2004-03-07 09:36:03 AM Tillmaster

I see they're categorizing Pratchett as fantasy. Never understood the need to fit writers into pigeon holes. Monstrous Regiment doesn't fit this category at all.

Well, except for taking place in a fantasy world, with magic, and monsters, and all that... wait, isn't that the very definition of fantasy?

Don't go around redefining words because you don't want to be caught reading a fantasy book, and thus be called a dork. Pratchett's work is fantasy, just like Adams' work was science fiction. The fact that both are parody (and both are very awesome) does not negate this.

/lifelong fantasy fan--cut my teeth on the Dragonlance Chronicles, moved on to Lord of the Rings, and am now a Discworld geek.

//Dragonlance still rules

Welcome to the science fiction snob's corner.

Your favorite author sucks.

Have a nice day.

I haven't bothered to read Crossroads Of Twilight yet, and peobably won't.

Save yourself the trouble -- the one thing I remember about this book is how I could read for an hour, and about an hour of time had passed in the book. The entire novel only covers a short period of time, and it does so in agonizingly complete detail. I've stopped caring about Rand, Mat, Perrin, Faile, and the rest. The Dark One could win at this point, if it stops the series.

Now Martin's series, that is worth reading. Much more interesting characters, much better storyline, much better writing. I can't recommend the Fire & Ice saga enough.

I'm a big David Brin fan, myself.

Running with the Demon = The worst piece of utter crap I have ever made a valiant attempt at reading. I made it through the first fifty pages, and the main plot hadn't started yet. The most tiresome tripe. Ugh. Pick up some China Mieville instead.

Sorry you feel that way... I read Angel Fire East first, then Running, and Knight. Guess it helps to read things backwards sometimes..heh?

I thought Brian Aldiss died a few years ago?

Didn't we have this debate a couple of days ago?

Assuming that indeed many literate geeks will read this thread I have a question maybe one of you could help me with. (see how I made it all bold so people would see? nifty eh)
Anyway, I read this science fiction book once only I cant remember what it was called or by who it was, I assume Orson Scott Card though.

What I do remeber however is that the people in the book would spend most of their lifes sleeping only waking every ten years or so to live a day/week/month thus becoming near immortal. Depending on your status in society you could spend more time sleeping. There was some sort of queen and she actually slept up to a 100 years and only woke for a day (the numbers of course are pulled from my arse but it was something of that nature).

Anyone know what book that is? I even think it was some sort of series and I want to read it again, just as I want to read the whole Ender Saga again....help is appreciated.

In the interest of balance, I too, thoroughly enjoyed Quicksilver and eagerly await the next installment. To put things in perspective, I like science fiction and I like historical fiction. I love Stephenson's stuff and appreciate the fact that he is one of those driven authors who would write even if nobody read it. I especially smile at all the "anachrojokes" he seeds thoughout QS.

As to the separation or non-separation between science fiction and fantasy, that argument will never be solved. As M.J. Simpson has pointed out, Douglas Adams wrote science fiction like fantasy, whereas Terry Prachett writes fantasy in the manner of science fiction.

i dont read much at all, nothing ever keeps my attention for more than 5 minutes.. but..
anything by Chuck Palahniuk (fight club) is awesome. I'mnearly done with Choke right now and i almost dont want the book to end.

im a non-reader.

heartburnkid Well, except for taking place in a fantasy world, with magic, and monsters, and all that... wait, isn't that the very definition of fantasy?

Don't go around redefining words because you don't want to be caught reading a fantasy book, and thus be called a dork. Pratchett's work is fantasy, just like Adams' work was science fiction. The fact that both are parody (and both are very awesome) does not negate this.

/lifelong fantasy fan--cut my teeth on the Dragonlance Chronicles, moved on to Lord of the Rings, and am now a Discworld geek.

For a discworld geek, you don't seem awfully familiar with his later stuff. You won't find a single monster in Monstrous Regiment.
I suspect you're young - the gratuitous and unnecessary use of the term 'dork' would suggest that. The young have a tendency to see things as absolutes. Generally one gets over it after a few years, so don't worry.
There are elements of fantasy in Pratchett's work, and elements of satire, and a darkly humorous element. It would be utterly inappropriate to classify his work solely as 'fantasy'. I suggest you spend some time on alt.books.pratchett, if you want to learn more.
And don't be so rude in future, ok?

