NICU8697 So Canuck fans, was it worth it to take out a guy like Moore? NO, but I KNOW he didnt mean to hurt him like that, everyone agress with that statment. I mean if we were talking about Rob Blake or Forseberg then perhaps. I mean the Avs lose Moore for the season and the Canucks lose their best player. As an Avs fan I must give morbid thanks to Mr. Bertuzzi for making the road to the Cup that much smoother.

Dont count on that YET, crazy things happen and I would not put it passed us (though it will be HARD) to do well in the playoffs. Heres to AVs VS Nucks for the Western Championship!

Beeblebrox Okay, I only watch hockey live and not on TV. Can someone explain to me why fighting is necessary at all? That is something I've never understood. The only explanations I've heard is that it's because the guys carry sticks and will use them if they aren't allowed to fight, which I think is BS. So, anyone? Buehler?

Gotta say your question generated some interesting, but many completely useless responses. This is one case where I think playing the game actually makes it harder to write coherently about the issue (yes, I'm a fan and I've played, no that's not a slam at the other respondants).

The simple fact is - fighting is not necessary at all. Look at the minor levels (where it's harshly penalized) or overseas in the European leagues / International hockey legaues (where it's much rarer).

The style of hockey favoured by the North American pro leagues is a harder-hitting checking-based style (because it works very well - see the Olympic games) than you get elsewhere. Many times this style of hockey favours (as previous posters suggest) emotional intensity as it is about skill. To keep everyone from running off ad-hoc on each other the players adopted the so-called "unwritten code" which are things you simply don't do: You don't hit a guy from behind, you don't run the goalie, you don't fight someone who doesn't drop his gloves, you don't go out of your way to goon the other team's star player's... etc.

The self-policing aspect of this code is that if one team feels you're beaking it, they're going to send out their grinders to "penalize" you for it.

Beyond that simplistic background though - fights can serve a number of tactical purposes - a powerful momentum boost for a team that's trailing, snap a team whose focus is waning back in the game, or change the tide with a momentum shift from the opposing team.

But the most important thing is that the majority of fights are between two practiced AND WILLING opponents (see - You don't fight a guy who doesn't drop the gloves) and almost never results in any kind of serious injury. It's when non-practiced players fight that you tend to get mostly self-inflicted damage (MEMO TO JAROME IGINLA: If you break your hand one more time in an ill-advised fight, I will tear up my Flames booster card).

As much as everyone talks about the "marketability" of fighting, With an average of less than a fight a game (and face it, most fights are very tepid affairs... ice is a pretty frictionless surface after all - therefore balance becomes far more important than power) how many people do you realistically think are investing their time and money to maybe see a few seconds of off-balance wobbling?

I'd hate to see fighting removed from the game, because 99% of the time it adds an additional emotional layer to the game that no other professional sport has. What bothers me is that the only time non-fans ever see hockey it's always the "Don Chery's Rock-em-Sock-em" videos or footage of some bonehead move by a frustrated player (Brashier, Bertuzzi...) that has nothing to do with how the game is actually played. By excerpting the 20 minutes of fights out of thousands of minutes of gameplay we have legions of would-be fans turned away from the best game on the planet because they think it's all about bloodshed and the hanson brothers.

Nicu, it seems to me like those who are proponents and supporters of fighting in Hockey are the ones who don't understand it, cuz they can't seem to justify it here.

0ok

I KNOW he didnt mean to hurt him like that, everyone agress with that statment

He hit him from behind to hurt him. There's no other reason to do it.

How much he wanted to hurt him, who knows? But if he'd just broken his jaw, Crawford would probably still be yapping about "payback".

So, if he's only broken his jaw, would it have been worth it then? Bertuzzi still woulda got 10 games.

ScottMpls,
Fine, next you'll be calling them "the 51st state".

I would never, ever do that. England is 51st, Canada 52nd. ;)

/back to work now...

DeanMoriarty

If he didn't pounce on him immediately afterwards and drive his head into the ice, he could've just said something akin to the whole Mcsorley incident..."I just wanted to get his attention"

But yeah. Intend to break his neck? Probably not, but he wanted to give him more than a boo-boo, thats for sure.

AbsoluteZero wins my vote for best post.

Now, don't you think that the fighting and thuggery is interfering with getting skilled players on the ice? And ruining the game as much as a complete ban on fighting would do?

0ok

DeanMoriarty: I feel he hit him to
a:gorde him into a fight and
b: yes to hurt him.
And your right, if was just a broken jaw he would of got 5-10 games. But becasue of how bad the "hurt" was he is done for the year and maybe more. He didnt mean to break his neck, it was just a shiatty thing that happened.

/not bringing up that Moore should have not been on the ice or atleast turned and fought him.

Interesting how the tide has turned.

Vancouver is playing and acting much like the Avs during Crawford's tenure, only difference here is; as much as he tried....Crawford coulnd't f*ck the Avs up enough to deny them the Cup in '96.

