans, you are a target. This is why they attack supply convoys driven by Iraqis, and other pieces of infrastructure operated by their conationalists. This is meant to cripple any progress the American will make in maintaining order."

And the USA will not leave no matter how much of this goes on. It's not Algeria where France had marginal interest. It's Iraq butted up to Iran, enemy number 1. Our government will not give up this fight no matter what. go ahead and start protesting. They'll shoot your ass before giving up. Trust me on this. It aint worth going again em on this.

Yeah. Shut up, Barjo- I mean AnonymousGuy, you cock.

/Follow me, follow you, AHA!

The problem with the WWIII references is that Bush and Ashcroft among others believe that every word of the Bible is fact and they have interpreted some of the passages, especially Revelations, to mean that war in the Middle-East will signal the rapture and the second coming of Jeebus.

Therefore, they love war and will do anything to destabilize the region as they think they are fulfilling a prophecy that will bring Jeebus back. Look at Bob Woodward's interviews with Bush... he says some crazy shiat. Hell, look at anyone's interviews with Bush. He thinks Jeebus wants him to be continuing his war(s).

Riiiiight, Timothy McVeigh was an Al Qaeda stooge. Let me guess, Lee Harvey Oswald was working for the Egyptian Islamic Jihad's "Secret Apparatus"

2004-04-21 09:59:43 AM HotWingConspiracy: Omega Ohm, like many American extremists, is laboring under the mistaken notion that the USA can conquer and pacify the Muslims. He is missing the obvious fact that each incursion by the USA multiplies the number of "Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40" many times.

This foolish and disastrous and escalating war is akin to bailing out the ocean with a bucket, but his ilk is nourished by fantasy and delusion. Clearly, the history of American intervention and Israeli experience in the last fifty years should make this obvious to anyone.

I keep hearing the question asked: "Can America establish a stable democracy in Iraq?"

Ask it differently: "Has Israel established a stable democracy in the Occupied Territories?"

The answer, of course, is "no."

So, the alternative is perpetual occupation, dysfunction, and low-level insurgency spreading throughout the region following on the heels of American "victories" that can never be consolidated, in countries that can never be pacified. Forever.

Of course, many Arabs/Muslims will be our stooges, and will so infiltrate the USA and Europe, and among them will be a certain percentage of moles who will engage in acts of "terrorism." Therefore, we embrace the violence, which means perpetual "terrorism" in our countries. Forever.

Forget your future. It is militarization, the police state, and high taxes. Forever.

Such is the logic of this war.

Have fun!

Difar:

Islamic extremists will and have INTENTIONALLY killed women, children, innocent non involved people simply to create terror... I am sure that while the perps of this attack may have unintentioally killed these particular children, intentional attacks are sure to follow...

Sadly that's true, but that's what extreme religious ideologies will do to people. I think the Palenstinians have a double dose of that because not only do they have the religious reward, but they're also people without a country. And it just so happens that the bit of land that Israel currently owns is land they used to call theirs.

But the thing is in war, and I count any occupation where there's still armed resistance as war, children and innocents are killed. Hell, US soldiers (who may or may not have been religious) killed children intentionally in Viet Nam. It's for this very fact that I prefer to see countries work stuff out diplomatically than go to war. It's always going to be more than the soldiers who die.

So basically, to say it's Islam that the problem is a cop out. It's humans living under extreme idealism that's the problem.

Of course they won't shoot to kill, just pacify. If you don't believe the western govt's haven't gamed this scenario you haven't been watching the price action on Taser stock. TASR. It fell back yesterday but was without a doubt the hottest issue in the stock market this last year. From 1 buck to $118 at the height, day before yesterday. Taser stock increased 118 fold in one year. They are all of a sudden selling a shiat load of Tasers, no?

Western governments are preparing to Taser your young energetic ass when/if the day comes and people start getting froggy in the USA and elsewhere in the west. you know like if the ANSWER/ANTI WORLD TRADE Fruitcakes starting gaining big time traction from joining a burgeoning cadre of anti war youth.

Farkle34: The world is dealing with the Deathcult. A group of people that value death above life is organized in Chechnya, Kashimir, Palestine, Nigeria, the Philippines, Uzbekistan and spreading. This Deathcult could care less about the life of a child or a woman for if it gets in the way or supports their cause of restoration of the Khilafah then they care not for it.

