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(CNN) NewsFlash Bin Laden tape released   ( cnn.com) divider line
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7722 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Dec 2001 at 11:10 AM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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443 Comments     (+0 »)
 
 
2001-12-13 11:12:02 AM  
Yea...now we can sit here and talk about how fake it is.
 
2001-12-13 11:12:17 AM  
I'll make some popcorn. Farkistan can have a nation-wide viewing.
 
2001-12-13 11:13:31 AM  
Why would bin laden even let something like that be filmed....duh hello !
 
2001-12-13 11:13:44 AM  
Was Maria Carey in this?? Oh wait, wrong tape ;)
 
2001-12-13 11:13:45 AM  
/me starts scalping tickets to the Farkistan viewing... 5 bucks a head!
 
fb-
2001-12-13 11:14:17 AM  
I just watched it.

If the translation is correct, he is guilty as charged. Much better quality on the tape than I expected.
 
2001-12-13 11:14:34 AM  
I wish they would release a transcript...do not have audio here.
 
2001-12-13 11:14:52 AM  
Just saw that its on ABC... I wonder if Fark beat the major networks with the news?
 
2001-12-13 11:15:25 AM  
uh....we got it from cnn silly
 
2001-12-13 11:15:27 AM  
 
2001-12-13 11:15:31 AM  
Anyone know where you can dled it?
 
2001-12-13 11:15:32 AM  
Dammit...no link to a video clip or streaming video.
 
2001-12-13 11:16:01 AM  
I read yesterday where one of Bin Laden's wives just had his 24th kid! I bet he can not even name all of his wives and kids.
 
fb-
2001-12-13 11:16:04 AM  
Transscript is at

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2001/US/12/13/transcript/binladentape.pdf
 
2001-12-13 11:16:07 AM  
thankyou!! (undflickertail)
 
2001-12-13 11:18:37 AM  
we are already lookin for the guy what diffrence does it make.....lets photoshop some still frames from it for fun though
 
2001-12-13 11:18:41 AM  
I haven't seen a damn thing on this tape yet!
 
2001-12-13 11:19:05 AM  
fake fake fake....

wonder if the gov't will actually get caught this time?
 
2001-12-13 11:19:21 AM  
I just read the transcript - I say nuke the farker. Isolate the base and show them what the inside of a sun is like...
 
fb-
2001-12-13 11:19:30 AM  
This guy couldn't be more farking guilty.
 
2001-12-13 11:19:43 AM  
He is like George Foreman, He just names all of the kids Osama.

I think he gets the power to spawn so many kids from the Pat Robertson Protein shake.
 
2001-12-13 11:19:53 AM  
this will give the U.S. more viable grounds to escalate the war effort, no doubt.
 
2001-12-13 11:20:24 AM  
is he dead yet?
 
2001-12-13 11:20:34 AM  
RockandRoller: "I bet he can not even name all of his wives and kids."

There's a Fark competition in there, somewhere...
 
2001-12-13 11:21:24 AM  
It's photoshopped by the US gov!
 
2001-12-13 11:21:32 AM  
so the background didn't fall over and expose that it was a hollywood soundstage

damn

anyone know of a place that you can download it or stream it?
 
2001-12-13 11:21:55 AM  
What an ugly fark...
 
2001-12-13 11:23:28 AM  
from the transcript - UBL:
He told me a year ago: "I saw in a dream, we were playing a soccer game against the Americans. When our team showed up in the field, they were all pilots!"

...so maybe if he'd dreamt of a baseball or ice hockey match things would've worked out differently. curse America's footballing inability!

(wasn't football against Taliban law, anyway...?)
 
2001-12-13 11:23:34 AM  
I really really really hate that guy.
 
2001-12-13 11:24:32 AM  
Image from the video:
[image from i.cnn.net too old to be available]
 
2001-12-13 11:24:41 AM  
^ sorry, farked up my HTML. the first paragraph's Usama, the other two are me.
 
2001-12-13 11:26:28 AM  
"12-13-01 11:19:05 AM Mikemir
fake fake fake....
wonder if the gov't will actually get caught this time?"

not only do we have people who dont read articles before posting, theres people who comment on things they havent seen. amazing.
 
2001-12-13 11:27:16 AM  
Allah be farked...
 
2001-12-13 11:27:28 AM  
I was an arab linguist (however I have not heard the tape)by reading the transcipt and they way address things, this definately seems real. I do not believe this to be a fake, and juging by his prior actions, this is exactly what usama would do, he is a religious glory-hound.
just my opinion though.
 
2001-12-13 11:28:43 AM  
Who cares if it's real or fake? He's claimed enough responsibility for other attacks ergo still deserves to farking die.
 
2001-12-13 11:29:05 AM  
and stalinism...usama was not taliban.
 
2001-12-13 11:29:10 AM  
not only do we have people who dont read articles before posting, theres people who comment on things they havent seen. amazing.

Feh. That happens all the time here on Fark.
 
2001-12-13 11:30:13 AM  
Do we have everyone's permission to blow his colon right through the roof of his mouth now?
Or do you think we still need to play pattycake with the Arab countries?
 
2001-12-13 11:31:03 AM  
I know it seems obvious, but what a farking jerk. I just wanted to say that.
 
2001-12-13 11:31:12 AM  
Just read the transcript and it seems pretty damning.

Whats the tape quality like?
 
2001-12-13 11:32:00 AM  
Harmonia:

just a bit jittery and shakey, but pretty good. audio is better then expected
 
2001-12-13 11:32:23 AM  
More shots from the video (via Reuters/Yahoo)
[image from us.news2.yimg.com too old to be available]

[image from us.news2.yimg.com too old to be available]
 
2001-12-13 11:32:26 AM  
UBL: (...Inaudible...) we calculated in advance the number of casualties from the enemy, who would be killed based on the position of the tower. We calculated that the floors that would be hit would be three or four floors. I was the most optimistic of them all.
(...Inaudible...) due to my experience in this field, I was thinking that the fire from the gas in the plane would melt the iron structure of the building and collapse the area where the plane hit and all the floors above it only. This is all that we had hoped for.
 
2001-12-13 11:32:58 AM  
hehehe, I have an idea. Lets have a Spec Ops group sneak in a nuke underground into his base and set it off. We could call it an underground test....
 
2001-12-13 11:33:41 AM  
Just read the transcript and it seems pretty damning.

Whats the tape quality like?


Not half bad..

Must not have been an infidel American Camera..probably a Sony..... ;)
 
2001-12-13 11:33:54 AM  
Then we could arrest him for interfering with a US govt operation.. LOL
 
2001-12-13 11:35:17 AM  
it's not a fake.... i work at an international engineering company , and one of the guys on my floor works in arabic countries because he speaks very fluent arabic.. he told me from what he heard and saw of it that the translation was pretty damn accurate....and as far as people saying he wouldn't let himself get taped saying it.. why not.. all movie villians give away their big plot for everyone to see and hear.. why shouldn't this piece of s.hit
 
2001-12-13 11:36:05 AM  
he should have read the top 100 things to do when you become a super villan list
 
2001-12-13 11:36:12 AM  
It does tend to beg the question of why the person filming him (if it was an American) didn't just shoot him there and then.

If not that, then at least where is he now?
 
2001-12-13 11:37:22 AM  
www.eviloverlord.com

heh... he should have taken pointers....
 
2001-12-13 11:38:19 AM  
Goatman: I'm pretty sure bin Laden's buddies won't let an armed person in his home unless he's a jihad guy.
 
2001-12-13 11:38:26 AM  
these guys are real mystical wackos. this tape really underscores the fact that these extremists are living in a Medieval Arab time warp. these guys have prophetic dream advisors like the kings of biblical times!


and what was that bit about americans coming out of their caves?? could that possibly be a metaphor -- or do they really think that we live in cave villages?!


most of these guys have probably never met a non-muslim or traveled outside their immediate area....

they are the middle-eastern equivalent of our rednecks and bible thumpers.
 
