Damn slow load times...

My recommendation is to avoid him, Cat. If you like Moorcock, you probably won't enjoy Camus.

Imagine someone who's as self-pitying as Gaynor, twice as self-serving, nowhere near as competent, and who is the narrator of the novel.

And remove the Eternal Champion to biatch-slap his a$$ into Limbo.

Check that: "...to biatch slap..." into "...Biatch-slapping..."

In some cultures, when a young male reaches a certain age, his father takes him to a brothel.

In others the young male runs over a female jogger in order to copulate with the corpse.

Words farking fail me.

The Headsman of Lille

I have reliable word that Prince Arvajh is already assembling a picked team of warriors to attack him. Rackhir the Red Archer and Brut of Lashmar are already on board, and word is they're gonna rope in the Legion of the Dawn and Sepiriz too.

Will Oswald Bastable and Una Persson provide air support?

Also, will John Daker find an Actorios in a Cracker-Jack box and summon the Warriors on the Edge of Time?

The Headsman of Lille

My recommendation is to avoid him, Cat. If you like Moorcock, you probably won't enjoy Camus.

Imagine someone who's as self-pitying as Gaynor, twice as self-serving, nowhere near as competent, and who is the narrator of the novel.

Bleah. I'd probably be better off taking another shot at reading Kant, Schopenhauer, and Tolstoy.

/wonders when the sequel to "The Skrayling Tree" will come out...

Let he who doesn't have the overwhelming urge to kill a woman and have sex with her corpse cast the first stone.

Catracks

Mental illness is not excuse. If you're farked in the head, all the more reason to take you off this earth permanently. These people know they're hurting. They just don't give a fark further than their own wants and needs.

Depends on what kind of mental illness you have. Some know and don't give a shiat, some have no idea how they affect others.

Last dance with Mary Jane, one more time to feel the pain

Catracks
anrwlias,
I don't care if they stick him in a septic tank. Just as long as they stick him somewhere.

Mental illness is not excuse. If you're farked in the head, all the more reason to take you off this earth permanently. These people know they're hurting. They just don't give a fark further than their own wants and needs.

Anyone who says that "mental illness is [no] excuse" has never seen mental illness up close.

Let me explain where I'm coming from. My brother has profound schizophrenia. Now, you talk about schizophrenia and people get this comic book image of people talking with multiple personalities ("I don't have schizophrenia and neither do I"), but the reality is much more horrible.

Basically, he lives in a continuous, unending hallucination. At times, he's believed that my father was Adolf Hitler, that he, himself, was Jesus Christ, that I went to an elite government academy every day (whisked away by fighter jets), that certain flower arrangements were intended to be insults to him. He was once very upset because he thought that he had killed a bunch of people by re-arranging the letters of the alphabet.

So why haven't we institutionalized him? We've tried, but there's two problems. One, the state is chronically low on funding, so there's a lot of political pressure to release people who aren't utterly incapable of caring for themselves (which usually translates as "if we can give them enough medications to make them act marginally normal, they're okay"). The second is that psychiatrists hate to admit that there's such a thing as an incurable condition. So, you have psyches that want to claim that he's been "treated" and a state that doesn't want to spend taxpayer money keeping him in permanent care.

Am I afraid that someday he's going to hurt someone? Absolutely. My brother doesn't have a good connection to reality. His world is like a permanent dream that he can't wake up from and he's about as responsible for his actions as for your actions when you are dreaming.

So... you want to tell me that we should "stick him in a septic tank"? Well fark you. You think that he should "take himself off this earth permanently"? Fark you twice and, while we're at it, please explain to me how someone who thinks that the arrangement of the alphabet could kill people would be capable of making that decision for himself?

You see, that's the horror of mental illness. They CAN'T control their actions. When they do bad things, it's not because they're bad people... it's because they aren't living in the nice, orderly universe that you and I are living in. Most of the time, they don't even understand what they are doing. For those of us around them who have to care for them, all we can do is to try our damnedest to try and prevent them from doing any harm to themselves or others while hoping that we can, this time, get the state to put him somewhere where he can be cared for for the rest of his life.

But all you can see is the consequence of an action and you just want your eye for an eye.

I can feel sorry for people with mental illness. For people like you, all I have is contempt.

PM anrwlias: "Anyone who says that "mental illness is [no] excuse" has never seen mental illness up close."

Bullshiat, i know better than most. My mother obsessive compulsive personality disorder and a myriad of borderline personality disorders. She is also a child abuser.

I never asked to be physically and emotionally tortured for years. I'm supposed to forgive her? Bullshiat! She's a crazy freak. She makes everyone who has to be around her miserable. I keep my own daughter far from her.

