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(MSNBC)   Are you a terrorist and out of good ideas? The American media can help!   (msnbc.com) divider line 43
    More: Asinine  
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7136 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Dec 2001 at 8:38 AM (13 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



43 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2001-12-20 08:41:21 AM  
YIKES! Who let the freak out?
 
2001-12-20 08:42:09 AM  
Allah be praised! I shall make those filthy infidels read "The Schmews!" Muahahaha!
 
fb-
2001-12-20 08:42:39 AM  
Nah, I bought that last year.
 
2001-12-20 08:52:24 AM  
Nice one, have to bring this up at the international evil-doers convention next week.
 
2001-12-20 09:07:30 AM  
Granted, terrorists MAY be dumb enough to have not known about this stuff, but anybody with a high school education already does. (Or should)
 
2001-12-20 09:12:36 AM  
This kind of shiat really pisses me off. I was reading an article the other day on yahoo or msnbc or cnn that listed like the top 10 most vulnerable chemical plants in the US that terrorists could easily target. What kinda shiat is that? If I didn't know any better then I'd think that....the.terrorists.have.already.won...
 
2001-12-20 09:13:07 AM  
A few weeks ago there was a news story about a chemical weapons storage area in a town near where I live, and they said that if someone could, you know, dive a plane into it, it could kill everyone within a whatever mile radius.

I felt the same way then. What good does it do the citizenry to know this? It just makes us more paranoid. But it sure is good to let people with ill intentions know just where our weaknesses are.
 
2001-12-20 09:14:31 AM  
Quite right Lordsam, we dont want the facts about anything in case the evil ones find out.

Lets close down the media!
 
fb-
2001-12-20 09:21:52 AM  
If we get angry when sensitive information like yellow and blue make green is let out in a public forum for the terrorists to see, then the fear mongers have already won.
 
2001-12-20 09:26:04 AM  
"This is a terrorist's dream," says Bill Dollinger, director of FoA's office in Washington D.C. "There are unlimited things a terrorist could do with this chemical. They could throw it in a swimming pool - anything they wanted."

give me more ideas Bill, not the whole population have swimming pools, what about the sewage system?
 
2001-12-20 09:29:32 AM  
I must be ill... I agree with Fb-!

Maybe he's ill...
 
2001-12-20 09:32:29 AM  
I am constantly drinking from the sewage system.
 
2001-12-20 09:50:33 AM  
Fear mongers! What a great term. I heard a story that some people won't let their kids go get the mail and make them go inside the house if they see a plane flying overhead. These have to be the most gullible, paranoid people on the planet.
 
2001-12-20 10:02:23 AM  
Or maybe we're ill, Dido, 'cause I do to.

"Hmmmmmm -- sodium monoflouricious -- aaahhhrrrlllggghh..."
 
2001-12-20 10:02:40 AM  
I've been feeding this shiat to my mother for years and the biatch won't die! It's a lie!
 
TV
2001-12-20 10:52:42 AM  
Warning: Terrorists could nuke US, we believe that this is how they may try to go about it:

1. Obtain bomb building materials and technology
2. Build bomb
3. Drop on U.S.

Citizens are advised to relinquish all rights to privacy and free speech to ensure this does not happen.
 
2001-12-20 11:30:06 AM  
The road runner could have used this decades ago!
 
2001-12-20 11:45:33 AM  
Big deal. I thought of this stuff years ago. Any rancher who uses it has thought "what if?" when he has a fued with a neighbor. "Gee sheriff, I don't know why rancher Bill chewed on that coyote collar he found."

Sewage or swimming pools? You can do better than that. What about the California Aquaduct? 400 miles of an open man-made river providing someting like 70% of the water for LA. Dump a few hundred pounds of this stuff in the water anywhere along the route. For that matter, take out the Grapevine pumping station and cut off mnost of the water to LA. There's no way enough water could be shipped in. The ensuing panic and attempted evacuation alone would take out several thousand.

