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(Watchdog.org)   Yo dawg, we heard you hate useless state boards, so we commissioned a state board to identify useless state boards to eliminate, but it can't identify a single one so it's useless   (watchdog.org) divider line
    More: Ironic, Ohio, Ohio General Assembly, Sunset Review Committee, Sen. Kris Jordan, Ohio Legislative Commission, budget process  
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3724 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Aug 2015 at 11:15 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2015-08-31 08:43:17 AM  
But...but...if they get rid of state boards, how else will politicians reward their lackeys, flunkies, and other family members who are too inept to be trusted in any sort of appointed office?
 
2015-08-31 09:29:49 AM  
Anybody want to bet that the guy who wanted to eliminate the motor vehicle repair board would be the first to biatch if somebody next door did this and let him experience the noise, smell, and wastewater? Also, $3500 per investigation seems...rather reasonable.
 
2015-08-31 11:22:25 AM  
The problem with boards... is that although they are needed... they always evolve into a system that provides for an artificial scarcity of licensed people to protect jobs and ensure profitability.
 
2015-08-31 11:23:16 AM  
I'm reminded of the corporation that I work for; where we have meetings about having meetings....

/ private sector or govt.; there's quite a lot of fat that could be trimmed off bureaucracies, IMHO.
 
2015-08-31 11:23:42 AM  
...Wasn't this an episode of Yes Minister? It takes two to QUANGO.
 
2015-08-31 11:24:07 AM  

Forbidden Doughnut: I'm reminded of the corporation that I work for; where we have meetings about having meetings....


I like the conference calls to schedule conference calls.
 
2015-08-31 11:26:13 AM  
turnbacktogod.comView Full Size


also hated government mandated boards
 
2015-08-31 11:29:27 AM  

dwrash: The problem with boards... is that although they are needed... they always evolve into a system that provides for an artificial scarcity of licensed people to protect jobs and ensure profitability.


I hate my medical bills as much as the next guy, but I don't think the solution is to let every yahoo with.  stethoscope set up shop in their Datsun in order to prevent an "artificial scarcity"
 
2015-08-31 11:32:05 AM  

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: [www.turnbacktogod.com image 400x400]

also hated government mandated boards


You nailed that one!
 
2015-08-31 11:33:09 AM  
So if it didn't identify a useless state board, it did find a useless state board - itself. But if it did find a useless state board, then it isn't useless, and so it didn't find a useless state board after all. But if it  didn't find a useless state board...
 
2015-08-31 11:33:21 AM  

pueblonative: dwrash: The problem with boards... is that although they are needed... they always evolve into a system that provides for an artificial scarcity of licensed people to protect jobs and ensure profitability.

I hate my medical bills as much as the next guy, but I don't think the solution is to let every yahoo with.  stethoscope set up shop in their Datsun in order to prevent an "artificial scarcity"


Yea, you might get a bad dye-job:

https://www.idph.state.ia.us/licensure/Cosmetology.aspx
 
2015-08-31 11:34:06 AM  

Arkanaut: So if it didn't identify a useless state board, it did find a useless state board - itself. But if it did find a useless state board, then it isn't useless, and so it didn't find a useless state board after all. But if it  didn't find a useless state board...


static.tvtropes.orgView Full Size
 
2015-08-31 11:34:59 AM  

pueblonative: dwrash: The problem with boards... is that although they are needed... they always evolve into a system that provides for an artificial scarcity of licensed people to protect jobs and ensure profitability.

I hate my medical bills as much as the next guy, but I don't think the solution is to let every yahoo with.  stethoscope set up shop in their Datsun in order to prevent an "artificial scarcity"


I think the comment is more in reference to cosmetologists than physicians.

In exchange for licensing fees, state boards often serve to protect education industries that seek to monopolize training of individuals before they enter certain professions.

For things like law and medicine, it makes sense. For many other things, not so much.
 
2015-08-31 11:36:00 AM  
Here let me help and save you time and money... ALL OF THEM
 
2015-08-31 11:43:15 AM  

Animatronik: pueblonative: dwrash: The problem with boards... is that although they are needed... they always evolve into a system that provides for an artificial scarcity of licensed people to protect jobs and ensure profitability.

I hate my medical bills as much as the next guy, but I don't think the solution is to let every yahoo with.  stethoscope set up shop in their Datsun in order to prevent an "artificial scarcity"

I think the comment is more in reference to cosmetologists than physicians.

