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(Washington Post)   Postal service will require massive federal bailout to guarantee nation's supply of berserk mailman jokes   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 112
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6719 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Mar 2004 at 5:57 PM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2004-03-23 01:01:46 PM
Didn't RTFA (because I don't want to register), but if fewer people are using U.S. mail it seems like the solutions is to cut jobs. I know that would suck for a lot of people, but what's the alternative? Use tax dollars to keep people employed who aren't really doing anything?
 
2004-03-23 01:18:26 PM
"Use tax dollars to keep people employed who aren't really doing anything?"

works for congress.
 
2004-03-23 01:44:03 PM
They should really let carriers like UPS and FedEx carry regular mail and do away with the postal service entirely. Nearly every time I ship something it is cheaper to send it FedEx than USPS anyway.
 
2004-03-23 01:53:20 PM
We have a contract with UPS. We get cheaper shipping than most people and it's at least half what the USPS costs.
 
2004-03-23 02:33:24 PM
Goodbye cheap mail rates.
Goodbye Saturday delivery.
Goodbye rural routes.
 
2004-03-23 03:02:16 PM
Goodbye cheap mail rates.

Cheap? You can't even send three letters for a buck any more. And what is the real cost of postage if they can't be self-sufficient and need a bailout? Fifty cents a letter? A dollar a letter? The system needs to be privatized IMO. If it were profit-driven then it would be more efficient.
 
2004-03-23 03:17:37 PM
sites which require registration make baby jesus cry

/not gonna read it now
 
2004-03-23 06:02:59 PM
Possible solutions to problem (at least it will help a little):

STOP sponsoring sports teams you idiots -- Lance Armstrong is quite capable of making it with another team.

STOP advertising on T.V. and stuff you idiots -- you have almost a freakin' monopoly.

SELL ADVERTIZING on stamps!
 
2004-03-23 06:03:06 PM
iollow: Didn't RTFA (because I don't want to register), but if fewer people are using U.S. mail it seems like the solutions is to cut jobs. I know that would suck for a lot of people, but what's the alternative? Use tax dollars to keep people employed who aren't really doing anything?


Well, fewer jobs isn't necessarily the answer. At some point, you'll hit the minimum number that you absolutely need in order to provide daily mail service to every address in America, usually within 2-3 days of sending.

At some point, it doesn't matter whether you send 1 million letters a day or 250 million...a certain infrastructure needs to be in place to send anything.
 
2004-03-23 06:03:28 PM
In every other organization in the world, a decline in mail would mean that the organization contracts. Not here. Instead we will bail them out so that people can stand around doing nothing all day (or more so than they currently do).
 
2004-03-23 06:04:33 PM
If UPS or FedEX would just leave shiat on my unused door's porch like the USPS instead of making me actually sign for packages, I might switch over to them wholly.
 
2004-03-23 06:06:08 PM
US Priority Mail gets a package of up to 1 lb. to anywhere in AMerica for $3.85, almost always in 2 days. Good deal.

And so what if it costs over a buck to send 3 letters? WTF can you buy for a buck? Much less 3 of a thing?
 
2004-03-23 06:06:37 PM
Dear The Postal Service:

Can we have our "sound" back when you're done, mmmyeah, nnkay thanks.

The Rentals
 
2004-03-23 06:07:23 PM
The USPS is easily the most effecient and successful branch of government. Run more like a business that has to pay its own way than any other government orginization. That being said, it is clear it is failing in a huge display of government incompetence. Completely privatize the USPS. I would rather get a subscription service from UPS than have to pay as much as I do for the USPS. Hell, while you are at it abolish or privatize any federal orginization with three or four letters in its acronym. It's a hell of a lot easier to grow back the ones we need than to abolish the ones that hurt, so it is best that we start with cutting as many as possible.
 
2004-03-23 06:07:59 PM
With everyday correspondence and bill-paying being shifted to the internet, and parcels & packages going to FedEx and UPS, eventually the USPS will primarily become the transport for bulk (junk) mail. Do we really need a government agency dedicated to that?

/my dad works for the USPS

/I haven't used a postage stamp in probably a year
 
2004-03-23 06:09:10 PM
WP requires registration. Why does FARK still link to reg-required sites when there are plenty of free alternatives?
 