Sure looks like he can in Vancouver. Way to order the Code Red Craw.

Wonder if Naslund will give the "coke" speech again this year when / if Dallas blows them out of the water in the 1st round.

I like the fact that the $250K Vancouver is paying is going to charity. What is the "Players' Emergency Assistance Fund"? Where does the money go? It'd be pretty lame if the $500K dumbass pays went to pay for the players during a strike or something like that.

it seems to me like those who are proponents and supporters of fighting in Hockey are the ones who don't understand it, cuz they can't seem to justify it here.

I don't think I understand your point, but regardless if you're a proponent of fighting in hockey or not, on what planet should be an attack from behind (by someone much bigger, mind you) be justified in any manner?

A fight is and should be a mutual throwdown, whether its in hockey or in a subway station. Punching a guy in the back of the head or temple when he can't see you and doesn't expect it isn't a fight.

Isuldirs "not much hockey in OHIO eh brudda?"

brother man, you said a mouthfull. new definition of stank.

not much surfing either, unfortunately. grew up on the ocean - Hawaii (Oahu) is incredible. I enjoy Ohio, but miss the sea. ah well.

CANADIANCOMMIE; now thats my idea of a good ole arse whooping contest - nothin wrong there.

just for the record; i wasnt trying to equate the standard issue NHL fight with what happened - its an apples and oranges thing. i was just wondering if the NHLs attitude that some fist fights are good for the sport had any part in it.

dont get me wrong here. i love violence as much as the next guy - more so if he pisses me off :)

/smiles while rubbing my well worn "ask me about my monkey" t shirt, fondly remembering blood filled school yard football games in days of yore. man thats a warm fuzzy.

I don't think I understand your point

That's cuz you didn't read back far enough in the thread.

on what planet should be an attack from behind be justified in any manner?

Only planets inhabited by beings with compound eyes and 360 degree vision.

Then you can tackle them from above!

0ok

I'm apparently the only one in this entire thread who sees the NHL's response as appropriate. (Especially if the suspension is extended next season if Vancouver gets ousted from the playoffs early.)

sens

As for Havlat hitting Recchi in the face, it was at the tail end of a game in which Havlat spent the entire night being held, face-washed, hooked, and slashed by Recchi - a skilled player being smothered by a washed-up utility man. The refs weren't calling anything, so Havlat made it known that he wasn't just going to take it up the ass all night from a hack like Recchi. I don't condone what he did, but it was an example of how a player can suddenly snap when refs don't call the game as they should.


Are you really such a homer, or are you just clueless? That "washed-up hack" is thirteenth in the league in scoring, with 26 goals, and is one of the classiest guys in the game. There is no Senator that will sniff at the accomplishments Recchi has made in his career.

2004-03-11 12:37:53 PM FishingWithFredo


I'm apparently the only one in this entire thread who sees the NHL's response as appropriate. (Especially if the suspension is extended next season if Vancouver gets ousted from the playoffs early.)

For Bertuzzi and the Canucks, it's a just punishment. For the lack of admonishment handed to Marc Crawford, it's a joke.

Don't worry about the Canucks getting bounced early. If things stay the way they are, they'll get Dallas in the first round. Then it's 6 and out for Vancouver.


EDIT: And before the grammar gestapo gets me, I meant to say 'choke' earlier...

One thing for sure is that rest of the season, for Vancouver fans (including me), will be interesting... if the team does not get over this it will be a kind of sad resignation BUT if we find a way to get something going it could snowball in a good way-- 'us vs. the world' kind of thing.

/getting out Senators Jersey

Seriously, do you guys whine THIS MUCH when there isn't something important going on regarding your team? What with Bertuzzi not being allowed to play "his game", Canucks getting called for thousands of penalty minutes each night when other teams get off scott free, etc... I'd think you guys were related to Jesse Jackson

They're just sore...arguably their best player is out for the Stanley Cup run.

What's funny is watching NESN (basically the Bruins network during hockey season). Holy hell, talk about homers. Christ, I like the Bruins, but every 3 seconds during a game telecast they biatch and moan about so and so getting hammered and how its a travesty there was no call (when in reality Thornton or someone just fell down).

The postgame shows are worse. We could lose 18-2, and the highlights will be our only two goals, followed by how great we are, and even more conspiracy theories about how the refs are against us.

2004-03-11 12:44:54 PM smartypants
What's funny is watching NESN (basically the Bruins network during hockey season). Holy hell, talk about homers. Christ, I like the Bruins, but every 3 seconds during a game telecast they biatch and moan about so and so getting hammered and how its a travesty there was no call (when in reality Thornton or someone just fell down).

The postgame shows are worse. We could lose 18-2, and the highlights will be our only two goals, followed by how great we are, and even more conspiracy theories about how the refs are against us.

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY is as bad as the idiots in St. Louis.