In exchange for licensing fees, state boards often serve to protect education industries that seek to monopolize training of individuals before they enter certain professions.

For things like law and medicine, it makes sense. For many other things, not so much.


I can understand taking a test in order to get a license to practice, but -- so long as you can pass the exams -- it shouldn't matter how or where you acquired the knowledge.  If you know the law and can prove it via an exam of sufficient rigor, then you should be allowed to practice law.
 
2015-08-31 11:47:52 AM  

Arkanaut: So if it didn't identify a useless state board, it did find a useless state board - itself. But if it did find a useless state board, then it isn't useless, and so it didn't find a useless state board after all. But if it  didn't find a useless state board...


Don't worry, if it found a useless board, then it was useful. But if it's useful, then the only board it identified as useless was, in fact useful, thus still rendering it useless.

No matter what, it's a useless board.
 
2015-08-31 11:49:30 AM  

Animatronik: pueblonative: dwrash: The problem with boards... is that although they are needed... they always evolve into a system that provides for an artificial scarcity of licensed people to protect jobs and ensure profitability.

I hate my medical bills as much as the next guy, but I don't think the solution is to let every yahoo with.  stethoscope set up shop in their Datsun in order to prevent an "artificial scarcity"

I think the comment is more in reference to cosmetologists than physicians.

In exchange for licensing fees, state boards often serve to protect education industries that seek to monopolize training of individuals before they enter certain professions.

For things like law and medicine, it makes sense. For many other things, not so much.


Out of all that article I could only find one board (cosmotology) that was of the wtf variety.

The subsets of medicine? Yeah medical science has advanced and specialized. It's not that much of a stretch to think that doctors in one field may not know relatively that much in another. You could try to cram them back up to the medical board, but then you have to enlarge that board.

Motor repair? Besides my Boobies, given tales of less than honest car shops you could make  a case for oversight, especially given that you have a piece of heavy machinery operating on the public road.
 
2015-08-31 11:49:38 AM  

jshine: Animatronik: pueblonative: dwrash: The problem with boards... is that although they are needed... they always evolve into a system that provides for an artificial scarcity of licensed people to protect jobs and ensure profitability.

I hate my medical bills as much as the next guy, but I don't think the solution is to let every yahoo with.  stethoscope set up shop in their Datsun in order to prevent an "artificial scarcity"

I think the comment is more in reference to cosmetologists than physicians.

In exchange for licensing fees, state boards often serve to protect education industries that seek to monopolize training of individuals before they enter certain professions.

For things like law and medicine, it makes sense. For many other things, not so much.

I can understand taking a test in order to get a license to practice, but -- so long as you can pass the exams -- it shouldn't matter how or where you acquired the knowledge.  If you know the law and can prove it via an exam of sufficient rigor, then you should be allowed to practice law.


 Actually , it does matter. It's why many trades are still set up like guilds. You want your plumber or electrician to be experienced, not book smart. It's why tradesmen, medical processionals, etc. are required to take schooling d work for somebody else and learn hands on, under supervision. Who is best at deciding what the requirements are? The people on the various boards. The license fees and such are supposed to offset the costs of running the various boards. Unless, you're a libertarian and think a member of the Hairdressing board should be updating your electrical or gas codes.
 
2015-08-31 11:52:16 AM  

kuzinov: jshine: Animatronik: pueblonative: dwrash: The problem with boards... is that although they are needed... they always evolve into a system that provides for an artificial scarcity of licensed people to protect jobs and ensure profitability.

I hate my medical bills as much as the next guy, but I don't think the solution is to let every yahoo with.  stethoscope set up shop in their Datsun in order to prevent an "artificial scarcity"

I think the comment is more in reference to cosmetologists than physicians.

In exchange for licensing fees, state boards often serve to protect education industries that seek to monopolize training of individuals before they enter certain professions.

For things like law and medicine, it makes sense. For many other things, not so much.

I can understand taking a test in order to get a license to practice, but -- so long as you can pass the exams -- it shouldn't matter how or where you acquired the knowledge.  If you know the law and can prove it via an exam of sufficient rigor, then you should be allowed to practice law.

 Actually , it does matter. It's why many trades are still set up like guilds. You want your plumber or electrician to be experienced, not book smart.


Actually, I'd think you'd want a lawyer who is book smart.
 
2015-08-31 11:54:13 AM  
If Ohio figures it out, they absorb this commission into their state Homeland Security complex, hand the Commissioner a red Livingston stapler, and show him his office in the basement.

