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(CNN) NewsFlash Bin Laden tape released   (cnn.com ) divider line
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7718 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Dec 2001 at 11:10 AM (14 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2001-12-13 01:48:19 PM  
Rhynofive:
This video could be soooo fake. Bush would love to get the American people supporting a strike. That way a farking republican could stay in office for the next 8 years or whatever. I think he just wants and excuse to have the people backing him up so he can buy weapons from all his republican friends.

(Most of) the American people already support the current military strikes, Bush's approval rating is already quite high (making the chances of a second term greater than his previous snoball's chance in hell), and the guv. is already buying-up weapons from republican friends...so why, exactly would there need to be a faked video to accopmplish these things that are already actualities? Sure it could be faked, but it probably isn't.
 
2001-12-13 01:48:36 PM  
MattIdoll: Oh... wait, I forgot: I'm not a Commie, I just don't believe everything the government/media/Christianity feeds me.

I love the smell of knee-jerk skepticism in the morning.
 
lbo
2001-12-13 01:50:32 PM  
Nez:

erring on the side of caution would be saying "wow, I can't determine the authenticity of the tape at this time"

I haven't seen many of those in this forum. It's either "kill the mofo" or "dubya is up to his tricks again"
 
lbo
2001-12-13 01:52:26 PM  

MattIdol1:


I didn't say I believed the tape was real.
 
2001-12-13 01:53:00 PM  
Geonags, I don't sail on a boat because it would be impossible for me to survive for very long. I don't know anything about the ocean. I'd probably get eaten by a shark or something. It would be much more feasible for the billions of people in the world all collectively dissolved their governments, living in harmony without any central leadership.

Diabolik, I love it too. What I don't love is being called a Commie/tree-hugger/terrorist-hugger every time I make an attempt to challenge the status quo.
 
2001-12-13 01:54:54 PM  
I haven't seen many of those in this forum. It's either "kill the mofo" or "dubya is up to his tricks again"

Lbo makes a good point.
 
2001-12-13 01:56:34 PM  
MattIdol1,

Good luck surving in this anarchy world of yours...it wouldn't be paradise...there would be total chaos...people would not live in harmony...what are you smoking?
 
2001-12-13 01:58:37 PM  
Let's say it is fake...

Why would the U.S. Government make such a tape? Continued U.S. support for the war? Or maybe to get Osama so pissed off causing him to make a mistake and get caught.
Osama will release a statement and U.S. Intelligence will find him. Bush will admit help from Hollywood Council and all is forgiven for the sake of Good over Evil.

The old bait and lure theory.....ha ha it's a joke
 
2001-12-13 01:58:55 PM  
Realisticly it doesn't matter or not if it is fake. It will have it's desired effect and the US will do whatever the fark they want to do regardless of it's authenticity. Just think how much it will stimulate the economy.
 
2001-12-13 02:00:47 PM  
"But war is the mother of lies. Find who has the most to gain and there you'll have your villan."

Evil men can advance their own agendas under the cover of goodness.

Whereas any campaign we undertake in Afghanistan may be the correct thing to do, it does not mean that incompetence will be stopped.

Laziness, apathy and ignorance remain the greatest enemies.

Now off to watch some footie.

Shawn
 
2001-12-13 02:01:36 PM  
Of course it wouldn't be paradise! The whole point of anarchism is that it is not a utopia. Everyone fending for themselves means if you get hurt, you take direct responsibility for it. No money, no possessions. Just individuals who could choose to either a) form new, small governments to suit their community needs, or b) roam around by themselves.

I'm not smoking anything, either.
 
2001-12-13 02:02:02 PM  
Realisticly it doesn't matter or not if it is fake. It will have it's desired effect and the US will do whatever the fark they want to do regardless of it's authenticity. Just think how much it will stimulate the economy.

Apparenlty nothing is helping.....

Dubya takes down a couple of buildings so he can fire up the war machine and ensure a second term......no real help.

He evicts the Taliban, no help.

Now this video tape.....market still down and all the rate drops have don't diddly.....

Now it's time to break out the ol' ball buster. Good ol' fightin' with Russia about missles....

(sarcasm, it goes to 11)
 
lbo
2001-12-13 02:03:03 PM  
MattIdol1

Challenge the status quo all you want. All I ask is that you don't say it's fake for the sake of voicing a dissenting opinion. If you don't believe the tape, back it up with FACTS, not conjecture or assumptions.

The tape will be analyzed by digital media experts for years. I'll take what they have to say about it with more salt than "But have you seen jurassic park?" or "profiles are easier to fake than frontal shots"

Personally, I don't know anything about arabic, or video editing, and I already view CNN as rose-colored glasses for the US, so I'm not sure what to think.
 
