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(Boston Globe)   Idiots sue school system to force daily Pledge Of Allegiance   ( divider line
    More: Asinine  
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3445 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Dec 2001 at 1:18 AM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2001-12-22 05:00:36 AM  
I don't doubt that we couldn't have gotten started without the US, but you know what, times change. When I talk about laws holding us back in certain areas, I don't mean exploitation by the state, I mean stupid federal laws that have been put in place by people who weren't looking out for the good of the country but lining their own damn pockets.

That's a major problem, corruption, the government is supposed to have checks and balances to keep it from getting out of hand, and it seems to work to a point, but there is plenty corruption and while we may not notice it (the majority of people), it's there and it's a problem.
2001-12-22 05:04:54 AM  
I pledge allegiance to the flag
michael jackson is a fag
pepsi cola burned him up
now he's drinking 7UP
7UP went down the drain
now there's nothing to explain
2001-12-22 05:06:55 AM  
Tech: Laws are always going to come fro m somewhere. Some things are banned by the federal government, so states don't bother dealing with it. If your arguement is that the union should disolve and the 50 states take care of themselves and deal with bordering states as they see fit with their militias, that is another matter. As it is, this is a federal republic. California will have to live with the same laws as the rest. Reverse it in federal court, secede, or violate the law.
2001-12-22 05:09:21 AM  
Tech: Corruption in state or federal government makes no difference. It is still corrupt.
2001-12-22 05:15:09 AM  
Apparent NuisanceCorruption in state or federal government makes no difference. It is still corrupt

Your correct, but I never said it was different; I'm talking about federal laws that hold back legitimate progress, all because some government high up wasn't happy with his buttload of cash.

I also don't believe that the union should dissolve, I'm just saying that California might just do better for itself as it's own country, not part of the union.
2001-12-22 05:41:22 AM  
Tech: Since it is a federation, laws inhibiting local progress from above must be dealt with with on a federal level. After all, this law is not to pledge to California, but the the Union. I disagree that they should be FORCED to do either, since a coerced pledge is worthless. I will pledge allegiance to any power if they will leave me alone, which is why I recited the pledge every morning in school. They can make people say the words, but that makes no difference. If I pray in Latin with no understanding of what I said, do I get into heaven?
2001-12-22 06:13:45 AM  
As a Brit, this seems like typical US insanity.
The flag is just a symbol, teach your kids what it means by example and they won't need the symbol.

As for the pledge, well at least out national athems words are funny.
2001-12-22 06:51:02 AM  
If you need to force this kind of thing on people, it isnt worth trying to force on them. I cant believe theres actually a law that says you have to have flags in each classroom and recite something daily. Even if that's the case, this should be dealt with in a criminal court (you know, where matters of law are dealt with), not by civil court.

Americans will sue anybody, won't they?

Wee. Taw. Did.
2001-12-22 06:55:22 AM  
[image from too old to be available]

"What's that on your chest mister?"
"It's a pledge pin, sir."
2001-12-22 06:57:56 AM  
Shouldn't this article then belong in the opinions/editorial section? Help me out here. It seems like the whole piece is slanted a bit.

The Boston Globe is the most liberal large paper in the country. Of course its slanted. Its the same paper that liberal hippie scum are constanly being fired for making up stories about events that never happened.
2001-12-22 07:08:28 AM  
Correct me if I'm wrong; but, wasn't this settled in 1943 (West Virginia Board of Education v. Barnette)?

If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion, or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us.
2001-12-22 08:08:40 AM  
Well if we stopped worrying about the pledge of allegiance in schools and actually started to worry about education perhaps we'd have smarter students and less problems with the school system.

It's amazing how many times I hear about stupid stuff being contested in court like whether or not evolution should be taught or about public prayer but noone cares that most high school graduates can't even do basic math and don't even have a knowledge of basic history or science.

If we stopped worrying about how our kids "feel" and start worrying about how and what our kids LEARN we'd fix the education system.

School is where you learn facts, not where you go to shoot fireworks for the fourth of July and it is not your Church. Nor should it be your sports arena.

Being a product of public school I know how much it sucks ass.
2001-12-22 08:10:41 AM  
Dude I totally forgot about that. Thanks I'm cutting and pasting it for later use so I don't.
2001-12-22 08:16:55 AM  
Eraser8: Ever been subpoenad and threatened with contempt if you don't swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

In any event, this isn't about forcing any individual to do any thing. This is about forcing the government to put flags in its own classroom. This is about forcing the schools to offer the pledge of allegiance. Nobody (except some teachers, I'm sure, who deserve whatever they get) is trying to coerce any individual who does not wish to into pledging.
2001-12-22 08:23:11 AM  
Not that I know anything about this, but does'nt it say the children should have the right to say what the pledge, ie no one will beat the crap out of them if they say it? So what's all the fuss about?