2001-12-13 11:38:27 AM  
Blowfish: I agree it probably is authentic, however just to play devil's advocate, don't you think that the government would employ Arab linguists such as yourself to put forward a very believable facsimile of something that would look authentic? Just a thought.
 
2001-12-13 11:38:27 AM  
I don't see what that tape has to do with Osama? The transcript is talking about this "UBL" guy. I think that we should stop looking for Osama and go after UBL!!!!

WHO IS WITH ME!!!!!!
 
2001-12-13 11:38:46 AM  
it it was faked then they put a lot of effort in faking it fake arab background noise fake arab speaking... so it seems pretty legit, and why would they fake someone coughing for a minut
 
2001-12-13 11:39:56 AM  
Tensionfilter: The reason for faking it would be several billion dollars of American military hardware and Dubya's staying in power.
 
2001-12-13 11:40:07 AM  
er first word was if not double it. sorry
 
2001-12-13 11:41:30 AM  
nah nah nah nah
nah nah nah nah
Say ay ay
Good bye
(repeat)
 
2001-12-13 11:41:36 AM  
Tensionfilter I don't believe it is fake but...
why would they fake someone coughing for a minut
For the same reson movies do it, to make it believeable.

again, I don't believe it is fake.
 
2001-12-13 11:41:43 AM  
Drew needs to have age limits or retard limits so we don't get uncomprehensible drivel like that from the TENISIONFILTER posting.
 
2001-12-13 11:41:45 AM  
Does anyone know if Osama speaks english? I have some questions I would like to ask him.


"English MOTHERfarkER!!! Do you speak it?"
 
2001-12-13 11:41:56 AM  
lol - this guy says enough stupid shiat that we dont HAVE to fake anything. We probably have stock footage of this guy that we can just dig out if needed...
 
2001-12-13 11:42:05 AM  
it it was faked then they put a lot of effort in faking it fake arab background noise fake arab speaking... so it seems pretty legit, and why would they fake someone coughing for a minut

And mad props to Industrial Light and Magic for the incredible CGs of binLaden and his Gestap..er.....Bolshe..er.........arsehole crew.....
 
TV
2001-12-13 11:42:43 AM  
speaking strictly on literary merits, i thought that was a damn fine poem. maybe if he channeled some more creative energy into his poetry, he wouldn't be so upset at the USSA all the time.
 
2001-12-13 11:42:51 AM  
Video is real and the audio is faked? Any Arabic lip readers?
 
2001-12-13 11:43:17 AM  
Man, are the conspiracy nuts are going to have fun with this one or what?

Of course, I still think the government shot down flight 93, and made up the heroic people to cover their asses.
 
jph
2001-12-13 11:43:47 AM  

"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. That's the only way to be sure."

-Ellen Ripley,

Aliens (1986)
 
2001-12-13 11:44:37 AM  
3M TA3: me either.
but if they were to make it believable like others who want to believe it was fake why not go the extra step and make UBL or the others guys lips move like those old moving lip cartoons from the past!
 
2001-12-13 11:45:15 AM  
I read the transcription (haven't seen the tape) and why it's certainly damning, I fail to see its relevance. Hadn't the US share its "credible evidence" already with the UK and Pakistan, et al? I don't believe this will change any Arab minds....and didn't the Arab world distance themselves from UBL when he denounced the UN?
 
2001-12-13 11:45:29 AM  
oh my god is this fake....do you people believe everything you are told by CNN!?!?
 
2001-12-13 11:45:45 AM  
I'd pay a least a dollar to see a donkey rape Osama. Anybody else want contribute to the pot?
 
2001-12-13 11:45:46 AM  
Isn't fake. Arabic translators here in the US would be able to tell. And from reading Dapharmer's post above, I'm thinking Osama is Farked.
 
2001-12-13 11:46:09 AM  
Welby: i am sure you never mispelled a word or two once here.
 
2001-12-13 11:46:45 AM  
They should capture him and keep him locked away as an architectural advisor. The dudes who created the WTC towers built them to take a plane hit, but didn't account for the jet fuel, yet Osama apparently did. They just need to put him in a small room and let him plan attacks, then modify those targets against that attack. If he doesn't cooperate, the intratesticular electrocution devices will just have to convince him.
 
2001-12-13 11:47:09 AM  
word, Supahl33t
people seem to way overestimate these guys intelligence level. perhaps ObL has studied abroad, but most of the Taliban have very little education and even that is from extremist islamic schools.
imagine if our country was "governed" by people with 5th grade educations from fundamentalist christian academies!
point it, these guys are NOT evil geniuses. they're power-hungry zealots who wouldn't know what to do with the power even if they got it.
 
2001-12-13 11:47:11 AM  
Y'know, Ben Kingsley was really good as Gandhi, but this performance as Osama [Usama?] leaves me cold.

Rick Baker's make-up job is really good though....

I love Hollywood....
 
2001-12-13 11:47:13 AM  
What's up with the Gilligan hat? This goes deeper than we thought.

[image from us.news2.yimg.com too old to be available]

[image from farrockaway.com too old to be available]
 
2001-12-13 11:47:39 AM  
/me drops a buck into a pot - Lets get the donkeyraping ON!!!!
 
2001-12-13 11:48:03 AM  
Tensionfilter: just givin' you shiat my brother :)
 
2001-12-13 11:48:39 AM  
He's probably amused 'cause he farted.

freakystyley
 
2001-12-13 11:48:48 AM  
For me what gave it away was Scorcese screaming in the background "Look De Niro - you can't do the scowl man - everyone will remember it from Taxi Driver -they'll recognise it" Farking fake in my view - but then like I said it doesn't matter whether it is fake or real. He's still going to get it.
 
2001-12-13 11:49:05 AM  
is it just me, or ObL look like he's put on weight?
 
2001-12-13 11:49:23 AM  
"English MOTHERfarkER!!! Do you speak it?"


Nice ref...,The Marq
 
2001-12-13 11:49:28 AM  
Welby: it's cool, keep on farking :)
 
2001-12-13 11:49:35 AM  
he is farked
 
2001-12-13 11:50:11 AM  
jebus, these guys are all about visions. just like barbara striesand they all had visions of this happening...
 
2001-12-13 11:50:32 AM  
MrTuffPaws:
hahahaha!!
 
2001-12-13 11:51:07 AM  
Sounds like the guy holding the camera is masturbating.

I knew Osama is popular, but really...
 
2001-12-13 11:51:10 AM  
I agree with the Gilligan hat thing. Me thinks Osama is well read up on American pop culture - what with the Evil Bert think and stuff. Also, did anyone catch his Arsenio dog bark in the video. That was rad, although a little dated.
 
2001-12-13 11:51:43 AM  

This has given the U.S. military justification to chase bin Laden into whatever country he is believed to be in. Whether it's fake or not is irrelevant.


My prediction:

1) They'll announce bin Laden is definitely not in Afghanistan.

2) News will "leak out" that bin Laden was spotted in Iraq

3) U.S. & its allies will attack Iraq & its allies

 
2001-12-13 11:52:53 AM  
It's not fake. Period. Watch
it on TV before you make a
judgement.
And I'm sure CNN and FoxNews
and MSNBC will have analysts
assure us of this ad nauseum
this evening. Stay tuned.
 
2001-12-13 11:53:01 AM  
3M TA3: "For the same reson(sic) movies do it, to make it believeable."

I defy you to name me one movie where an individual coughs as anything other than a means of conveying that that person is sick, or as a dramatic device.
(cough)bullshiat(cough)
 
2001-12-13 11:53:12 AM  
ObL has lots of money. Couldn't he buy the camera guy a tri-pod?
 
2001-12-13 11:53:20 AM  
Yeah these talks of visions make me wonder how much drugs they've been doing in those poppy fields
 
2001-12-13 11:53:30 AM  
Havent read the thread yet, but did anyone else notice the line in the transcript about the "downed US helicopter in Afghanistan" -- I thought the US denied any helicopter crash in Afghanistan. The only one they admitted to was the one in Pakistan.
 
