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(   Ancient map proves Chinese explorers reached the Americas first   ( divider line
    More: Interesting  
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21203 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Mar 2004 at 8:02 PM (13 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

140 Comments     (+0 »)

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2004-03-16 01:10:23 PM  
You could tell by the little dots every half mile labelled "raundly", "lestalaunt", "raundly", "raundly", "lestalaunt."
2004-03-16 01:43:52 PM  
2004-03-16 01:44:52 PM  
Filters are working against me today...I thought
the "first" comment was appropriate... oh well
2004-03-16 03:09:02 PM  
We went through this yesterday. This guy claims the Chinese discovered the Americas in 1421. Yet L'Anse aux Meadows, a Norse settlement in Newfoundland, was settled around 1000. In fact, there's speculation the Vikings may even have gone as far south as New England. They don't even get a mention in the article. What gives?
2004-03-16 03:14:36 PM  
Come on, some guy just xeroxed a map he drew at kinko's on to their new 100# rawhide stock, then soaked it in lemon juice and singed the edges to age it.

Spin_Doc: The vikings probably just raped and pillaged the Chinese camps, so they left out of shame and never spoke of the incident again.
2004-03-16 03:15:24 PM  
Maybe it's an attempt by the Italians to get the Casino Americans to quit ragging on them for exploiting North America...
2004-03-16 03:38:57 PM  
Please. Last time I checked, Puerto Rico and Guadalupe are on the east side of the Americas. Are they still there? Yes. Wouldn't the Chinese find the West Coast first? Maybe those islands were Hawaii? or did they take the long way. I need a pic of this map.
2004-03-16 04:13:32 PM  
*biting my tongue so I don't make a comment about Dry Cleaners in Puerto Rico*
2004-03-16 04:16:26 PM  
There is evidence to suggest that Irish monks reached the new world before the Vikings...and the natives reached it before anyone so this really doesn't matter a whole lot.
2004-03-16 04:19:46 PM  
Wouldn't surprise me. Lots of discoveries are made close to the same time. It's whoever is first and proves it is who gets remembered.
2004-03-16 04:39:43 PM  
The map doesn't prove anything. The article is based on a book by Gavin Menzies, who has nearly completely discredited. But the book is popular because it has been skillfully hyped by the publisher.

The map in the reference in the article shows three islands way out west of Europe. Mr. Menzies presumes that the islands are located in the Caribbean, but if actually look at the map you will realize that the longitude of the islands is nearly identical to Newfoundland and Nova Scotia. We have physical proof that Vikings had a settlement in the northern tip of Newfoundland, but to date no ancient chops sticks have been found in the Caribbean.

In his book, Mr. Menzies also presumes that Columbus had access to these Chinese maps (which Mr. Menzies also presumes existed). This is a ridiculous presumption. If Columbus access to these maps, he wouldnt have set sail to India, because he would have known that there was a big freaking continent in his way. If I remember correctly, Columbus died thinking he had had reached the East Indies.

Anyway, the Chinese may have reached America prior to Columbus, but there has been no real proof found.
2004-03-16 04:40:32 PM  
I bet the Indians were suplised.
2004-03-16 06:51:07 PM  
I bet the Indians would be glad to know that the Chinese are now trying to lay claim to the discovery of a land that they, the Indians, had been occupying for the last thousand farking years.

(*Revisionist assholes*)
2004-03-16 08:08:40 PM  
For you Twin Cities "Garage Logicians" out there:

"Ancient map proves..."

Uhhhhh, we don't know that.
2004-03-16 08:08:42 PM  
I don't think anyone else should want to lay claim to having discovered America. After all, it would only end with a bunch of rednecks screaming "Yea, and we kicked your pathetic ethnic asses out of it, too! AAAAAARGH"
2004-03-16 08:08:53 PM  
Vikings, Irish, Chinese, whatever. Whichever Old Worlder got their first is irrelvant. It was Columbus who began the European colonization of the New World, thus Columbus is still the most important "discoverer" of the New World by far.
2004-03-16 08:09:38 PM  
but to date no ancient chops sticks have been found in the Caribbean.

now thats comedy!
2004-03-16 08:12:52 PM  
aaaaaaaaaaaAAAAahahahaahahah! AAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
2004-03-16 08:14:52 PM  
Wasn't Columbus a greazy little Italian?
2004-03-16 08:14:56 PM  
She's breathing on it! Make her stop!
2004-03-16 08:20:20 PM  
Maybe I can shed some light on your question, TheRealist.
When the fleets were sent out by the emporer, they were all sent west. The Chinese believed that that was were there would be more undiscovered land, as it was thought that Japan was the farthest to their east. There is plenty of evidence that these junks spread far and wide accross the globe. There are accounts of giraffe's and zebras being present in the emperor's zoo as early as the sixteenth century. There has long been speculation by historians that at least one of these junks may have sunk off the east coast of North America(southern Canada most likely). There are numerous references by various Native American tribes to a group of "yellow-skinned" explorers. If this map is legit and the inferences being made are true, then it is the best evidence I have heard to support this theory so far.
2004-03-16 08:20:56 PM  
The aincient chinese and the vikings are the devil!
I discovered America!
2004-03-16 08:21:01 PM  
Isn't this a repeat?
2004-03-16 08:21:05 PM  
What about the Vikings? The Vikings reached Greenland and the Americas, what, a hundred years before Columbus...wouldn't they still be first?

