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(The Hugo Awards)   After all the controversy, the 2015 Hugo Awards were finally presented last night. Well, some of them anyway, as the "if our people didn't get nominated, no one should win anything" crowd succeeded in their temper tantrum   (thehugoawards.org) divider line
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3361 clicks; posted to Geek » on 23 Aug 2015 at 10:46 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2015-08-23 08:28:31 AM  
I bet the sad puppies are happier in their anger.
 
2015-08-23 08:44:14 AM  
Subby has it a bit confused.  The rightwing fools who tried to game the system to push their ideology were shut out, which was a very wise move from the WSFS.  If the process has been thoroughly corrupted in a category, it's best to give no award that to reward cheating.
 
2015-08-23 09:35:32 AM  
sad puppy has a sad
media.breitbart.comView Full Size
 
2015-08-23 09:40:28 AM  
You can stick your Hugo where the sun don't shine.
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2015-08-23 09:59:40 AM  
I think they've gone from Hugo to Yugo
 
2015-08-23 10:15:14 AM  
It's about ethnics in writing.
 
2015-08-23 10:52:30 AM  
That's not what happened subby. Not at all.

But hey, the system works as it was supposed to. Those people that played politics lost.
 
2015-08-23 10:58:25 AM  
The who and the what now? No seriously, somebody give me a précis. It's not like I'm going read the article.

Is this like when people were slapping Hollywood on the back for casting Will Smith in 'I, Robot' when the actual point of the story was that the human protagonist was African American?
 
2015-08-23 11:00:06 AM  
Does this mean this guy was not able to goad the GamerGate morons to sweep the prizes with Properly Superior White Male Authors?

I haz a sad. A sad puppy.
 
2015-08-23 11:02:06 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: Subby has it a bit confused.  The rightwing fools who tried to game the system to push their ideology were shut out, which was a very wise move from the WSFS.


This is so the leftwing folks who have been pushing their ideology for the last few decades can show just how petty they can be when they start to lose to people who actually deserve to win for good writing, as opposed to being handed awards for telling the "correct" message.

When you hear about how the folks running the Hugos were acting before and during the awards, it's pretty plain who the petty people really are.
 
2015-08-23 11:04:55 AM  

SphericalTime: That's not what happened subby. Not at all.

But hey, the system works as it was supposed to. Those people that played politics lost.


I would say stubby hit the nail right on the head. The whole "vote no award" movement was pure politics and utterly childish. The fact that it won pretty much has killed any remnant of credibility the Hugo Awards once had.

I would say the puppies lost the battle but won the war in exposing what a crass, shallow, extremely exclusive view of "what is  real science fiction" group Worldcon has become.

And I thought the puppies slate was idiotic, and am far from their politics, but I also agreed with them that the pendulum had swung  way too far to the left. That the left reacted so viciously, personally and offensively merely proved their point.

I think this year finally exposed Worldcon and the Hugo's for what they have become: a "cool kids" table award where anyone who who doesn't fit their very narrow criteria is tossed out and labeled as "not really SF", which is both idiotic and goes against the entire spirit of SF.

But go ahead and pat yourself in the back for valiantly defeating the evil conservatives from destroying the pure and noble Hugos. Victory over BadThink is all but assured now.
 
2015-08-23 11:05:05 AM  
Award drama is the most pointless drama the entertainment people can drum up.

Still will never make your award relevant again.
 
2015-08-23 11:10:47 AM  
In case you haven't been paying attention to the Hugo clusterfark, here's a short summary; a bunch of asshole right-wing authors (who collectively called themselves the Sad Puppies, apparently because they thought a sympathetic name would make it harder for people to criticize them) were butthurt that they weren't good enough writers to get nominated on their own merits. Rather than do something sensible, like eg; write better books, they decided their lack of awards was the result of an Evil Left Wing Conspiracy!!!1!. The total lack of evidence for this "conspiracy" was treated as proof that those dastardly lefties were really good at covering their tracks.

To get back at the non-existent  Evil Left Wing Conspiracy!!!1!, they decided to rig the nomination process (by, amongst other things, asking Gamergaters on Twitter to help them vote-spam). As a result, a bunch of talentless right-wingers got nominated, including an openly racist and sexist neo-Nazi sympathizer.