Some states have well-functioning Sunset Commissions that cause otherwise mediocre agencies to spend an entire year writing reports, having meetings, and going to presentation-skills conferences where their "show your work" hearings come up.


encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.comView Full Size
 
2015-08-31 12:07:02 PM  

kuzinov: jshine: Animatronik: pueblonative: dwrash: The problem with boards... is that although they are needed... they always evolve into a system that provides for an artificial scarcity of licensed people to protect jobs and ensure profitability.

I hate my medical bills as much as the next guy, but I don't think the solution is to let every yahoo with.  stethoscope set up shop in their Datsun in order to prevent an "artificial scarcity"

I think the comment is more in reference to cosmetologists than physicians.

In exchange for licensing fees, state boards often serve to protect education industries that seek to monopolize training of individuals before they enter certain professions.

For things like law and medicine, it makes sense. For many other things, not so much.

I can understand taking a test in order to get a license to practice, but -- so long as you can pass the exams -- it shouldn't matter how or where you acquired the knowledge.  If you know the law and can prove it via an exam of sufficient rigor, then you should be allowed to practice law.

 Actually , it does matter. It's why many trades are still set up like guilds. You want your plumber or electrician to be experienced, not book smart. It's why tradesmen, medical processionals, etc. are required to take schooling d work for somebody else and learn hands on, under supervision. Who is best at deciding what the requirements are? The people on the various boards. The license fees and such are supposed to offset the costs of running the various boards. Unless, you're a libertarian and think a member of the Hairdressing board should be updating your electrical or gas codes.


Which is why you should have a lot more apprenticeships and a lot less schooling for the vast majority of licensing boards.
 
2015-08-31 12:09:17 PM  

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: [www.turnbacktogod.com image 400x400]

also hated government mandated boards


Now I don't care who you are...that there is funny stuff.
 
2015-08-31 12:10:18 PM  

jshine: kuzinov: jshine: Animatronik: pueblonative: dwrash: The problem with boards... is that although they are needed... they always evolve into a system that provides for an artificial scarcity of licensed people to protect jobs and ensure profitability.

I hate my medical bills as much as the next guy, but I don't think the solution is to let every yahoo with.  stethoscope set up shop in their Datsun in order to prevent an "artificial scarcity"

I think the comment is more in reference to cosmetologists than physicians.

In exchange for licensing fees, state boards often serve to protect education industries that seek to monopolize training of individuals before they enter certain professions.

For things like law and medicine, it makes sense. For many other things, not so much.

I can understand taking a test in order to get a license to practice, but -- so long as you can pass the exams -- it shouldn't matter how or where you acquired the knowledge.  If you know the law and can prove it via an exam of sufficient rigor, then you should be allowed to practice law.

 Actually , it does matter. It's why many trades are still set up like guilds. You want your plumber or electrician to be experienced, not book smart.

Actually, I'd think you'd want a lawyer who is book smart.


Um, no. They have attorneys they use to take their code and write it into the book in proper legal language. An attorney isn't going to know why any of the code exists much less why it needs to be changed or updated. The Board also oversees the local inspectors throughout the State, another important function. As a plumber, I see a lot of work that was installed before building codes existed, builing codes are a blessing to the public, you don't want to know what got hidden under the plaster and trim. It's sound practice to make sure the public is using qualified people when they pay for a professional, what ever their trade. The best people, the ones who understand the profession, are from it. The article shows a view from a person who doesn't know the difference between an optical dispenser and an ophthalmologist, th's farking scary.
 
2015-08-31 12:15:49 PM  

kuzinov: jshine: kuzinov: jshine: Animatronik: pueblonative: dwrash: The problem with boards... is that although they are needed... they always evolve into a system that provides for an artificial scarcity of licensed people to protect jobs and ensure profitability.

I hate my medical bills as much as the next guy, but I don't think the solution is to let every yahoo with.  stethoscope set up shop in their Datsun in order to prevent an "artificial scarcity"

I think the comment is more in reference to cosmetologists than physicians.

In exchange for licensing fees, state boards often serve to protect education industries that seek to monopolize training of individuals before they enter certain professions.

For things like law and medicine, it makes sense. For many other things, not so much.

I can understand taking a test in order to get a license to practice, but -- so long as you can pass the exams -- it shouldn't matter how or where you acquired the knowledge.  If you know the law and can prove it via an exam of sufficient rigor, then you should be allowed to practice law.

