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(SFGate)   Powell assures Indians that the flow of jobs from the U.S. to their country will not be stemmed   (sfgate.com) divider line 325
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10211 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Mar 2004 at 4:11 PM (10 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2004-03-17 04:45:34 PM
I don't know what the fuss is about. You pay half the price to offshore, and get a total crap product. Same way you pay 7.99 for a handle of Popov. Have any of you ever seen code that's come back from India or even Canada? You get what you pay for. If its good enough for you, i.e. Popov when you're 16, go for it.
 
2004-03-17 04:46:34 PM
"Consumers want to pay less for goods and services "

Then why doesn't outsourcing EVER result in lower prices for goods and services?
 
2004-03-17 04:46:54 PM
meh, the real problem is that the typical IT worker here in the states is a whiny, overpaid moron who spends most of his day on fark or slashdot.

i'm a programmer in a very small, niche market. when some of our clients have problems, i need to talk to someone on their end who knows their hardware. this is often their in-house support line. i'd say that maybe 1 out of 20 of these dedicated 'support' people i've dealt with had the foggiest clue what they were doing.
 
2004-03-17 04:46:56 PM
We *must* outsource to India. That way, business isn't disrupted when we start that military draft for all the techies....

/does tin-foil protect against flame?
 
2004-03-17 04:47:05 PM
You know, if the Bush administration cared anything about America, then they would do the American thing, and mandate that corporations overpay a bunch of lazy slugs to do work that any Chinese guy could do better for half the cost.

I mean, so what if the end result of outsourcing is that my TV is cheaper, and my computer is cheaper and my telephone service is cheaper and my car is cheaper, and my food is cheaper, and everything I buy is cheaper, and it ends up putting more money in my pocket? Think of the American people, and more disposable income be damned! The important thing is that we continue to undermine the ability of corporations to hire people by making them overpay for the ones they already have.

I think that the whole of the American populace having less money is a small price to pay to ensure that fat lazy Joe continues to make $26/hour doing a job that any trained monkey could do.
 
2004-03-17 04:47:49 PM

MrPerspicacious


Are you illiterate? The cost of production for my old 250MB hard drive is the same as for a 320GB hard drive today, because both were produced in third world countries! The cost of production is the same! Yet the cost to the consumer has gone down anyway.

Do I need to repeat myself again?


No, there'd be no point.
 
nfw
2004-03-17 04:48:25 PM

MrPerspicacious

Last time I saw the classifieds, there were still a lot of jobs listed.


Just so you know, a lot of the jobs in ads are fake, recruiters put them there just to get resumes.
 
2004-03-17 04:49:45 PM
Workers should retrain....riiiiiight because unemployed people have LOADS of money to throw at re-educating themselves. Nothing like taking on ANOTHER student loan while dodging creditors trying to collect on your old one. What the hell?
 
2004-03-17 04:49:47 PM
skinink

Give you a freaking link? Any report on jobs right now will be positive, although it may be presented in a negative way to may you think it's bad. How can a 5.6% federal unemployment rate be bad? It can't. And you know what? It's been steadily getting better. Jobs come and jobs go. I lost my job three years ago. Did I biatch about the government? No, because it wasn't there fault, and it's not their responsibility. I went out and got a new job in an entirely different field within two days. I hated the job, but did it for a year until I got somethin better.
 
2004-03-17 04:50:04 PM
"Then why doesn't outsourcing EVER result in lower prices for goods and services?"

Um, must be the giant international corporate conspiracy to raise the prices on everything, working overtime as always. Yep, that's why such a positive result NEVER happens. EVER. You know, like inflation-adjusted prices for computers- much higher today than in say 1990, with probably even less computing power, right? Or automobiles- I hear it's never been more difficult to purchase a new car. Things were much, much better, and cheaper, 20 or 25 years ago.
 