2001-12-13 11:54:15 AM  
I have talked to a couple of people I know that speak fluent Arabic, and they say the translation is correct. I will believe them until someone tells me otherwise.
 
2001-12-13 11:54:39 AM  
Mojogobo, listen to the background noise in any movie. It is there. Much better audio quality, but it is there.
 
2001-12-13 11:55:51 AM  
Oh, ok, we're talking background. I'm with you.

I think it's fake. The copy of Juggs magazine in the background is a dead giveaway.
 
2001-12-13 11:56:20 AM  
I sincerely doubt it's fake. When you give out stuff at this level, it simply can't be faked.

Because if it is, people will find out. And then people will get pissed. And then people will die.

I'm interested in seeing that video now. The transcript is damning as all hell. I wonder if he's praising Allah so much now that he's been reduced to a single fortress?

The thing that amuses me is one of the prophecies mentioned in the transcript. "There will be a great hit and people will go out by hundreds to Afghanistan."

Well, veni vidi vicci motherfarker.
 
2001-12-13 11:56:23 AM  
I just finished watching the tape. All I can say is "Coo-Coo! Coo-Coo!" This dude is a farking nut job. I always thought he was crazy but he is way way out there! I feel so bad for the people who follow him to his death... ok maybe I don't feel bad for them.... ok maybe I hope they have a horrible slow death.
 
2001-12-13 11:56:34 AM  
The people on the tape make at least 50 references to some person called "Allah", who seems to be held in even higher respect then Bin Laden. In fact, it almost seems that Bin Laden is getting his orders from "Allah".
Shouldn't we be going after this "Allah" bloke instead?
 
2001-12-13 11:56:52 AM  
Phxtony
Havent read the thread yet, but did anyone else notice the line in the transcript about the "downed US helicopter in Afghanistan" -- I thought the US denied any helicopter crash in Afghanistan. The only one they admitted to was the one in Pakistan.


Wel...I do not know if this is the one they are speaking of, but we had one go down in the north, and the bombed it to get rid of the evidence. Remember the rescue mission in late october?
 
2001-12-13 11:57:19 AM  
Phxtony: im wondering if that was part of the debate on releasing it completely and translated properly, showing the footage of the helicoptor. that must've played a role in the delay.
 
2001-12-13 11:57:52 AM  
great prediction gandalf
thats exactly what is going to happen...farking government!
 
2001-12-13 11:58:08 AM  
The sad part is that, for those who are predisposed to believe this tape is fake, nothing will convince them otherwise.

Believable arabic phrasing and accents? They got linguistic consultants. Obvious fake.
Odd phrasing and accents? Fake.

Bad tape quality and shot out of sequence? A ham-handed attempt to make it look real. Obvious fake.
Good quality and continuity? No real tape would be of such high quality. Fake.

Suck on that, Trebek
 
2001-12-13 11:58:09 AM  
Welby : Make it a horse or a camel raping him, and you can count on my donation. It'd hurt a lot more.
 
2001-12-13 11:58:14 AM  
damn, toyota is not gonna sell much car after this tape is released.
 
2001-12-13 11:58:23 AM  
What the hell is with that one part where UBL says something to the effect of "the number of people who accepted Islam during the days that followed the operations (the WTC and Pentagon attacks) were more than the people who accepted Islam in the last 11 years"? In HOLLAND of all places! This guy is totally fvcking nuts....not just because of his error in geography (it's THE NETHERLANDS. Not Holland!) but he is so fanatical in his beliefs he thinks Islam is getting good PR! Hahahahahahahahahaa! fool.
 
2001-12-13 11:58:51 AM  
BASTARDS!

One remark to everyone who wants to drop a nuke down his rabbit hole: once that was done we'd have no idea who was killed in the blast, because, like the victims of the WTC, they'd all be vaporized. One things for sure, when we finally get the bastard, we need to know that we got him.
 
2001-12-13 11:59:19 AM  
I thought the crashed helicopter never happened, isnt taht what was said at the time?
 
2001-12-13 11:59:31 AM  
Quick1:

I only know one arabic speaker, they said it was a bit peculiar at times. Who can say. I think it is probably not targeted at us anyway (we here all think he did it) but for anyone who is not currently behind the US. It's release (whether real or not) is designed to generate support for whatever military action is next on the Dubya Bush middle east tour.
 
2001-12-13 12:00:02 PM  
I think the audio is faked... maybe bcouse of crapy realaudio format better wait to see it on TV, but it looks fakid to me. But that doesn't matter a shiat couse taliban and al-qaeda terrorists already where a bunch of horsafakas before the 11 sept. so fark em all.
 
2001-12-13 12:00:23 PM  
good point, Gandalf
 
2001-12-13 12:00:37 PM  
Ya GandalfTheWhite is right. Then they'll find him here in Canada just so the US can Annex us.
 
2001-12-13 12:02:02 PM  
okay, scratch the donkey raping since we only got two dollars in the pot and thats probably not enough to get a donkey and Osama. But lets take Sethor's suggestion and get a camel instead to increase interest -- I'll put five dollars in now! Camelraping! Yeah baby.
 
2001-12-13 12:02:33 PM  
Dear lord, please let them say he's in France...
 
2001-12-13 12:02:36 PM  
welby: i see your 5 and raise it 15
 
2001-12-13 12:03:08 PM  
how bout one of those kamikaze camels!
 
2001-12-13 12:04:08 PM  
I'll drop in a hundred if you can get an elephant to rape him....
 
Mon
2001-12-13 12:04:44 PM  
I'm not saying its fake but.. from the portion I saw on cnn.com its really hard to hear anything with all the background noise.. and the lips would be hard to read cause its fuzzy (or was that both media player and real player's crappy stream at a 156k connect?) .. did they try to clean it up? or were they concerned about appearing to doctor the tape? either way.. damn.. those translaters must have some good ears.
 
2001-12-13 12:05:22 PM  
If your first instinct is to disbelieve anything the US government puts out, but you'd rather believe the Taliban's claims of massive civilian casualties, etc, then maybe you need an introduction to my clue-by-four.
 
2001-12-13 12:05:57 PM  
I'm good for however much it will cost to get Ouchy the Clown to go to town on him.
 
2001-12-13 12:06:06 PM  
Pulled this off of NBC dated nov 2:


Posted by Barbara (64.77.161.17) on November 02, 2001 at 15:42:11:

from bad weather and another copter got the troops from the one that went down.
THANK YOU GOD!!! They are in the process of calling in an airstrike on the one that went
down, so taliban can't get it.


So yes, we did have a helicopter downed in afganistan.
 
2001-12-13 12:06:10 PM  
I know, leak the information that he's in Gaza. Nuke the area and solve 2 problems at once.
 
2001-12-13 12:06:20 PM  
I believe the tape is fake, and so does my wife!
 
2001-12-13 12:06:26 PM  
...Tie him up with one good female dominatrix for a couple of days...
 
2001-12-13 12:07:14 PM  
I'm not saying its fake but.. from the portion I saw on cnn.com its really hard to hear anything with all the background noise.. and the lips would be hard to read cause its fuzzy

Just watched it on CNN myself. Looked real to me.
 
2001-12-13 12:07:58 PM  
even another resource:

http://www.thewbalchannel.com/wtc/1039209/detail.html
 
2001-12-13 12:09:00 PM  
are you even married goatman??? scary thought brother..lol (j/k)
 
2001-12-13 12:11:05 PM  
he is married to Goatwoman Blowfish!
 
2001-12-13 12:11:43 PM  
How Ironic a name is "Goatwoman Blowfish"?
 
2001-12-13 12:12:51 PM  
Blowfish/Skwidd (Esp) Skwidd: I'm not married. It was indeed, as Blowfish realised, a joke. Not necessarily in the humourous way, but a play on ideas - referencing a Monty Python film for the sake of mental relief. No need to get too uptight when masturbating over Osama, dude.
 