Ken Wilson; Calls a baseball game when the puck drops. And the angelic Blues can do no wrong, and no other team can do any right.

Bernie Federko; for a Hall of Fame player to know SO little about the game is an utter mystery.

My questions is will Wayne select him for the World Cup team. Wayne has always been outspoken against stuff like this ie: McSorley.

I doubt he'll be eligible. Traditionally, suspensions instituted in one league are in effect elsewhere - or else he'd just go play for Team Canada at the world championships, too.

Pugs911
I don't think he'd be eligeble. I would think that if you aren't in good standing with the leage, you wouldn't be allowed to play at a different level. Much like football player are regarded by FIFA.

puffy999
I hope you are right.

Ookdalibrarian
Beeblebrox
You fine gents are welcome to swing by my abode. We will consume ale, then set out and watch Canadian University Level Hockey as gentlemen.... except the season is about to end.
I, for one, welcome our non-goon hockey overlords.

Denis Lemieux had this to say:

"Rest of season, maybe more, by yourself...and you feel shame...and then you get free."

I guess I will just have to assume I will never get it. When I've watched hockey and a fight broke out, I couldn't get into it. I'd rather watch good skating, skillful passing and scoring. I must be in the minority...

Stealthd, thanks for the invite, that's a hell of a long way for beer and good hockey tho', and the fact that I have no vacation time...hmmm...when is the next long weekend?

Nah. It IS good to know that there are other people out there who like good hockey though, and not the stuff played in the NHeLL.

0ok

Yeah that Marchment hit was terrible.

Honestly, you're up by that much with the game almost over, why the hell are you even hitting ANYONE much less head first into the boards.

I'm not a leaf-hater, but they have some verifiable a-holes on that team (coupled with class acts like the newly acquired Leetch and Francis)

What a dumbass. Cries like a little girl and says "I didn't mean to hurt you." Bullshiat. Funny how if I was to break someone's neck, I'd get how much jail time? Lock up this prick for a nice long time. (unless he makes you lots of money, then you can just slap his wrist, like they did today)

2004-03-11 01:19:21 PM Bill_Wick's_Friend


As for Havlat hitting Recchi in the face....

maybe he was trying to make him look better?

(Recchi = ugliest man in the NHL = looks like the bastard love child of Geddy Lee and a kitchen witch!)

/love hockey threads. love hockey. wish i didn't have to work.

You're thinking of Mike Ricci, not Mark Recchi.

"Hi. I'm Todd Bertuzzi. My team put a bounty on Steve Moore after a legal hit. So I thought it would be fun to jump him and, in the process, break his neck. I got a 12 game suspension. Of course if the Canucks make the playoffs, that could be a total of 16-29 games. Thank god the commisioner is a pansy who clearly shows favoritism to the league's stars or I'd be in real trouble!"

"Hmm. On second thought, maybe it was good that I practiced those crocodile tears for Wednesday night."

/used to be a HUGE Bertuzzi fan.

You're thinking of Mike Ricci, not Mark Recchi.

Ricci himself should be the new definition of "ugly". What makes it worse is the fact that he looks like he takes a shower in grease before every game with that stringy, nasty hair of his

Bill Pal; der Jackal right, wrong Mark. I am heading down to San Jose Today (my buddy plays for the Sharks) and we are all going to a big party, I as a friend of Ricci, I must say the man is ugly, but one of the coolest, most down to earth guys I have ever met. I will send your regards! ;)

Geddy Lee


Mike Ricci


Mark Recchi

Isuldirs

Crap, you know him?

Um...tell him I think he's beautiful

/runs

Oh no smartypants, everyone of his buddies give him shots, but the guy is just so cool, everyone loves him. It also doesnt hurt that he is a talented hockey player who is worth a couple bucks.

What about Nikolishin? He jumped on top of the both of them after it happened. I'll bet that didn't help Moore's neck out any. Anyway, from how it looked to me Bertuzzi fell on Moore, not jumped on him. Anyway about it, Bertuzzi was wrong for what he did, but I don't think that what he did was any worse than what I see in other hockey games.


Andrei Nikolishin jumps on top of Todd Bertuzzi after Bertuzzi fell on Steve Moore's back.
Caption is copied from CNN.com

Oh hell no. We've EASILY got Rod Brind'Amour and Mike Ricci ahead of Recchi.

Well... it seems that they're finally cracking down on what Enrico Ciccone did a good deal of. Ahhh, Chico, how we miss you, and your amusing times... like when you kicked a player, or headbutted another... Heck, how about the time you suckerpunched Dino Ciccarelli? He was sure happy with you for that one.

Nah, in all seriousness, sure Bertuzzi's actions were a bit uncalled for, but what was mentioned earlier is indeed true. If Moore had got up swinging, the refs would have called it as 5 for fighting, and a 10-minute misconduct, or maybe even a game misconduct.