What's alarming is that people in Eruope and the United States, especially on the college campus, are supportive of these causes by defining them as "Freedom fighters". Basically at least 100 college professors wake up every morning telling themselves they hate President Bush MORE than they hate Usama Bin Laden.

While not intending to defend fundie christians I do not recall any of them using car bombs or aircraft to innocent people.

The most violent, nasty, and dangerous fundie Christian in the world in N. Ireland's Rev. Ian Paisley.

However, first of all, nearly all Christians think he's nuts. Second of all, his rhetoric is directed at the Catholic Church, which he claims is a false church, so it's more of an internal fight within Christianity. And finally, his rhetoric is considerably less violent and nasty than some of the stuff the less extreme clerics are spouting in the Middle East.

This is not to say that there are not Muslims out that strongly disagree with the extremists. However, for whatever reason, the extremists seem to have the pulpit and the power far too often.

Don't worry everyone, all this will end when we hand over authority to the Iraqis on June 30. Then we just pack up, go home, and leave behind peace and tranquility, rainbows and bunny rabbits. After that it's only a matter of time before the entire region is a nice big, friendly democracy giving away free oil to the rest of the world.

Difar53: Umm, how hot would the US and americans in general be with their foreign and internal policy being subject to the whims of countries a few thousand miles away? I don't think I would, and I would be pissed off if I knew the main reason a country was interested in me was because of my countries natural resources.

bradkanus: Well, the rest of the world sees the selective punishment given out(attack Iraq with no WMDs and leave NK alone) as a major cause for concern. If every 2-bit leader gets it into his mind that the best way to stop and attack by the US is to posess nukes, then a new arms race will start.

There have been countless attacks within Iraq, one in Spain, a few in other countries, the UK has stopped a few, and given that before 9/11 the only previous attack on US soil was 8 or 9 years before, saying that that is a sign of how well the Iraq war turned out is wrong.

Omega Ohm: I am sure there are a couple of quizzes going around on extreme fundamentalist muslim email lists with questions like:
Whose secretary of state said the death of 500 000 kids as a result of sanctions was a "price we think is worth it"?
A: France
B: The republic of Om
C: Moldovia
D: USA

Raicilla

You're such a moran. So France had "marginal" interest in Algeria? Have you ever read anything on Algeria? Algeria was the only colonial possession ever annexed by a European power. France considered Algeria to French soil, in the 1950s, it had over a million and a half French colonists there! The Algerians lost over a million people in fighting the French, but they eventually succeeded.

Watch this, learn something.

/I'm out, going to class

1)To the asshats that keep posting the "Mission Accomplished"
picture:
That banner was in reference to the mission of that
ONE PARTICULAR SHIP, not the overall mission.
2)Asshats taking political swipes (left or right)in a thread
discussing a tragedy such as this should be thrown off a cliff in a burlap bag.
Jerks.

Raicilla:

"And you have to link it because McVeigh and little asshat whats his name were more than casually connected to Al Qaeda."

Very true. Even more disturbing is the fact that McVeigh had military intellingence connections in his past. AND, that the ATF officers were warned that morning not to come into the office. Also, the first reports out of the building after the blast (live on CNN) were that rescue workers were evacuated because there were unexploded charges attached to columns in the basement. There's a lot left to be looked at as far as that bombing goes. The truth will probably never be known for certain.

MayoBoy: You can say or believe whatever you like. Unlike Clark, Jayna Davis is a reporter. So you can say their books are no different, however you'd have to massively ignore the fact that Davis and Clark are really two opposite sides of the spectrum.

I bought the Clark book. I'm buying the Davis book. I'm just wondering when Davis will get her 60 minutes exclusive.

Habraham
ME Cristian? HAAAAHaaaahaaa.... too funny. But you are right, religion is a universal problem. And you are also right that I'm over-simplifying when I am saying that Islam is the worst of the lot. Unfortunately this is not the place to be trying to really get to the bottom of the problem, no one will have the time or energy to read a more elaborate view.

But okay, I won't resort to simple Islam-bashing here, that is not for me to do. And I appreciate that you didn't directly came at me with all guns blazing, calling me a cock or whatever it is that some people think it's clever to say around here. So in return I'll try and be civil myself.