2001-12-13 02:04:11 PM  
Just individuals who could choose to either a) form new, small governments to suit their community needs, or b) roam around by themselves.


That's how we got to where we are today. Small gov't's breed bigger ones and so on and so on.....

Nobody is stopping you from roaming around by yourself now.
 
2001-12-13 02:06:29 PM  
Lbo, I personally doubt that the tape is fake. But I have this personal "ideal" that I always keep in the back of my mind: never assume everything you see/hear/believe is true, moral, or ethical.
 
2001-12-13 02:06:37 PM  
mattidol1 what's funny is that if you're really challenging the status quo you'll be called a leftist nut by the conservatives and a conservative nut by the leftists.
 
2001-12-13 02:06:41 PM  
Someone get UBL and his friend a pair of lung suckers or something. That sucking sound was just too damned annoying.


*ssslliirrpp!* *weeze*

:p
 
Rei
2001-12-13 02:07:46 PM  
Everyone fending for themselves means if you get hurt, you take direct responsibility for it.

Hardly. A solitary goatherder in the middle of the most remote place of afghanistan gets taken out by a Northern Alliance commander's troops when they see him, because they want his posessions. Was it his fault? What more could he have done?
 
2001-12-13 02:08:32 PM  
Good one LordoftheRings!

What if, though, you know?
 
2001-12-13 02:09:05 PM  
Der_jackal, of course no one is stopping me. I just believe that EVERYONE should do it, not just me. By the way, if I were to roam around, what would I see? Suburbs? *Yawn*

P.S., the reason the small governments would not form into bigger ones would be because people like me would "roam" around, making sure that didn't happen.
 
2001-12-13 02:09:47 PM  
bluelanugo we are certainly stupid about them, and they are certainly stupid about us. we like to think, though, that the degree of our cultural misunderstanding is slightly less than theirs, and just enough to give us a strategic edge.
 
2001-12-13 02:10:18 PM  
These men will die. That is justice. What you say here will not change either of those things.
 
2001-12-13 02:10:37 PM  
MattIdol1 - "It would be much more feasible for the billions of people in the world all collectively dissolved their governments, living in harmony without any central leadership."

OK, I'm not making accusations but your not one of the people who say "When the US walks out and leaves Afghanistan without leadership it will collapse into civil war and it wil be our fault" are you?
 
2001-12-13 02:10:37 PM  
America was BOMBED. Why would a fake video be needed to justify any sort of retalliation? To think that any media hype is needed to avenge the attrocities which have occured is crazy.
 
2001-12-13 02:10:59 PM  
P.S., the reason the small governments would not form into bigger ones would be because people like me would "roam" around, making sure that didn't happen.

So, you'd be acting as a form of watchdog? Why should I subscribe to you being my watch dog. Why should I believe that you have my best interests in mind when you roam poking your nose in on governments around this society?

And if you got out of North America, you'd see alot more of than suburbs...
 
2001-12-13 02:11:12 PM  
Fb-: ...Much better quality on the tape than I expected.

I wonder, does that make it seem more likely to be real, or less likely? Would a poorer quality tape be more likely to be faked, or would it be more likely to be authentic?

Undflickertail, Fb-, Harmonia, others: Unless you know Arabic, why assume the translation provided by the military is correct?

DaPharmer: all movie villians give away their big plot for everyone to see and hear.. why shouldn't this piece of shiat

Doesn't it seem odd that reality should mimic a Hollywood movie? Truth is stranger than fiction, isn't it? If reality seems a lot like a scripted production... what might really be happening?

Goatman264: It does tend to beg the question of why the person filming him (if it was an American) didn't just shoot him there and then.

Because he wouldn't have survived long enough to get out of the room to take the tape back to the U.S.

Disasterbator: could that possibly be a metaphor -- or do they really think that we live in cave villages?!

No, I'm kind of guessing they know that we sometimes live in tall skyscrapers.

Tensionfilter: it it was faked then they put a lot of effort in faking it fake arab background noise fake arab speaking...

If it was faked, then they've had 3 months to put together a 30 minute video and run it before test audiences... food for thought there.

GandalfTheWhite: Iraq has already been declared the next likely US target. Osama wouldn't go there. He'd be better off in Iran, which the US is hoping someday to get buddy with.