Somehow Subby has decided that the people who didn't want to countenance this petty display of assholery were the tantrum-throwers.
 
2015-08-23 11:10:54 AM  
"Sad puppies" thought that O'Brien was the good guy in 1984.
 
2015-08-23 11:12:15 AM  

MFAWG: The who and the what now? No seriously, somebody give me a précis. It's not like I'm going read the article.

Is this like when people were slapping Hollywood on the back for casting Will Smith in 'I, Robot' when the actual point of the story was that the human protagonist was African American?


A bunch of Gamergaters were sick of women and other minorities winning Hugo Awards for works that try to do something more than just being an action story, so they got together to rig the fan vote for Hugo nominees and get only their works nominated.

What they apparently failed to realize is that the people who actually vote for the award have the ability to vote "No Award" if they feel none of the nominees is worthy of recognition. And that's what they did for every category last night that had nothing but rigged nominees.
 
2015-08-23 11:14:35 AM  

SuperSeriousMan: SphericalTime: That's not what happened subby. Not at all.

But hey, the system works as it was supposed to. Those people that played politics lost.

I would say stubby hit the nail right on the head. The whole "vote no award" movement was pure politics and utterly childish. The fact that it won pretty much has killed any remnant of credibility the Hugo Awards once had.

I would say the puppies lost the battle but won the war in exposing what a crass, shallow, extremely exclusive view of "what is  real science fiction" group Worldcon has become.

And I thought the puppies slate was idiotic, and am far from their politics, but I also agreed with them that the pendulum had swung  way too far to the left. That the left reacted so viciously, personally and offensively merely proved their point.

I think this year finally exposed Worldcon and the Hugo's for what they have become: a "cool kids" table award where anyone who who doesn't fit their very narrow criteria is tossed out and labeled as "not really SF", which is both idiotic and goes against the entire spirit of SF.

But go ahead and pat yourself in the back for valiantly defeating the evil conservatives from destroying the pure and noble Hugos. Victory over BadThink is all but assured now.


Oh, come off your farking cross. A Goddamned white supremacist misogynist dickbag tried to rig the awards and failed, and you're acting like that didn't merit some kind of reaction. If you really want or need white male dominated SF in your life, you have the entire first century of it to draw from.
 
2015-08-23 11:15:22 AM  

Gunther: In case you haven't been paying attention to the Hugo clusterfark, here's a short summary; a bunch of asshole right-wing authors (who collectively called themselves the Sad Puppies, apparently because they thought a sympathetic name would make it harder for people to criticize them) were butthurt that they weren't good enough writers to get nominated on their own merits. Rather than do something sensible, like eg; write better books, they decided their lack of awards was the result of an Evil Left Wing Conspiracy!!!1!. The total lack of evidence for this "conspiracy" was treated as proof that those dastardly lefties were really good at covering their tracks.

To get back at the non-existent  Evil Left Wing Conspiracy!!!1!, they decided to rig the nomination process (by, amongst other things, asking Gamergaters on Twitter to help them vote-spam). As a result, a bunch of talentless right-wingers got nominated, including an openly racist and sexist  neo-Nazi sympathizer.

Somehow Subby has decided that the people who didn't want to countenance this petty display of assholery were the tantrum-throwers.


You know, I like Spokane.  It was cool to have WorldCon here this year.  It was unfortunate that this whole mess had to go down less than 50 miles from the former Arian Nations compound.

fark, eventually we'll get our shiat together.  Probably not this week though.
 
2015-08-23 11:15:43 AM  

cirby: TuteTibiImperes: Subby has it a bit confused.  The rightwing fools who tried to game the system to push their ideology were shut out, which was a very wise move from the WSFS.

This is so the leftwing folks who have been pushing their ideology for the last few decades can show just how petty they can be when they start to lose to people who actually deserve to win for good writing, as opposed to being handed awards for telling the "correct" message.

When you hear about how the folks running the Hugos were acting before and during the awards, it's pretty plain who the petty people really are.


The Puppies really didn't nominate good writing. Most of it was dreck from people who just happened to be friends with the organizers of the movement. It's not ideological to not award dreck. If anything, the Puppies should be writing apologies to all of the deserving writers they pushed off the ballot for temper tantrum.
 
