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(NewsMax)   Some folks think Bin Laden tape was 'faked' to distract from US actions in Afghanistan   (newsmax.com ) divider line
    More: Asinine  
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4024 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Dec 2001 at 8:42 AM (14 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2001-12-14 09:42:34 AM  
Jeez, your previous presidents have lied to you... what makes you think that your current president isn't lying now? That Bin Laden tape is as convenient as that Lee Harvey Oswald photo where he's holding a rifle and the shadows make no sense.

freakystyley
 
2001-12-14 09:43:11 AM  
 
2001-12-14 09:43:47 AM  
Proud2B_American,
I think you misunderstood me. I think they have (or can find) enough capable linguists to correctly phrase the wording used on the tape and either speak it with the correct accent or find all the correct phrases in ObL tapes and copy/paste those, resulting in a nice (faked) tape that can stand a linguistic testing and independent translation.

I am not saying they did it, but neither am I saying they didn't (just call me paranoid).
 
2001-12-14 09:43:57 AM  
Its always important to be sceptical about either sides propaganda in this nasty little war.

Here's a farking question for you: Has anyone ever heard Osama DENY responsibility for the attacks? I mean, here he is with the military might of the civilized world (yeah, that's right, I said "civilized;" get over it) bearing down on his mountain retreat and slaughtering all his "brothers," and he's never uttered a peep about not being involved.

Now, he has said he hates the U.S. If he was not involved in the WTC attacks, why not just say so, get out there and spread the word that Osama isn't the bad guy? Then, at least, you have a chance of living for a while to do more damage to the great satan.

I don't know what he gains by essentially committing suicide. Is he hoping for martyrdom? What's going on in this guy's head? Either he's more of a fanatic than even we've painted him to be, or he's just a plain ol' farking idiot.
 
2001-12-14 09:46:10 AM  
A friend of mine is an arabic speaker. He says that Usama does indeed say what is claimed he says.

However.. he looks a little different in the video than he does in the other ones I've seen. Maybe it is just the lighting.
 
2001-12-14 09:48:06 AM  
HeatMiser,
Either he's more of a fanatic than even we've painted him to be, or he's just a plain ol' farking idiot.
Those options are not mutually exclusive.
 
2001-12-14 09:49:47 AM  
Appie I see your point, I think I did kinda miss the point earlier...my bad. You are right, there is always a possibility, thanks
 
2001-12-14 09:49:50 AM  
To distract from the action in Afghanistan? Wouldn't the tape only -draw attention- to the action in Afghanistan by further justifying it? If it's distracting from anything, how about the escalating conflict in Israel, or the Bush administration's first (ab)use of the executive order barring public access to Presidential records, or the withdrawal from the ABM treaty? Which was the focus of the nightly news yesterday, eh?
 
2001-12-14 09:50:08 AM  
I could give a rats ass whether the tap was doctored. It's not like this is the only piece of evidence available tying him to the job.

And even if he didn't have anything to do with 9/11, we should still kill his ass over the USS Cole, the marine barracks bombing and those embassy bombings, which we also have evidence that Bin Laden helped pull off. Remember those?
 
2001-12-14 09:51:04 AM  
HeatMiser: Osama's obvious guilt of the attack does not necessarily make the tape authentic. Has it occured to you that this tape could be a device to re-enforce public opinion 'bout Bin Laden? Can this not be planted (or created) evidence, much like how they tried so hard to convict OJSimpson (even though he was obviously guilty)? Is this not impossible? One should never deny the possibility of a dishonest and manipulative government, under any circumstances.

freakystyley
 
2001-12-14 09:51:20 AM  
For all the Farkers here,

If you think the tape is a fake, farking prove it. Quit your biatching about how the US govt lying to us. Put up or shut up.

Like I said yesterday, I don't care how long the govt supposed took to make it. There are more talented people in the private sector than in the public sector. If it is a fake, it WILL be debunked in good time.
 
2001-12-14 09:52:46 AM  
Was that "Osama Autopsy" video on Fox faked?
 
2001-12-14 09:53:45 AM  
Couple of things. That should be:
how the US govt is lying

and

govt supposedly took
 
2001-12-14 09:55:53 AM  
Rebrane: Correction: your attention will be drawn not to Afghanistan, but to your biased media such as Fox. It's not like you're actually there overlooking everything... what's even creepier is that it's not like the media is actually there either! The media is on a need-to-know basis. And what the media needs to know are stories that will manipulate... er, shape national opinion.

freakystyley
 
2001-12-14 09:56:40 AM  
Allow me to paraphrase the incisive biting and even handed commentary from NewsMax:

"Some stupid-heads think the tape was faked. It wasn't. They suck. But if it was faked, then Clinton did it. And Clinton sucks too."

I smell a Pulitzer!
 
2001-12-14 09:59:38 AM  
IDGAF: I'm sure somebody would be glad to debunk the tape. Let's ask the Pentagon to allow access to the original tape. Even better, let's ask the Pentagon how they got the tape in the first place. I'm sure they'll sing like a canary.

freakystyley
 
2001-12-14 10:02:27 AM  
Talk about beating a dead horse!

er... HELLO? Clinton is not President anymore!
 
