Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Boston Globe)   Feds sue history buff for return of crashed WWII airplane abandoned in 1944   (boston.com) divider line 95
    More: Asinine  
•       •       •

17822 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Mar 2004 at 1:20 PM (11 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



95 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
2004-03-27 01:22:23 PM  
there they go again. hahahahaha.
 
2004-03-27 01:22:51 PM  
Only because it contained the skeleton of one Adolph Hitler who was escaping Germany en route to Japan....


and because he vigortously believed that the Nipponese, were, in fact, the Master Race

/top that!
 
2004-03-27 01:25:35 PM  
This absolutely sucks. They shouldn't be allowed to do this (the Navy). Suing him for the plane AND compensation for retreival and alterations. If anything, they should be paying him fat sums of cash if they want it. Sounds like he is playing fair and square and the Navy isn't.

I certainly HOPE the government doesn't allow this to happen. Bullying wherever they see fit. It just disgusts me.
 
2004-03-27 01:25:56 PM  
So, they have to sue the poor guy. They can't just buy him out or something? They left it to rot there for decades; the farking thing is HIS. Asshats.
 
2004-03-27 01:26:37 PM  
If he was bright he would've kept his mouth shut until the thing was restored and not recognizable as the airplane in the swamp. Some people seem to invite fedgov to go after them. It reminds me of the folks who ask BATFE agents how to register their grandpa's bringback MP40 submachine gun or whatnot. Telling fedgov something exists isn't a good way to find out if they want you to have it or not.

/rant
 
2004-03-27 01:27:16 PM  
I certainly HOPE the government doesn't allow this to happen. Bullying wherever they see fit. It just disgusts me.

You hope the government doesn't bully someone. Ha ha ha ha ha! Isn't that their job?

/slightly trolling
 
2004-03-27 01:27:33 PM  
If they had left it to the feds, they probably would have botched the recovery and incurred about $5,000,000,000,000 in related costs ...
 
2004-03-27 01:28:16 PM  
Throw it back into the swamp and say "fetch".
 
2004-03-27 01:28:44 PM  
how do salvage laws pertain to land-based operations?
 
2004-03-27 01:30:52 PM  
Anyone notice at the bottom of the article how the guy asked the "officials" for 5.5 million dollars to begin with?

It doesn't sound like this is a case of the Navy demanding it back - it sounds like the Navy asked for it back, offered compensation, and the history buff put his pinky to his mouth and demanded fat cash.

History buff my ass. The Navy would probably put it in a museum - he just wants fat cash. This is painted in the wrong bias.
 
2004-03-27 01:31:19 PM  
ScottMpls -

Don't you think 5 Trillion dollars is a tad conservative? They could have incurred half that much on environmental impact statements alone. On the swamp.
 
2004-03-27 01:31:40 PM  
zoob
They learned this technique from the RIAA of course.
 
2004-03-27 01:32:21 PM  

zoob spake:

This absolutely sucks. They shouldn't be allowed to do this (the Navy). Suing him for the plane AND compensation for retreival and alterations. If anything, they should be paying him fat sums of cash if they want it. Sounds like he is playing fair and square and the Navy isn't.
Actually, they aren't allowed to do this. Abandoned property belongs to the salvager. This is how treasure hunters work. None of the gold in the Caribbean sea belongs to the Spanish Gov't, f'rinstance. It belongs to whomever goes and gets it. The Navy will lose this case.

If they want the plane that badly, they are allowed to claim emminent domain and give him fair market value, but the plane belongs to him now.

However, it does suck, and, one way or the other, the Navy will get the plane back.
 
2004-03-27 01:34:05 PM  
"The Navy would probably put it in a museum..."

He he. Sometimes you folks just crack me up :)

Even been to Tucson, AZ? Hundred of acres of rotting airplanes is the US Government's idea of an aircraft museum.
 
2004-03-27 01:34:17 PM  
Heh. An f16 on his lawn would change his mind.
 
2004-03-27 01:34:32 PM  
The fact that the pilot died in this plane complicates things-I suspect that is where the Navy is having problems with this.
 
2004-03-27 01:34:39 PM  
Cool looking plane.

This one probably has the radioactive scorch marks from where the alien disruptor beam hit it.
 
2004-03-27 01:36:02 PM  
[image from warbirdalley.com too old to be available]
 
2004-03-27 01:36:16 PM  
If he was bright he would've kept his mouth shut

See, that was his first problem

*ring*: U.S. Navy
"Yes good morning, I'm looking for an original Brewster Corsair F3A-1 seat cover"
"Please hold"
 
2004-03-27 01:36:34 PM  
Asinine is right. The Navy will have a tough case trying to prove the plane is theirs given that they knew about it before, stripped it down and left it in the swamp. They should be viewed by any court as having abandoned the plane and the salvage rights given to the salvager.
 
