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(NHL.com)   Bertuzzi out until at least next season... decision on next season to be done during training camp   (nhl.com) divider line 345
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6471 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Mar 2004 at 9:16 AM (10 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2004-03-11 11:06:04 AM
Beeblebrox hockey refs have whistles, but they don't seem to know how to use them properly... they also seem to be unable to enforce many of the NHL's rules.
 
2004-03-11 11:06:21 AM
I don't see why people are still upset, I think it's a fair punishment. The 'Nucks can pretty much kiss the cup goodbye despite the 'Get Well Soon' gifts that Sather sent over.
 
2004-03-11 11:06:50 AM
For those interested, there are some really funny and dumb conversations and discussions at the Canucks NHL forums.
http://forum.canucks.com
 
2004-03-11 11:06:55 AM
Well Beeblebrox, let me see if I can give you a slightly less bad answer. The best hockey requires high-intensity, fast, all-out physical effort. Maybe some other players on this thread can corroborate this (or argue with it), but the only way that I as a player can reach that level of all-out performance is by getting mad. You are out there getting shoved around and you let yourself get angry and keyed up about it. There's a pretty delicate balance between getting too worked up to play well (which is when fights start) and channeling that anger into goal-scoring. So often the most exciting games are ones in which fights break out. To many spectators the fight is one attraction of the game, but I would argue that the fights are a side-effect of the emotional intensity required to produce a good game.
 
2004-03-11 11:06:56 AM
Wow. I never thought I would say this about the wholly inept group of bunglers that run the NHL, but .... they handled this EXACTLY right.

I especially liked the additional hefty fine to the Vancouver Canucks organization, for management not stepping in and shutting down all the swearing of blood vengeance following Naslund's injury.

Though the NHL says one of the reasons they want to evaluate whether to continue the suspension next season is Moore's health status, I'm sure another factor is, if Vancouver now gets bounced from the playoffs in the first round, the NHL will not consider the suspension to have been long enough.

I can't believe it ... they got it right.
 
2004-03-11 11:06:59 AM
sens, what you're telling me is that once these guys get to the NHL they no longer can control their tempers unless they are able to fight... Okay.
 
2004-03-11 11:08:54 AM
How can someone say "I've been a fan for years and years and now it seems the thugs are taking over?"

What game were you watching?

Where are the goons? Where are the players who can't skate, can't pass, can't shoot, but only can fight? Guys who you couldn't keep out too long because they sucked at defense.

Who's left? Vancouver doesn't have any goons, Ruutu and Cooke are in the Fluery Mold. Domi aint no goon, although he's close, maybe guys like Worrell, Simon might be goons, but there was a time when every single team had at least 2 goons on it.

BTW, i finally got to see the hit last night... WTF?

A gloved hit to the side of the head? Bad Luck, I don't think that even knocked him out. I think it was the shove by bertuzzi that got him injured.

I can't count the number of times i've seen that. I remember when forsberg hit cloutier like that in a game. Cloutier of course dove to the ground like he was knocked out...
 
2004-03-11 11:09:06 AM
Fighting is part of the game. I never thought I'd say this in public but Don Cherry's explanation of the purpose of fighting in hockey makes sense.
 
2004-03-11 11:10:03 AM
They did if you speared their star player or gouged out their defensemen's eye with a roaming stick, and then turtled every time someone challenged you (aka Claude Lemieux).


Yeah, and that's exactly what happened here.

except Moore's hit wasn't a spear or an eye-gouge, and he didn't turtle.

Good analogy.

the instigator rule has its flaws. But it's not applicable in this argument. Moore had already fought, and I'm prety sure in an 8-2 game, nobody was worried about giving up a power play.

It's a false argument. Fact is, one player (or a team, led by its coach, if you beleive certain reports), didn't feel what Moore had been through was enough, so they went after him. That's got nothing to do with spearing or eye-gouging or officiating.
 
2004-03-11 11:10:12 AM
Just looking at my last comment makes me sick. I recant.
 