TV
2001-12-14 10:04:18 AM  
osama is innocent. the attacks on the WTC were clearly orchestrated by the satan worshipping Clintons and zionist conspirators in florida who were upset about the presidential elections. wake up people! osama bin laden is not a murderer, he is a freedom fighter. i liken his persecution to the persecution of our lord and savior Jesus Christ. George Bush is a man i greatly love and respect, but he got it wrong here, and he's letting the zionists drive a wedge between us and our important partners in the oil industry.
 
2001-12-14 10:06:48 AM  
It doesn't matter if it was doctored because
we are America and we can do whatever we want.
WHAP-A-DANG!
 
2001-12-14 10:07:21 AM  
No, no TV, it was David Icke's nazi vampire lizard shape-changers.
 
2001-12-14 10:08:37 AM  
FreakStyley: Why the hell do we need the originals? No matter how well it could have been faked, a copy from television could be used to prove if it is a fake or not.
 
2001-12-14 10:09:46 AM  
Appie
Goatman
Harmonica
Rei (when she wakes up)
GrOOvey (when he puts the bong down)

Never before has Emerson's aphorism, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds," been more clearly on display.
 
2001-12-14 10:11:00 AM  
What's to gain from a fake tape, really? If it IS fake are we gonna take back the bombs? If they faked it, why not release it in the month before we attacked? The Mars pictures must be fake too, right? Because the gov lies just to trick us, right?
 
2001-12-14 10:14:52 AM  
AS AN ENGINEERING STUDENT who has analyzed the tower's collapse in class, some of bin Ladin's logic in the tape struck me as suspicious.

bin Ladin said he had made scientific calculations finding that the part of the tower above the plane's spot of impact impact would collapse because the ignited fuel would melt steel on that floor. He said he was surprised the whole tower came down.

Popular media circuits have talked about the melting steel. If bin Ladin had done any scientific reasoning however, he should have known ahead of time the whole building would have fallen. The weight of the structure falling just one story would have caused a structural failure in all the stories below. See this report on why that is obvious.

I hate that silly biatch too, but something seems fishy about this video.
 
2001-12-14 10:18:24 AM  
All that proves is that these a-holes were shiatty engineers. What a surprise.
 
2001-12-14 10:21:04 AM  
Blargh! Thanks, whoever posted this, for subjecting us to a bunch of conservative propagandizing hogwash in the guise of "news."
 
2001-12-14 10:21:10 AM  
Indie - May I suggest to you that OBL was simply blowing smoke up the robes of his sycophant circle jerking companions? Perhaps he had no F-ing clue about the structural engineering issues, notwithstanding the fact the daddy owns a bigass construction company. You don't think that maybe he's just a freakin lunatic, terrorist, blowhard, DEAD MAN WALKING!
 
2001-12-14 10:24:38 AM  
[image from reynoldskitchens.com too old to be available]
I stole this stuff from my job at Taco Bell. Ma'am.
 
2001-12-14 10:26:26 AM  
For those of you who think it's a fake, here's some more fuel for your conspiracy theories.
 
2001-12-14 10:31:42 AM  
Harmonia - You're right, and Fb's wrong. (I can't believe that I wrote that.) The camera motion characteristics and image quality stongly suggest to me a hand-held camera or typical 8mm or VHS quality. The persons on the tape should have been aware that they were being filmed.

Those who assume the tape false are as intellectually dishonest as those who assume it true. Examine the tape. Ask yourself the hard questions: why do I believe what I believe about this particular item, and am I truly willing to accept credible evidence to the contrary.

I believe the tape true because I can't find any such evidence. It meets the standard of proof "beyond a reasonable doubt." I am troubled by the long passages which are untranslated, notably when 'the Shaykh' speaks. I expect that they are simply irrelevant, and third party translations should indicate whether they are or not. I still wish they were translated.

The nihilistic cynicism of blindly disbelief is as intellectually dishonest as blind nationalistic fervor. There isn't time in life to question everything. We must depend upon authorities when we are incapable of judging for ourselves, but we must also question our chosen authorities whenever we can. I'd like to think that the truth will always emerge, but history shows otherwise. We're fallible, and so are our institutions. As long as we question them whenever possible and correct them when they go wrong, I can live with that.

Thanks for questioning, Harmonia & Appie, but I'm not swayed yet.
 
2001-12-14 10:39:47 AM  
I will simply believe the tape true until otherwise. I'm sure there are many people who are working as hard as they can to prove the tape is a fake, so if one of them comes up with something, then I'll listen. Until then, simply calling the tape fake because it was released by the government or it has a few "suspicious" elements is retarded. It is a real tape until proven otherwise. Period.
 
2001-12-14 10:41:29 AM  
For the reasoning impaired, I will lay this out for you in the simplest of terms.