 Actually , it does matter. It's why many trades are still set up like guilds. You want your plumber or electrician to be experienced, not book smart.

Actually, I'd think you'd want a lawyer who is book smart.

Um, no. They have attorneys they use to take their code and write it into the book in proper legal language. An attorney isn't going to know why any of the code exists much less why it needs to be changed or updated. The Board also oversees the local inspectors throughout the State, another important function. As a plumber, I see a lot of work that was installed before building codes existed, builing codes are a blessing to the public, you don't want to know what got hidden under the plaster and trim. It's sound practice to make sure the public is using qualified people when they pay for a professional, what ever their trade. The best people, the ones who understand the profession, are from it ...


Also, an attorney isn't going to be current with new procedures, equipment, and the training for both. I answer to a Plumbing Board, sometimes, it can be annoying. But, in Massachusetts, when a plumber or electrician shows up at your house, they're certified to be up on all the latest code, have all the required insurances, and have done a backround check to make sure you're not an axe murderer. I think at the end of the day, it's good for the consumer.
 
2015-08-31 12:23:17 PM  
pueblonative:

Motor repair? Besides my Boobies.......

Now there's a review board I'd pay to server on........
 
2015-08-31 12:26:31 PM  
As someone who's mother served on the Select Committee on Committees, I'm getting a kick...

They thought it was a useless assignment for a freshman congresscritter. Then they realized the near limitless power they had given said freshman. Then they did their damnedest to neuter the committee.

/your gubmint at work.
 
2015-08-31 12:27:55 PM  

Forbidden Doughnut: I'm reminded of the corporation that I work for; where we have meetings about having meetings....

/ private sector or govt.; there's quite a lot of fat that could be trimmed off bureaucracies, IMHO.


That's what always bugs me about the people clamoring for corporations to be put in charge of everything instead of the government. At a certain point any organization whether private or public becomes over-saturated with red tape and pointless bureaucracies.

I worked for a large telecommunications company in tech support for a few years and saw firsthand how criminally mismanaged companies can be operated. Management for the call center were so preoccupied with having our numbers look good that they set up production quotas that forced everyone to do busy work instead of actually fixing things since it would take up more time to do so. They were so inept at using the features built in to the software we used that they required multiple additional forms of paperwork documenting work that was already tracked elsewhere.
 
2015-08-31 12:58:06 PM  
americanbar.orgView Full Size
 
2015-08-31 12:59:52 PM  
The bureacracy is expanding to meet the expanding needs of the bureacracy.
 
2015-08-31 01:07:13 PM  

pueblonative: Anybody want to bet that the guy who wanted to eliminate the motor vehicle repair board would be the first to biatch if somebody next door did this and let him experience the noise, smell, and wastewater? Also, $3500 per investigation seems...rather reasonable.


FTA :

"...most [investigations] were because someone in the industry complained about someone trying to enter the industry and undercut prices because they were working out of their garage."

A fine example of big business purchasing government protection from small businesses (usually by way of campaign contributions).

I suppose we should be grateful they're not just killing the upstarts.

/ not an argument against licensing, bonding or insuring
// big business loves big government
 
2015-08-31 01:07:24 PM  

jshine: SirDigbyChickenCaesar: [www.turnbacktogod.com image 400x400]

also hated government mandated boards

You nailed that one!


I guess he does hate them, He looks rather cross in that picture.
 
2015-08-31 01:07:29 PM  

kuzinov: As a plumber, I see a lot of work that was installed before building codes existed, builing codes are a blessing to the public, you don't want to know what got hidden under the plaster and trim. It's sound practice to make sure the public is using qualified people when they pay for a professional, what ever their trade.


As a mechanic I have to agree. The biggest parts of repair shop licensing in most states are simply insuring that the business has insurance and business licenses, pays their taxes and disposes of hazardous materials correctly. When he talks about the guy repairing cars in his home garage for money, just how many of those do you think he's bothered with?

If the guy working out of his home garage has crossed all the i's and dotted all the t's then great, let him work there if he isn't violating zoning. But I can almost guarantee that he's keeping his overhead down by saving money on little things like waste fluids disposal.
 
2015-08-31 01:09:38 PM  
Government is inept.  Government fails to create committee to inspect its ineptitude.  Absolutely the opposite of ironic.
 