I've read close to half of those books, and of them all I'd say War of the Flowers was pretty much the most solid piece of fantasy I've ever come across. Having read some of William's other work, I was expecting something pleasant but trite, but this blew me away.

Ice and Fire still holds the trophy, though. Predictable??? When he kills off characters left and right? Man, I want to know what your mind is like where that's normal.

You won't find a single monster in Monstrous Regiment.
Well, Igorina and Maladict are technically monsters, aren't they? And Reg Shoe makes an appearance as well...

I have to say, Alastair Reynolds wrote two of the most mind-bending books I've ever read. Revelation Space and Chaos City were both really good books. They were really dense reading; but they definitely were some of the best hard sci-fi books I've read.

Tillmaster: Don't you include Igors, Vampires, Werewolves and Gnomes as fantasy characters?

They were all there. Some were main characters too. Clearly someone isn't awfully familiar with his stuff at all.

Nitpicking aside: Do NOT read A Song of Ice and Fire until you have read EVERY other fantasy book that you want to.

Otherwise you will just compare them to Ice and Fire, and casually toss them aside. The books are that good.

Food for thought:

Douglas Adams- has space ships and aliens, but 'science' is never explained nor expected to be consistent.

Terry Prachett (Discworld)- no space ships, but gods and magic. But magic is based on a consistent set of natural laws. Nobody hiding behind the curtain.

This is one of the reasons that many prefer to use the term speculative fiction. It covers all bases. But then, all fiction is speculative.

I am so out of the loop it aint funny. I used to be a big SCiFi geek years ago (when it counted) I still think the oldies are goodies. So reccomendations of old stuf to read.

"THe Demolished Man" - Alfred Bester
"The Immortals" - Phillip K Dick
"Creatures of Light and Darkenss" - Roger Zelazney
"Lucifers Hammer" - Pournelle and Niven
"Rendevous with Rama" -Aurthor C. CLark
\
Many others I cannot recall now because I am drunk.

hmmm...no Allston, Stackpole or Zahn on the list.

Perhaps in Tillmaster's world Igors, Vampires, Werewolves and Gnomes aren't fantasy.

just teasin'

Steven Erikson is the best fantasy writer I have read in a long time. More info on him can be found here.

wellllll... looks like we got ourselves a readuh.

/hicks

That reminds me, I need to pick up The Wee Free Men...

Nac mac Feegle!

monkeybiatch Nope, but in Pratchett's world they aren't monsters.

In fact, as far as I can recall, most of his actual monsters were human - e.g. Teatime, Pin & Tulip.

My point was that the fantasy framework is just that - a framework; his books are more about the interaction of people (of various species) within that framework. Most 'straight' fantasy is actually about the framework.

That's why i don't believe that it makes sense to classify his work as 'fantasy'. To a degree, I think the same applies to the Hitchhiker series - it isn't just Sci-Fi.

Apologies for taking so long to reply: one of Sybil's dragons escaped again.

but seriously folks... i just finished 'pattern recognition' and while i enjoyed it, it sure as hell isn't anything i'd consider 'science fiction' by any stretch.

i loved 'wolves of the calla' too, but you're either one of those people who loves king's 'dark tower' stuff or you're not.

'ilium' is presently at the top of my 'must read' pile.

I see Neil Gaiman got at leats 4 nods for novellas and short stories. Good, something to keep me going while he writes Anasi Boys. I've heard good things about Kage Baker. Cornelia Funke is pretty good; at least I enjoyed her first book The Thief Lord.

I think Order of the Phoenix deserved notice. Rowling has gradually shifted the tone of that whole series from fluffy Roald Dahl stuff to tackling some very heavy and dark themes. And her fan base has stuck with her through it.

Eddings doesn't write fantasy. He writes tour guides populated with dense guys and shrewish women. I got bored with Terry Brooks midway through the second Shannara trilogy. David Drake isn't writing a fantasy epic; he's writing a role-playing game summary without the character levels going up. Robert Jordan is a hack who desperately needs an editor; I never finished the first book. Mercedes Lackey has some imagination; I wish she'd use it to create something besides a lonely, misunderstood and supremely powerful/capable main character.