2004-03-16 08:22:04 PM  
of course they found what is today Colombia.

...and went pee pee in their coke.
2004-03-16 08:27:05 PM  
Discover this, discover that...
Doesn't count till you've PW3N3D it!
2004-03-16 08:31:00 PM  
Wasn't a roman coin discovered in some Aztec or Incan dig in South America. Also an Olmec statue found had a lot of African anatomical features on it that Olmecs didn't have. So probably lots of people got swept up in storms and wound up in the Americas, they just didn't know where the hell they were or how to get back home to tell anyone.
2004-03-16 08:31:50 PM  
We'll I don't think the Mormons would like this. Jesus was a Buddhist?
2004-03-16 08:37:43 PM  
Every single civilization reached the americas before Colombus. Duh.
2004-03-16 08:39:04 PM  
this can easily be explained by presence of ancient astronauts, as can any other historical mystery. just watch "in search of" with leonard nimoy.
2004-03-16 08:43:37 PM  
It's not mentioned in this article, but I recall reading of a detail which made me discount at least this source. I mean, sure the Chinese may have done all sorts of exploration we don't know about it, but if so, this guy isn't the one who's figured it out; he has no idea what he's talking about. In another article on this subject, I read how he described 300 meter ships. A 300 meter wooden ship is impossible (and a 300 foot one is pretty unlikely, if somebody got horribly confused by metric/English conversions).
2004-03-16 08:43:43 PM  
"casino americans"

2004-03-16 08:44:26 PM  
Bah. Check out the Vinland Map. We Vikings were here first, and this probably proves it. Heh.

I really don't doubt that the Chinese could have reached North America, though. But, as in the Viking case, the important issue historically is not so much about who got here first, but who actually drew major attention to it. And that distinction unarguably goes to Columbus.
2004-03-16 08:46:36 PM  
You are totally correct.
And well done, a4dzac.
2004-03-16 08:47:52 PM  
/wonders whether the Chinese would have effected the mass slaughter and habitation that the Europeans did.
2004-03-16 08:53:08 PM  
Christopher Columbus didn't have a compass

/singing to self
2004-03-16 08:54:00 PM  
I visited north america from australia in 1401 in a past life. Beat that attention whores!
2004-03-16 08:56:43 PM  
I remember reading a cheesy sci-fi book about what would have happened if the Chinese had gotten to the Americas first, but I can't recall the name. The story revolved around some western european guy (An irishman) getting loose in the "wild wild east".

Totally lame book, but sort of entertaining---has anyone else in Farkville read it? (And it's NOT the Years of Rice and Salt by Kim Robinson)
2004-03-16 08:57:08 PM  
Von Denniken says the "greys" got there first.
2004-03-16 08:57:31 PM  
Well, if they wanted to prove they were here first, they should have killed a few thousand natives and pushed them off their land so people would have remembered them.
2004-03-16 08:59:24 PM  
So, were indigenous Americans unaware that the land they lived on existed before either Europeans or Chinese discovered it for them? What a bunch of crap!
2004-03-16 09:02:18 PM  
Not only was China there first, but the Great Wall is one of the few many made objects visible in space.

/Mau bless official media.
2004-03-16 09:02:22 PM  
Gunned: Probably, White people killed the natives directly and indirectly through disease, so by logic the Chinese woulda killed indirectly atleast because they were kinda connected to the west since the Roman days, the real question is would the chinese have given out Pox Blankets and other biological warfare stuff...
2004-03-16 09:02:33 PM  
In related news, I discovered the Denny's a block from my house. I think I subsequently discovered intestinal parasites.
2004-03-16 09:05:45 PM  
Map of Hawaii?
2004-03-16 09:07:04 PM  
Will students on college campuses start protesting against the Chinese on Columbus Day now?

Those evil explorers!!!
2004-03-16 09:10:35 PM  
According to the Discovery Channel the Ancient Chinese invented everything first...
2004-03-16 09:11:02 PM  
Red 2
The map is legit, but read my post above. The map is most likely being misinterpreted. The portolan is well known in cartographic circles and has been widely accepted as Northeastern Canada.

As to where Zeng He (he was in charge of the Chinese Fleet) sailed no one knows. His mission was deemed a failure and the records were destroyed. There is proof he went into Africa as far as Kenya, but there is no proof he west sailed to America.

The junks that he sailed in were massive - 480' long and 180' across. Mr. Menzies claims that the Chinese sailed this junks up the Mississippi River and then up the Missouri River as far as Kansas City. Highly unlikey. I've also heard the stories about the sunken junks, but those have always turned out to be something else.
2004-03-16 09:12:13 PM  
The VIKINGS still win! Oh, and have you seen drawings of those ancient Chinese ships? They're truly awesome, both in sheer size and cool design.
2004-03-16 09:13:52 PM  
how can you claim to discover land if people already live there?
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