MojoGobo: any movie with a scene where a main character talks to a large audience, that isn't near the end of the movie (when rising music would block all that out)

Anyway, if this is supposed to be a damning piece of evidence, I'd like to see something come up from after the war in afghanistan that has a well-lit, decently clear shot of Osama. OBL's face is extremely dark. I can't say that I think it's a fake, but I can't also say that I think it's real if I can't even see the person it's supposed to be.

If the posters in this forum are any indication, most Americans will accept any random dark-skinned man with a long beard and turban to be Osama Bin Laden, and promptly want to kill him.
 
2001-12-13 02:11:26 PM  
Folks, its times like these we ought to examine Occam's Razor: Do not postulate entities without need.
(i.e keep it simple, stupid)

What makes better sense: The U.S, being run by a sneaky conspiracy of Christian Oilmen quietly gather the greatest CG and Special effects experts to create, (very late in their war effort when the public has already given their consent) a justification of their cause. If exposed, they could suffer widespread international condemnation, possible public outrage, and the stiffening of muslim resistance abroad and at home. They also are sure to pay off an otherwise reputable and scrupulous translator's firm to translate a monolgue that does not exist. Hundreds of individuals are kept quiet either through bribes or clandestine threats. The media, who has formerly been hostile to the conspiracy (during the election crisis) is made compllcit by some hidden mechanism.


Or....

Osama Bin Laden, enjoying his twilight as a near legendary figre in the muslim world, endulges in a final Hitlerian rant against those who stand against him. Intended to spur his brownshirts on, it is acquired by western media who portray it as impotent and sad.

Goatman, Harmonia. Yes you have certain rights in determining what is "true" for you. You are entitled to think this is fake in the same way you are entitled to believe Stalin was a hispanic lesbian vampire who shiatted cupcakes..
 
2001-12-13 02:12:51 PM  
You know, all of this is theoretical, just like this whole thread. Its just another political theory. Whereas the left says "Wah! No big business!" and the right says "Wah! No big government," I tend to say "Screw big business and government! Mankind can live without them!"

Then again, maybe my theory would fall flat in practice, just like Communism. Anyone willing to help me find out?

And what does any of this have to do with the Bin Laden tape! Ahh!
 
2001-12-13 02:13:42 PM  
not so, bennyhana, carnivore regularly filters out Fark posts for use in defense dept. brainstorming sessions and state dept. advisory meetings. i'm sure of it.
 
2001-12-13 02:15:54 PM  
Is that Milkit gone yet? His shyte has gotten old, although he was right about Holland/Netherlands.
 
2001-12-13 02:16:18 PM  
And what does any of this have to do with the Bin Laden tape! Ahh!

Nothing, I just like tangental philosophical debates about utopian ideals :)

tangents, the seedless oranges of thought
 
2001-12-13 02:16:33 PM  
Disasterbator,

Yes, we don't understand them and they don't understand us. We did not understand how pissed-off they are at America because we support Arab governments they hate. We also did not understand what an intollerant religion they follow. They didn't understand that they better find a better way to getting their point across then attacking us or we would bomb them into oblivion.
 
2001-12-13 02:16:34 PM  
Oh, and Der_Jackal, you don't have to subscribe to my being a watchdog. If you don't like me, have your little government capture me or something.

Capitalism is supposedly "Social Darwinism," whereas my theory is Social Justice AND Social Darwinism at the same time! Boo-ya!
 
2001-12-13 02:16:45 PM  
i'll say it again...if you guys don't like the government and the society we have in america get the fuc/k out and go fight with the taleban
 
2001-12-13 02:18:02 PM  
I can't wait to see what the National Enquirer has to say about the tape. I want the "real" story. I'm sure they already have the one true copy without cuts.
 
Rei
2001-12-13 02:18:25 PM  
3.)Believe something else, and actually go out and do whatever you can to realize it. And prepare to face the consequences, if it involves sabotage of US government technology (*wink* Rei *wink*).

My god, you people are insane if you think that was anything other than a discussion about ESM/ECM techniques. Do you *honestly* think that someone from *IOWA* would leave their job, fly to *Britain*, spend their money building a jammer, and stay in Britain to attempt to jam a radar daily - as some sort of form of *protest*? You people are nuts...

OK, I'm not making accusations but your not one of the people who say "When the US walks out and leaves Afghanistan without leadership it will collapse into civil war and it wil be our fault" are you?

BTW, although that wasn't addressed to me - I'm not. Instead, I'm making accusations that Afghanistan has already begun to collapse into civil war, even with the US there.. ;)

Iraq has already been declared the next likely US target.

Nah, it's Somalia. The US is going to get Iraq once the US populace starts getting tired of us going from country to country to bomb people.
 