I'm witholding judgment on Martin until I get the next book from the library. He's certainly able to write more rounded and more compelling characters than the norm, but his pacing is nearly as ploddingly slow as Jordan, and if he keeps using the "Look! This cherished character is dead! Nope, fooled ya! There s/he is!" schtick I'm going to go find the man and knock him in the balls with his own 1000-page hardback. Twice.

Raymond Feist is the only one of the fantasy writers I started out with who has held up over the years. And even so I'm not reading anything current by him since I hate reading about characters that have little to no connection with the ones I loved in his first series.

I'm glad that Ilium was mentioned; if I hadn't happened to see the hardback in a B&N a week or two ago I wouldn't have realized Dan Simmons has a new book out. The Hyperion-Endymion series is incredibly good; the guy's a gifted writer (Okay, okay, so he wrote Hollow Man; nobody's perfect)

I'll probably check out the Greg Bear too, but he runs hot and cold - sometimes you get Eon and Moving Mars , and sometimes you get crap like Forge of God and Anvil of Stars

I see something about the world of Science Fiction most people don't know:

The World Science Fiction Convention (google code: WORLDCON) is held every Labor Day weekend at various cities across America, rotating from West to Central to East.

Basically speaking it is a five-day drunken party, attended by 3000-4500 hard-core geeks; the kind of people who couldn't get a date with a net.

Now the situation is this: take that many wall-flowers, turn them all loose in one place and stir in a lot of liquor, and they just go ape-sh*t and start screwing like little bunny rabbits!

Six months and counting to the next party, plenty of time to think it over.

Just a thought for those of you who aren't getting any. . . which is to say, most of you. . .

Wow, Terry Pratchett actually made that list. He usually gets overlooked. Go Terry!

Sci Fi pretty much died in the 80s -- not for lack of good writers, but the whole publishing industry that went in for all those Star Trek novels and crappy serials. And stuff that was based on role-playing D&D games and all that.

I've got several bookshelves of good sci-fi, and most of it dates back a few decades. Clifford Simak is one of my favorites -- I never read anyone who would have the aliens hover giant black rectangles over all major American cities and then do nothing ... just watch how people react and get used to it. (Not real big on the talking dogs he seems to enjoy)

Good for Kage Baker, getting #1 in the fantasy list.

I still need to read some of her stuff, one of these days.

Here's a good one: program-d.com. It's not quite science fiction per-se; more of a satire of modern times that takes place in the future. There is, however, a Hitler robot.

headedtojail:
Are you perhaps thinking of the Dayworld trilogy by Philip Jose Farmer? Sounds about right, but it's been a good couple of decades since I read it.

Hey, thanks slarg and QtrPndr, for noticing my book Star Dragon on the list. I thought I'd point out that Paper Mage, also on the list, is by my wife Leah Cutter. She's not a Farkette though, unfortunately...And Paper Mage is not the first book of a series, it is a stand alone. Her second book, Caves of Buda, is out in a few weeks.

There are some really great books and authors on the list although I'm too busy to have read very many of them myself yet (and I'm supposed to be writing this afternoon instead of procrastinating with Fark!). Read my book and my wife's book first of course, but then check out Sister Alice by Robert Reed, Blind Lake by Robert Charles Wilson, Robert Sawyer's Hominids, Humans, Hybrids series, Illium by Dan Simmons, Greetings from Lake Wu by Jay Lake, anything by Nancy Kress and Greg Bear, Alastair Reynold's books (he's another astronomer like me, and I thought his first novel Revelation Space was super), and others. I haven't read any Scott Westerfeld, Charlie Stross, or John Wright, who all have novels on the list, but they show up as "also bought" on amazon.com's Star Dragon page.

Oh, yeah, and check the classifieds for my ad that links to my webpage promoting Star Dragon and includes reviews and the first four chapters. Amazon.com just dropped their price to $9.98, which is 60% off (it's a hardcover, paperback won't be out until the fall).

I'll second that recommendation of Simon Erikson.
The Malazan book of the fallen series is the only series out there as good as Ice and Fire. possible better. Yes, that good. I don't think it's available in the States yet (hee hee) so suck up to some Canadian farkers or order it off the net. Do yourself the favour, you won't regret it!