2015-08-31 01:10:22 PM  

sex_and_drugs_for_ian: pueblonative: Anybody want to bet that the guy who wanted to eliminate the motor vehicle repair board would be the first to biatch if somebody next door did this and let him experience the noise, smell, and wastewater? Also, $3500 per investigation seems...rather reasonable.

FTA :

"...most [investigations] were because someone in the industry complained about someone trying to enter the industry and undercut prices because they were working out of their garage."

A fine example of big business purchasing government protection from small businesses (usually by way of campaign contributions).

I suppose we should be grateful they're not just killing the upstarts.

/ not an argument against licensing, bonding or insuring
// big business loves big government


Just how many "big businesses" do you think their are in auto repair? The great majority of shops are owner/operator setups.
 
2015-08-31 01:11:28 PM  

sex_and_drugs_for_ian: pueblonative: Anybody want to bet that the guy who wanted to eliminate the motor vehicle repair board would be the first to biatch if somebody next door did this and let him experience the noise, smell, and wastewater? Also, $3500 per investigation seems...rather reasonable.

FTA :

"...most [investigations] were because someone in the industry complained about someone trying to enter the industry and undercut prices because they were working out of their garage."

A fine example of big business purchasing government protection from small businesses (usually by way of campaign contributions).

I suppose we should be grateful they're not just killing the upstarts.

/ not an argument against licensing, bonding or insuring
// big business loves big government


Okay, if an investigation is found to be baseless (as in "are you out of your goddamned mind" as opposed to just any invstigation I don't like) you get billed for the investigation. Get too many and your own license gets stripped.
 
2015-08-31 01:11:34 PM  
One of my clients is group of retail vendors.  They actually have a "web committee" that meets to decide on what should be done with the website.  Updates, new content, changes, etc...

3 years I've been working for them.  They, as a group, have not really accomplished a single thing.  Me and the guy who manages the business, basically make all the decisions.  It's like the committee is there to be informed about what we are really doing, and not the other way around.

I sat in on one of those meetings last year.  It was a complete waste of my time.  Afterward, I told the boss, "look...  You handle these meetings.  Just let me know what is decided.  I don't need to sit there an listen to them argue..."
 
2015-08-31 01:12:45 PM  

kuzinov: kuzinov: jshine: kuzinov: jshine: Animatronik: pueblonative: dwrash: The problem with boards... is that although they are needed... they always evolve into a system that provides for an artificial scarcity of licensed people to protect jobs and ensure profitability.

I hate my medical bills as much as the next guy, but I don't think the solution is to let every yahoo with.  stethoscope set up shop in their Datsun in order to prevent an "artificial scarcity"

I think the comment is more in reference to cosmetologists than physicians.

In exchange for licensing fees, state boards often serve to protect education industries that seek to monopolize training of individuals before they enter certain professions.

For things like law and medicine, it makes sense. For many other things, not so much.

I can understand taking a test in order to get a license to practice, but -- so long as you can pass the exams -- it shouldn't matter how or where you acquired the knowledge.  If you know the law and can prove it via an exam of sufficient rigor, then you should be allowed to practice law.

 Actually , it does matter. It's why many trades are still set up like guilds. You want your plumber or electrician to be experienced, not book smart.

Actually, I'd think you'd want a lawyer who is book smart.

Um, no. They have attorneys they use to take their code and write it into the book in proper legal language. An attorney isn't going to know why any of the code exists much less why it needs to be changed or updated. The Board also oversees the local inspectors throughout the State, another important function. As a plumber, I see a lot of work that was installed before building codes existed, builing codes are a blessing to the public, you don't want to know what got hidden under the plaster and trim. It's sound practice to make sure the public is using qualified people when they pay for a professional, what ever their trade. The best people, the ones who understand the profession, are from it ...

Also, an attorney isn't going to be current with new procedures, equipment, and the training for both. I answer to a Plumbing Board, sometimes, it can be annoying. But, in Massachusetts, when a plumber or electrician shows up at your house, they're certified to be up on all the latest code, have all the required insurances, and have done a backround check to make sure you're not an axe murderer. I think at the end of the day, it's good for the consumer.


Plus, if a random guy did plumbing work and did a bad job, tough shiat and why did you hire him you dummy. Someone who is certified and licensed is making the guarantee that he can do the job, and if he does a bad job that gives a good basis for board investigations, insurance company reimbursements and repairs, and lawsuits.
 