Secondly, call me paranoid, but isn't a flag in every calssroom law reminicsent of early Nazi nationalism?
Jaybee: spot on.

Eh, and TV in classrooms? What is wrong with 'education' in America?
2001-12-22 08:36:34 AM  
This is publicity crap. The suit is being filed by a Geraldo Wannabe.
2001-12-22 08:44:28 AM  
Yeah, you're thinking, "fakr! Sym's gonna make a comment about this?! It'll be long as hell!" Yeppers. I am. And it will. Naturally. But, I speak, and for some reason, a lot of people listen. (Now, I know that sounds egotistic, but oh, well.)

First off, requiring the displaying of the flag in every room in the school is not un-constitutional, and therefore alright. I think that everyone should have the opportunity to view the flag, learn about it, and even recite the PoA to it if they wish to.

Second off, the law does NOT require students to recite it. Nor does it require a "physical note" to explain why they don't wish to recite it. It's a pledge of allegiance, as with religious prayer, to something intangible, an idea. Never should the average American citizen be forced to pledge their allegiance to anything, much less a concept that is resembles a "god" more than anything. No, the law doesn't require it, but only because it's been ruled un-constitutional by the US Supreme Court.

Third, requiring teachers to lead the students (if only the ones that want to recite it) in reciting the PoA is ALSO un-constitutional. The law infringes on the rights of the teachers. Nor should teachers ever be required to teach the PoA to students, as in teaching it, they need to recite it (written or orally) to the students, and that infringes on their own rights.

Fourth, their is nothing patriotic or un-patriotic about reciting the pledge or refusing to recite it. The measure of an individual's patriotism or lack thereof shouldn't even have any influence on that individual's character, much less be judged on whether or not they recite the PoA. Did the 9/11 attacks on the WTC and the Pentagon (how come everyone forgets what happened in Wash, DC that day...everyone focuses on NYC, but isn't Wash, DC the center of the free world? Why is it not considered un-patriotic to leave out the details of the Pentagon attack? Or to not give money to the victims' families of the Wash, DC?) change the face of the American citizen that he/she is required to be patriotic or get his/her ass out of the country?!?! It is the definition of being a US citizen to hold the right to decide for his or her self whether or not they wish to do anything, as long as it does not infringe on the rights of other citizens.

Fifth, why does the PoA include the word "God" or any reference to a supreme being? What happened to the separation of church and state? Why would anyone pledge their allegiance to a flag....a symbol? The flag makes no statement, enforces no rules, sets up no government, nor does it secure freedoms for the citizens of the country it is meant to represent.

When I joined the US Army, I had to take a similar oath, but one I considered an oath I could live in. The oath was simple: I pledged that I would defend the Constitution of the United States of America, a document, written by the citizens of the government it forms, that is the most amendable constitution in the world. I pledged my allegiance to a piece of paper, yes...but one that sets up a government that I can have faith in to forever protect the interests of its people, no matter what the current time calls for. I did not swear to protect a god, a president, a country, a political party, nor even myself. I swore to protect the Constitution, a piece of paper with some really meaningful words on it. If the country wants some real patriotism, why don't we change the nearly-meaningless PoA to more reflect that oath I took when I went into service for the US military? No, it doesn't need to be exact, but obviously the PoA is meaningless in nature.

Sixth, I would never, even when it was required by the Catholic school I attended in kindergarden and 1st grade, recite the PoA with the other kids. I don't believe in god, and don't wish to pledge my allegiance to a flag. That pledge would mean little-to-nothing to me. It was created in a time when the country really needed a little patriotism on its side, and has since been nullified in meaning. It never took into consideration the religious differences of the people it was meant to apply to. It should be nulled by Federal law, if you ask me. Then people would truly have the choice whether or not to recite it.

Lastly, why don't those people that want to require the recital of the PoA in schools just get off their lazy fakring asses and go ahead and teach their kids something on their own?!?! Parents are lazy today when it comes to raising their children. They rely too heavily on teachers to act as part-time parents to their students. No teacher should be forced to parent a child that's not their own, nor should they be forced to teach something they do not believe in. Anymore than a parent should be forced to have their child learn concepts that that parent doesn't believe in, such as evolution (I defend a parent's right to teach their children their own beliefs in the creation of the human race, even if I think creationism is a crock of shiat) or the PoA.