2015-08-23 11:15:52 AM  
For the folks backing the Puppies here since "SF has gone too far to the left/they don't recognize good writing", I'd like you to try and justify 3 out of the 5 novellas being written by the same guy.  Really, out of the entirety of SF novellas written in 2015, one guy was that far ahead of everyone else?

You can argue about what's the best out there. (I usually don't agree with the choices either)  But you also need to realize that perhaps, just perhaps, when you don't win awards it's not because your vastly superior skills are being ignored by the evil librul feminazis.  Perhaps it's just because most readers don't think you're as good as you think you are.

/Glad to see Cixin Liu win.
 
2015-08-23 11:19:38 AM  
It's not a conspiracy when assholes who act like assholes get pitched out on the street.  The reasons are... actually kind of obvious.

/except to other assholes.
 
2015-08-23 11:21:04 AM  

SuperSeriousMan: That the left reacted so viciously, personally and offensively merely proved their point.


Goddamn, I farking hate this attitude; "Sure, I repeatedly provoked you by acting dickishly for several years, but the fact that I eventually got you to fight back proves my point!".

It's like if somebody wanted to prove their neighbor was violent, so they punched them in the face, again and again until they finally got hit back, then gleefully pointed at their bloody nose as evidence of their neighbor's violent streak. Except in this case, the people voting "no award" were explicitly doing so to protest the award's politicization (they could have just used the Sad Puppies tactic against them and formed a left-wing vote block), so even if you ignore the provocation, they were still being more honorable than the SPs.
 
2015-08-23 11:21:28 AM  

MFAWG: The who and the what now? No seriously, somebody give me a précis. It's not like I'm going read the article.

Is this like when people were slapping Hollywood on the back for casting Will Smith in 'I, Robot' when the actual point of the story was that the human protagonist was African American?


More on how apparently subby is kvetching because there were categories in the Hugo Awards that weren't awarded this year due to most votes having to be thrown out thanks to a concerted vote-bombing effort by "Red Pill" members of the He-Man Woman-And-Colored-Folks-Haters Club (and by one particular obnoxious twunt by the name of Theodore Beale aka "Vox Day"--who got kicked out of SFWA for pretty much outright calling African-Americans nonhuman "savages" and who has publically called for women to be stripped of the vote--you know, the lovely sort of person who might fit in right at home at Stormfront.org) who--similar to their fellow travellers in the Gamergate He-Man Woman-Haters Club--were basically claiming bombing the vote in favour of 60-style "When Men Were Men, Women Were Orion Slave Girls, And The Xenos Were Afraid" popcorn sci-fi was actually all about ethics in sci-fi awards or some shiat.

It also doesn't help much that the same terrible person has essentially threatened to keep doing the same thing in coming years (namely, attempt to hijack the ballot to push their own agenda whilst calling the kettle an excessive tone of carbon).

A little on the voting here and some backgrounder on what led to this here (along with additional commentary on why those award categories had to be ditched for this year and why one nominee withdrew their submission).
 
2015-08-23 11:22:19 AM  
Also, that headline is hot garbage and subby and greenlighter should both be ashamed of spreading flat-out LIES. Wish I was still TF so I could downvote this.
 
2015-08-23 11:23:22 AM  

Anonymous Bosch:  If you really want or need white male dominated SF in your life, you have the entire first century of it to draw from.


Beyond that, It isn't a zero sum game. There is no shortage of swashbuckling male protagonist action/adventure sci-fi being written and published today. Just because the genre has expanded to include other things does not mean "classic" sci-fi (or whatever the hell you want to call it) goes away. Read what you like, it is out there, and Amazon is perfectly happy to sell it to you.

Sad puppies are pathetic whiners.
 
2015-08-23 11:24:22 AM  

Anonymous Bosch: Also, that headline is hot garbage and subby and greenlighter should both be ashamed of spreading flat-out LIES. Wish I was still TF so I could downvote this.


This is just Fark's long tradition of trollish headlines. As the voting indicated, most people involved are well aware that the Puppies are full of shiat so the obvious headline is to troll those people.
 
2015-08-23 11:27:00 AM  

SuperSeriousMan: SphericalTime: That's not what happened subby. Not at all.

But hey, the system works as it was supposed to. Those people that played politics lost.