2001-12-13 12:13:21 PM  
I think Goatman is actually Goatse man.
 
2001-12-13 12:13:27 PM  
Mojo,

WTF are you talking about? You read like a 2 year old trying to string together sentences.
 
2001-12-13 12:14:12 PM  
good thing his wife name wasn't GoodWoman, eh woody?
Goowoamn Blifish woody...HA!!
 
nez
2001-12-13 12:15:03 PM  
*sigh*

People who want to believe this tape is real will believe it's real, and those who can't, won't.

Another day about to be wasted on Fark.

*sigh*
 
2001-12-13 12:15:37 PM  
It is better than Womanfish Blowagoat.
 
2001-12-13 12:15:46 PM  
Wow - UBL seems almost as ignorant and heartless as smirky
 
2001-12-13 12:16:46 PM  
Disasterbator
imagine if our country was "governed" by people with 5th grade educations from fundamentalist christian academies!


Imagine if it was run by a bunch of super liberals tramping on people's rights. Wait, it was until the both of them got booted.
 
2001-12-13 12:17:23 PM  
Fumanshu, the Netherlands IS you idiot!
 
2001-12-13 12:18:02 PM  
I hate bin laden's guts, but i definitely DON'T want to nuke him. You know why? WORLD WAR 3! there's a little thing called the ABM treaty. Basically, u nuke us, we/our allies will nuke u back, shiat like that. if we nuke them, we might not get nuked, but... in the global community, there would be a HUGE backlash from the major powers (who have nukes by the way). Nuking would be a fuc/king bad idea (i put the slash in there so the filter doesnt catch it). Just bomb the living fuc/k out of him with conventional bombs. Just bomb him day and night, just bomb it till its just a huge crater (not with nukes).
 
2001-12-13 12:18:05 PM  
I think in honor of the video release there should be a photoshop. Dedicated to Osama, one of the biggest jackasses in the world. Yeah hes as cool as those 14yo who recorded their crimes and then talk about em later. Can't plea the fifth with that one...JACKASS!
 
2001-12-13 12:18:11 PM  
OK... so all of his followers were having RELIGIOUS VISIONS about this? Soccer? Pilots? Allah, Allah, Allah (ad nauseum, ad infinitum)?

Barbra Streisand?!

If I was alone in a room with this guy, with a car battery, a pair of jumper cables, a blowtorch... I swear I'd lose all humanity. In RL, I'm a totally fair, upstanding guy. People are surprised even when I tell them that I enjoy B-movies because I'm so straight-laced, for crying out loud. But never in my life have I even imagined I'd feel this way about someone. This sickens me. For the good of the world, this guy has to pay.

I hope we "accidentally" drop a bomb on his 90 wives and 600 kids. But then, we'd breed more of his ilk.

DAMN. The world sucks. Hitler = OBL
 
Mon
2001-12-13 12:18:37 PM  
uhm Gimli.. what do you think Ashcroft has been doing with the bill of rights?
 
2001-12-13 12:19:14 PM  
Arschloch:Ummm...what? It's a joke about Goatse man. You never seen goatse man? Ask around, he'd be glad to meet you.
 
2001-12-13 12:19:27 PM  
I'm going to have to add "Goatwoman Blowfish" to my list of potential band names. Especially for a female alt/punk band.

Personal favorite: Meatlab. From MTLB, a Soviet-era Russian troop carrier.

As for Osama, no death is too quick.
 
Mon
2001-12-13 12:19:47 PM  
oh and motherfarker.. about an hour ago front page cnn.com had the article 'us to pull out of ABM treaty'
its offical.. in six months its gone.
 
2001-12-13 12:20:10 PM  
oops, the NETHERLANDS IS HOLLAND....i meant to say..
 
2001-12-13 12:20:14 PM  
thats not very economical MotherFarker. But either way i think there should be a nice big crater with lots of dead bodies (terrorists of course, but everyone knows there will be collateral damage).
 
Mon
2001-12-13 12:20:33 PM  
oops i meant U.S. - before anyone flames me for being a bad speller :P
 
nez
2001-12-13 12:20:33 PM  
MotherFarker: Haven't you heard? Bush is breaking from the treaty.
 
nez
2001-12-13 12:21:10 PM  
No, the Netherlands is a region in the country of Holland.
 
2001-12-13 12:21:31 PM  
Do they have to praise Allah in EVERY FARKING SENTENCE?

What a bunch of ass-kissers...
 
2001-12-13 12:22:05 PM  
The ABM is "supposed" to be kept for the next 6 months...
 
2001-12-13 12:23:02 PM  
word, Mon
it doesn't take a liberal to tramp on people's rights
 
2001-12-13 12:23:48 PM  
Why was the release of the tape now? It seems that this tape has been in existance for weeks. ah well.

Osama, according to the tape, has said many an incriminating thing. He doesnt directly say "yeah i told those guys to hijack planes and crash them into the wtc towers" but hey, we have to make assumptions right.
 
Mon
2001-12-13 12:24:01 PM  
the quitting of ABM link is http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/12/13/rec.bush.abm/index.html if anyone is interested.
 
lbo
2001-12-13 12:24:16 PM  
For those of you who say that this tape is fake, what reason do you have for believing this?

because it came from the US Government?
 
Kas
2001-12-13 12:26:43 PM  
anybody have it on a mirror? work firewall not letting me get it from cnn. that or it's farked.
 
2001-12-13 12:27:18 PM  
Thanks for sorting out the confusing about Holland. For a second there I had this twilight zoney feeling that I was here, but really wasn't, or maybe at least. Then I continued masturbating frantically, but that's irrelevant.
 
2001-12-13 12:27:40 PM  
Sigh...I was skepitcal as anyone else when the tape was announced, but I also didn't know they would release it so soon.

If you ask me, it's a huge, HUGE risk for the American government to put anything that is not genuine into the public limelight. It's just too much. I don't care how confident they are of their abilities, if the shiat hit the fan, the US governent would have some serious 'splainin' to do... and risking Civil War or even just completely losing international authority would weigh heavily on the creators' minds. I trust it as real.

How sad it is that the only two groups of people left in the world willing to actually get up, take a stand, and fight for what they believe in are doing it against the other...while constantly being henpecked by non-resolute pricks with no sense of empathy for anything. Even worse that one of those groups takes time to make sure those pricks know that they are listening.

People of the world, you have three valid choices; any other opinion is simply vacuous rhetoric:

1.)Believe what the US is doing is right, and support it in whatever ways you can, being mindful to question if necessary.

2.)Believe what the terrorists are doing is right, and support it in whatever ways you can, etc.

3.)Believe something else, and actually go out and do whatever you can to realize it. And prepare to face the consequences, if it involves sabotage of US government technology (*wink* Rei *wink*).
 
2001-12-13 12:27:56 PM  
I think I probably could have handled the video and all that he said if they hadn't been laughing and smiling about the whole thing. "No, NO! The muslims were NOT cheering. That's all lies." Uh huh. What do you call that? To those who lost loved ones in the attacks, this video must have rubbed salt into the wounds. Can you imagine people laughing and praising god that your father had died?
 
2001-12-13 12:28:27 PM  
Disasterbator
imagine if our country was "governed" by people with 5th grade educations from fundamentalist christian academies!

It is. How else would one describe Dubya (ok, clearly for Dubya you'd have to add in drug-addict/coke-snorter)
 
2001-12-13 12:28:40 PM  
Woody TX,
What you're saying about no death being too quick for pond scum like Osama, that is completely wrong.

A quick death would be merciful. I'm not feeling very merciful today. So capture him and then beat the living fuc/k out of him. but don't let him die just yet... oh no no no... stitch him up, the n do it over and over and over again. Or make him eat his own shiat until he dies from food poisoning. Or we could torture him by electrocuting him by wrapping a copper wire around his nutsack then sticking it in an outlet but NOt a lethal dosage so we can do it over and over and over. Or we could do all three for several years or decades. NOT something quick, like a bullet in them head. A quick death is too good for him. He doesn't deserve the luxury of a quick death.
 