2004-03-27 01:36:36 PM  
I have six of these things I'm selling on ebay, I hope the navy doesn't cancel my auctions.
 
2004-03-27 01:37:19 PM  
jeep44 -

The Navy was already there - right after the crash, they stripped the thing. They had their chance, and abandoned the aircraft for decades.
 
2004-03-27 01:37:44 PM  
That's totally his, if the navy wanted it they should have taken it when they stripped it of weapons. If they wanted to get it later they should have declared it a graveyard or whatever the hell they do.
 
2004-03-27 01:38:22 PM  
According to MN law, he would have to have applied for a salvage title within 48 hours of recovering the vehicle. There is no definitions presented as to whether military aircraft can be salvaged.

http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/stats/168A/151.html
 
2004-03-27 01:39:43 PM  
Corsairs are cool planes. I glanced over the comment pointed out by sion_verdox. I was on this guys side but after reading that I dunno. Also if the navy wanted it so bad why didnt they get it themselves? Apparently it wasnt too hard to get. Sounds stupid on both sides.
 
2004-03-27 01:41:05 PM  
Hmm.

Seems a tad suspicious to me. I wonder who's the officer driving this lawsuit? Might be worth a query to the JAG office to find out. Naval officers being who and what they are, I wouldn't be surprised to find out there was an angle involved OTHER than profit motive or historical preservation.

It's always political with the Navy. Always.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2004-03-27 01:42:00 PM  
Abandoned property belongs to the salvager.

Not abandoned government property. U.S. military aircraft remain government property until the government affirmatively gives up title.
 
2004-03-27 01:42:01 PM  
Sion_verdux

From the article, it looks like that's the price he valued it at when he registered it with the FAA. I don't think he was trying to sell it at all, seeing as how he then went on to start restoring it and all...

Stupid Navy asshats. I hope this guy countersues.
 
2004-03-27 01:43:48 PM  
On a side note, my uncle was killed in a plane crash during his service in the Navy. I would be upset if someone found the wreckage, revamped it and then demanded 5 million for it when the military asked for it.
 
2004-03-27 01:44:07 PM  
I'm a history buff..



/therefore, a nerd.
 
2004-03-27 01:45:59 PM  
Typo, Super-the Navy has ALWAYS been like this. You find a crashed bird? Once US Navy, ALWAYS US Navy-everybody involved in this racket knows that from their mama's knee...I know a few people involved in warbird salvage including one who should be sued after this guy, frankly.

Spin, why you buggin'? Pima Air Museum is great! Most of those same models were put thru giant shredders there, it's the friggin' desert-those things are a lot better there than rotting in some yard in Minnesoter
 
2004-03-27 01:46:14 PM  
I just did a search on naval wrecks to see if I could learn if anything on my uncle's death was declassified. Found this appropriate to the conversation.

Who owns U.S. Navy ship and aircraft wrecks?

The Department of the Navy retains custody of all its ship and aircraft wrecks unless specific, formal action is taken to dispose of them. The administrative act of striking an aircraft or ship from the active list does not constitute disposal. Even aircraft and ship wrecks that are
stricken from the active list remain the property of the United States until such time affirmative action is taken to dispose of these properties, such as sale, or other action in accordance with law.
 
2004-03-27 01:46:44 PM  
Cat F Cat F

I think what happened was the Navy originally wanted the plane, but didn't want to spend the money salvaging the whole thing so they just went in and stripped it.

Then they find out, decades later, that someone managed to pull the whole plane out since it's probably easier to do now than in the 1940s. So they want the plane now, right? They go to the guy and they say "Thanks for doing the work for us, what would you like as compensation? We'd like the plane back now."

He says "5.5 million"
Navy says "Wtf? It cost you like less than 30,000 to pull it out and you've only spend like 30,000 on restoration so far!" (random number inserted because this guy couldnt possibly have spent that much)
He says "Well that's how much I could sell it to someone when it's restored"
Navy says "Well it's ours, give it back"
He says "fark you hippies"

So I mean, yeah, both sides are being stupid... but that article has that stupid unwarranted "little guy being picked up" bias.
 
2004-03-27 01:48:06 PM  
2004-03-27 01:42:00 PM ZAZ
Abandoned property belongs to the salvager.

Not abandoned government property. U.S. military aircraft remain government property until the government affirmatively gives up title.


The law is the same in the UK. All crashed aircraft from WW2 belong to the RAF.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2004-03-27 01:48:09 PM  
None of the gold in the Caribbean sea belongs to the Spanish Gov't, f'rinstance. It belongs to whomever goes and gets it.

In the Sea Hunt case the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals held that two former Spanish warships sunk off the coast of Virginia in the 18th century still belonged to Spain. The rules may be different for ships not belonging to the government.
 