I would say stubby hit the nail right on the head. The whole "vote no award" movement was pure politics and utterly childish. The fact that it won pretty much has killed any remnant of credibility the Hugo Awards once had.

I would say the puppies lost the battle but won the war in exposing what a crass, shallow, extremely exclusive view of "what is  real science fiction" group Worldcon has become.

And I thought the puppies slate was idiotic, and am far from their politics, but I also agreed with them that the pendulum had swung  way too far to the left. That the left reacted so viciously, personally and offensively merely proved their point.

I think this year finally exposed Worldcon and the Hugo's for what they have become: a "cool kids" table award where anyone who who doesn't fit their very narrow criteria is tossed out and labeled as "not really SF", which is both idiotic and goes against the entire spirit of SF.

But go ahead and pat yourself in the back for valiantly defeating the evil conservatives from destroying the pure and noble Hugos. Victory over BadThink is all but assured now.


Lol. Hey look, another person accusing others of cultish behavior is using the term badthink in exactly the way the puppies have declared it should be used.

The pendulum might be nominating works that you don't personally like the best right now, but the overall community of science fiction has grown, and the books being nominated and winning are the books that the larger community supports and thinks are the best. It has nothing to do with being conservative, except that a small group of authors that think of themselves as conservative apparently have decided that they don't need to write better to win awards, they should just get them as their due.

As far as the puppies, sad and rabid, are concerned, they're a clique that attempted to game the system and they lost because of that. And now they're accusing the larger and wider and more diverse community of science fiction of being a cult. Lol, wut? That group is comprised of more than just liberals. It includes hard SF people, epic fantasy people, woo-woo speculative people, super hero fans, of all different shapes, colors, religious backgrounds, and political affiliations. It's literally everyone else in the sci-fi and fantasy universe, hardly a groupthink cult like Brad and Larry claim.

You know why the puppies aren't allowed to take over? Because they're jerks.

They put their politics front and center, and are now claiming that's why they didn't win. No. It's because they're jerks. Sore losers and jerks.
 
2015-08-23 11:28:00 AM  
Has George RR Martin written a massive NOT A Blog piece about this yet, instead of working on his farking book?
 
2015-08-23 11:28:52 AM  

cirby: This is so the leftwing folks who have been pushing their ideology for the last few decades can show just how petty they can be when they start to lose to people who actually deserve to win for good writing, as opposed to being handed awards for telling the "correct" message.


Mmmmmm, I see. Vox Day is your standard bearer? Good to know.
 
2015-08-23 11:29:42 AM  
Awards like these made sense in the pre internet era when it was difficult to find reviews of many science fiction books, or anything for that matter that wasn't a New York Times bestseller. But now what's the point? Amazon will have dozens, if not hundreds, of reviews for any book you're considering reading. In addition, if you wants to play the game of ideological blindness, there's surely several blogs that match your values that will happily tell you what is considered good for members of your tribe. Being able to put 'Hugo Award Winner' on a book cover (for those who still buy hardcopies) has very little value compared to the days of Mom and Pop independent bookstores filled with unfamiliar titles in the 1980s.
 
2015-08-23 11:30:19 AM  
 
2015-08-23 11:32:01 AM  

Glockenspiel Hero: For the folks backing the Puppies here since "SF has gone too far to the left/they don't recognize good writing", I'd like you to try and justify 3 out of the 5 novellas being written by the same guy.  Really, out of the entirety of SF novellas written in 2015, one guy was that far ahead of everyone else?

You can argue about what's the best out there. (I usually don't agree with the choices either)  But you also need to realize that perhaps, just perhaps, when you don't win awards it's not because your vastly superior skills are being ignored by the evil librul feminazis.  Perhaps it's just because most readers don't think you're as good as you think you are.

/Glad to see Cixin Liu win.


You don't understand though!  For Science Fiction and Fantasy to go forward, it has to stay in the past and never change!
 
2015-08-23 11:32:28 AM  

She comes in colors everywhere: Has George RR Martin written a massive NOT A Blog piece about this yet, instead of working on his farking book?


I was joking.

I just went to the NOT A BLOG and found apiece so large it had to be broken into parts. Granted, this is just last week's predictions. I can't wait to see how ha avoids The Winds Of Winter by writing a post-Hugo piece:

http://grrm.livejournal.com/438199.html
http://grrm.livejournal.com/438310.html
 
2015-08-23 11:34:15 AM  
Also, did anyone win the "Rory Award for the Most Gratuitous Use of the Word 'Belgium?'"
 