2001-12-13 12:29:29 PM  
So to summarise our choice is

1) agree with whatever the USA does
2) Join Ben Laden

Sorry I dont accept that choice.
 
2001-12-13 12:30:21 PM  
Hey pips,
Do you think the next one is Somalia or Iraq?
I bet for Somalia.
 
2001-12-13 12:31:30 PM  
The designer and the buidlers DID know what would happen to TWC if a fully fueled plane hit one of the towers. The towers were built to withstand the impact but the asbestos scare changed the fire retardency to something lesser and the buildings were only designed to stand for about 4 hours in the event of a catastrophic fire and that that would be time enough to get all the survivers out. What was not expected was that it would be done deliberately. The thoughts were any plane hitting TWC would be arriving with little fuel on board, not 2 that had just taken off with full tanks.

I have no idea if the US govt made a fake but I believe it would if it suited the Fed's purpose to make one. With Hollywood's technology and computer animation, anything can be done. Note "The Matrix". Using simple scanning of a person's existing profile (film, photos, whatever) as a base and computers, an entire movie could be made that was indistinguishable from reality. There's no real way to tell the difference between real and fake and with something like this is even easier because people WANT to believe (see topic about psychics).
 
2001-12-13 12:32:05 PM  
Dear peacenik farkwads,

We told you so.

That is all.
 
2001-12-13 12:34:11 PM  
In other news, it's official: Noam Choamsky is a farking moron.
 
2001-12-13 12:34:24 PM  
Dude.. what did you tell the peaceniks, you big bad man?
 
2001-12-13 12:34:46 PM  
NEZ and Fumanshu

"No, the Netherlands is a region in the country of Holland"
.....oh my god you are a farking moron!!!

And America is a region in the US?!?
Dumbass....
 
2001-12-13 12:35:14 PM  
im kind of upset.
i wanted loud arabic music and belly dancers.

:(
 
2001-12-13 12:36:03 PM  
Goatman:

I picked up the Life of Brian reference and pissed myself laughing.
 
2001-12-13 12:36:12 PM  
Personally I wold giev up all the money and possessions I have just to watch Ouchy the Clown nail this guy..

Harmonia - What choices would you prefer? Getting nuked?
 
2001-12-13 12:36:56 PM  
I think it'll be Somalia, too... especially if all the chicks there look like Iman. Pretty.
 
2001-12-13 12:37:15 PM  
Wow it took less than 90 minutes for the Bush bashing to begin. I'm shocked. </sarcasm>

Anywho, after watching the film, I'm convinced. Bush has also pulled the US out of the ABM treaty today and prepare for the analysis to be on the cable news channels ad nauseum.
 
2001-12-13 12:37:48 PM  
Does anyone have a mirror or annother site that I can get teh released clip from having problems getting it downloaded I suspect it is due to high demand
 
2001-12-13 12:38:09 PM  
"Kneel, son of Jor-el! Kneel before Ouchy!"
 
nez
2001-12-13 12:38:23 PM  
MilkIt: Get an atlas you moron and prove me wrong.
 
2001-12-13 12:39:16 PM  
Vman: try msnbc, abcnews, etc etc
 
2001-12-13 12:40:26 PM  
We could also throw bin laden in jail with a gay BIG guy named Bubba, and Bubba makes bin laden his he-biatch.

Bubba: osamie, you dropped your soap.

Osama: no, i didn't.

Bubba: Yeah you did. (knocks the soap out of osama's hand). Now pick it up.

Osama: no, please, dear allah, no.

Bubba: yeah buddy, yeah. Oooh, yeah.

Osama: DEAR GOD NO! NOT AGAIN!!! OW!! AUGH!!! NOOOOOOO! WHY ALLAH WHY!?!!?!?!?!?!
 
2001-12-13 12:40:26 PM  
"Who's yo daddy? You know who yo daddy is Osama? Its me! Ouchy! Know why? Cause I did this to yo MAMA! Yeah, Osama's Mama!"

Anyone know where thats based off of?
 
2001-12-13 12:41:14 PM  
'damn whiteboy'
'my man would stick his dick in a he-monkey'
 
2001-12-13 12:41:15 PM  
Oh, and for those of you who think this might be a fake, I'd say, wait a couple of days. If even ONE reputable news organization has their video guys and linguists go over it and say: 'This is a fake', then I might listen.

But the Bush administration has far too much to lose in this situation to create a fake. This conspiracy bullshiat has gotten way out of hand, and people have gone crazy. I'm not a bush fan myself, but c'mon.. after JFK got shot, this country went farking insane with the conspiracy stuff. Dumb.
 
nez
2001-12-13 12:43:38 PM  
Gumbo: So you would trust a media company to actually do some investigating? And find the truth? And then report the story?
 
2001-12-13 12:45:15 PM  
[image from lonecrow.20m.com too old to be available]
 
2001-12-13 12:45:28 PM  
Conspiracy! I say conspiracy!!
Now let's invade Somalia ok?
 
2001-12-13 12:46:08 PM  
Nez: of course. Because if someone can find *proof* that it's a fake, it would literally be the biggest news story of the decade.. probably bigger than 9/11 itself. No news organization is going to let that go without checking digital and editing manipulation. There's too much money at stake..

Reporters can be assholes, but you can trust them to blow the whistle on a fake tape. Whoever could do it would be the instant God of American journalism.
 
2001-12-13 12:46:10 PM  
I have no idea if the US govt made a fake but I believe it would if it suited the Fed's purpose to make one. With Hollywood's technology and computer animation, anything can be done. Note "The Matrix". Using simple scanning of a person's existing profile (film, photos, whatever) as a base and computers, an entire movie could be made that was indistinguishable from reality. There's no real way to tell the difference between real and fake and with something like this is even easier because people WANT to believe (see topic about psychics).

That's just insipid. It takes months and months of serious hard work to do that kind of shiat, and it still would never pass for reality. Did you not SEE the matrix, or jurassic park, or Titanic? The best fake computer stuff in in the world still looks like fake computer stuff even to the naked eye.
 
2001-12-13 12:46:13 PM  
Anybody else notice the line near the end, "the american people were afraid it was a coup"(or something to that extent)?

I think that should show everyone how truly ludicrous it is to say that we should "address the root causes of terrorism". He comes from a completely different world, one in which military coups are a fact of life, as is repressive government, violence, and hatred. Sympathizers seem to think that terrorists think the same way we do, but they don't.

We Americans, and other Westerners (as well as all yall Aussies and everyone else in civilized countries) don't realize how great we really have it. I hear so much biatching about how the American government is pulling the wool over eyes, doing horrible things, etc etc. This is a government that has been more or less stable for over two hundred years! A military coup in America is incomprehensible!!!! We have infinite more freedoms than the typical Pakistani. Simply put, no government is perfect, but our corporate republic is vastly superior to any tyrrany or monarchy.

We cannot deal with terrorists or their ilk on the terms with which we deal with one another. They are not like us. We are more educated, more liberal, and we know what it is like to live in a free society. They don't. Their world is built on hatred, fear, prejudice, and naivete. The chaos in Afghanistan is not a "humanitarian crisis" to them, it is life. They have no clue how truly great it is to live in a democratic society.

As such, dealing with them like equals, like people who think the way we do and thus act the way we would act, and therefore must have legitimate beefs, is foolish. They do not think the way we do. Their hatred of our society is not based on our morals, it is based on their morals. They are relics of the past, raised in a land stuck in the past, who don't know how great it can be.
 
2001-12-13 12:46:50 PM  
so fake...has anybody noticed how Bin laden looks fat in the first part - when the audio is really bad - and then magically loses 15 pounds or so in the second part......well they found a tape but they "added" a more dramatic scene with the "fat" Bin laden double confessing.....
 
