FARK.com: (858009) Virus writers use internet worms for war of words. "Bagle

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		Virus writers use internet worms for war of words. "Bagle - you are a looser..." (reuters.com)		154
		More: Dumbass

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13705 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Mar 2004 at 12:26 AM | Favorite | share:

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Killroy69		2004-03-04 02:12:18 AM

"VarmintCong: I've gotten 7 of those e-mails today. People who are dumb enough to open unexpected e-mail attachments don't deserve the internet.

OK. I get so focking sick to hear people say this. I am wise to the ways of the spam, and I know better. However, I do not wish ill to those that do not have such expertise. Such attitudes are born from a superiority complex that has no basis in fact.

A computer has become a household object. Like cars. Do you wish ill on someone who can't change his carburator ? If someone opens his mailbox and gets blown to bits by a bomb, will you say he should have known better ?

Knowing all the intricate subtleties of computer use should NOT be required before buying a computer to type a letter, surf the web, or exchange e-mail.

ISP's should have the duty to give you a spam-free service (you do pay for your ISP's service), and governments should have the duty to protect their citizen's property (you do pay your taxes in exchange for crime punishment and for the application of the law).

Get off your soapbox, take your contempt and 1337 attitude, and shove it.

Girion47		2004-03-04 02:15:06 AM

Killroy69 must have just figured out the keyboard.

Killroy69		2004-03-04 02:16:29 AM

LOL @ Girion47

;-)

Girion47		2004-03-04 02:16:37 AM

j/k

but really changing a carburator is very different than not opening an email attachment which I have seen numerous warnings almost everywhere NOT TO OPEN ATTACHMENTS. its not like there are diagrams posted everywhere showing how to work on your car.

Killroy69		2004-03-04 02:18:09 AM

Still, if I do, I didn't "deserve" nothing. That's just stupid contempt.

Girion47		2004-03-04 02:20:46 AM

okay. opening from people you know? you dont derserve it but tough luck. opening an attachment or package in the mail from someone you dont know? come on you have to know that there is a risk involved but with email attachments at least you have a virus scanner to use before you unleash the thing where as I dont think everyone has a xray machine for packages in the mail.

/will open black plastic wrapped magazines.

f-bomber		2004-03-04 02:20:59 AM

Virus writers hmm, does anybody remember tee kid or whatever his name was?

Lord_Kuri		2004-03-04 02:21:55 AM

2004-03-04 01:49:29 AM fuque

Icthyologist

Very good points......

......They must have 2 foot dongs.

I do believe that's one of the funniest things I've ever read on this site *tips hat*

-LK

Killroy69		2004-03-04 02:26:27 AM

Girion47: okay. opening from people you know? you dont derserve it but tough luck. opening an attachment or package in the mail from someone you dont know? come on you have to know that there is a risk involved but with email attachments at least you have a virus scanner to use before you unleash the thing where as I dont think everyone has a xray machine for packages in the mail.

Many spam have tricks that copy your user ID in the subject line. Many spam I even get with my ISP's name in it.

They're all virus infected. I know not to open them. I can't expect the same from every-one.

There goes your "don't open stuff not addressed to you" theory.

shigelojoe		2004-03-04 02:30:07 AM

...I can still enjoy such modern conveniences as a mouse with more than one button.

In fact, it's entirely possible to use a mouse that has more than one button with a Mac. Just buy any mouse that has more than one button, hook it up, maybe install some drivers if it has quite a bit of buttons, and voila.

Having more than one button on a laptop, though, is apparently too much to ask for.

I'd be more bummed about the laptop situation, but the fact that I have a 2 foot dong keeps me pleasantly optimistic and worry-free about such things.

Killroy69		2004-03-04 02:31:33 AM

GaryPDX: ohhhh.Killroy69 you have no idea what you are saying Mon. Doing tier2 support for an ISP, the only way for us to do what you ask is to scrutinize all your email before it arrives in your mailbox. Do you really want someone reading your private email before you see it?

I am quite aware of that. I know we are a far way before having safe surfing. I'm just saying on who the responsibility *should* be. The company that you pay for your access and that has all those experts that went to SCHOOL for that knowledge, or the unqualified commoner that just want to benefit from a paid service ?

I know that ISP's can't do that with the current techs, but blaming the un-netwise is contemptuous.