Sorry your brother has scrambled eggs for brains, but if he kills someone he is just as guilty as if he had a clear head. The results to the victim are the same.

i bet he runs over them fat farkin squrriels too! what does that make him? Necrobeastialiac?

/shudder.

2004-02-26 01:39:21 PM Dasboot
he was just an exciteable boy

/Warren Zevon

word.

"then he dug up her grave and built a cage with her bones..."

This guy needs to be raped with a bandsaw.

"Am I afraid that someday he's going to hurt someone? Absolutely"

Interesting. You think he's capable of hurting someone and you keep him at home? What good judgement on your part.

Catracks OK, lets continue the argument, because I love this stuff: I have a number of crazy people in my life. I married a man who for all practical purposes ruined my life. My mother is emotionally abusive. My sister is nuts. They are not schizophrenic--not the 'nuts' where you don't know what you're doing. But they still don't know what they're doing. I hate my ex-husband--but nobody knows better than I do what a miserable, sick person he really is. You don't have to forgive them, you don't even have to try to understand them. But they don't know what they're doing any more than the schizophrenics do. My ex still loves me, and so does my mother. They still treat me like shiat.

There are support groups for this stuff now. Very good ones too.

It's the fault of those damn video games I tell ya!

Like my wacko mother told me, Catracks: Hatred is like eating poison and waiting for the other person to die. she's nuts, but she does make sense sometimes.

Catracks
PM anrwlias: "Anyone who says that "mental illness is [no] excuse" has never seen mental illness up close."

Bullshiat, i know better than most. My mother obsessive compulsive personality disorder and a myriad of borderline personality disorders. She is also a child abuser.

Borderline personality disorders and obsessive-compulsive behavior are to schizophrenia and related illnesses what a twenty-four hour cold is to ebola. You aren't even on the same farking page.

As for her being a child abuser, was she cognizent and aware of her actions? Was she capable of distinguishing right from wrong? If so, she bears the responsibility of her actions.

I never asked to be physically and emotionally tortured for years. I'm supposed to forgive her? Bullshiat! She's a crazy freak.

You've got my sympathy, but if you think that you've seen real mental illness, based on this, then you're deluded.

She makes everyone who has to be around her miserable. I keep my own daughter far from her.

That's perfectly understandable but I get sick of people thinking that petty neuroses are anything like profound mental illness. You may well consider your mom to be a "psycho", but if she was able to act like a functional (albeit sadistic) member of society, then I'm afraid you are comparing apples to oranges.

Sorry your brother has scrambled eggs for brains, but if he kills someone he is just as guilty as if he had a clear head.

No, he is not. You see, that "clear head" thing is where the point of responsibility lies. If someone can't understand their actions then they aren't responsible in either the legal or the moral sense and anyone who insists that they are is talking out of their trousers.

The results to the victim are the same.

If someone got killed by an avalanche the results would be the same, too. Would you insist that a landslide was moral culpable? For that matter, would you suggest that we execute a three year old that managed to shoot someone?

If you think that your mother was a valid sample of someone who is mental ill, I can understand some of your loathing, but she does not sound like a representative case of real illness.

If you really want to see the face of genuine insanity, go visit a mental hospital. Try and have a conversation with one of the schizophrenics. Then... maybe then... you might understand.

I think the ones with personality disorders know exactly what they are doing. They are just unwilling to control the compulsions. The compulsions are too strong and they have weak minds. This includes a lot of those serial killers out there.

In the case of dear madre: she knew she was hurting me. It gave her perverse pleasure. She was unhappy and had to have her outlet. I was told for years that I had to endure, because she couldn't help it. Bah!

I do believe schizophrenics do not know what they are doing. Still, if they hurt someone the consequences are the same. This kid in the news story had a compulsion he could no longer control. He could have killed her and then defiled her. As it its, she will never be the same again.

Thank for the support group tip. If I need them they are there. The happy thing is that I always realized that I didn't deserve how I was being treated and she was a perp. of violence. The people that end up in therapy have trouble realize that. My father and I got away from her some years ago. We both have our own functional families now. She is still sabatoging her own life and making others miserable.

One of the lessons learned were that it's silly to pity a dangerously mentally ill person at the expense of the family or community.

Catracks
"Am I afraid that someday he's going to hurt someone? Absolutely"

Interesting. You think he's capable of hurting someone and you keep him at home? What good judgement on your part.

Where do you suggest we "keep" him? As I've stated, we've tried our damnedest to get him institutionalized. The state won't keep him there.

Shall we just put him out on the street, thereby increasing the possibility that he'll hurt either himself or someone else? Should we take him around to the shed and just shoot him? Perhaps we should take you your little "septic tank" advice?