The tape is real because the risk-reward ratio for the U.S. to fake it is incalculably skewed against faking it. There is essentially NOTHING to be gained and EVERYTHING to lose. That is all any rational person needs to understand to put this silly thread to bed.
 
2001-12-14 10:45:38 AM  
IDGAF: We need the original tape 'cause it's the only way to be sure... that, or nuke the entire planet from space :).

freakystyley
 
2001-12-14 10:56:42 AM  
Freakystyley nice site you got there.
 
2001-12-14 10:58:49 AM  
If we can just kill Osama there will be no more terrorists, right?

right?

guys?

am I right? there will be no more terrorists?

guys?
 
2001-12-14 11:00:04 AM  
Dalai Lama: Thanks :). Noticed the Give Me Convenience or Give Me Death Fark image in your profile. You like DK? I'm workin' on a tribute section for my site.

freakystyley
 
2001-12-14 11:04:42 AM  
Well folks, it appears trite answers are all that is left of this thread.

Poor logic must be Freakstyley's superpower for today.
 
2001-12-14 11:08:29 AM  
IDGAF: That's usually the case in the clash of opinions. You could be wrong; I could be wrong. But we would both be fools to drink the media coolaid without hesitation.

freakystyley
 
2001-12-14 11:12:16 AM  
It's not News...
It's News TO THE MAX....DUDE!!!

Everyone knows it's fake. Osama Doesn't wear Bruno Magli shoes. Mark Fuhrman planted the tape to frame him because he hates Muslims. People heard Fuhrman refer to Muslims as Jawas.
 
2001-12-14 11:13:24 AM  
Is it a bird?

Is it a plane?

No! It's Contrived-And-Distinctly-Perverse-Logic-Boy!
 
2001-12-14 11:17:01 AM  
Freakystyley, soup is good food. ...YES, I like DK, very much.
 
2001-12-14 11:20:57 AM  
Is it a bird?

Is it a plane?

Yes - it's a farking plane! Run!
 
2001-12-14 11:23:12 AM  
Tostfeld:
You are right! Was that article about OBL or Clinton. There was more info in there about Clinton's escapades than anything else. I guess since Clinton was such a popular president, regardless of what he did, some people are still a little jealous.

"It's over, lets move on"- George W.

By the way, the tape is most definitely real. Only OBL and his cronies would be stupid enough to tape themselves reciteing that poem and other Islamic fundie crap. He probably thought no one would ever see it.
 
Rei
2001-12-14 11:24:58 AM  
Laf, Midgettossa :)
 
2001-12-14 11:25:20 AM  
Damn, you all don't know how to do a proper conspiracy.

The entire episode was orchestrated to get the media attention away from the two alcoholic Bush daughters, and it worked real well.
 
2001-12-14 11:29:47 AM  
Icecycle,

You may have a point.
 
2001-12-14 11:29:50 AM  
Usually people refer to a liberal bias when talking about news reports, but this literature seems to have a clear conservative bias.
 
2001-12-14 11:31:29 AM  
Freakystyley

The point is, I don't give a flying fark about the tape. I asked whether OBL has ever denied being involved in the attacks. Has he? If not, why not? What does he stand to gain by associating himself with the attacks, thereby signing his own death warrant? It's not like the guy doesn't have access to the media, for fark's sake.

Enlighten me.

You wrote:

Has it occured to you that this tape could be a device to re-enforce public opinion 'bout Bin Laden?

Is this even an issue? Does public opinion need any reinforcing here? We've all known he's guilty for weeks now. I suspect the only real weight this tape will carry is when the U.S. lays out the links between OBL and Iraq as a pretext to wipe Saddam off the face of the Earth.

Can this not be planted (or created) evidence, much like how they tried so hard to convict OJSimpson (even though he was obviously guilty)?

Again, what's the point? If Osama were innocent, he'd say as much. Wouldn't he? And the government was behind the O.J. Simpson mess? Really? Whatever, man. Maybe your use of "they" was generalized to the LAPD and wasn't referring to the U.S. government.

One should never deny the possibility of a dishonest and manipulative government, under any circumstances.

Oops! Your agenda's showing!
 
2001-12-14 11:32:35 AM  
HappyDude,

I don't buy that reasoning as sound at all, or proof that it is real for that matter. The USA has just as much, if not more, to gain by this. This is a war of public opinion, not a war on terrorism, and the Bush administration could conceivably gain support even from the fundamentalist muslim community if they produce a smoking gun...
 
2001-12-14 11:34:27 AM  
Why is it so hard for people to believe that he did what he said he would do? And why wouldn't he talk about it? No way would he let anyone know that he did it!? Crap, he's more likely to boast about even if he didn't have anything to do with it. It's his driving ambition to kill Americans anywhere he can, civilians or not. Hello!? Fatwa?
Anybody read what he's said, what he's written? I love the stories of the people saying, "It must be faked because Islam is a religion of peace, and Osama is a good muslim". They obviously are illiterate, no doubt because their leaders won't let them go to school. Otherwise they could easily read Osama's fatwa and all out declaration of war on any american in the world, man, woman, or child.
 
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