2004-03-23 06:11:23 PM
That's awful sexist ... what about berserk mailwomen?
 
2004-03-23 06:12:26 PM
Let's not forget that the USPS, unlike UPS, DHL, Fedex, etc., doesn't have to pay taxes on anything, they don't have to register their vehicles, nor do they have to pay parking tickets.

Somehow private carriers manage to make a profit, despite some paying millions of dollar a year just in parking tickets, paying taxes on everything, and registering and smog checking (where applicable) their entire fleet. Oh and they have to use private towing services when their trucks break down, whereas the USPS seems to have their own tow trucks.
 
2004-03-23 06:12:36 PM
The Postal Service used to be one of the few Fed agencies that was self-sufficient. Blame the interweb!!!
 
2004-03-23 06:13:16 PM
For everyone else who actually read the article...

If the massive amount of nonprofitable "junk mail" is the problem, then the solution is to RAISE THE PRICE TO SEND JUNK MAIL! Sheesh.

btw, I didn't have to register, so here's the article:

There is trouble at the post office.

The U.S. Postal Service's financial outlook is bleak and getting bleaker, according to members of Congress, a presidential commission, the General Accounting Office and postal officials themselves. It is bad enough that some federal officials are warning of a huge taxpayer bailout -- or dramatic increases in postal rates -- if Congress does not reorganize the $67 billion-a-year entity soon to help it operate more efficiently.




"[T]he Postal Service as an institution probably cannot survive without fundamental reform," Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine), chairman of the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee, said at a Capitol Hill hearing this month.

A nine-member presidential commission that spent seven months last year studying the future of the Postal Service sounded a similar alarm. The panel concluded in a 181-page report that the institution is in "significant jeopardy" and may not be able to continue delivering mail to every address six days a week.

The fate of the independent federal agency, which was last reorganized in 1970, has been the subject of more than a half-dozen congressional hearings over the past three months. A joint House-Senate hearing is scheduled for today, after which several key lawmakers are expected to introduce legislation to change the way the Postal Service sets rates, manages its workforce and handles its products, services and finances.

"Our Postal Service is in trouble, and requires reform legislation to prevent a meltdown," said Rep. John M. McHugh (R-N.Y.), chairman of a special House panel on postal reform and oversight, who unsuccessfully sponsored a bill two years ago. "Universal service as we know it is at risk."

Similar efforts in recent years have fallen short. But several lawmakers said dire warnings about the Postal Service's problems from analysts, industry leaders and even the White House have provided a new sense of urgency. After years of losses, the Postal Service finished fiscal 2003 in the black only because of a one-time change in its pension payment requirements, officials say.

"We have the best opportunity we've had in years to address some of these issues," Rep. Henry A. Waxman (Calif.), the top Democrat on the House Government Reform Committee, said in a hearing last month.

But William Burrus, president of the American Postal Workers Union, which has more than 300,000 members and has been critical of prospective labor changes, says he does not accept the notion that the Postal Service is failing. He told a Senate panel last month that lobbying by major corporate mailers is driving the push for change.

"It is extremely important that Congress look beyond the interests of large mailers and examine the public interest," Burrus testified.

The Postal Service has about 738,000 employees, relies on revenue from operations rather than taxpayer funding and is one of few federal bureaucracies with which most Americans have regular contact. It is at the center of a $900 billion mailing industry, which employs 9 million people in such businesses as direct mail, paper manufacturers and printers.

The organization has been plagued by three consecutive years of declining mail volumes, stagnant revenue and rising costs -- a combination that has triggered billions of dollars in cumulative losses.

In part, the troubles stem from service disruptions after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and the anthrax mailings that fall. But a bigger culprit is the accelerating decline in letters and other first-class mail, a lucrative line of business that traditionally has covered two-thirds of the Postal Service's costs. Last year, for the first time, first-class mail represented less than half of the 202 billion pieces of mail the Postal Service handled. Officials predict a further erosion as Americans increasingly turn to the Internet, e-mail and cell phones to pay bills and stay connected.