As for worrying about what ideas the bad guys have, it's pretty well guaranteed they've already come up with many more ways that have never occurred to the rest of us. Before 9/11, did anyone have the faintest idea that there would be multiple hijackings with the intent of suicide carshing them into major buildings? Nope. I'd say be more worried about the things you can't imagine than the ones you can because you can always work out a defense for what you can imagine.
 
2001-12-20 11:56:35 AM  
Does Ashcroft know the media printed this?

You know, since Osama was sending coded "attack" messages in his speeches, we'd better not have any news for a while.

let's all just fark and get along......
 
2001-12-20 12:06:07 PM  
"It's one of the ugliest ways of dying you can imagine."


Second only to sticking your head in a woodchipper
 
2001-12-20 12:10:44 PM  
This article reminded me of the Princess Bride..

"No more rhymes now, I mean it!"

"Anybody want a peanut?"

AAAARRRRRRGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!
 
2001-12-20 12:13:48 PM  
Almost all media outlets on every level does irresponsible shiat like this all the time. I remember when "spud guns" were all the rage; the local news channels showed how to make one. When there were some arrests for homemade speed labs, the local news showed all of the ingredients needed to take Sudafed and turn it into speed. When McVeigh blew up the Federal Building in OKC, every outlet scrambled to be the first to show me how to build a bomb just like it.
 
rpm
2001-12-20 12:16:58 PM  
Shouldn't this get an obvious tag? Let's see - it kills animals, there's a good chance it will kill humans. This is a surprise to exactly who?
 
2001-12-20 12:47:03 PM  
Amazing....1984 happening right before my eyes. The government bombs its own territory. Creates a bad guy and then tells you that it is stripping you of your rights for your own protection and you all can't wait to give up your freedoms. Anthrax?! What a farking joke!

Terrorists!?!?

How about "US Government sponsored behavior modificators"!?!
 
2001-12-20 12:48:40 PM  
Somebody use this pic in the next photoshop please?

 
2001-12-20 12:52:58 PM  
Didn't the Nazis also come up with anthrax?

That's what you get for hiring Nazi scientists.
 
2001-12-20 01:00:35 PM  
Mother Nature came up with anthrax. It is a naturally occurring bacterium found in all sorts of livestock. I'm not sure who thought it would be a good idea to turn it into a bio-weapon though.
 
2001-12-20 01:16:54 PM  
Yeah. Banning this stuff will prevent terrorists from using it much in the same way that Columbine was prevented by laws restricting minors from owning weapons; the way the drug war ended drug use in America; and the way compulsory pilot licensing kept the WTC disaster from happening.

Idiots.
 
2001-12-20 01:22:31 PM  
Or, they could grind up some Ebola corpses and spread them around Times square Jan 1.

Oops! That was supposed to be Top Secret!!!

Now, come on, I think they know about poison, folks!
 
2001-12-20 01:24:13 PM  
You fools are overlooking Cheez-Whiz! In fact, anything that is labeled "Cheese" spelled with a "z" is a potential bio-weapon. Nachos should be outlawed!
 
2001-12-20 01:24:39 PM  
The Nazis used it to control "rodents" in "warehouses"!

snikr...
 
2001-12-20 01:48:22 PM  
Neapoi: That was the first thing I thought too.

Vizzini: He didn't fall!!? Inconceivable!!!

Inigo Montoya: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
 
2001-12-20 01:50:37 PM  
I'm on the brute squad.
 
2001-12-20 01:51:26 PM  
A few weeks ago in USA Today they had an article on the Command Center for the war in Afghanistan. They gave the location, and even had a map giving directions on how to get there! Traitors!
 
2001-12-20 02:28:36 PM  
"These collars contain rubber bladders filled with the poison. When a predator such as a coyote attacks, it ingests the poison and wanders off to die, sometimes up to a mile away, where scavengers can then feed on its remains".

That'll learn 'em
 
2001-12-20 02:31:56 PM  
I just couldn't help thinking, "Never trust a Sicilian when death is on the line...ah ha ha ah ha ha ah ha ha...*thud*" - The Princess Bride
 
2001-12-20 03:14:38 PM  
No Such Agency: here's a photoshop for ya. It doesn't really make any sense, but then again, they rarely do.