2004-03-27 01:50:07 PM  
This plane should be taken immediately and the filthy unpatriotic airplane pirate flogged or possibly raped. That 1940s vintage nonfunctional airplane is U.S. property vital to the continuing War on Terror.
 
2004-03-27 01:50:33 PM  
i_got_no_strings

Hmm you might be right but I looked at it again and it says "The lawsuit claims Cralley put a value of $5.5 million on the Corsair when officials first demanded its return. Cralley declined to comment about specific claims in the lawsuit."

The emphasis goes to say that he didn't mention any values until they started asking for the plane. Which goes to imply that the Navy said "Give us the plane, what do you want?" and he said "Give me 5.5 million. Its the registered value."
 
2004-03-27 01:54:27 PM  
There's an old Navy saying about just this kind of thing. Ask anyone who was in the Navy - they all know it.

"I love the farking Navy, because the Navy loves farking me."
 
2004-03-27 01:56:21 PM  
Who owns U.S. Navy ship and aircraft wrecks?

The Department of the Navy retains custody of all its ship and aircraft wrecks unless specific, formal action is taken to dispose of them. The administrative act of striking an aircraft or ship from the active list does not constitute disposal. Even aircraft and ship wrecks that are
stricken from the active list remain the property of the United States until such time affirmative action is taken to dispose of these properties, such as sale, or other action in accordance with law.


The Navy have always been assholes about this. It doesn't matter to them how long something's been abandoned or in what condition it's in, at the bottom of the ocean or whatever - it's theirs in perpetuity. They'd rather see it rot than let someone else have it. The Air Force is much more reasonable and if it's written off their books, it's fair game.
 
2004-03-27 01:59:25 PM  
I see it as honoring the dead, at least for the ships at the bottom of the ocean. Maybe it is simply a matter of the Navy forgot about this plane and it was only now raised to their attention. They offered him a million dollars for it.
 
2004-03-27 02:00:26 PM  
Military hardware belongs to the nation that sailed it until forever. When Bob Ballard dove on the Bismarck, he didn't have to claim salvage because its still legal German property (and a war grave). This plane is the same. Unless the military waives its right, its still theres. The Navy seems to be must more "detail oriented" than the USAF is since I know the "Greenland Air Force" 2 or 3 P-38s, A B-17 and a B-29 where all extracted with a nominal handling charge. Well extracted is a bit generous. Only one P-38 made it out and the B-29 caught fire and burned to ground on Taxi when it was supposed to fly out :( Damn sad story. Spend MONTHS in Greenland restoring a B-29 so they can fly it out and it burns just minutes before it gets away.
Might have been a b-50, but I think it was a 29. (They are very similiar)
Corsairs are really cool. They way they designed it was propeller first, then engine, then everything else :)
"so let's take this 13' propeller and really make it turn " :)

/Super-History freak
 
MBK [TotalFark]
2004-03-27 02:02:12 PM  
This is a clear case of Finders Keepers vs Losers Weepers (1984).
 
2004-03-27 02:07:02 PM  
The B-29 dougermouse was talking about was made into a show called B-29 Frozen in Time that aired on the PBS show NOVA. An incredible (and heartbreaking) show well worth watching. It's available at Amazon for any aircraft afficionados.
 
2004-03-27 02:13:03 PM  
rhiannon
Should've tried JC WHitney first.
 
2004-03-27 02:20:11 PM  
This is a little off-topic, but damn it was horrible to watch that B-29 burn. They should have just broken the plane up and shipped that parts back to a nice, warm hangar with plenty of coffee.
 
2004-03-27 02:20:11 PM  
No, no, CORSAIR not CORVAIR!
 
FNG [TotalFark]
2004-03-27 02:20:39 PM  
Navy: "Sorry about the oversight, but we'd like our plane back. We'll give you a million dollars for it."
Old man: "It's my baby and it will cost you $5.5 million."
Navy: "That's very amusing, sir. Including your time, efforts, parts, and labor, we're being extremely generous. Think about it. It's ours anyway, we don't have to be cool about this."
Old man: "Bite me, you don't have a leg to stand on."
Navy: "Take her away, boys. Old man, we tried to hook you up, you are being unreasonable, so now you've lost the plane AND the dough."
Old man: "That can't be legal."
Navy: "Look it up."
Old man: "Crap. Guess my four kids won't be going to college after all. A million bucks sure woulda kept me from whining about being poor."
 
OBB
2004-03-27 02:21:07 PM  
Baa baa Black Sheep...
 
2004-03-27 02:24:42 PM  
frickin' jarheads.

If it was so important and valuable, they should have retrieved it themselves.
 
2004-03-27 02:24:46 PM  
[image from crazyabouttv.com too old to be available]
Just try to knock that Corsair off my shoulder.
-Pappy
 
Displayed 50 of 95 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report