"Raising postal rates to offset this trend may provide an immediate boost to the service's revenues, but over the longer term will likely accelerate the transition of mailed communications and payments to electronic alternatives," Comptroller General David M. Walker of the GAO told a House panel in January.

Despite declining mail volume, carriers must deliver to more homes and businesses than ever; addresses increase by more than 1.5 million a year. Also, Federal Express, United Parcel Service and others have made deep inroads into parcel delivery, once a growth area for the Postal Service. Meanwhile, the Postal Service has trimmed billions of dollars in capital spending on maintaining post offices and other physical assets, and is pondering how to cope with as much as $57 billion in future retiree health benefits that it may not be able to meet.

Postmaster General John E. Potter says the Postal Service has taken steps to transform itself into a leaner, more efficient organization. Officials have increased productivity and trimmed the payroll by more than 70,000 employees through attrition over the past five years. And they successfully lobbied Congress last year to restructure the agency's pension fund payments, a move that helped the organization finish fiscal 2003 $3.9 billion in the black after three consecutive years of losses.

But it is still not enough, Potter said. "The need for change may not become apparent to everyday mail users until the inflexibilities of our dated business model begin to affect service and the price of postage," he testified before a House panel in January. "We cannot afford to let this happen."

The presidential commission recommended several changes, including making it easier to close unneeded postal facilities, limiting to 180 days labor arbitrations that now take as long as 17 months, and including pension and health benefits in collective bargaining talks.

The commission recommended simplifying a postal rate-setting process that now takes more than a year to complete, and further shrinking the workforce through attrition and buyouts. Panelists also said the Postal Service should allow customers to buy, at a premium, personalized stamps bearing their photograph or other image, and should create a new pay-for-performance system for managers and workers.

Several of the recommendations are expected to be included in legislation to be introduced soon in the House and Senate. Collins and Sen. Thomas R. Carper (D-Del.) are likely to be chief sponsors in the Senate, while in the House McHugh, Waxman, House Government Reform panel Chairman Thomas M. Davis III (R-Va.) and Rep. Danny K. Davis (D-Ill.) are expected to be the lead advocates.

One challenge to passing a bill this year, congressional aides say, is a technical but important dispute over whether the Treasury Department or the Postal Service should pay about $27 billion in retirement benefits to some workers related to their military service. Historically, Treasury has paid such costs, but the responsibility was shifted to postal officials last year as part of the postal pension legislation. Postal officials want to switch the burden back, but the White House opposes such a move.

Another key challenge is whether Congress will repeal a provision in the pension legislation requiring postal officials to win approval from lawmakers before spending more than $3 billion in pension savings starting in fiscal 2006. Postal officials argue that uncertainty over access to the money impedes planning on mailing rates, but some lawmakers see the requirement as a check on wasteful spending.

Businesses from magazine publishers to credit card companies, whose representatives have spent weeks testifying in hearings and lobbying lawmakers, have a lot riding on the outcome of the legislative debate.

H. Robert Wientzen, president of the Direct Marketing Association, which represents 4,700 companies, told a Senate panel this month that direct mail generated $634.4 billion in revenue in 2002.

"In short, a viable Postal Service is vital to the future of the DMA's members and our industry," he said.
 
2004-03-23 06:13:58 PM
Oh god! Where will I get my pottery barn catalogs?

"Because we're blind to their tyranny."
 
2004-03-23 06:15:52 PM
How about they stop offering bulk rates to advertisers? Either they will stop sending junk mail (unlikely) or the USPS will make a shiatload more money.
 
2004-03-23 06:17:20 PM
What does it mean when the flag is flying half-mast at the Post Office?

They're hiring.
 
2004-03-23 06:17:56 PM
"The system needs to be privatized IMO. If it were profit-driven then it would be more efficient"

Privatised like the California energy market?

Run by Halliburton, Enron or Tyco?

Privatisation is not the most efficient way to run institutions. Look at your local water company, sewer service, electricty service.


And lastly:
"Nearly every time I ship something it is cheaper to send it FedEx than USPS anyway"

I call BS on this the USPS is usually cheaper, don't believe me?