2001-12-13 02:21:01 PM  
MattIDoll: What I don't love is being called a Commie/tree-hugger/terrorist-hugger every time I make an attempt to challenge the status quo.

Curious: When isn't the status quo wrong?
 
lbo
2001-12-13 02:21:46 PM  
12-13-01 02:10:37 PM Lewdlulu
America was BOMBED. Why would a fake video be needed to justify any sort of retalliation? To think that any media hype is needed to avenge the attrocities which have occured is crazy.


You're right. We don't need to justify a counter-attack. But let's just make sure that we're

attacking the right people
.

(and for the record, the taliban are as responsible as the US for the civilian casualties. And the civilians are at fault for allowing the taliban to do what they did. It's a big shiat sandwich, and we all have to take a bite)
 
2001-12-13 02:22:03 PM  
Bin Laden kinda looks fat in that video. He needs a better fashion consultant if he's gonna keep appearing in videos.
 
2001-12-13 02:23:51 PM  
MattIDoll: Capitalism is supposedly "Social Darwinism," whereas my theory is Social Justice AND Social Darwinism at the same time! Boo-ya!

I'm with you on this one. Some people are hazy on the Social Justice thing, though.
 
2001-12-13 02:23:55 PM  
Rei normally your points are insightfull and founded in fact or at least have some evidence to support them but suggesting that this tape is fake is kinda off the wall, no more then kind of actually. Time to up the prozac Rei
 
2001-12-13 02:24:33 PM  
The Status Quo:

1). We need to destroy the Taliban, we need to destroy Al Qaeda.

2.) We need to beef up our homeland security.

------------------

1.) I agree that we should topple the regime and hunt down terrorists around the world.

2.) I disagree with security devices, internet spying technology, hidden cameras. I despise John Aschcroft.

------------------

So there you have it. I'm really not as pragmatic as you might think.
 
2001-12-13 02:26:49 PM  
osama= butt baby
 
2001-12-13 02:26:56 PM  
If you're concerned about why the government won't reveal the source of the tape, and why the filmer didn't shoot OBL, here's a wacky theory.

They would like to keep receiving intelligence from the source of the tape. Naming the source would likely result in the source becoming extremely dead.

As to why not shoot him--perhaps they would like to continue receiving intelligence about Al Qaeda even after OBL is removed from the picture.

Just a theory.
 
2001-12-13 02:28:34 PM  
If you're concerned about why the government won't reveal the source of the tape, and why the filmer didn't shoot OBL, here's a wacky theory.

They would like to keep receiving intelligence from the source of the tape. Naming the source would likely result in the source becoming extremely dead.

As to why not shoot him--perhaps they would like to continue receiving intelligence about Al Qaeda even after OBL is removed from the picture.

Just a theory.
 
2001-12-13 02:30:56 PM  
If you're concerned about why the government won't reveal the source of the tape, and why the filmer didn't shoot OBL, here's a wacky theory.

They would like to keep receiving intelligence from the source of the tape. Naming the source would likely result in the source becoming extremely dead.

As to why not shoot him--perhaps they would like to continue receiving intelligence about Al Qaeda even after OBL is removed from the picture.

Just a theory.
 
2001-12-13 02:34:35 PM  
MattIdoll: I agree, and I agree. I kiss you!

But having motives for faking a tape shouldn't automatically make it so, wouldn't you agree?
 
2001-12-13 02:34:39 PM  
Well I've been here way, way, way too long... See everyone later, on another thread, in another debate.
 
2001-12-13 02:37:56 PM  
" still not sure why people think torching the Waco nuts was a bad idea." - Perrin

PERRIN, if you truly want an answer to that question rent "Waco:Rules of Engagement" and watch it in its entirety.

------------------------------------------------------------
"Bush would love to get the American people supporting a strike" - Rhynofive

Rhynofive, the American people DO and ARE supporting the strike. Check out the papers, news channels, internet, etc.
------------------------------------------------------------
Goatman264, I believe you are half "devil's advocate" on your mother's side and enjoy taking up the minority side of any argument simply to hear yourself talk. If you question the validity of the newly released Bin Laden tape, do you question the gun-cam footage released by the Pentagon as well? Maybe we aren't even in Afghanistan...can you prove to me different? I didn't think so.

Shrapper
 
2001-12-13 02:37:56 PM  
MojoGobo: Here's another theory: the NA took over Jalalabad and didn't take 2 nanoseconds to check every single videotape in every single private residence for evidence of attacks. Since they were too busy looking for Talibs and pretty much worrying about not getting shot by saboteurs, I would image watching videos was not the first thing on their agenda. So it took a while to find that tape.
 
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