Can you agree with me though, that this is a problem that needs a lot of attention, especially in this day and age with an increased globalisation? As a westerner, I must admit I am a bit weary about an ever increasing number of people from the Muslim world living in our midst today. My Arabic friends are also a bit worried about all this, they fear they will be targeted for all the bad things some of their fellow former countrymen are doing.

I can see a scenario where those fears will come true, when people will tend to go back to what they know best and start hating each other over this polarized question that Islam is here in the west. I know that there are enough stupid and freightened people here that will seek an end to all foreigners living in our land when the shiat really hits the fan, and this is something I regard as very sad.

Sorry for maybe sounding a bit confused, but it's not easy to know what is right in this case. I know what is wrong though.

canyoneer --

Where both you and HFrog are mistaken is in the belief that there's an endless supply of terrorists to draw upon. This implies that all muslims are radical extremists and they're all ready to kill us. Which, by the way, contradicts y'alls previous claims of the peaceful Islamic religion. Either way, the pool isn't endless. It's large but far from infinite.

With defeatist attitudes such as yours, America would never have been founded. We would rolled over and crawled under a rock and submitted to perceived Soviet superiority in the cold war. In short, nothing would have ever been accomplished. Why? "It's too hard!" "We can't do it!" "We shouldn't even waste our time trying!" "There's too many!"

Bullshiat. We are quite capable of killing them all with or without the help of the defeatist surrender-monkey choir.

lokiza

think you brought up a valid point...why do countries want a nuclear program?

its the only thing that has proven to be a Marine repellent.

penguin83

Nice try, little buckaroo. And point 2 contradicts point one. So please do STFU.

Direct quote from Bush's speech on the carrier:

"In this battle, we have fought for the cause of liberty and for the peace of the world. Our nation and our coalition are proud of this accomplishment, yet it is you, the members of the United States military, who achieved it. Your courage, your willingness to face danger for your country and for each other made this day possible.

Because of you our nation is more secure. Because of you the tyrant has fallen and Iraq is free.

Operation Iraqi Freedom was carried out with a combination of precision and speed and boldness the enemy did not expect and the world had not seen before.

From distant bases or ships at sea, we sent planes and missiles that could destroy an enemy division or strike a single bunker. Marines and soldiers charged to Baghdad across 350 miles of hostile ground in one of the swiftest advances of heavy arms in history."

You can continue to claim that this is only speaking of that one ship, but you will be exposed as a liar and a willing propagandist.



Support our troops. Vote Kerry.

barjockey
Sorry. Don't know why it's funny, but it is. It's not really about you, per se. It's more like...these flame wars are so predictable that one can preemptively fling poo at someone you know is going to post. It would have been very funny with Raicilla, or bradkanus, or me, or any number of others as the butt of the joke. But it is extra funny with you, because you get so worked up about it.

holy shiat. only marginally topical, but surprising as hell...

isreal released Vanunu

Boinkers
Unfortunately this is not the place to be trying to really get to the bottom of the problem, no one will have the time or energy to read a more elaborate view.

This is not true.

lokiza --

Who was the most responsible for those sanctions and who abused them to make cash at the expense of the Iraqi civilians?

1. The UN
2. The US
3. Saddam


This one actually has two answers, they're 1. and 3.

And Peguin83:

Live and learn for Bush and co. In the future hang only thoroughy precise and exceedingly truthful jingoist propaganda in the background. I think the democrats do a decent job with that one... all Bill's disgraces were not simultaneously photo-ops and embarrassments.

"In this battle, we have fought for the cause of liberty and for the peace of the world. Our nation and our coalition are proud of this accomplishment, yet it is you, the members of the United States military, who achieved it. Your courage, your willingness to face danger for your country and for each other made this day possible.

True. The accomplishment was defeating Saddam.

Because of you our nation is more secure. Because of you the tyrant has fallen and Iraq is free.

Mostly true. Saddam was in hiding and could no longer threaten the United States. Iraq was free of his tyrrany.

Operation Iraqi Freedom was carried out with a combination of precision and speed and boldness the enemy did not expect and the world had not seen before.

From distant bases or ships at sea, we sent planes and missiles that could destroy an enemy division or strike a single bunker. Marines and soldiers charged to Baghdad across 350 miles of hostile ground in one of the swiftest advances of heavy arms in history."

All true. We defeated the Iraqi Army and took Baghdad with record speed and relatively light casualties.