 
2001-12-20 04:40:25 PM  
Damn, I didn't think it sucked bad enough to kill the thread...
 
2001-12-20 05:06:13 PM  
yes well, maybe you'll think about it a bit more next time ,young man.
Go to your room.
 
2001-12-20 06:42:46 PM  
"Originally developed in the 1940s in Nazi Germany to control rodents in warehouses,"

Yeah, to control rodents, sure...



By the way, I was going to say something about that graphic because it's one of the most useless "infographics" I've ever seen. It's just a bunch of junk plopped on top of a US map. It doesn't tell a story. It doesn't explain anything. Why does the "push" have a biohazard symbol behind it? Aren't what's going to be "pushed" meant to counter biohazards??
 
2001-12-20 09:43:34 PM  
for those who dont read things here is the whole stupid thing

Compound 1080: Invisible threat?

Groups warn toxin could
be used by terrorists
Compound 1080 is labeled by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency as a "super poison" and controlled under the Pesticide Control Act.



By Ursula Owre Masterson
MSNBC



NEW YORK, Dec. 19 - It is a "colorless, odorless, tasteless poison. ... One teaspoon can kill up to 100 adult humans and there is no antidote." So begins a recent letter to Tom Ridge by two U.S. conservation groups, urging his Office of Homeland Security to ban the pest-killing compound sodium monoflouroacetate - more commonly known as Compound 1080. "The implications for its usage as a chemical weapon are frighteningly obvious," concludes the first paragraph of the "emergency request."



















THE LITTLE-KNOWN chemical, which is water soluble and used primarily to kill coyotes and other predators in the American West, has been a hot-button topic among animal rights groups for the past three decades. But since Sept. 11, there's a new concern: If Compound 1080 fell into the hands of terrorists, experts say, the lethal substance could be used as a deadly weapon.
In October, Dr. Sander Orent, a toxicologist with Arbor Occupational Medicine in Colorado, wrote to Rep. Peter DeFazio, D-Ore., urging him to work on outlawing the poison. "I urge you to act promptly to ban this substance so that there is no possibility of it falling into the wrong hands. I say this from both a toxicologic and a biological perspective."
Then, earlier this month, two groups - the Oregon-based Predator Defense Institute and the international Friends of Animals - joined forces, writing letters to the White House and the Environmental Protection Agency saying that Compound 1080 has become an "urgent matter of national security."
The EPA turned down the conservation groups' request to ban use of the poison, but opponents aren't giving up.
"There's no way anyone could come up with enough [Compound 1080] to pose a major terrorist threat... It's like people using Sept. 11 to raise money for bogus charities."
- STEVE KELTON
Editor, "Livestock Weekly" "This is a terrorist's dream," says Bill Dollinger, director of FoA's office in Washington D.C. "There are unlimited things a terrorist could do with this chemical. They could throw it in a swimming pool - anything they wanted."
The FoA's letter says that, according to the book "Clinical and Diagnostic Veterinary Toxicology," "some countries have investigated [Compound 1080] as a possible chemical warfare agent for addition to water supplies."
Ranchers in Texas and throughout the Western states say their opponents are needlessly alarming the public.
"This is a completely ridiculous idea. There's no way anyone could come up with enough to pose a major terrorist threat," said Steve Kelton, a longtime rancher and editor of Livestock Weekly. "This is just an opportunistic effort to try to ban the [compound]. It's like people using Sept. 11 to raise money for bogus charities."
In a long-running battle, which until now has been restricted primarily to wildlife conservation and ranching circles, those in the industry have argued that they need poisons like 1080 to protect their animals - and their livelihoods.