2001-12-13 12:48:10 PM  
MotherFarker: Nice! Another variation for ya.

OBL is sent to prison, and he's put into a cell with Bubba. Bubba says, "So, we's gonna be here in prison a LONG time." OBL says, "Uh.... yes. Allah, be merciful." Bubba says, "And we's gonna get pretty lonely in this cell all by ourselves, huh?" OBL says, "Yes." Bubba says, "So I guess we have to be husband and wife, then. What do you wanna be... the husband or the wife?"

OBL's heart sings a little and he says "Praise Allah!! I will be the husband." Then Bubba says "OK, den. Get over here and suck yo' wife's CACK!"
 
2001-12-13 12:48:21 PM  
GumboPants: Even if it had "FAKE" written across it in big leeters,

a) People like Fb- and his ilk would still swallow it.
b) Bush n' co would still push it as real
c) Media trying to say it was fake would be quashed/spun
d) The bombing would go on whatever.
 
2001-12-13 12:48:43 PM  
I say if we ever get bin Laden alive, we should release him. That's right, set him completely free. Right in the middle of Times Square. And declare it "Whacking Day".
 
2001-12-13 12:49:22 PM  
Are you kidding me? There's no reason to doubt the legitimacy of this tape!

When George W. gets home, there's gonna be another floor on his house.
 
2001-12-13 12:49:24 PM  
I read the transcript, and allthough Osama bin Laden seems happy with the results, I fail to see anything indicating he actually planned the attacks.

Also I wonder where all the real, hard, undeniable, unrefutable, etc, etc, etc evidence went the USA claimed to have before they attacked Afghanistan. Suddenly a videotape with a small bit of gloating is considered the most important piece of evidence. In a real court something like this videotape would not be enough to have someone convicted.

I think it's very unwise of the US to act like this, lie about having evidence and then somehow forgetting to ever mention it again, hoping people will have forgotten about it a few weeks later. Now if the US says they have proof another country is involved with terrorists, they have to act on their own or show the world real evidence, as much less countries will trust the US now.
 
nez
2001-12-13 12:49:31 PM  
Gumbo: I'm so sure the govt would allow that to happen.
 
2001-12-13 12:51:30 PM  
TimmyJimmy:

There are almost no terrorist 'sympathizers' in America. When people mean address the root causes, they mean addressing the peace process in Isreal, and basically being less mercenary and less of an asshole to the Middle Eastern countries and being more of a (guarded) partner.

There are a total of 3 people in the country (all in Berkley) who actually mean 'just being nicer to the terrorists'.

But don't denigrate a very good argument by representing it as something no one believes.
 
2001-12-13 12:51:40 PM  
Popken - try reading the news about the other evidence. This is only very recently obtained evidence. The rest has to be kept secret to protect intelligence sources.
 
2001-12-13 12:52:17 PM  
Harmonia, I know where you are heading with this, and I'll try to stop it now.

The final choice is where you come in. I doubt many people from the Western Hemisphere would choose Choice 2, so I left you an out with Choice 3. It isn't groundbreaking, it simply says that if you believe otherwise, your opinion is only valid if you try to realize it. While I can honestly admit that Rei talking about sabotaging US equipment (NOT in this thread) so that she can impose her opinion on others inflames me to no end, I would have to at least commend her slightly if she actually doing it. To simply sit their in your seat and tell someone they are wrong without offering a conceivable and viable alternative isn't helping to change the situation that we all detest into something better(of course, your definition of "conceivable and viable" probably differs from mine).

Basically, I am just chastizing inactivity. If you have an opinion, don't go to extremes by declaring it universally right and then sit and do nothing to realize it...

Of course, that kind of reasoning is what started this whole thing anyway...sigh, I hate the world these days.
 
2001-12-13 12:52:41 PM  
Nez: you think they control the press?! What leads you to believe that?
 
2001-12-13 12:52:43 PM  
Goatman: who cares if it is fake? i don't. i suppose it gives you a warm fuzzy.
 
2001-12-13 12:52:46 PM  
Harmonia, please move to a muslim country like Pakistan or Iran. You would most certainly be happy there. Maybe over the years the shiat would flow off your eyes and you would see into what shiathole you have just wasted your life. It's very easy to be critical from the comforts of one's own western home with western freedoms.
 
2001-12-13 12:54:11 PM  
Popken

UBL: The brothers, who conducted the operation, all they knew was that they have a
martyrdom operation and we asked each of them to go to America but they didnt know
anything about the operation, not even one letter. But they were trained and we did not
reveal the operation to them until they are there and just before they boarded the planes.


The use of "We" in the above does not indicate that he was behind it??? WTF??
 
2001-12-13 12:55:22 PM  
yeah, TimmyJimmy this tape shows just how out of touch with the West these guys are. their public statements tend to give us a chuckle rather than the intended effect because they make is so obvious how little they understand us.

what was that quote: "we love death, the way you love life" - spoken as if it would instill fear and respect for the terrorists in us! bit of a cultural miscalculation that just makes us think they're scary and weird. in the gulf war the iraqi's were deploying some truly sophisticated psyops: radio broadcasts telling American troops that their girlfriends were at home being farked by Bart Simpson! Hilarious!

certainly, the interesting points to be made about this tape are not found the 'it's a fake' threads....
 
2001-12-13 12:55:51 PM  
Maybe we should try talking about things.
 
2001-12-13 12:56:07 PM  
Funkyfingerproductions: Your attitude is similar to that of Bush and co - I didn't say it was fake, I hypothosised such, and commented upon that hypothesis for fark's sake. Don't be so quick to condemn me, however fashionable it may be.
 
2001-12-13 12:57:13 PM  
Hello
 
2001-12-13 12:57:49 PM  
The official name, according to my CIA factbook, is Koninkrijk der Nederlanden -- translated as Kingdom of the Netherlands.

Two of the provinces in the Netherlands are Noord-Holland and Zuid-Holland.

CIA Fact Book on Holland

Or if you are paranoid enough to believe that since the CIA said it, it must be wrong, try the official website of the Dutch monarchy:

Dutch royal family website

"Het Koninkrijk der Nederlanden is een constitutionele monarchie:"

S.T.Pickrell
 
2001-12-13 12:59:45 PM  
MrGumboPants:

I don't mean "nicer to the terrorists" as such, I mean rather that people who do look at those root causes react to them the way that they would if they were happening in a free, democratic country. If that doesn't come across right please forgive me, as I haven't put my thoughts about all this into words in a long time.
 
2001-12-13 01:00:37 PM  
It's not fake. Anyone with any experience in the field of computer graphics, animation, or visual effects would pin it as being fake if they used CG or any Hollywood tricks. Hollywood isn't perfect you know, the look of stuff is close enough for the masses, but anyone who knows what the hell they're talking about can distinguish between what's real and what's not when it comes to Hollywood magic.
 
2001-12-13 01:01:08 PM  
Whoops I meant CIA factbook on the Netherlands.

However in the American English vernacular Holland and the Netherlands are used interchangeably.

Shawn
 
nez
2001-12-13 01:01:21 PM  
Gumbo: Oh. You haven't heard. I'm Fark's resident tinfoil hat wearing psycho - at least that's what anyone disagreeing with me would tell you...

See, I believe that the government had knowledge of the attacks, and either assisted with or was complacent to them. I'm sure Skwidd will fill you in on my "crazy" ranting about the big bad politicians.
 
2001-12-13 01:01:21 PM  
Cyc66: hi
 
2001-12-13 01:01:47 PM  
here ya go NEZhttp://www.lonelyplanet.com/mapshells/europe/netherlands/netherla​nds.h​tm

http://www.orc.ru/~kysa/nl_map_e.htm

http://terrassa.pnl.gov:2080/fac/netherlands/map.html

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/nl.html


oh yeah, the video is farking fake and you are all brainwashed monkeys!!
 
2001-12-13 01:02:00 PM  
Skwidd: What a delightful image you have of me! Have you ever tried reading my posts? They give an even better idea of what I'm like!
 