Ok then compare rates with the following tool:
http://www.iship.com/priceit/price.asp
 
2004-03-23 06:18:08 PM
Here's the problem the USPS has.

They fall under the federal government and aren't able to make operation decisions without the government's say-so.

However, they don't receive the money from the federal government that other government agencies receive.

The Feds need to cut the USPS loose. Let them make their own rules. They will be able to run themselves the way they need to.
 
2004-03-23 06:18:21 PM
Read the whole article and I am not registered.

Let's see here...
Writing letters Vs. instant messaging and email. winner internet

paying bills with a check or online bill pay. winner internet.

getting lame xmas cards from family memebers I don't care about Vs not getting cards. winner internet.

Other than sending packages cheaply (far cheaper than UPS/FedEx) the USPS serves no purpose. What's worse is because it's a governemt opperation the "service" you get when you go to a post office is akin to DMV in hell.. in July.. in France. When Mr. Brown shows up to pick up the packages he is smiling and happy. He does not want to shoot me. Repeat. He does not want to shoot me.
 
2004-03-23 06:18:35 PM
"Didn't RTFA (because I don't want to register), but if fewer people are using U.S. mail it seems like the solutions is to cut jobs. I know that would suck for a lot of people, but what's the alternative? Use tax dollars to keep people employed who aren't really doing anything?"

Maybe they could use those who arent busy to...speed up the mail a bit?
 
2004-03-23 06:19:19 PM
And lets not forget that USPS delivers EVERYWHERE profitable or not.
 
2004-03-23 06:20:02 PM
To put it another way:

Imagine if all of your household financial decisions had come from congress. They wouldn't give you any money other than what you could make, but they'd tell you exactly how you had to spend every dollar.

Most people would starve within a year.
 
2004-03-23 06:20:32 PM
Wah. Face it people: "free" public services aren't free. They come out of your taxes.

As to rural routes, they can defray the goddamn costs themselves. I shouldn't have to pay for something I don't want or need.
 
2004-03-23 06:20:34 PM
They should bring back the ponies!
 
2004-03-23 06:22:44 PM
Seems like bailing out the postal service is becoming a habit.
 
2004-03-23 06:23:24 PM
"Privatised like the California energy market?"

If you think that the California energy market was privatized, then you sir are a tool of the government. What they did is relax some regulations, while leaving the most harmful one is place, and removing the corporate welfare that kept the over-regulated energy cheap. (Well, cheap to purchase. In the long run counting the txes spent it was a hell of a lot more expensive) Partial de-regulation is a scheme by the government to "privatize" something and when it doesn't work they get to claim that all their oppressive and stifling regulations are beneficial.
 
2004-03-23 06:23:24 PM


Hmm, thought of this for some reason...
 
2004-03-23 06:24:40 PM
The system needs to be privatized IMO. If it were profit-driven then it would be more efficient
Privatised like the California energy marke?

The California energy market was never private, they were quasi-private at best. If they were private, the government wouldn't have kept coming in and setting prices for sales to customers. I would love to operate in a business where my suppliers can sell to me at whatever price they want, but I am strictly limited in how much I can sell to customers, add to this the same officials regulating me telling people that I am "deregulated" and you have real hilarity ensuing.
 
2004-03-23 06:28:44 PM
I saw outsource it and let the Indians deliver it. They are much nicer and polite than my current Mail Man.

BTW...Isn't the USPS supposed to operate in the red?
 
2004-03-23 06:30:54 PM
It's been suggested that the current Republican administration has as one of its "unwritten" goals is to drive the federal government into bankruptcy, and privitize EVERYTHING. Anyone notice the only folks crying about this are Republicans?
And I do think 37 cents is a GREAT bargain. UPS or Fed Ex couldn't touch that rate. Also, is UPS a viable option for LEGAL documents?
 
2004-03-23 06:31:06 PM
DarkAvised
"SELL ADVERTIZING on stamps!"

I like that idea. Heard it somewhere before, but can't remember where. That alone would bring in a ton of revenue, not to mention a whole new area of stamp collecting.
 
2004-03-23 06:31:34 PM
Pretty simple:
City of LA municipal power rates did not fluctuate wildly during the CA energy crisis.
City of LA power is run by the city and is regulated.