BANNED, THEN REVIVED
Originally developed in the 1940s in Nazi Germany to control rodents in warehouses, the lethal chemical has had a checkered history in the United States.
Advertisement




President Nixon issued an executive order in 1972 banning the compound, but 10 years later the Reagan administration bowed to pressure from ranchers and approved it expressly for killing coyotes.
Labeled by the EPA as a "super poison," it is now controlled under the Pesticide Control Act as a "permit-restricted pesticide," the highest restriction possible, outside of a ban.
Today, Compound 1080 may be used legally only in "livestock protection collars," which ranchers put on their sheep. These collars contain rubber bladders filled with the poison. When a predator such as a coyote attacks, it ingests the poison and wanders off to die, sometimes up to a mile away, where scavengers can then feed on its remains.
Although the collars must be used under the supervision of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, a debate rages between ranchers and conservationists, not only about the collars' effectiveness, but about their control.

The livestock protection collar is currently the only legal way of distributing Compound 1080. According to the USDA's Animal Damage Control program, each collar contains enough poison to kill six 150-pound human adults.

The Predator Defense Institute maintains that collars often fall off in places where they can either poison other animals, including the livestock they were meant to protect, or be stockpiled by farmers for potentially illegal use later on in "open bait" traps.

DEATH IN TWO HOURS
"This is one of the most concentrated poisons on Earth," said Brooks Fahy, the institute's executive director. An Oregon-based conservationist, Fahy says the state banned Compound 1080 in 1998 because of possible Advertisement


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public safety risks. Now, he says, in this post-9/11 era, the potential for misuse is too great to ignore.
"Since all this crazy stuff's been happening, I can't think of a drug that would be better used for assassinations, or by terrorists," he said. "It looks just like salt and is completely nontraceable. Basically, it mimics a heart attack, with massive convulsions. It's one of the ugliest ways of dying you can imagine."
According to Dr. Orent, the poison works "by starving cells of oxygen by interrupting critical, metabolic processes in the body. After ingestion, symptoms begin within 30 minutes and death may occur within two hours."

CHEMICAL ABUSE



Stockpiling
A biological or chemical attack on a U.S. city would probably overwhelm local medical resources. To quickly equip a city under attack, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have set up strategic stockpiles of specialized medical supplies.
Planning a push
If local and state emergency officials -- in conference with the CDC -- agree that an attack has occurred and local medical supplies are likely insufficient, a ''push package'' is deployed. The packages -- stockpiled drugs, vaccines and medical supplies -- are held in eight guarded warehouses nationwide, where they can reach any city in the U.S., including Alaska and Hawaii, within 12 hours.
Packages deployed
Assembled in over 100 air cargo containers, each push package fills a Boeing 747. A plane delivers the package to a commercial or military airport equipped to unload and secure it. Then the package is transferred to ground transport -- either Federal Express or United Parcel Service.
Tracking resources
State and local officials coordinate and track the distribution of the package to medical facilities, ensuring a balance of supply and demand. If necessary, the CDC deploys more push packages or specific supplies from private medical or pharmaceutical companies.

Printable version
Source: Center for Disease Control
In rejecting the conservationists' request to ban the poison's use in livestock collars, the EPA told the groups in a letter that it had "placed a number of unique controls on this compound in order to ensure its security and appropriate use."
And even if the EPA did an about-face, Compound 1080's advocates are quick to point out that a ban wouldn't include a recall of stockpiles already in existence.
Still, opponents say that as long as the chemical continues to be produced in this country, the potential risks far outweigh the benefits from the number of coyotes killed - 27 in the year 2000, according to government estimates. They have also collected numerous examples in which Compound 1080 has either been used ineffectively - or in some cases - outright abused.



Over the summer, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service issued a public health alert because the chemical was being illegally spread in central Idaho.
And last year, four gray wolves - now protected by the Endangered Species Act - were found dead in Idaho after they were illegally poisoned with the substance. Afterward, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife service warned that illegal baits could pose a threat to children and pets, as well as other wildlife.
In another disturbing event, Compound 1080 was used earlier this year in Grand Junction, Colo., to kill more than 60 dogs, cats and birds.
Though such instances may seem relatively insignificant when it comes to national security, conservation groups argue that when it comes to Compound 1080, it's not "if," but "when."
"The line in the sand has changed. If it's out there, it's going to fall into the wrong hands" said Fahy. "Whatever type of radical you can think of, we're going to start seeing these kind of things happen more and more."