2004-03-11 11:10:23 AM
Janet Jackson shows boob = mass hysteria

Hockey player attacks somebody and breaks their neck, an injury most famous for causing paralyisis or death, = nothing.

What about the children?!?!?!?
Where are the pro-life Christian freaks? (And why are they only pro-life when it concerns unformed primal fluids?)
Why aren't the networks banning hockey, or at least putting it on a 12 second delay?
Why doesn't Bush play hockey for God's sake?!?!?!?!?

The guy belongs in jail with a lifelong ban on hockey.

/not a sports fan
 
2004-03-11 11:11:12 AM
Seems like a silly suspension,

There have been far worse acts in hockey (if you're a purist, you consider people getting hit in the head with a stick a worse infraction). The only thing I can figure is that with all this talk of legal action the NHL decided that if they hand down a foolish enough sanction the authorities will lay off. Otherwise, it seems overly long and overly pricey compared to the history of suspensions in the NHL.
 
2004-03-11 11:11:31 AM
BaliScott

Kerry plays hockey. I hear he sucks, though.
 
2004-03-11 11:12:00 AM
Jesburgers,

I think you need to taek a serious look at that clip again. You can clearly see when the two of them are going down that Bertuzzi has his hand on the back of Moore's head in a pushing motion. He then tries to punch Moore in the head again when they fall. I think the only reason he didn't keep punching was everyone piled on them at that point.

Sure, he probably didn't mean to fracture the guy's spine. However he went out of his way to hurt the guy and the result was a serious injury. Thus, the punishment should fit the type of injury that occurred.
 
2004-03-11 11:12:12 AM
So often the most exciting games are ones in which fights break out. To many spectators the fight is one attraction of the game, but I would argue that the fights are a side-effect of the emotional intensity required to produce a good game.

Fights are also used to shift momentum in the game, it's an emotional charge for the team. Hence signing someone like Domi or Brashear. But guys like that respect each other, respect the game, and respect the code of conduct that comes with their jobs, they're not trying to seriously injure each other.

Bert's actions don't fall into this "fighting should be eliminated" debate. It was a disrespectful act of lashing out when he lost control.
 
2004-03-11 11:14:48 AM
Hockey needs fights. Its a violent contract game. If someone is pissing you off, giving you cheapshots when no ref is around, calling your mother fat. What do you do? You drop the gloves and beat the shiat out of him.

What if as soon as you dropped the gloves the refs were on you, and you were thrown out of the game, fined and suspeneded. You would resort to cheap shiat yourself, then eventually after a game full of cheapshots one of the player snaps, with no real way to vent his anger towards the other player he smashes his stick over their face in a fit of rage. Player is serisouly injuried, all because without fighting you have to resort cheap shiat to try to stop cheap shiat. Fighting is a way to vent, and it forces people to think twice before doing shiat. All this Bertuzzi shiat has nothing to do with fighting.

You could always try to get rid of the cheapshots with refs but we all know how that turned out.

Bert just sucker punched a guy, happens all the time, unfortunitly this time someone was serisouly injuried. The punishment is reasonable.
 
2004-03-11 11:16:32 AM
Did someone just say that Domi respects the game?!

/assbeaten fan seated behind penalty box
 
2004-03-11 11:16:37 AM
Surely you do not mean that hitting from behind is okay if the refs suck!

Well, maybe if the refs would call the friggin' came PROPERLY there wouldn't be any of this chippy shiat. Part of the reason for these great vendettas is because the original call wasn't made. Players taking the law into their own hands.

Vigilante justice wouldn't be so, well, vigilanti if the Sherriff actually paid attention to what was going on and got to the root cause of all conflagrations. Seriously, most refs are asleep at the wheel out there. The two-referee system is a dismal failure, the instigator rule is stupid, and Gary Bettman, a man who never seen a single hockey game before he became Commissioner has got to go.

Who the hell thought it was going to be a good idea to let non-hockey people (businessmen, marketers and lawyers) run our hockey league!?!?!?
 
2004-03-11 11:16:44 AM
This is tough by NHL standards, but he should have gotten a calendar year, then have to reapply for eligibility. The NHL is clueless.
 