By all means, oh great and wise one, tell us, what would you have us do?

Yeah, but was she the type of girl you take home to mom?

Catracks
I do believe schizophrenics do not know what they are doing. Still, if they hurt someone the consequences are the same.

A consequence is not the same as a responsibility. If it was, we'd be executing children who accidentally shoot people. A schizophrenic is in exactly the same position as a child with a gun. To suggest that schizophrenic should recieve the same punishment for a crime as someone who was cognizent of their actions is ludicrous.

Should they be seggregated from society? Absolutely! I said that in my very Boobies. I am NOT supporting the notion that someone who is mental ill and a potential (or demonstrated) danger to themselves or others should just get a free pass back into society. I believe, very strongly, that permanent institutionalization should be an option. But that's not what you and others are saying. You're saying you don't care what happens to them, and others are saying that they "deserve" to go to prison (with a strong contingent hoping that they get raped in the process).

Since these people can NOT help themselves, I think that it behooves society to help them. But we don't like to do that. Everytime an insanity defense comes us, people assume that it's just someone faking insanity so that they can get a cushy visit to a mental institution followed by a quick release. The thing is, some people really are sick and they need to be put in a place where they can't hurt anyone and where they can be cared for.

It's not an idea that fits comfortably into an eye-for-an-eye mentality, but it is the right thing to do.

One of the lessons learned were that it's silly to pity a dangerously mentally ill person at the expense of the family or community.

If the community was willing to take responsibility for the mentally ill, there would be far fewer of these terrible consequences that you're so hung up on.

The bottom line is that I want people who are mentally ill removed from ordinary society, too. I just don't see the justice in sending them to prison.

Reposting because of the stupid "f%rst p%st" filter.

--

anrwlias


Catracks
I do believe schizophrenics do not know what they are doing. Still, if they hurt someone the consequences are the same.

A consequence is not the same as a responsibility. If it was, we'd be executing children who accidentally shoot people. A schizophrenic is in exactly the same position as a child with a gun. To suggest that schizophrenic should recieve the same punishment for a crime as someone who was cognizent of their actions is ludicrous.

Should they be seggregated from society? Absolutely! I said that in my initial post. I am NOT supporting the notion that someone who is mental ill and a potential (or demonstrated) danger to themselves or others should just get a free pass back into society. I believe, very strongly, that permanent institutionalization should be an option. But that's not what you and others are saying. You're saying you don't care what happens to them, and others are saying that they "deserve" to go to prison (with a strong contingent hoping that they get raped in the process).

Since these people can NOT help themselves, I think that it behooves society to help them. But we don't like to do that. Everytime an insanity defense comes us, people assume that it's just someone faking insanity so that they can get a cushy visit to a mental institution followed by a quick release. The thing is, some people really are sick and they need to be put in a place where they can't hurt anyone and where they can be cared for.

It's not an idea that fits comfortably into an eye-for-an-eye mentality, but it is the right thing to do.

One of the lessons learned were that it's silly to pity a dangerously mentally ill person at the expense of the family or community.

If the community was willing to take responsibility for the mentally ill, there would be far fewer of these terrible consequences that you're so hung up on.

The bottom line is that I want people who are mentally ill removed from ordinary society, too. I just don't see the justice in sending them to prison.

"It's my life
Don't you forget
It's my life
It never ends
Funny how I blind myself"

/Talk Talk lyrics

I guess he forgot it's her life. His desires superseded her desire to live. Burn his ass on the electric chair. No pity for this Asshat.

Not everyday that this podunk f*cking town gets on FARK! Woo Hoo!

Didn't Stephen Lynch write a song about this a few years ago?

But if loving a corpse is a sin,
I'll see you in hell.

No, a lot of personality disorders DON'T know what they are doing. Some do. A lot of them just think they are doing what they have to do to protect themselves. Remember, somebody screwed THEM up long before they got to us--some loving parent, usually.

So... we can't find a picture of her huh?

/so so sorry

This guy is an asshat. Sick, sick, sick.

That's just gross. Wow.

anrwlias: "If someone got killed by an avalanche the results would be the same, too. Would you insist that a landslide was moral culpable? For that matter, would you suggest that we execute a three year old that managed to shoot someone?"

That's just the point. I don't care why these people do what they do. Just the fact that they do it. I'm not interested in punishment. I want them factored out of the equation. If there is an avalanche, I don't assess blame, I just get rid of the snow.

Three year olds grow up and learn that there are things you shouldn't do. Mental illness is always there.

Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder is no simple neurosis. Yes, it's not as weird or cross wired as schizophrenia, but it is more dangerous. They are able to abuse their family and pull on a "normal" face for the outside world. She may not have been "raving," but she did things that would make your hair curl. Ever see "Mommy Dearest"? Try 10 times worse. Christina Crawford was not making that stuff up.

"Shall we just put him out on the street, thereby increasing the possibility that he'll hurt either himself or someone else? Should we take him around to the shed and just shoot him? Perhaps we should take you your little "septic tank" advice?"

I get your point, but if he hurt my kid, I'd have no problem demanding that he get death.

Cryingoutloud: "Like my wacko mother told me, Catracks: Hatred is like eating poison and waiting for the other person to die. she's nuts, but she does make sense sometimes."

Funny, I only start getting upset when people tell me that I should pity the mentally ill. Otherwise I'm pretty damn happy all the time. Well, extremely content.

Sick with a capital "Blech." He'll find out what it's like to have sex with a corpse when the inmates beat him half to death and ass rape him to kingdom come.

Who said anything about "pity?" I hate my ex. But he's more miserable on his own than anything I could ever do to him.

And you don't sound extremely content. Not that I dont' see your point--hatred kept me alive for a long time. Whatever floats your boat. But I finally had to go do something else.

E-mail me if you'd like to continue this argument. I"m a student, I live here with the computer. I also like a good argument.

Regardless of his mental state, this piece of garbage needs to be removed from society. I'm sure the taxpayers wouldn't mind footing the bill for his bread & water. But no f*ing cable, free weights, or other crap that are made available to cons.

A little sarin gas at a high school dance and you could have quite the harem - without even scratching the meat.

Okay, okay. Enough. I don't believe the mentally ill should be abused. I just don't want anyone else to get hurt. Yes, it is up to us (the ones who know better) to make sure they are safe and cannot hurt anybody. I don't hate someone just because they are mentally ill. I can however hate someone for what they do to people.

The anger did keep me alive at one time. I'm done with it. Now I just tend to overstate my case. I just have a strong feeling about personal accountability and think it's too simple or easy when people say they are not responsible. I think people can be really farked in the head and still know what they are doing is wrong.

Got your email. Thanks. I might drop you a line if you don't mind. It seems we have a lot in common. Single mother, student, etc.

And anrwlias, I do apoligize for being seeminly cold-hearted as to what you are going through. I've seen innocent people suffer. Lots of kids. Perhaps more of the blame should go to those who should have known better.

I hear you, Catracks. I rarely see my only child. I bet you can guess where he is now.

Kids, they're a lot of work - but they're worth it

'Crayingoutloud' 'Catracks', I think it sounds like you guys are doing one of those proverbial apples vs. oranges debates. The case of a spouse, or parent, or other intimate trusted individual you have some sort of relationship with, who 'turns' on you, and does everything ranging from mind games, to bankrupting you, taking your children from you inside or outside of legal means, to assaulting you physically, and then gets away with it, has indeed a high degree of suckage. There are probably cases of this type of crazy that would fall on either side of the fence, with regard to innocence of accountability on the basis of being certifiably deranged.

However, this guy, and what he did, was an aberrant act perpetrated on someone he did not know. It does not sound directly comparable to either of what I've a feeling your situations were, nor do your individual experiences and perceptions sound like they can be equated ever, or even properly related to one another without a good deal of explanation. We all have reason to have animosity, some more than others, I'm sorry for it - personal expirience can weigh heavily on social outlook.

Todesritter, Only that the argument was about accountability and whether someone who is mentally ill should or should not be considered not responsible for their actions. I was told that something I said made it obvious that I had never personally dealt with someone mentally ill.

My opinion is someone can be truly farked up in the and still know right from wrong. Also if it is a case of dimished responsibility, the act is still evil and gross. I am of the opinion that if someone has that capability and no remorse, they are even more of a threat to society.

Yes, personal experience colors us all. Sometimes it invades the logic of my arguments ... okay often. :-P

Sh*t like this doesn't surprise me anymore. If humanity actually got its act together and became enlighten, THEN I would start worrying.

skinink
"Scuse me, Ms Hurley, would you mind standing in front of my car for a second ..."

Dude, if you have Elizabeth Hurley heeding your advice, you ask her to get IN your car, and for at least an hour!

Wow, this guy is seriously messed up.

FarkityFarkFark: Brilliant.

java_drinker
Turns out he did it because he didn't think he could get a girl to have sex with him. He was a date-less wonder in school and thought he would die a virgin. He was also scared of females and thought he had a small penis.

Wow, it's almost like you know me.

I think its prettty farked how they had to point out that he was husky and how the corpse-sex-doll-to-be had a 'shock of wavy hair' and was pretty and petite

This kid needs a time out.