We won the war. Big time. That mission was indeed accomplished. Our problems have come with the occupation, not the war.

WordUp
Ok, I confess...this is not the place where I am willing to take the time and effort and try to get to the bottom of the problem. At least not today

habraham: For some reason, I always think that "secret apparatus" refers to a vibrator. Way to much pron.

Omega Ohm: The problem is that there is an infinite supply of normal, everyday people in the middle east to draw upon. One of their friends or family gets shot, and you get people who think violence is the only option. Unless you are thinking genocide of the entire middle east is the answer, war/violence will not work. Which, as your post suggests is your attitude, which convieniently is the exact same attitude Mr OBL has. Kill one "terrorist" 2 more will spring up.

Take a look at the US revolution, had England been nice and treated the colonists fairly, the people who wanted to create america would have had a lot less support. Because England resisted, the colonists gained local(and French!) support.

Wayward2:

Very fine splitting of hairs there. Excellent. If I run for something, would you be my press secretary?

The enemy in Iraq, whether its foreign fighters or Iraqis, are willing to do things like this. They aren't worried about PR and civilian casualties. They just want to make us look bad. I don't know how you fight that without stopping to that level. These guys have nothing to lose, that's why they're so dangerous.

Man, everything I said would happen before this war started is happening. I wish I was wrong, but so far, I've been right on the money. This is going to get worse before (and if) it gets better. I really wish I was wrong.

Anyway, 20 dead children does not make me want to argue the merits of this conflict. Right now, no matter what side you own, it really doesn't seem to matter, does it?

Mercutio74

I have never said ISLAM was the problem. I have said islamic extremist or fundamentalist. As the largest religion on earth, the vast majority are as peace loving as you and I. They however seem to remain silent and not confront the extremists as a problem sect within their religion.

Bin Laden came from a rich and powerful family. Same with his higher lieutenants. Well educated, well financed...

The land Israel occupies is land won in a couple wars started by its Arab neighbors in an attempt to destroy Israel. Israel has a right to exist and defend itself. If the pasestinians would simply stop the bombing and negotiate a peaceful settlement it would happen. They nearly had it until Arafat at the last moment backed out.

habraham,

while in class ask the teach how to spell moron, cockbite.

This isn't Algeria. It isn't Vietnam. It's ground farking zero where eastern and western power and influence collide.

binnster, dukefluke

At least I have one.

/geez, the raising of discourse by liberals.

Anyway, back to important matters. Damn, agamoto, it took me a while to read that. That's quite a scenario. I don't think that detonating nuclear bombs under water would cause the destruction that you envision, though. But I'm not a rocket scientist, either, so I could be wrong.

Hannahman

Hell, look at anyone's interviews with Bush. He thinks Jeebus wants him to be continuing his war(s).

I've yet to see an interview where Bush even intimates this. Do you have an example to provide?

I'm not calling bullshiat on this or the McVeigh-al-Queda connection, but I sure would like to see some evidence.

Bladel...

It was just a quick list put together in 20 seconds of some events.

I like Omega Ohm's list of some extremist terrorist events. There are lots of extremists on all fronts, and not just Muslim extremists. But hopefully it will help people like Defar understand that these types of events have been occurring for a VERY long time.

Look at the Red Brigade, Shining Path, IRA, etc. as well.

Senaldun,

I hereby decree that anyone who posts in this thread with a message other than showing sympathy to those who died and their families is an asshat.

That is all

Does that go into effect after your post or with your post. Because, if it goes into effect starting with your post, well..........

justinexiii: Can you or anyone else link me to something that would substantiate the claim that Christopher Hitches was a consultant to the White House leading up to the Iraq war?

On Vanunu, He says, "I suffered here 18 years because I am a Christian ... if I was Jewish I wouldn't have this suffering and isolation.".

No dipshiat. You sufferred because you broke Israeli law.

lokiza --
"Omega Ohm: The problem is that there is an infinite supply of normal, everyday people in the middle east to draw upon. One of their friends or family gets shot, and you get people who think violence is the only option. Unless you are thinking genocide of the entire middle east is the answer, war/violence will not work. Which, as your post suggests is your attitude, which convieniently is the exact same attitude Mr OBL has. Kill one "terrorist" 2 more will spring up."