Thank you. And sorry for the lengthiness of this one.

2001-12-22 08:45:39 AM  
I pledge allegiance to the flag, of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Oh yeah, I can see how terrible that is, it's the absolute worst thing ever to happen to America, just think of the horrible mental anguish this puts everyone through who has to say it. This will just lead to patriotism and being a republican.

2001-12-22 09:09:49 AM  
i dont do the pledge out of laziness. I have to go to school at farking 7:30 in the morninhg, and ill be damned if i have to get up from my chair to salute to the damn flag. I can be patriotic in my own farking way,saluting the flag or putting little shiat flags all over my car doesn't mean shiat.
2001-12-22 09:15:22 AM  
JoelKatz: Testimony is not a matter of opinion -- which is where the Supreme Court decision is directed
2001-12-22 09:35:43 AM  
I think MisterSym hit the nail right on the head. The PoA is about enforcing confomity, and I think it's BS. I do believe in the constitution, though. This is more than one can say for most of our elected representatives these days, and more than can be said for the electorate for that matter.
2001-12-22 09:37:29 AM  

It has nothing to do with how "easy" it is to say a pledge, it's the principal of the thing, and we're just commenting that no one should be forced to say anything. It's badly worded. The "under God" part shouldn't be there. I don't pledge allegiance to my flag, I pledge allegiance to my bad ass country. It's just badly worded.

If you don't pledge allegiance to the flag or the USA, like Tech, I agree with someone earlier, get the hell out if you've got it so tough. I love this shiat, "I don't pledge allegiance to the flag or America," but you still live here and enjoy all the priveleges of an American, and would sue your ass off if they were taken away. Hypocrite.
2001-12-22 09:48:40 AM  
Hey, I want to live hear and enjoy the freedoms and opportunities that I do have in this country, but complain about the very thing that gives me those freedoms and opportunities.

Please. These are the some of the same people who want to excercize their "freedom" to burn a flag, which just happens to be the very symbol of the freedom they want to excercize. So, in essence, it's saying, "I want the freedom to disrespect and oppose the symbol of freedom." Makes a lot of sense.
2001-12-22 09:58:04 AM  
[image from too old to be available]Farkin' nazi'z
2001-12-22 10:09:20 AM  
Oooohhh... Aren't we all so "radical chic."
2001-12-22 10:10:21 AM  
Article is farked...did they hire him a whore or not?
2001-12-22 10:13:54 AM  
I know one little boy is isn't afraid to wave his flag in public:
2001-12-22 10:14:15 AM  
[image from too old to be available]
2001-12-22 10:25:56 AM  
12-22-01 04:33:39 AM Hoosier
Don't most classrooms already have TV's? Can't they just play a video of Britney Spears wearing a stars & bars swim suit and singing the pledge? Kids might pay attention......

That, although true, is the most asinine, unintelligent comment I have ever seen. How dare you imply that Britney Spears can sing!
2001-12-22 10:30:04 AM  
I find that Britney Spears televised concerts/videos are drastically improved when muted.
2001-12-22 10:40:51 AM  
I'd like to let everyone know that this happened at my school about 2 months ago. This stupid biatch and her mother sue the school because we arnt doing the pledge. now every tuesday, in remeberance of sept. 11 she does the pledge over the P.A. system. its damn annoying

Andover, Massachuttes
2001-12-22 10:44:26 AM  
Call me a hippie (because in some ways I probably am) but I hate it when ANYTHING is forced upon me, or anyone else. Patriotism included. Lately at my school they've really been trying to force patriotism upon us. They make us say the Pledge of Allegiance (I don't think I spelled that right. Bah, humcoont.) every day, and if we don't recite their zombie-slave phrase of obeyment, then we get in trouble for doing something we have every right to do. Just because you live in a country doesn't mean respect for it has to be forced down your throat. Patriotism can kiss my pale white ass.
2001-12-22 10:44:46 AM  
Maybe another Columbine will thin out their ranks a little.
2001-12-22 10:45:39 AM  
I think this bothers me because, while it doesn't force students to recite it, it does force teachers to lead it, and that, to me, is just wrong. (And according to a previous poster, unconstitutional.)

I agree that the law should be rewritten if no one really follows it. We shouldn't have a system where we follow some of our laws and ignore the others.