2015-08-23 11:34:46 AM  

cirby: TuteTibiImperes: Subby has it a bit confused.  The rightwing fools who tried to game the system to push their ideology were shut out, which was a very wise move from the WSFS.

This is so the leftwing folks who have been pushing their ideology for the last few decades can show just how petty they can be when they start to lose to people who actually deserve to win for good writing, as opposed to being handed awards for telling the "correct" message.

When you hear about how the folks running the Hugos were acting before and during the awards, it's pretty plain who the petty people really are.


The best Sci-fi challenges current norms, and encourages change for the better.  You shouldn't win an award for re-writing the same type of story that has already been written a hundred thousand times.
 
2015-08-23 11:35:48 AM  

Anonymous Bosch: SuperSeriousMan: SphericalTime: That's not what happened subby. Not at all.

But hey, the system works as it was supposed to. Those people that played politics lost.

I would say stubby hit the nail right on the head. The whole "vote no award" movement was pure politics and utterly childish. The fact that it won pretty much has killed any remnant of credibility the Hugo Awards once had.

I would say the puppies lost the battle but won the war in exposing what a crass, shallow, extremely exclusive view of "what is  real science fiction" group Worldcon has become.

And I thought the puppies slate was idiotic, and am far from their politics, but I also agreed with them that the pendulum had swung  way too far to the left. That the left reacted so viciously, personally and offensively merely proved their point.

I think this year finally exposed Worldcon and the Hugo's for what they have become: a "cool kids" table award where anyone who who doesn't fit their very narrow criteria is tossed out and labeled as "not really SF", which is both idiotic and goes against the entire spirit of SF.

But go ahead and pat yourself in the back for valiantly defeating the evil conservatives from destroying the pure and noble Hugos. Victory over BadThink is all but assured now.

Oh, come off your farking cross. A Goddamned white supremacist misogynist dickbag tried to rig the awards and failed, and you're acting like that didn't merit some kind of reaction. If you really want or need white male dominated SF in your life, you have the entire first century of it to draw from.


Also, just to clarify, it was white man dominated sci-fi that the Puppies were promoting but white guy approved writing.

It wasn't that they nominated an entire slate of white guys, because they didn't. Instead, they nominated a slate of stories that didn't offend them by being ideologically different than what they liked. They were trying to exclude the opinions and ideology of different people, not the people themselves.

They ended up with a slate picked by basically only three men, all of whom seem to be culturally white and conservative. No dissenting works were intended to be allowed.
 
2015-08-23 11:35:52 AM  

cirby: When you hear about how the folks running the Hugos were acting before and during the awards, it's pretty plain who the petty people really are.


Petty people like this guy. Okay, Sad Puppy, defend your standard bearer. Put your money where your mouth is.
 
2015-08-23 11:39:24 AM  
Oops. In my previous comment that should have been: It was _not_ white man dominated science fiction . . .
 
2015-08-23 11:41:11 AM  

Great Porn Dragon: one particular obnoxious twunt by the name of Theodore Beale aka "Vox Day"--who got kicked out of SFWA for pretty much outright calling African-Americans nonhuman "savages"


I started reading that and thought, "whatever, two uptight assholes are having a slap fight".  But then, after a few paragraphs....holy sheepshiat, that is one racist asshole.
 
2015-08-23 11:42:44 AM  

PanicMan: The best Sci-fi challenges current norms, and encourages change for the better. You shouldn't win an award for re-writing the same type of story that has already been written a hundred thousand times.


Wait, are you telling me that a novel about a vast interstellar war, another novel about a vast interstellar war, a novel about an indestructible monster-hunting paramilitary guy, and a novel about an indestructible paramilitary guy defending Earth from a vast interstellar war aren't new and fresh sci-fi concepts?

The hell you say!
 
2015-08-23 11:45:20 AM  

PanicMan: cirby: TuteTibiImperes: Subby has it a bit confused.  The rightwing fools who tried to game the system to push their ideology were shut out, which was a very wise move from the WSFS.