2004-03-11 11:17:28 AM
 
2004-03-11 11:17:53 AM
Did anyone watch the Sportcenter highlights of the Lightning/Hurricane game (or was that a weather report)?

Anyway, a TB player was going in for an empty net goal and a Carolina player slashed him on the shoulder. The ESPN commentator this morning a) mentioned Bertuzzi b) acted like he was going for the head and missed and c) said no penalty was called, even though the refs hand was clearly raised immediately following the slash. No penalty was assed because it TB scored. (delayed penatly duh !) This kind of media sensationalism over what was a fairly routine play is NOT what the NHL needs right now. I wish I could remember the commentator, he is my new least favorite.
 
2004-03-11 11:18:06 AM
holy crap I suck at spelling, typing and grammar.
 
2004-03-11 11:18:19 AM
Interestingly... where does Granato's (Coach of the Avs) 2 hander to the head (15 game suspension) and Claude Lemeiux's (Av player) famous hit from behind on Draper (2 games) who was leaving the ice compare to a gloved cheapshot punch?
 
2004-03-11 11:19:44 AM
Beeblebrox: As a Hockey player, and a fan and a friend of many pro hockey players, I assure you that the reason its there NOW is because of the fact that it was part of the game in the early begings. Now I have no idea why 80 something years ago, they thought it was ok to fight, but the fact remains, that BECAUSE they fought in the old days, the "tradition" of fighting of hockey is still there today.
 
2004-03-11 11:19:56 AM
I'm in full agreement with Ishkur there...

The simple problem with the lack of scoring, is the lack of obsturction and interference calls away from the puck. Period. The league expanded to too many teams, and the disparency (sp?) between skaters speed/skill/agility from top to bottom is HUGE, thus, the slower, less fleet of foot, but big guys (6'2" 220) that are smattered about the league these days have to grab, hook, and pick guys away from the puck.

taking out the red line might be a good idea too.
 
2004-03-11 11:20:18 AM
jboy55 -
"A gloved hit to the side of the head? Bad Luck, I don't think that even knocked him out. I think it was the shove by bertuzzi that got him injured."

To me, it looked like he was out cold before he hit the ice. He didn't move his arms at all to try and break the fall. From the side angle it doesn't look that bad, but from the front camera angle it's pretty bad.
 
2004-03-11 11:22:08 AM
I dunno, I played hockey well into my teens and there wasn't much fighting, it didn't seem necessary. Were the games physical? Damn right, a bodycheck into the boards is pretty physical, I have a capped tooth to prove it. Did I hunt down the guy who slammed me? Nope, can't say that I did.

This idea that these guys are all pent up and fighting is a release is, to put it plainly, bullshiat. Lots of people are in stressful jobs (ever been on the floor of the stock exchange?) That doesn't give these workers carte blanche to throw down their orders and start pounding a trader from a rival co. That is called assault. So why do you find it acceptable?

As for the idea that "hockey is physical, so fighting is just an inevitable extension...", this is also bullshiat. How often do you see brawls in football? You think the offensive line isn't physical? So why isn't brawling acceptable in football?

These excuses are sad, and I think hockey would be a better sport if some of the players and fans became boxing fans instead. Cuz when it comes right down to it, fighting is acceptable to the league because it is acceptable to some of the fans, and tolerable to most of the others who think the game would be better without it. Those of us who stopped watching because of this kind of thuggery becoming prevalent are too small of a minority to matter to tho$e fi$cally re$pon$ible for the league.

0ok
 
2004-03-11 11:22:58 AM
caiteach - watch the clip again. His hands are not pushing Moore's head into the ice. His left hand is on his shoulder, and the other is on the ice, until an Avalanche player jumps in.
 
2004-03-11 11:22:59 AM
Well, maybe if the refs would call the friggin' came PROPERLY there wouldn't be any of this chippy shiat. Part of the reason for these great vendettas is because the original call wasn't made. Players taking the law into their own hands.


again, that's crap. Everyone who has seen the Naslund hit is split on whether it was cheap or bad timing.

there's a difference between vigilante justice and lynching. Remember lynching? When if a group of people didn't like a punishment, or thought the guy was guilty even when he was acquitted, they dragged him off and hung him from a tree?