2001-12-13 01:02:14 PM  
I think most of the people who are saying the tape is a fake are being sarcastic.

Shawn
 
2001-12-13 01:03:04 PM  

I'm witholding judgement of the tape's authenticity until I see it (well, I probably should until I see it with a speaker of Arabic). Like MrTuffPaws, I, too, believe that UAL93 was shot down and the heroes came from the fertile imaginations of TV network minions at the behest of their bought leaders. I'm mistrustful of what comes from CNN, MSNBC and other major news channels due to their having interests and influences similar to those of our campaign-finance-influenced leaders. It seems an awful lot like a back-scratching affair to me, here.


In this vein, I would say to Asthmaticenemyofgod, this isn't 1974, and the news ventures aren't run by people with some kind of closely held ideals or journalistic integrity, just customer profiling and shareholder value (for better or for worse). I would hazard a guess that if this *were* faked, the only people who would rant about it would be fringe left-wing publications and libertarian wingnuts. They have been crying foul at this government pre-September 11, and have gotten no reaction from media outlets. They're not feared by the US Government, and are largely ignored by the populace taking their media spoonfeeding.


It's not in the interests of Murdoch, Turner et al. (or the Justice Department, etc. etc.) to smear Bush at this point. He's going to bat for them whenever they want him to. I imagine that everyone involved with this administration will walk away with bulging pockets after they fill out the other term.


Remember well: The US Gov't was able to blow up that weirdo house in Waco on video and get away with it with minimal damage. Ok, some people made noise, and the ATF has been quiet for a while, but really: what consequences? The media helps our already short memories with very little coverage of issues with little recency (Mr. Condit, would you stand up, please?). If it were faked, all they would have to do is not talk about it (hey, USA, here's Britney Spears in a skimpy bikini with a flag on it!). To smear a declared enemy with some faked footage isn't exactly a burglary at the DNC headquarters, it doesn't implicate Americans against Americans. No biggie.

 
2001-12-13 01:03:34 PM  
Goatfarker: You just come across as wanting the tape to be fake...to fulfill some sort of emotional need. Also, you refuse to exercise any semblance of critical thinking, so I shall write your words off with poo.
 
2001-12-13 01:04:32 PM  
I'm going to quote this so that everyone reads it again:

"It's not fake. Anyone with any experience in the field of computer graphics, animation, or visual effects would pin it as being fake if they used CG or any Hollywood tricks."

It simply isn't possible to fool all the experts in such a high profile case. Give it a couple of days and let all the video dudes have a look at it, and if it's fake, there will be a huge groundswell of accusations. If it's real, there will be a couple of accusations that can't be backed up, and you've got to assume it's real.
 
2001-12-13 01:05:14 PM  
Funkyfingerprints: Learn to differentiate between hypothesising and political leaning.

My seeming to want the tapes to be fake could easily be seen as an actual indication of your desire as opposed to mine.
 
2001-12-13 01:05:15 PM  
i'm not being sarcastic at all when i say it is fake....read 1984!!
 
2001-12-13 01:05:21 PM  
Skwidd, the mass media is not leftist, no matter what you think. There is no such thing as a real liberal mass media anymore-- Now they are just NEOliberals willing to throw aside their beliefs just so they can help their hypocritical politician friends get elected with the millions and millions of corporate dollars flowing into the campaigns.
 
2001-12-13 01:05:57 PM  
Peanutnm: But what about the black UN helicopters?
 
2001-12-13 01:06:58 PM  
MrGumboPants: Goatman told me they made it poor quality to cover up all the CG, seeing as how this is such an effective propaganda tool...

/rollseyes
 
2001-12-13 01:07:05 PM  
Skwidd: I'm only complex to those without a concentration span of over a minute.
 
2001-12-13 01:07:13 PM  
Skwidd: I'm only complex to those without a concentration span of over a minute.
 
2001-12-13 01:07:41 PM  
"12-13-01 01:01:21 PM Nez
Gumbo: Oh. You haven't heard. I'm Fark's resident tinfoil hat wearing psycho - at least that's what anyone disagreeing with me would tell you..."

Nez, your shrill comments and your rude treatment of those who dare to disagree with you tend to lead to that assessment. Unlike Rei, Harmonia and even the Goat, your posts at no point sit down and make me think, "Hmm, they may have a point."

"See, I believe that the government had knowledge of the attacks, and either assisted with or was complacent to them."

Have knowledge? That is a distinct possibility. Whether incompetence at the middle levels of CIA-FBI bureaucracy or an ulterior motive at the highest levels can be open to debate. I personally favour the former myself.

Assisted with or was complacent to them? Those are serious accusations, and if you care to have anyone take you seriously, as opposed to regarding you as anything other than conspiracy nut, you should provide a little bit of evidence.

Oh yeah, and Clinton had several people killed in Arkansas too.

Freedom of speech does not imply freedom from criticism.

S.T.Pickrell
 
2001-12-13 01:07:42 PM  
I can't believe how many idiots are out there today, Its Fake Its Fake. You are probably the same people that believe that Britney Spears actually sings at her concerts. That or you are watching the Video on the shiatiest of computers and internet connection. Think about this. The Gov released this video with intentions of convincing the Muslims that still support Osama that he is indeed a loon with hopes that they will no longer support him. Why would they put this plan in jepordy with a fake video and the risk of it turning even more people against the effort ?
I suggest that unless you have a broadband connection that you watch it on TV. Even the Tommy Lee and Pamela video seemed faked when I seen it on realplayer via a 56k modem.
 
2001-12-13 01:09:26 PM  
NOW NOW NOW MY FRIENDS!!!!! It appears that we have a little dilema here. How can you prove that the video is actually Osama Bin Laden?
Now we see here. That turbine worn in the video is clearly a size 8.5. As all of you well know, Mr. Bin Laden is a size 7. That man's head is obviously too big to be Mr. Bin Laden! You must acquit!! IF THE TURBINE DON'T FIT, YOU MUST ACQUIT!

Don't make me use the Chewbacca defense!
 
2001-12-13 01:09:46 PM  
MattIdol1 i agree with you there's no real liberal mass media.... but it's not that their throwing aside their beliefs, it's that they're only taking the neo-liberal beliefs on in the first place because it's fashionable, and those are the opinions of the politicians, corporate bigwigs they socialize with.

see Bernard Goldberg's recent 'insider' book on media bias.
 
2001-12-13 01:10:28 PM  
Well this is about as fake as those moon landing propaganda tapes realeased in the 60's.
 
2001-12-13 01:10:46 PM  
For those of you thinking the media is propagandizing on behalf of the U.S., read reports being released this morning that the U.S. has been making weapons-grade anthrax for the past few years in Utah, against international treaties. And that it is identical to the anthrax in the letters.

Then stick your heads back up your rectums. Commie bastards.
 
2001-12-13 01:10:53 PM  
still not sure why people think torching the Waco nuts was a bad idea.
 
2001-12-13 01:11:04 PM  
NOW NOW NOW MY FRIENDS!!!!! It appears that we have a little dilema here. How can you prove that the video is actually Osama Bin Laden?
Now we see here. That turbine worn in the video is clearly a size 8.5. As all of you well know, Mr. Bin Laden is a size 7. That man's head is obviously too big to be Mr. Bin Laden! You must acquit!! IF THE TURBINE DON'T FIT, YOU MUST ACQUIT!

Don't make me use the Chewbacca defense!


The turban shrank in the cold water they had to use to wash it in the cave.......

plus he was wearing a rubber prosthetic device on his head to protect his turban from lice infestation...
 
nez
2001-12-13 01:14:04 PM  
Shawn, you've said some nasty things to me before, and usually don't respond to trolls such as yourself, but you're getting a little high up on your horse there pal.
 
2001-12-13 01:14:39 PM  
Disasterbator - "these guys are real mystical wackos. this tape really underscores the fact that these extremists are living in a Medieval Arab time warp."