This is so the leftwing folks who have been pushing their ideology for the last few decades can show just how petty they can be when they start to lose to people who actually deserve to win for good writing, as opposed to being handed awards for telling the "correct" message.

When you hear about how the folks running the Hugos were acting before and during the awards, it's pretty plain who the petty people really are.

The best Sci-fi challenges current norms, and encourages change for the better.  You shouldn't win an award for re-writing the same type of story that has already been written a hundred thousand times.


s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2015-08-23 11:49:17 AM  

theorellior: Petty people like this guy.


So very happy to be out of fandom.
 
2015-08-23 11:50:40 AM  

theorellior: cirby: When you hear about how the folks running the Hugos were acting before and during the awards, it's pretty plain who the petty people really are.

Petty people like this guy. Okay, Sad Puppy, defend your standard bearer. Put your money where your mouth is.


i.imgur.comView Full Size


I seriously thought I'd accidentally visited stormfront.
 
2015-08-23 11:58:36 AM  

PanicMan: Wired has a great write-up on this.

http://www.wired.com/2015/08/won-science-fictions-hugo-awards-matter s/


"'Ooh, we're going to vote for this author because they're not white.' As soon as that becomes the criteria, well, quality goes out the window.""
Thanks, Obama!
 
2015-08-23 12:06:13 PM  

John Nash: Great Porn Dragon: one particular obnoxious twunt by the name of Theodore Beale aka "Vox Day"--who got kicked out of SFWA for pretty much outright calling African-Americans nonhuman "savages"

I started reading that and thought, "whatever, two uptight assholes are having a slap fight".  But then, after a few paragraphs....holy sheepshiat, that is one racist asshole.


The puppies are confused and upset that you think Beale is a racist when the real racists are literally everyone else that doesn't agree with them.
 
2015-08-23 12:09:55 PM  

WelldeadLink: PanicMan: Wired has a great write-up on this.

http://www.wired.com/2015/08/won-science-fictions-hugo-awards-matter s/

"'Ooh, we're going to vote for this author because they're not white.' As soon as that becomes the criteria, well, quality goes out the window.""
Thanks, Obama!


The idea that Puppies care about quality of writing died as soon as people started reading what they nominated.
 
2015-08-23 12:10:13 PM  

BumpInTheNight: I seriously thought I'd accidentally visited stormfront.


You did, basically.
 
2015-08-23 12:10:43 PM  

IgG4: Beyond that, It isn't a zero sum game...Just because the genre has expanded to include other things does not mean "classic" sci-fi (or whatever the hell you want to call it) goes away


"Life is a zero sum game" is the Prime Directive for many conservatives.

If someone else suffers, they feel they are winning. If someone else prospers, they take it as a personal affront.
 
2015-08-23 12:10:59 PM  

Tyrone Slothrop: "Sad puppies" thought that O'Brien was the good guy in 1984.


Sad Puppies think that Serena Joy would have made a great mother.
 
2015-08-23 12:23:11 PM  
Having read some more about this, I still don't agree with the Puppies' assertions at all but I definitely think that letting Beale hitch his aspirations to their campaign was a tremendous mistake. His goal is to make himself the center of attention, period. He believes some horrible shiat, but he will gladly say worse shiat just because he likes making people angry.

This is an ongoing problem with conservative politics, honestly: they're okay with surface readings, and the people who say the right things don't have their motivations scrutinized sufficiently. Intent and character matter, and casting about desperately for any influential ally you can find is self-defeating.
 
2015-08-23 12:24:06 PM  

theorellior: PanicMan: The best Sci-fi challenges current norms, and encourages change for the better. You shouldn't win an award for re-writing the same type of story that has already been written a hundred thousand times.

Wait, are you telling me that a novel about a vast interstellar war, another novel about a vast interstellar war, a novel about an indestructible monster-hunting paramilitary guy, and a novel about an indestructible paramilitary guy defending Earth from a vast interstellar war aren't new and fresh sci-fi concepts?

The hell you say!


Seriously though, a lot of scifi is bad.  Really bad.  And boring.  And sooo predictable.  "Lone hero swoops into a primitive society, solves all their problems, and teaches them how great it is to be civilized".  Hey wait a minute that's just colonialism with a time-shift.   You can't claim 16th century ideals as something a)desirable or b)in any way futuristic.
 
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