I've only even heard of one of these, and only a couple more of the authors.

Of course, I've never been a big fan of the more recent science fiction (with a few exceptions). Gimme the 50s, 60s, 70s-era stuff. But what the hell, maybe I'll check a few of these out.

Also, American Gods sucked a polyorchid donkey's balls, and it was in no way science fiction (or at least, no part up to the point where I stopped reading made me think it even had a tenuous connection to the genre).

An interesting list. I've read a few of those, but most I wouldn't have taken a second glance at. Then again, all lists are biased.

Then again, if you look down to the short stories, they have an obvious magazine bias. Only one story from Analog? I agree, it hasn't been as good in recent years, but neither has Asimov's, which has dozens of stories listed.

Many of the books are books by authors who had better books before, in my opinion. Memory was okay, but Nagata's previous books (Vast, Deception Well) were much better. Ditto for Kress. Clearly ditto for Gibson.

Am reading The Golden Age now. It's... okay. It's set so far in the future that the interactions and (vaguely) concentual realities are complex enough that the author stuck with a really simple plot (otherwise it would be impossible to read). Not one of my favorites.

But my tastes are quite different. Glen Cook, hands down. After that, I'd toss in CS Friedman, Julie Czerneda, and Jim Butcher. Many others, of course -- I read four books a week, so can't be too picky, which is probably why I have any overlap with this list.

I've also heard great things about Erikson, but am trapped in the US. Seems a shame to pay $15 for a paperback.

For all those who find George RR Martin plodding and slow: pick up some of his older short story anthologies. Tuf Voyaging is one of my favorites. He excels at quickly fleshing out interesting, complex characters.

Which surprised me when he started into the Game of Thrones series. The books all seemed so large...

ZAZ -- well, if the internet says so, and it does appear to, I'll have to tell Leah to get cracking and stop working on the Viking/Mayan book she is finishing up now! We can't allow it to be discovered that there are any mistakes on the web, or all of civilization as we know it will crumble.

RobereDuMal: I just ordered "American Gods" from Amazon

Looking forward to reading, sounds interesting.

FIONA APPLETTE, - You are too funny in your description of
David Eddings, and I totaly agree, Kinda dont agree about Jordan, Yes, he can get pedantic at times but something about his characters got me reading the whole overlong thing.
.
MERLE FARK, DAMM right! Glen Cook is fantastic, No one has ever written fantasy that incorporates many different characters and has such spellbinding battel scenes than the
stuff he did in the DREAD EMPIRE series.
.
For Sci-Fi another name I forgot to mention is Joe Halderman.
For fantasy, another great writer is David Gemell

Impudent Domain: Excellent! Glen Cook fans are oddly few and far between. Not sure why; I've enjoyed just about everything he's written. (well, his very first book, The Heirs of Babylon, was bad, but...)

Any suggestions for similar writers -- not necessarily content, but writing style? Jim Butcher is the closest I've come. Drake and Gemmel were suggested to me, and both were vaguely close... but I still find I prefer rereading Ill Fate Marshalling or any of the Black Company books.

Not really all that similar, but I liked certain books of
RA Salvatore, and David Duncan.
Duncan especially is hit and miss. I found the guys email
and sent him a few letters which he responded to. Some of his stuff like the tales of the wandering Bard are great
(really great) and others have been so predictable and lazy.
I took him to task for this and he told me the ones I didn't lik were the books he sold the most copies of.
Likewise Glen Cook, even with all the great stuff he wrote could not really make a living from wtiing and he gets by because he retired from an automobile assymbly line
WTF?
Well, one new writer who has a very good triology (or maybe its four books) is Thomas Harlan.
Try him out.

Where's the Stephen Baxter? WHERE?

If you liked Me Clarke's work, you'll love this guy.

2004-03-07 03:46:03 PM Cranialsodomy
Good for Kage Baker, getting #1 in the fantasy list.

Uh...the list is alphabetical.

Yeah, I'd heard Glen Cook had such a pile of books leftover that he often took a van and sat outside scifi conferences in the St. Louis area and sold his books out of his van. Man, what I woudn't give for autographed copies of the first three Black Company books...

I'll check out Salvatore and Harlan. I tried Duncan way back when, but probably hit his "miss" books. I'll look for some wandering bard ones. Thanks!