I said the pledge when I was a kid, because frankly, I didn't know any better, and I never really understood it when I said it. Knowing what I know now, I don't think I should have. I don't believe in symbols, I believe in people and ideas. The flag is a symbol, a grand one to be sure, but it's just a symbol all the same.

The pledge says that you pledge allegiance to a flag and a republic. I think it would be better if you pledged just to honor the Constitution of the repbulic. That's where all the ideas worth honoring and defending are, not in the flag. And leave out the "under god" part.
2001-12-22 10:50:28 AM  
Critical thinking. This is one of the things Americans often lack (but apparently not farkers...). The PoA does not encourage critical thinking.
2001-12-22 10:53:58 AM  
Sausage boy - You are not a hippie. You are silly child. The good news is that you will probably grow out of this phase. Perhaps if you paid more attention to school and less attention to other things, you would know that "obeyment" was not a word. Just a thought.
2001-12-22 10:57:54 AM  
Oh, I guess the word I was looking for was "obedience." I'm sorry if I decide to let my brain go on vacation every farking now and then. I can make up words if I want. It doesn't matter if I do pay attention in school, I'm cursed with the ability to remember almost everything I hear or see. Stupid country worshipping... stupidheads.
2001-12-22 11:06:38 AM  
Right. Slightly cheap shot. Perhaps you could use your photographic memory to read some American history, some comparative political histories, some Western Civ. type stuff, etc. Then maybe, just maybe, you would be sufficiently appreciative of what your country represents in the broad sweep of things to not need patriotism "forced down your throat." Perhaps, just perhaps, you would be sufficiently appreciative to feel patriotic and not be embarrassed by it.
2001-12-22 11:07:43 AM  
littlesausage-You can't let something go on vacation if it isn't there to begin with.
2001-12-22 11:11:02 AM  
Looks like I got here after the people who share my views already left. fark you.
2001-12-22 11:11:07 AM  
Blind patriotism can lead to nationalism and all its excesses, as the ten past years have amply shown.
2001-12-22 11:11:12 AM  
Does anyone have that jpeg with the retarded kid running that says "arguing with people on the internet is like the special olympics???????If you have it could you post it or email it to me at lordw­a­t­s­o­n­ow­nz­[nospam-﹫-backwards]l­ia­mtoh*com????


2001-12-22 11:12:03 AM  
P.S.- Sorry for deviating a bit from the thought of the thread.
2001-12-22 11:14:49 AM  
Say the pledge, and nobody gets shot in the face.

[image from too old to be available]
2001-12-22 11:36:31 AM  
Tech, next year I'll be moving to California ...I'm from Ohio but right now I'm in Florida and I've always wondered: will I be considered "the cool guy from the east" or "the creepy outsider"? Just wondering...

"'We are not saying that everybody has to salute the flag, represents everything that this country is about the freedom. That's why this is important.'"

The freedom to have the flag shoved down my throat every time I enter a classroom? Listen, I love my country and I'm proud and happy to live here, but please let me be patriotic in my own way.
2001-12-22 11:46:17 AM  
Patriotism can kiss my pale white ass.

Sausage, let us know what other country you decide to move to, and when your going. I'll be glad to know that you're gone, since your mooching off of what past Americans did for you to be able to live here, and then complaining about it.
2001-12-22 11:52:43 AM  
I'm not going to read the trillion posts, but the US supreme court rulled during WW2(1943 I think), that forcing students to say the pledge is unconstitutional. States can't override that, they are not allowed to force you to do it. SO GO TO HELL STUPID STATE COURTS WHO THINK THEY HAVE MORE FARKING POWER THAN THE US SUPREME COURT!
2001-12-22 11:56:34 AM  
We all keep reading these I hate the US posts from losers who won't leave and it's pretty obvious that those of you who are not destitute slobs who can't afford to leave the country (or are in prison) are actually bullshiatting us. If you hated the US and had any ambition or will of your own, you would get the hell out. How many losers crawl or swim over our Southern border in a day? Are they better than you? If not, than I suggest you grow up. Get over this college-brat I know more about what's right than anyone is this country attitude and join the real world.
2001-12-22 12:01:32 PM  
Since Mr. Kitty isn't reading this, he can bite me.
2001-12-22 12:01:40 PM  
I had to get my ass up every morning in gradeschool before all the b.s. arose. i didn't understand it then, but now, i think that it's a good practice. the lawsuit is asinine for sure, the principal is doing the right thing. i bet they start making kids pledge alligiance to god, and a whole new batch of idiots will pop up, aclu...good concept, bad execution.
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