2015-08-31 01:14:42 PM  

scanman61: sex_and_drugs_for_ian: pueblonative: Anybody want to bet that the guy who wanted to eliminate the motor vehicle repair board would be the first to biatch if somebody next door did this and let him experience the noise, smell, and wastewater? Also, $3500 per investigation seems...rather reasonable.

FTA :

"...most [investigations] were because someone in the industry complained about someone trying to enter the industry and undercut prices because they were working out of their garage."

A fine example of big business purchasing government protection from small businesses (usually by way of campaign contributions).

I suppose we should be grateful they're not just killing the upstarts.

/ not an argument against licensing, bonding or insuring
// big business loves big government

Just how many "big businesses" do you think their are in auto repair? The great majority of shops are owner/operator setups.


Sears, Midas, Firestone, Goodyear, and countless powerful local large chains.

These players can make the little guy's life miserable if they want to.
 
2015-08-31 01:15:24 PM  

pueblonative: Okay, if an investigation is found to be baseless (as in "are you out of your goddamned mind" as opposed to just any invstigation I don't like) you get billed for the investigation. Get too many and your own license gets stripped.


I like it!
 
2015-08-31 01:18:00 PM  
Was I the only one who kept reading that as useless skateboards?
 
2015-08-31 01:32:50 PM  
No you were not.
/what a useless skate board may look like .pic
 
2015-08-31 01:35:59 PM  
Roads? Schools? This is what most of government is.
 
2015-08-31 01:49:59 PM  
My favorite will always be The City Chattanooga Beer, Taxicab and Wrecker Board.
 
2015-08-31 01:57:38 PM  
Less traing time to become an EMT than a hairdresser in lots of places. It's a shame because a lot more younger urban males would gravitate towards this profession if it the training wasn't so expensive and long. It's way easier to get locked up and get certified than it is to pursue this field on the outside.
 
2015-08-31 02:07:48 PM  

rebelyell2006: kuzinov: kuzinov: jshine: kuzinov: jshine: Animatronik: pueblonative: dwrash: The problem with boards... is that although they are needed... they always evolve into a system that provides for an artificial scarcity of licensed people to protect jobs and ensure profitability.

I hate my medical bills as much as the next guy, but I don't think the solution is to let every yahoo with.  stethoscope set up shop in their Datsun in order to prevent an "artificial scarcity"

I think the comment is more in reference to cosmetologists than physicians.

In exchange for licensing fees, state boards often serve to protect education industries that seek to monopolize training of individuals before they enter certain professions.

For things like law and medicine, it makes sense. For many other things, not so much.

I can understand taking a test in order to get a license to practice, but -- so long as you can pass the exams -- it shouldn't matter how or where you acquired the knowledge.  If you know the law and can prove it via an exam of sufficient rigor, then you should be allowed to practice law.

 Actually , it does matter. It's why many trades are still set up like guilds. You want your plumber or electrician to be experienced, not book smart.

Actually, I'd think you'd want a lawyer who is book smart.

Um, no. They have attorneys they use to take their code and write it into the book in proper legal language. An attorney isn't going to know why any of the code exists much less why it needs to be changed or updated. The Board also oversees the local inspectors throughout the State, another important function. As a plumber, I see a lot of work that was installed before building codes existed, builing codes are a blessing to the public, you don't want to know what got hidden under the plaster and trim. It's sound practice to make sure the public is using qualified people when they pay for a professional, what ever their trade. The best people, the ones who understand the profe ...


This has wandered quite far from my initial point which was that it shouldn't matter how you obtained your knowledge, as long as you can pass a comprehensive licensing exam showing that you do -- in fact -- know what you're doing and obtain the necessary certification.  I never said or implied that licenses served no purpose.
 
2015-08-31 02:09:19 PM  
FTFA:  "They spend about $500,000 for 100 investigations a year," he said. "That's $3,500 per investigation..."
Apparently, they already eliminated the basic algebra committee...
 
2015-08-31 02:22:31 PM  

rebelyell2006: Plus, if a random guy did plumbing work and did a bad job, tough shiat and why did you hire him you dummy. Someone who is certified and licensed is making the guarantee that he can do the job, and if he does a bad job that gives a good basis for board investigations, insurance company reimbursements and repairs, and lawsuits.


1) As a consumer, I should have a choice.  If I'm getting something fairly basic done and I don't have time, expertise, or tools I want to hire the cheap guy who will take cash and do the job.  I don't need the board certified AAA rated, bonded, whoever.  When I'm rewiring the house, I'll spend the extra 10% to get somebody I have more faith in.