City of SF is run by a private company, the private company was not regulated.

Result Enron profits, consumers get blackouts.


Why the difference?
 
2004-03-23 06:34:02 PM
Privatize that mother f*er, that'll solve all problems.

The problem with postal delivery is that you *can't* just cut the number of employees willy-nilly when the amount of mail they handle drops. You still have to service the same amount of people, just with a smaller load to each one. I mean, one guy can only walk around so many blocks in so much time, whether he drops off 2 letters at a house or 15.

Some cutbacks can be made, but they still have a monumental problem on their hands.

I say we go back to the Pony Express.
 
2004-03-23 06:34:10 PM
Sorry if this was mentioned before in the thread, but how about cutting out half the residential mail delivery days ? Half of us would get mail M-W-F, the other half T-T-S. This would save piles of money. I get 6-7 bills a month, a few mags, and the rest is junk. In 10 years NO bills will be sent via the post, it will all be online.

But reducing supply to meet demand would make too much sense and piss off the USPS union. But we used to get mail twice a day in big cities, so wtf, cut it in half again, who cares ?
 
2004-03-23 06:39:28 PM
It is bad enough that some federal officials are warning of a huge taxpayer bailout -- or dramatic increases in postal rates -- if Congress does not reorganize the $67 billion-a-year entity soon to help it operate more efficiently.

Notice how it's absolutely unthinkable to either lower postal worker pay and benefits or to contract out the work to private firms to lower costs.
 
2004-03-23 06:40:05 PM
UPS or Fed Ex couldn't touch that rate. Also, is UPS a viable option for LEGAL documents

Not sure what you mean by that. I'm in charge of all mailing and shipping for a law firm, and anything of any importance is trusted to FedEx. More reliable, better service, better tracking, no lines, etc. Though it is more expensive, I find it's worth it.
 
2004-03-23 06:41:24 PM
"City of LA municipal power rates did not fluctuate wildly during the CA energy crisis."

Of course they didnt' fluctuate, they were completely government controlled. You forgot to mention if their suppliers prices varied wildly and how the municipal power company insulated the customers from the varying supply market.

We've seen this deception with city run garbage services that deal with private companies for supplies. The city either runs up a debt to insulate the customers from the current supply price increase, but they usually pay dearly later OR the government run utility uses threats and coercion to get the supplier to lower prices to the previous point.
 
2004-03-23 06:41:51 PM
What will become of the term "Going Postal"?
 
2004-03-23 06:44:26 PM
06:17:56 PM surfdork: Privatised like the California energy market?

No, privatized like United Parcel. The California energy market wasn't "privatized," it was "deregulated". And only in the complete fantasy sense of that word.
 
2004-03-23 06:44:44 PM
Yet they can spend MILLIONS on new stamp designs. The USPS is so full of money leaks that it's a joke.
 
2004-03-23 06:44:53 PM
Federal bailouts get me so angry!!!

 
2004-03-23 06:44:59 PM
Pretty simple:
City of LA municipal power rates did not fluctuate wildly during the CA energy crisis.
City of LA power is run by the city and is regulated.

City of SF is run by a private company, the private company was not regulated.

Result Enron profits, consumers get blackouts.


Why the difference?


Enron is a power PRODUCER. It profited off of selling power to LA, SDG&E (san diego) PG&E (San Fran.) and everyone else. PG&E, the private company that supplies San Francisco, went bankrupt because the prices it bought energy at were unregulated, whereas the prices it could sell energy at were artificially low. Consumer energy rates were/are set by the state Public Utilities Commission, not the company.
 
2004-03-23 06:45:19 PM
1. The USPS union is a large part of the problem. It near frigging impossible to fire a person that works for the USPS. My cousin was caught diddling his supervisor (both married) and he simply was transferred. Add that to that the ones that don't actually work, but just hang around. Drug users that get busted, fired, and then come back with full retro pay. Yup, a wonderfully efficient organization.

2. USPS for legal documents and not UPS/FedEx? Well the government courts mandate that you use the government postal system.... go figure. I mean we all know that government employees and systems are magically more trustworthy than private ones.
 
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