Vigilante justice applies to right a previous wrong.

this ain't that. This is a bunch of retards who decide to exact their own punishment.

by your logic, if Bertuzzi had only got 5 games, it would be perfectly apropriate for the Avalanche to end his career the next time they played because they weren't happy with the result.

What's really sad is the one code there is in the game - the one thing you just don't do - is hit someone from behind, when they don't see it coming. And yet you're saying this happened because people don't respect the game.
 
2004-03-11 11:23:13 AM
RichPoorBoy, if he would have connected it would have been almost the exact same as McSorley's hit on Brashear. Yeah the only reason they pointed it out was because of what happened the other day, but the guy picked up his stick and swung it lake a bat at a guys head.
 
2004-03-11 11:24:52 AM
Hmm...I'm not a hockey fan by any means, and I've always thought it was a junk game, especially after seeing this hit over and over on SportsCenter.

Then I remembered watching the Winter Olympics a couple years ago, and that hockey was way the hell better, because people were always attacking the net and everything just seemed to go quicker. It was no American football or basketball or anything, but it was damn good. So why can't (or doesn't) the NHL play games like in hockey? I'm not sure if there are different rules for the international game, like with basketball, but if there are, the NHL should adopt them. I guess all the fighting and clawing and grabbing are good for drawing in casual fans, though.

And as far as Bertuzzi, trust me, I've seen the hit about eighty billion times, and it doesn't look as bad as when that black guy got slashed with the stick a couple years back. Still, since he broke his neck, I'd think that being out for the playoffs and the rest of the regular season would be a sufficient penalty. Of course, that's coming from someone who doesn't understand hockey's whole code of honor thing, so...
 
2004-03-11 11:25:21 AM
do mods take thursdays off or something???

surely there are more exciting stories other than paris hiltons nipplies
 
2004-03-11 11:26:10 AM
I think they should all "just be nice."
 
2004-03-11 11:26:35 AM
Kharlamov, the Soviets' most skillful player, was never the same after the hack, and the Canadians rallied for a series victory. When asked about the incident years later Clarke said: "If I hadn't learned to lay on a two-hander once in a while, I'd never have left Flin Flon." The attack also cemented Canadian hockey players' reputation as thugs who won games through intimidation and violence rather than skill and finesse.


Um...

Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Steve Yzerman, Joe Sakic, Guy Lafleur, Jean Beliveau, Marcel Dionne, Ron Francis, Paul Coffey, Luc Robitaille, Denis Savard, Mike Gartner, etc., etc., etc., might have something to say aboot that, eh.
 
2004-03-11 11:27:00 AM
I think this punishment could turn out to be nothing more than a slap on the wrist, and here's why; let's say the Canucks get swept in the first round - and don't tell me it can't happen... ask the Red Wings about last year... anyway, they lose 4-0. This means the total suspension is only 17 games. Not enough, by any standard. I say 30 games total, and make Crawford pay 250G's by himself. Smarmy little bastard.

Incidentally, I made a comment about this when it was first on Fark, about how it reminded me of a similar attack on Henry Boucha; he was with the North Stars at the time; there is a story in today's paper about his take on the whole thing, and it sounds like he had the same flashbacks as I did, except that he's still dealing with his loss every day.
 
2004-03-11 11:27:36 AM
All of you should be ashamed of not getting the Warren Zevon "Hit Somebody" reference.

Love hockey or not, Warren deserves better respect from you people!!
 
2004-03-11 11:27:58 AM
Moore had already fought

Yeah, he fought the smallest player on the Canucks roster, on his own terms (he jumped Cooke).

Sorry, but when you got a bounty on your head, you don't get to decide the terms.
 
2004-03-11 11:28:07 AM
What if as soon as you dropped the gloves the refs were on you, and you were thrown out of the game, fined and suspeneded. You would resort to cheap shiat yourself, then eventually after a game full of cheapshots one of the player snaps, with no real way to vent his anger towards the other player he smashes his stick over their face in a fit of rage. Player is serisouly injuried, all because without fighting you have to resort cheap shiat to try to stop cheap shiat.