2004-03-17 04:50:12 PM
I favor a global free-market economy, yet I care more about human rights than how well corporations are doing. We need to empower workers worldwide, so corporations cannot take advantage of them. The problem with much of the current "outsourcing" is that workers are abused offshore, and US workers will not allow the same amount of abuse.... SO it seems unfair to us, well it IS unfair, and immoral..... We need to oust those in office who favor corporate welfare over individual human welfare.

/gets off his high horse
 
2004-03-17 04:50:14 PM
I second Brockway
 
2004-03-17 04:50:18 PM
We're not outsourcing jobs! We're providing Indians with the financial freedom to purchase more Good Old American products! Like Coca-Cola!!!

/yeppers
 
2004-03-17 04:50:51 PM
My job went to Hadji, a streetwise Hindu boy...

/Johnny Quest
 
2004-03-17 04:51:09 PM
I tried to get help with my all in one HP printer this weekend. Habib explained to me that since it had been more than on year since my purchase, i had to call a 900# at $2.50/minute for answers to my routine questions. My alternative was to pay a flat rate $35 for unlimited time. Considering that it took me 10 minutes to understand what he was saying, the $35 looked to be the lesser of two evils. I declined both.
 
2004-03-17 04:51:33 PM
Where is Kyan2 when you need him? Oh ya he is probably answering a phone.
 
2004-03-17 04:51:55 PM
missmez

Don't mess with my country, Chad... or else they will... uh... famine you! (that seems to be about all they are good at- well that and armed revolution, and getting invaded).
 
2004-03-17 04:52:50 PM
I agree manderx, there was such a surge of this IT crap in the mid-late nineties I'd say I predicted both the bubble and this surge of unemployment. Everyone I knew was going to college for IT and I told all of them that this would happen. All us unemployed (or self employed) tech workers should get together and found a company like GoreTex or something where everyone gets an even cut, then compete directly with the companies outsourcing to India or just make a bunch of random crap that will make money. I wonder how long until we start making a profit that we fire half the staff and hire those "false-god-worshiping-inbred-bastards from India" to continue the manufacturing. But that would be wrong..but so is the fact that I'm driving a 2003 LS 500 when I really deserve the 2004
 
2004-03-17 04:53:26 PM




Thank you very much sir. Please come again
 
2004-03-17 04:54:21 PM
Farkowski: So Chad is Africa's France?
 
2004-03-17 04:55:37 PM
For every 100 or so jobs shipped there, we should make them open a Wendy's, McDonalds, or a Sonic. Get those people eating meat!
 
2004-03-17 04:56:00 PM
When the company I worked for went down the tube in '99, I did some Tax-free security for trade shows and a little web design, I worked at a parts counter and as a receptionist/data entry for a private accountant. Yeah, the jobs were low paying and dull, but it beat sitting around the house smoking dope and blaming Clinton for the Dotcom bubble bursting. It also made my resume look a little wild having 3 low paying temp jobs in 6 months, but it showed the guys who hired me that I would rather work than collect unemployment and biatch.

Those jobs aren't guranteed to you when you get out of college either. My sister worked for temp companies and she continued to wait tables with her degree for a while. That was 15 or 16 years ago.
 
2004-03-17 04:56:04 PM
When explaning this to the president, how many times did Powell have to say "No, sir, India-Indians..."?
 
2004-03-17 04:56:40 PM
eddie irvine - Of course that's going to be the case. Always. Brings us bax to the Wal-Mart paradox. We all want goods and services that were manufactured in clean, safe places that provide their workers with a living wage. But nobody wants to pay for that.

You mentioned the quality being similar at company A and company B. If company A outsources tech support and company B doesn't, the quality isn't the same. I personally don't want crappy tech support by some clueless "tech" in another country that can't even speak the same language to become an American way of life. I'm personally sick and farking tired of waiting in traffic in construction zones, paying 35% of my pay to taxes, male enhancement pill commercials, and not being able to reach an American tech on my American computer in America.
 
2004-03-17 04:56:45 PM
As long as the stem cell research isn't stemmed from Sweden, all will be well.
 