So, by that line of reasoning, we should still have Japanese, Germans, Koreans, Vietnamese, etc... all still trying to kill us and looking for opportunities to blow us away. I don't see them.

Based on what I've seen on TV over the past decade, the primary social activity in the Middle East is to dance around burning cars.

This must be scheduled between the "Bleeding Men Beating Themselves With Chains" dance and the "Yelling Men Carrying the Dead Imam Through the Streets" dance.

These folks need bartenders. Badly.

AnonymousGuy

binnster, dukefluke

At least I have one.

/geez, the raising of discourse by liberals.



There's a difference between having and being.

/bored, childish, never voted liberal.

while in class ask the teach how to spell moron, cockbite.

Ha ha - Raicilla's not a member of the Kool Kid's Klub

Omega Ohm: Actually it would be 2, if you would liek to take a look at minutes of Un meetings, it seems at the time Saddam fell, the US was holding up on $7 billion of goods that the UN Security Council had approved for Iraq to buy under the oil-for-food program, if you would like to also look at the comments of various UN chiefs who worked within Iraq made, they also say that the US was the main pusher for aggressive sanctions.

We have already established Saddam was a bastard, still doesn't excuse Albright saying she thinks the price is worth it.

Another one for ya:
Gaddafis daughter was killed by which country in a bombing raid(coincidently a while later Libyan agents blew up a plane over Lockerbie)?

Difar53: As far as I remember, the charter of the UN states that land taken by aggresion will be returned, I know that argument was used in the Gulf War when Iraq had invaded Kuwait. Also, which peace talks are you talking about? As one of the main Israeli tasks during the last peace talks was to disband settlements and Palestinians to stop terror attacks, when the Israelis(after 6/7 years had increased the size of settlements) the terror attacks resumed, who broke the accord?

2004-04-21 10:24:15 AM Omega Ohm: Please point out to me where I ever claimed Islam is a "religion of peace."

Actually, I think the Cold War model is the best one to apply to this situation, as it was successfully done to Iraq for over ten years, and as it has been successfully applied to Iran for over twenty years. If you study those two instances, you will see that isolation and containment of those two countries worked just fine. In Iraq, Hussein's government was crumbling, and in Iran, the youth is dissatisfied with the bleak, oppressive, and dull life under the Ayatollahs.

An intelligent leader would let these Arab/Muslim people stew in their own juices for a decade or two until the people there got fed up with their crumby governments and inefficient systems and decided to overthrow them.

Instead, we have braying arses such as yourself who believe that these people must be forced at gunpoint to choose our way of life, and babble menacingly about "defeatism" when someone points out the foolishness and counter-productivity of the current lame strategy.

In short, Omega, you are a fool and the course you and the feverish bible-thumping jackass in the White House advocate will do us more harm than good and will, in fact, LOSE this war rather than win it. But of course, being true to form, your ilk puts ideology above all else, especially empirical evidence.

You have been wrong in most aspects of this stupid war and occupation over the last two years. Time and again you have been proved wrong. Wrong on WMD. Wrong on the insurgency. Wrong on the Shiites. Wrong on the cost. Wrong on the casualties. Etcetera. Yet here you are, arguing yet again for the bone-head path, setting yourself up to be wrong yet again. It is pathetic, frankly.

The only amazing thing in all of this is that anybody listens to the consistently mistaken analyses and stupid recommendations of your faction. The dumbass course set by Bush and supported by dupes like you is throwing out the baby with the bath water, and you can't even see it.

You are a dipstick, Omega.

Omega Ohm

So, by that line of reasoning, we should still have Japanese, Germans, Koreans, Vietnamese, etc... all still trying to kill us and looking for opportunities to blow us away. I don't see them.

Hmm, good point. I'm interested in counterarguments. Any takers?

lokiza --
"Omega Ohm: Actually it would be 2, if you would liek to take a look at minutes of Un meetings, it seems at the time Saddam fell, the US was holding up on $7 billion of goods that the UN Security Council had approved for Iraq to buy under the oil-for-food program, if you would like to also look at the comments of various UN chiefs who worked within Iraq made, they also say that the US was the main pusher for aggressive sanctions."


No, sanctions were the only available option to us. They wouldn't let us go in and take out Saddam like we wanted to do originally. Yes, we placed aggressive sanctions on him, however, it was the UN and Saddam that engaged in profiteering from those sanctions.