Oh, we wouldn't want mature people playing the game. We want people who think cries of "Yo Mama" is reason enough to inflict grievous bodily harm...like six year olds.

This explains much sal.villanueva

0ok

no it doesn't
 
2004-03-11 11:28:29 AM
Don't they know that ice is slippery? You shouldn't play on ice kids. Ice is the real danger...
 
2004-03-11 11:29:12 AM
Robnoxious

I only got the side view... still, gloved shot to the head?

Plus, he must have been ready for something, Bertuzzi was bugging him for 15 seconds to fight. First shot, he goes down like a bag of bricks?
 
2004-03-11 11:29:37 AM
The Olympic hockey has different rules, and a larger ice surface.

Also, the games that you usually see on tv are the top games. Canada, USA, Sweden, etc. teams that consist completly of all stars. Players can rely on skill rather then cheap plays to win. NHL talent is spread to thin.
 
2004-03-11 11:30:21 AM
BigDaddySunDevil NCAA has some games for you. Check out www.uscho.com and be sure to sign the petition to get NCAA games on national TV.
 
2004-03-11 11:30:49 AM
too bad
you had to get caught
thats not like you to loose face
so sad that you're
not as smart
as you thought you were in the first place

Maybe Bertuzzi will move to New York and become a social worker.
 
2004-03-11 11:31:17 AM
2004-03-11 11:16:32 AM docfu
Did someone just say that Domi respects the game?!
/assbeaten fan seated behind penalty box


PLEASE tell me you're a Bruins or Islanders fan so I can rub Mike Millbury jumping into the stands and hitting a fan with his own shoe in your face.
 
2004-03-11 11:32:27 AM
the ban is fair, because the ban could be easily extended by Bettman.


He won't receive a life ban because no one actually died. For all the other hardcore fans out there, including myself, it was a matter of a sucker punch vs. a deck to the face. if he had decked Moore in the face, I woulda cheered and giggled at the sight, but he came up from behind and clocked him from the side. He was defenceless. He had NO hope of defending himself, nor preparing for the impact (hance, the broken neck)

I've nearly broken my neck more times than I can count (while playing hockey), and there are plenty of players every year that become paralyzed or, at the very least, unable to play hockey ever again from head and neck injuries.

This is a touchy issue. I forsee at least a suspended sentence of no less than McSorley's. THat is the only way the Police Force can get this over with without going lightly on him
 
2004-03-11 11:33:07 AM
BaliScott

Janet Jackson shows boob = mass hysteria

Hockey player attacks somebody and breaks their neck, an injury most famous for causing paralyisis or death, = nothing.

What about the children?!?!?!?
Where are the pro-life Christian freaks? (And why are they only pro-life when it concerns unformed primal fluids?)
Why aren't the networks banning hockey, or at least putting it on a 12 second delay?
Why doesn't Bush play hockey for God's sake?!?!?!?!?

The guy belongs in jail with a lifelong ban on hockey.


You're missing the point. The incident happened in Canada and involved Canadians. We don't freak out over a little titty on TV, we don't have pro-life Christian freaks (except in Alberta), and our networks would fall into financial ruin if not for the sport.

I hope that answers all of your questions
 
2004-03-11 11:33:58 AM
Here's to a speedy recovery, Steve. Hell needs to create a special place for that asshat Bertuzzi.

Regarding the upcoming playoffs, as an Avs fan, I think it bodes well that we acquired Michael Vick and Brian Urlacher.

/w00t
 
2004-03-11 11:35:17 AM
Since you're an Avs fan...and Leetchie was just traded...I'll have to respond to that by saying (and this is the first time I've EVER said this)...go leafs.
 
2004-03-11 11:38:01 AM
execute him.

...always an advocate for moderation...
 
2004-03-11 11:38:16 AM
Excellent fine/punishment - Now on to the criminal trial. They have those in Canada, right?
 
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