2004-03-17 04:56:49 PM
MrPerspicacious, there has been a dramatic shift in what companies pay their workers, without a comparable change in cost of living. A desperate workforce is what business wants, and is what they've got now.
 
rpm
2004-03-17 04:57:05 PM
MrPerspicacious

5.6% is the amount on unemployment, not unemployed. After benefits run out, they fall off the rolls.
 
2004-03-17 04:57:28 PM
I agree manderx, there was such a surge of this IT crap in the mid-late nineties I'd say I predicted both the bubble and this surge of unemployment.

Don't forget how much modernization money was spent on Y2K... a lot of early upgrading happened then and wouldn't be expected to occur again in the near future.
 
2004-03-17 04:58:30 PM
eddie_irvine

People act as if there was never a job lost until Bush became President.

You do realize we're talking about net job loss, right? Because, in fact, since Hoover there was never a net job loss until Bush became President.
 
2004-03-17 04:58:43 PM
just think outside the box here, folks - in 50 years, the economies of the "current outsource recipients" will be so fine and the US will be so fooked up that maybe they can start outsourcing back to us and we will be happy again.

/riiight
 
2004-03-17 04:59:58 PM
I favor a global free-market economy, yet I care more about human rights than how well corporations are doing. We need to empower workers worldwide, so corporations cannot take advantage of them. The problem with much of the current "outsourcing" is that workers are abused offshore, and US workers will not allow the same amount of abuse....



But, no American programmer ever worked more than an 8-hour day? Please... I bet it would interest you to know that the average tech-contractor salary in India for the big companies like Wipro has tripled in the past 5 years.
 
2004-03-17 05:00:08 PM
I called JC Penny and got Shimshad somewhere in India. She didn't know what the heck she was talking about. She couldn't understand my problem. Either it was a language barrier, training problem or both.

Then she refused to tranfer me stateside. I asked for the number and she told me there was no number to give. She said to call back multiple times and maybe I would get Florida.

I gave up and called a local store and got the phone number.
 
2004-03-17 05:00:47 PM
ghare:

Outsourcing is wonderful, we just have to accept that we'll all be living like the Indians do now in a few years.


How many years, exactly? Because people have been saying that about foreign imports for at least 40 years.
 
2004-03-17 05:00:58 PM
killthewabbit, I hear you. That's why it's important to be an informed consumer. Unfortunately, with our education system, that's unlikely.
 
2004-03-17 05:01:09 PM
And to think I was actually unsure who to vote for this year...

Thanks Colin...you just pushed it right over the edge...now go deny you ordered the massacre of women and children during 'Nam, again.

/look it up
 
2004-03-17 05:01:36 PM
elweedz

I tried to get help with my all in one HP printer this weekend.

Heh... I used to write the drivers for those printers. Well, the mac drivers anyway. Until my company lost the contract to a company in India...



On a separate note: 5.6% unemployment is meaningless. I'm not part of that percentage, because the last two jobs I've held did not last long enough for me to qualify for unemployment.

Isn't it funny how the unemployment rate started dropping right around the holiday season last year, when companies are hiring seasonal people to deal with the christmas rush? The problem is if someone gets a seasonal position, hoping to find a job by the time the position ends, and then doesn't get a new job right away they do not qualify for unemployment. Therefore the unemployment rate would be artifically lowered, since these people cannot claim again.
 
2004-03-17 05:01:43 PM
I have a question, and I admit I know little about big business...but, America gives a company here alot of breaks. Tax breaks, loans, etc. They also don't have to pay the same rates as a company from China that is bringing in their products to sell. So if after all these breaks that our Government has paid for they decide to build plants in other countries, where they can pay $2.00 an hour and don't have to care about safety conditions or who gets their fingers cut off, why do they still get the breaks? I mean if the money is going to China or India where ever and not here what's the difference between these companies, and companies in Japan, or China or where ever. I mean yeah, they have an American name, and they have their hand out for any goodies Uncle Sam will toss to them, but THAT money is going to workers in another country, and so are most of the taxes. What we are getting out of the bail outs, the cheap loans and tax incentives they have recieved. Ok, to break even they have gone to cheaper labor overseas, but if the money is going with them, why doesn't the gravy train stop and they get treated like any other non-American company? Just asking.
 