Is that so hard to grasp ?

Girion47		2004-03-04 02:32:26 AM

I never said it was an airtight theory. before I open attachments I require: a backup email explaining the attachment, an instant message explaining it, or a phone call explaining it. The same as I do for any other file someone might try to send me through various means. I got a sub7 trojan once and that was hell.

mruttan		2004-03-04 02:32:43 AM

I have a couple of comments.

First off, the blank emails are probably one of 3 things.
1 - idiot spammer who forgot the content
2 - address probe, lack of content beats filters
3 - the html content of the email is being removed leaving only text. Since the email contains no plain text, it appears blank.

The ISP I work for processes over 30 million emails a month, 70% of which is spam/viruses.

I don't think there is "internet intelligence" so much as internet experience. I don't blame people for opening attachments, it IS an email feature. Unfortunately, it is one that has been exploited. I do blame human nature for continually trying to bring chaos to order.

We can be a pretty shiatty species. I guess it all balances out.

Girion47		2004-03-04 02:35:40 AM

its like you're saying we should feel sorry for a guy if he picks up a gun, doesnt know how to work it and shoots himself in the foot. everyone has heard of guns and everyone has heard of computer viruses. I dont know anyone that will go around messing with guns without at least asking someone that has handled one. People should learn to research things before they blindly stumble into them.

Killroy69		2004-03-04 02:35:54 AM

mruttan: I don't think there is "internet intelligence" so much as internet experience. I don't blame people for opening attachments, it IS an email feature. Unfortunately, it is one that has been exploited. I do blame human nature for continually trying to bring chaos to order. We can be a pretty shiatty species. I guess it all balances out.

My point exactly.

Thank you.

fuque		2004-03-04 02:36:31 AM

shigelojoe

I knew the mouse comment would be the primary point of contention. I just couldn't resist.

Actually, you know, I can enjoy the same convenience with my old thinkpad. I just have to carry around a mouse in my pocket. While that may seem like an advantage, it rarely convinces anyone that I am a gargantuan crotch having mac user.

mruttan		2004-03-04 02:38:35 AM

Girion47 - I think you are an idealist but not a realist.

Hell, when the TV and phone came out, they blew away a generation. But don't worry, I really can't see this type of ignorance being a problem in 20 years when we REALLY control the world.

I get the Bahamas.

mruttan		2004-03-04 02:39:48 AM

Killroy69 - the word of the day...

is WORD!

Girion47		2004-03-04 02:41:14 AM

Mruttan blame the idealism on being a college student. so I have this really neat zip file want me to email it to you?

Killroy69		2004-03-04 02:43:06 AM

Girion47: its like you're saying we should feel sorry for a guy if he picks up a gun, doesnt know how to work it and shoots himself in the foot. everyone has heard of guns and everyone has heard of computer viruses. I dont know anyone that will go around messing with guns without at least asking someone that has handled one. People should learn to research things before they blindly stumble into them.

People should not be expected to research things about every object that they get access to. The people that make those objects have that responsibility. That's why you have quality control laws and regulations.

You analogy actually enforces MY POV, not yours: it is not legally possible to get hold of a gun without a proper permit. Before you get that permit, the powers that be make sure you have the proper knowledge and qualifications to use a gun. Not so with computers.

Guns are lethal objects. Not computers. You have to fock around a LOT with a computer before you can use it to endanger someone's life.

mruttan		2004-03-04 02:43:35 AM

It's ok Girion47, I already took a look through your machine and you don't have anything I want.

Thanks anyway.

Girion47		2004-03-04 02:46:05 AM

so why not make permits for computer usage?

Killroy69		2004-03-04 02:46:23 AM

GaryPDX: If you hop in a car and drive, you're expected to follow the rules and wear a seat belt. I can't be more clearer than that.

Before I can drive a car, the government has to make sure that I know how to do that. Else, I won't be able to legally drive one.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

Girion47		2004-03-04 02:47:13 AM

mruttan are you sure? I have that one pic you're missing from your kiddie porn gallery to complete that kid's portfolio.

Flashbulb		2004-03-04 02:47:23 AM

My two cents:

1) Viruses come from spammers. So do those FWD FWD messages. Beware. Don't FWD. You'll go blind.