2) When you F'd by a contractor or mechanic, you're still pretty much screwed.  Insurance doesn't cover faulty work, the licensing board doesn't care, you just have to sue.. and that's the case with Mr Fly by Night or Mr Insurance.
 
2015-08-31 02:38:16 PM  

MugzyBrown: rebelyell2006: Plus, if a random guy did plumbing work and did a bad job, tough shiat and why did you hire him you dummy. Someone who is certified and licensed is making the guarantee that he can do the job, and if he does a bad job that gives a good basis for board investigations, insurance company reimbursements and repairs, and lawsuits.

1) As a consumer, I should have a choice.  If I'm getting something fairly basic done and I don't have time, expertise, or tools I want to hire the cheap guy who will take cash and do the job.  I don't need the board certified AAA rated, bonded, whoever.  When I'm rewiring the house, I'll spend the extra 10% to get somebody I have more faith in.

2) When you F'd by a contractor or mechanic, you're still pretty much screwed.  Insurance doesn't cover faulty work, the licensing board doesn't care, you just have to sue.. and that's the case with Mr Fly by Night or Mr Insurance.


1. So you called for a plumber and the government showed up, put a gun to your head and told you "you're hiring this guy at $200 an hour with a two hour minimum AND YOU WILL LIKE IT, CIVILIAN!"  Oh and I want to see your definition of "simple".
 
2015-08-31 02:38:22 PM  

jshine: rebelyell2006: kuzinov: kuzinov: jshine: kuzinov: jshine: Animatronik: pueblonative: dwrash: The problem with boards... is that although they are needed... they always evolve into a system that provides for an artificial scarcity of licensed people to protect jobs and ensure profitability.

I hate my medical bills as much as the next guy, but I don't think the solution is to let every yahoo with.  stethoscope set up shop in their Datsun in order to prevent an "artificial scarcity"

I think the comment is more in reference to cosmetologists than physicians.

In exchange for licensing fees, state boards often serve to protect education industries that seek to monopolize training of individuals before they enter certain professions.

For things like law and medicine, it makes sense. For many other things, not so much.

I can understand taking a test in order to get a license to practice, but -- so long as you can pass the exams -- it shouldn't matter how or where you acquired the knowledge.  If you know the law and can prove it via an exam of sufficient rigor, then you should be allowed to practice law.

 Actually , it does matter. It's why many trades are still set up like guilds. You want your plumber or electrician to be experienced, not book smart.

Actually, I'd think you'd want a lawyer who is book smart.

Um, no. They have attorneys they use to take their code and write it into the book in proper legal language. An attorney isn't going to know why any of the code exists much less why it needs to be changed or updated. The Board also oversees the local inspectors throughout the State, another important function. As a plumber, I see a lot of work that was installed before building codes existed, builing codes are a blessing to the public, you don't want to know what got hidden under the plaster and trim. It's sound practice to make sure the public is using qualified people when they pay for a professional, what ever their trade. The best people, the ones who under ...

This has wandered quite far from my initial point which was that it shouldn't matter how you obtained your knowledge, as long as you can pass a comprehensive licensing exam showing that you do -- in fact -- know what you're doing and obtain the necessary certification. I never said or implied that licenses served no purpose.


A person would have a pretty rough time learning and proving that he learned everything about (1) theories; (2) techniques; (3) the most up-to-date local/county/state codes; and (4) monitored and tutored experience, if he doesn't at least have an associates degree or community college certificate in the subject matter (like plumbing or welding or automobile mechanics or cosmetology). Even law school involves extensive amount of practice with supervision from lawyers and professors. How does a history museum know that I can be trusted to safely mark object numbers on artifacts? Because I learned how to do so in a laboratory setting in grad school, as taught by curators and professors, using a large pile of household items, things dug up in a backyard, and later actual artifacts in a work-study setting at the university's museum. Self-taught people run the risk of learning things wrong the first time and never having someone there to correct it.
 
2015-08-31 02:43:28 PM  

kuzinov: you don't want to know what got hidden under the plaster and trim


Actually I do. I've done some amature plumbing in my own house an I can tell you from experience that you get leaks and or bad smells if you don't do it right. You can't hide that under plaster and trim. What is it you're suggesting they screwed up that could be hidden with plaster and trim?
 
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