POTENTIAL LOOPHOLES
Although the EPA keeps track of the collars out there, there is no follow-up if they fall off animals. Plus, as Fish and Wildlife Special Agent Paul Weyland points out, it is not illegal to possess the chemical as long as it was obtained before Nixon's ban in 1972.
Dangerous loopholes, according to Compound 1080's detractors.


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In the United States, only one manufacturer - the Tull Chemical Co. in Oxford, Ala. - currently produces the compound, but it ships thousands of pounds internationally. The conservation groups calling for a ban recently asked the EPA to provide documents under the Freedom of Information Act showing how much Compound 1080 is stockpiled in the United States and how much is exported.
They are still awaiting a response, both from the EPA and Ridge's office.

HARD TO USE EN MASSE
Meanwhile, a debate is brewing about just how likely a terrorist attack with Compound 1080 really is, and how devastating it might be.
"There is no question this is a dangerous substance, and any highly toxic compound has the potential for being used by a terrorist," said Dr. Gary Osweiler, a veterinary toxicologist at Iowa State University who has conducted extensive research on the poison. "But even if you could gather it, it would be difficult to use en masse."
Dr. William Buck, a retired author and toxicologist who has studied the lethal chemical with Osweiler, agrees, but added that an attack on a public swimming pool could have a devastating effect.
"Just like anthrax," said Buck, "Compound 1080 could cause a lot of psychological panic, and that's probably not what the country needs right now."

MSNBC's Ursula Owre Masterson is based in New York City.




President Bush has given former Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Ridge the job of managing the government's efforts to deter and respond to terrorist attacks. "Homeland security" - protecting Americans on U.S. soil - is a complex mission requiring the coordinated work of dozens of federal, state and local agencies.


TRACKING TERRORIST SUSPECTS
State Department: Screen visa applications, check against list of known terrorists.
CIA: Spy on terrorist suspects abroad.
FBI: Spy on terrorist suspects within the United States.
Immigration and Naturalization Service: Deport foreigners who overstay visas; detain those who pose security risks.


GUARDING INFRASTRUCTURE AND PEOPLE
Air Force: Shoot down hijacked commercial flights aimed at ground targets.
National Guard: Help screen passengers at airports.
Coast Guard: Screen vessels entering U.S. ports, inspect cargo manifests and crew lists.
Agriculture Department: Inspect meat and crops to detect disease outbreaks.
Private sector: Owners of oil and gas pipelines and power facilities provide guards and surveillance.


FIRST RESPONDERS
Emergency medical technicians, hospital ER doctors and nurses: Treat victims of terror attacks.



MAINTAINING ORDER
Police and National Guard: Enforce quarantines, deter looting, evacuate population.
Army units: President can impose martial law and order Army to quell rioting, enforce quarantines.


DIAGNOSING EPIDEMICS
Federal Centers for Disease Control: Deploy response teams to investigate suspicious illnesses;conduct lab tests to identify biological and chemical weapons; maintain stockpile of pharmaceuticals to treat victims.
State public health departments: Investigate suspicious disease clusters.


INVESTIGATING AND PROSECUTING
FBI: Gather evidence for criminal cases.
Justice Department: Prosecute those who aid and abet terrorists.


REBUILDING AND DECONTAMINATING
Federal Emergency Management Agency: Provide grants for temporary housing or emergency repair; mortgage and rental assistance; disaster unemployment assistance.
Environmental Protection Agency: Analyze air, soil and water for the presence of pollutants.


RESTORING FINANCIAL STABILITY
Congress: May provide subsidies for affected sectors of economy, such as insurance industry.
State and federal unemployment funds: May provide jobless benefits beyond 26-week maximum.


Source: MSNBC research






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2001-12-20 09:45:26 PM  
yes i spent 2 hours writing this. Im only 10.



from the coolest cat around.....
 
2001-12-21 02:28:24 AM  
All of this shiat is in the public domain, kids. If they wanted it, they could get it. They probably didn't even have to use the Freedom of Information Act to get this.
 
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