2) Macintosh is relished by designing people because it is well designed. Note: It was relished before the pretty colors and shapes. It's all in the OS.

fuque		2004-03-04 02:48:14 AM

GaryPDX

I like what you're saying. Don't you think though that as the situation changes, the tactics will change too? Suppose that one day we all have the education to resist these irresistable attachments from complete strangers offering "that thing you asked for." Won't these virus writers just find a new way to be bastards? Is the goal then to only allow the people who are smarter than anyone who would dare trick them onto the internet? You can test people to verify that they wont fall for the tricks that you know how to avoid, but then eventually, there will be security failings that we had not prepared for.

I am tired from trolling. Goodnite L00sers.

Killroy69		2004-03-04 02:53:48 AM

Girion47: so why not make permits for computer usage?

First sensible thing you said. (j/k)

With the current state of the internet, viruses are more dangerous BECAUSE people do not have the proper knowledge, and their ignorance is the prime ingredient of their propagation. Knowing that, the government SHOULD issue a short course and certification that would teach you some basic things such as not opening suspicious e-mail attachments. They know (the gov) that they don't have the means to stop spam-generated virii, they should take other means, not just say "sorry guys, there's nothing we can do about it".

You show that permit to the store owner, he sells you a computer. You show that permit to an ISP, he gives you an internet access. You open a suspicious e-mail, THEN and ONLY THEN do you only have yourself to blame.

Jsimmons38040		2004-03-04 02:56:53 AM

Virii codeing could be treated with just as serious action as making biological weapons.

Lock them away/give em the chair.

Bill_Wick's_Friend		2004-03-04 02:57:06 AM

i got both bagel and netsky sent to me at work today.

avg grabbed them, but even if it hadn't, how frikin dumb do you have to be to open qjgbqjb.exe embedded in a zipped file?

Killroy69		2004-03-04 03:00:52 AM

Don't worry about it Gary. I'm sure we had this conversation face 2 face, we would get our points across more smoothly. I am not an idiot, don't worry.

*sigh*

I will go to bed too very soon.

I over-heard on the n00z today that there was a shiat-load of deaths in Irak, yet I haven't seen a thing about it on Fark. Am I hallucinating ?

/lighting a cigarette to stay awake a tad more, for it is rare on Fark to have a non-flaming debate

Killroy69		2004-03-04 03:09:37 AM

That is so true Gary.

Having worked as the e-mail answerer for a chain of stores, I have seen this phenomenon first hand.

Killroy69		2004-03-04 03:12:40 AM

'nite all, I'm off to bed.

RockIsDead		2004-03-04 03:14:54 AM

Turn your viewing of 'The Passion of the Christ' into a fun experience by imagining that he is really a virus writer. But don't hoot too loud or others might take offense.

Enigmamf		2004-03-04 03:50:36 AM

Fuque
I thought you were arguing that OS-X was not in fact secure because it used code that formerly ran on x86...

Anyhow... I'll get off the computer and get back to that other item you mentioned.

tallguywithglasseson		2004-03-04 03:53:05 AM

We got owned by netsky today, but only because our virus scanner sends myself and two others an e-mail every time it detects a virus... it detected the same virus on the same computer 8000 times and flooded out our e-mail server.

That being said, I'm usually pretty harsh on people who open these e-mail attachments, but this latest netsky variant I admit, albeit begrudgingly, is pretty clever. It copies an e-mail to everyone in your address book, as so many others have, but it copies your address as the sender. So say I am idiotic enough to open it, all of a sudden people get an e-mail from their IT dept asking them to please open the attached file.

Luckily none of us are (hopefully) dumb enough to open one, but... I've seen some literature on netsky that says some variants show a false file extension (i.e. .doc) and use the MS Word icon for the attachment. And our e-mail virus scanner won't be updated until Saturday (don't even get me friggin started on that). Add to that the general (in)competency level of users, and I'm getting a little nervous.

evilcounsel		2004-03-04 04:24:06 AM

So, class, what did we learn today?

/doesn't have the virus
//works for an isp
///told hundreds of people not to open attachments today
////likes the lame close tag to end insomnia induced thoughts

Metal		2004-03-04 05:11:58 AM

I use PINE. attachments are unviewed.

AmyShirley		2004-03-04 05:37:05 AM

"...a looser fit than your sister"?