2004-03-17 05:02:00 PM
so, corporations can take advantage of a weaker foreign economy by buying labor, but a consumer CANNOT take advantage of a weaker foreign economy by buying prescription drugs? Why doesn't that suprise me...
 
2004-03-17 05:02:47 PM
Not that I'm pro-outsourcing... my firsthand experience at my previous company validated the old adage that "you get what you pay for".

I am anti- "knee jerk reaction", though.
 
2004-03-17 05:02:49 PM
What a two-face...talk about playing both sides of the fence!!!
I guess any doubts about Powell having sold his soul are now dismissed. What a colon.
 
2004-03-17 05:02:56 PM


GO TRIBE!
 
2004-03-17 05:03:11 PM
How can a 5.6% federal unemployment rate be bad?

Sustained erosion in the job market coupled with the 11 month limit on Unemployment Insurance.

Let me make one thing clear, the 5.6% represents the percentage of people who are eligible for unemployment who are claiming benefits.

Considering the downturn in the job market has lasted for over four years now is it surprising that people have either had to accept partial unemployment or join the disabled ranks?

This recovery is being fueld by two factors, consumer and federal debt. In the long run, without increase in Income there will be no increase in income tax, which is pretty much the only thing the Federal Government taxes anymore.

What happens in November when the Fed finally raises it's interest rate and the number of mortgages in default skyrockets?
 
2004-03-17 05:03:27 PM
rpm
...and when benefits run out, they should get another freakin job. I never took one dollar of unemployment when I got canned. I went out and got another job right away. Look, I feel bad for somebody losing a job, but some people abuse the system. I've had people come in asking for a job, not because they wanted it, just so they could show the unemployment office that they've been looking.

captainburly While I don't totally disbelieve your claim as possible, I have not heard anyone say that before. However, a lot of people could easily get by on less than $20,000 a year (depending on where you live), but many people choose to live beyond their means. That is not my problem.
 
2004-03-17 05:04:10 PM
Is there a hit-list of companies that outsource their tech jobs? I'd like to keep myself informed.
 
2004-03-17 05:04:17 PM
CapnWacky

I am anti- "knee jerk reaction", though.


That's very unfark-like of you
 
2004-03-17 05:04:24 PM
From my understanding it goes something like this. If we don't don't outsource the price of products made in the us goes up. These higher prices lead to more importing and less exporting because no one wants to pay higher prices for the same thing. Production then goes down and people are laid off. I think we should listen to Greenspan. ALWAYS listen to Greenspan. He knows what hes talking about.
 
2004-03-17 05:04:34 PM
Point02GPA

In french, the country is called Tchad...


/got nothing
 
2004-03-17 05:04:36 PM
Outsourcing is not bad for the economy as a whole, in fact it is good. By good I mean lower prices for goods and services.

The problem is that a relatively small number of people loose their jobs in the process. These losses are more than made up for by the total boost the lower costs give to our economy. Unfortunately this benefit is hard to measure as it is spread thinly throughout the whole economy.

Having the government stop outsourcing through legislation will, in the end, hurt the economy.

The real issue I see with outsourcing is the terrible working conditions, wages, and living standards the foreign workers have to put up with. This is where our government can have some positive influence.

I suggest having a read of this
 
2004-03-17 05:04:45 PM
Lars Thorwald, you rock! How did you get so good at channelling the soul of Donald O Connor??
 
2004-03-17 05:05:05 PM
Interestingly, NPR's "All Things Considered" did a report on this yesterday.

A couple of statistics (theirs, not mine) were enlightening:

There are about 138 million jobs in the US currently.

General estimate is that about 300,000 jobs have been genuinely 'outsourced'.

General estimate is that foreign investment in the U.S. has created significantly more jobs in the U.S. than the 300,000 jobs that have been outsourced.

/Would be pissed if it happened to me, but in the scheme of the global economy, this is a tempest in a teapot.
 
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