Whatever happened to the good old bathroom wall?

Bukharin		2004-03-04 06:05:58 AM

Virus writers use internet worms for war of words.

Is anti-bacterial soap still uneffective?

hdhale		2004-03-04 06:54:21 AM

Bobbette

I'm infected with every Mac OS X virus that exists... which is to say none.

Lucky for you I can remember when people still bothered to write Mac viruses. That they don't anymore is a bad sign for *you*, not non-Mac users. Why? Popularity breeds virus. I knew Linux had finally arrived when someone bothered to write a virus for it. That it was a lame virus is irrelevant, most all viruses (virii?) are.

--h

Day_Old_Dutchie		2004-03-04 07:01:04 AM

There's no excuse for those who open virus attachments..

You don't go running out and play in traffic..
You don't drink Chlorox..
If you hit your head on a wall it hurts..
You don't park in the disabled spot outside a donut shop (if you are able bodied!)

And you don't open email attachments..

(What could be simpler?)

BTW, I havn't got an email virus since, well, as long as I can remember, but I get AT LEAST 50 FRIGGIN EMAILS A DAY TELLING ME NOT TO OPEN THIS AND THAT ATTACHMENT.

I've get more warnings from "well-intentioned" people than usefull messages. WTF?

MachuPichu		2004-03-04 07:32:19 AM

2004-03-03 05:49:58 PM karlmer

...
Hope into one hand and shiat into the other, and see which one fills up first.
...

New keyboard, please. :)

AnonymousKnowItAll		2004-03-04 07:42:55 AM

I work in the I/T field, and even I find some of these "dumb user" comments disparaging.

Look, it isn't blatently obvious to some people that such a thing is a virus? Why? Because they are not in the computer field, they are not the experts.

I work for a law firm and our lawyers do this frequently. Are they dumb? No!

Honestly, I'd love to see some of you elitist uber-geeks try their job out for a day if you think they're so stupid.

CanUK		2004-03-04 08:28:28 AM

Many years ago, when the earth was green, and it was obvious only morons are meant to use AOL, I got an unsolictited e-mail inviting me to view a beastiality website. Being both naive and too stupid (did I mention AOL?) to realise that the owner of the e-mail from which it came probably wasn't the sender, I sent a rather heated reply.

The reply I got from the e-mail owner was dripping in so much graphic detail as to what I could do with myself, I think the beastiality site would have been quite boring by contrast.

Yes, I can be dumb, but I don't open farking attachments.

swiffer_king		2004-03-04 08:30:21 AM

In this corner...the folks from Mcaffee!! In the other corner...the folks from Symantec!!! Let's get it on!!!1 BBQ!!

Pocket Ninja		2004-03-04 09:01:08 AM

AnonymousKnowItAll

Thank you for being one of the very few non-asshats posting in here.

I love what seems to be the prevailing attitude of poor, socially-inept techies. "Oh boy, I know something about computers so therefore people who don't know what I do are morons." Please. So you have a specialty. Big deal.

How about this... You're too stupid to grow your own food. Therefore, you shouldn't eat. Or, you're such a farktard that you can't repair your car's transmission. You moron, you shouldn't drive. What? You don't understand the finer points of law? Idiot, no defense for you at trial.

Of course that's all stupid...it's why we have professions, you asshats. But to say that "someone who doesn't know enough about ...... doesn't deserve the internet" (as one particular cretin did in here) is the pinnacle of inane stupidity. Lose some weight, get your pasty skin out of the sickly glare of your computer monitor, and for God's sake move out of your mother's basement.

Or don't you like that stereotype?

Photon		2004-03-04 09:36:37 AM

We had a bunch of these email viruses posted to my school's class-wide emails. I think we had more email from people replying to other ppl and saying "we know it's a virus, stop telling us already" than to the actual viruses (of which there were at least 20).

maffick		2004-03-04 09:42:48 AM

I must concur with the sentiment that many of you folks who feel so superior are really just compensating for other inadequacies. I administer a SAV 8.0 enterprise server that has about 800 clients. Also, many of these worms can be propagated through methods other than e-mail. I have been in IT for about 15 years now, and this is the worst viruses have ever been. I am guessing you arrogant pricks are neo-cons, no?

/fuel for the flames!