Yes, it's like he is setting himself up as the second Old Man on the Mountain. His cave complex in Tora Boar is like the fortress at Altamut. Of course there is a striking difference between the 13th and 21ts centuries he seems to have overlooked, big farking US Planes dropping big farking bombs.
 
2001-12-13 01:15:01 PM  
Why the fark would someone wear a "turbine" on their head? Would it somehow generate energy? Or could you attach blades to it and fly up in the air like a helicopter?

Ah, perhaps he meant 'turban.'
 
2001-12-13 01:15:06 PM  
Goatman: No, I could really give a shiat about validity of the tape. What you call hypothesizing I call 'Goatmans special desire'.


Oh hey, Noam called me up and left a message. He said -
[image from web.mit.edu too old to be available]
'goatman is NOT coo.'
 
2001-12-13 01:15:32 PM  
next you'll be telling me Michael Jacksons 'Moon Walk was Fake. nooooooooooooooo
 
2001-12-13 01:16:08 PM  
because christian wackos have just as much of a claim to human rights as muslim wackos, Perrin, and incidentally, as any of us. even though political factions like to pick and choose who's basic human rights are actually of any importance.
 
2001-12-13 01:17:33 PM  
next you'll be telling me Michael Jacksons 'Moon Walk was Fake. nooooooooooooooo

'Bout the only thing on or about that "man" that isn't fake


/HEEEE hee....g'ON girl......
 
2001-12-13 01:17:35 PM  
I present to you the super Allah Turbine 2000 - YOu can go straight to heaven with this super model and only 5 easy payments of 59.95 and your soul!
 
2001-12-13 01:18:54 PM  

Untitled Document

Disasterbater:


That
stuff about the Bart Simpson broadcasts during the Gulf War is a myth.


bluelanugo

 
2001-12-13 01:19:12 PM  
Diabolik, that's right! All of us SKEPTICS are COMMIES! LENIN is going to rise up out of his embalmed state and take over the world! I'm going to open up my pagan Book of Runes, and cast a spell to make STALIN and TROTSKY rise up from the dead! Then, I'm going to make a clone of KARL MARX! That's right! The reds will take over the whole world! Ah-hahaha! You darn Capitalist pig! The proletariat will not tolerate your greed!

Oh... wait, I forgot: I'm not a Commie, I just don't believe everything the government/media/Christianity feeds me.
 
2001-12-13 01:19:26 PM  
"Shawn, you've said some nasty things to me before, and usually don't respond to trolls such as yourself, but you're getting a little high up on your horse there pal."

Compared to what others have called you, Nez, I'm positively kind and magnaminous.

Shawn
 
2001-12-13 01:19:38 PM  
Capigula, they used to have prophetic dreams about 'sheaves of wheat' and shiat, now they have visions about jumbo jets! certain things seem not to have changed among zealous peoples despite thousands of years of advances around the globe.
 
2001-12-13 01:19:57 PM  
NEWS FLASH!!!!
I AM FAKE! REPEAT: I AM FAKE!
 
2001-12-13 01:20:22 PM  
Ps. Virgins not included. They may be purchased for an additional 125.95 USD
 
2001-12-13 01:20:47 PM  
MY PROFILE IS FAKE ALSO. REPEAT: MY PROFILE IS FAKE ALSO!
 
2001-12-13 01:20:56 PM  
Disasterbator: you are ugly.
 
nez
2001-12-13 01:21:32 PM  
Isn't it a little early to be breaking out your big words dictionary Shawn?
 
2001-12-13 01:22:34 PM  
"Isn't it a little early to be breaking out your big words dictionary Shawn?"

Did I hurt your little feelings?

Why did my comments bother you more than other people's ruder comments?

Shawn
 
2001-12-13 01:23:54 PM  
wow, something's acutally fake, bluelanugo. perhaps though, the urban legend came about as an exagerration of how unsophisticated enemy 'disinformation' broadcasts are. that generalization, at least, i have heard from people in the know.
 
2001-12-13 01:24:33 PM  
UBL: "We were at a camp of one of the brother's guards in Qandahar. This brother belonged to the majority of the group. He came close and told me that he saw, in a dream, a tall building in America, and in the same dream he saw Mukhtar teaching them how to play karate. At that point, I was worried that maybe the secret would be revealed if everyone starts seeing it in their dream. So I closed the subject. I told him if he sees another dream, not to tell anybody, because people will be upset with him. (Another person's voice can be heard recounting his dream about two planes hitting a big building)."

That's got to be the quote of the year! The trials of being in the company of such visionaries. Hahahahahahaha!!!!

I had a dream last night that the St Louis Rams were in the Super Bowl against al Qaeda, but the Rams were dressed as....
 
2001-12-13 01:24:47 PM  
if you guys don't like the government and the society we have in america get the fuc/k out and go fight with the taleban
 
2001-12-13 01:25:00 PM  
Disasterbator: like the duckling.
 
2001-12-13 01:25:57 PM  
while you argue about the 'Feel good hit' of the holiday season, i must say that though i found it remarkably easy to dance to, it does'nt stand up to a say...a Carnie Wilson Video.

just my 2¢
 
2001-12-13 01:26:22 PM  
click here, Perrin.
 
maz
2001-12-13 01:26:29 PM  
Shawn and Nez: Why don't you take your little lover's spat off-line? It's interfering with my lunchtime amusement.

This message was FAKE.
 
lbo
2001-12-13 01:26:34 PM  
Ok, so I've been reading the thread and it seems that everyone who thinks it's a fake

is being sarcastic
assumes it is fake because hollywood does some really good special effects (AKA, the "i watch too many movies" syndrome)
has no concrete evidence, but just knows deep down in their heart that the government is lying (AKA, the "I read 1984 in high school and it changed my lfe" syndrome)


Did I miss anyone?
 
2001-12-13 01:26:45 PM  
Disasterbater
"perhaps though, the urban legend came about as an exagerration of how unsophisticated enemy 'disinformation' broadcasts are. that generalization, at least, i have heard from people in the know."

I don't understand what you mean. Are you saying something like: Yes it's an urban legend but it's an urban legend because it's true?
 
nez
2001-12-13 01:26:55 PM  
I'm just being cranky this morning. Stayed up too late. Also bored. In the mood for arguing.

Nothing really.
 
2001-12-13 01:27:07 PM  
Perrin:
where is your pic?
 
2001-12-13 01:27:07 PM  
For those who think this tape is faked because 'Why would Osama make this tape?'

He has made other tapes after attacks on the Cole & the two US Embassies and used the footage in his recruiting videos.
 
2001-12-13 01:27:37 PM  
Disasterbator: and Tito Jackson
 
2001-12-13 01:27:55 PM  
"Shawn and Nez: Why don't you take your little lover's spat off-line? It's interfering with my lunchtime amusement."

You can argue with us too.

Shawn
 
2001-12-13 01:28:31 PM  
Geonags, why should I be thankful for America? Because they "let me" speak my mind? Because they "gave me" free speech?

Yeah right! If America (or all of the other nations in the world) didn't exist, then I could say whatever I want, do whatever I want, and not even have to worry about close-minded sheep tell me what's "right" and "wrong." The only thing anyone in the world should be thankful for is themselves-- Quit waiting for institutions to do your work for you!
 
lbo
2001-12-13 01:29:21 PM  
don't get me wrong, it's good to question what you see in the media, but if you're going to call it a fake, at least have a good reason.
 
2001-12-13 01:29:32 PM  
Disasterbator: and you wear clothing made of dried eal gut.
 
2001-12-13 01:30:31 PM  
Disasterbator and other farkers: thats all for now, just thought i'd raise the level of debate.
 
2001-12-13 01:30:40 PM  
bluelanugo, yeah kinda.... like maybe it's an urban legend because if it were actually true it would be a good illustration of a more general truth, that is in fact true. yeah, sounds good. or maybe it's just a good story!
 
2001-12-13 01:30:44 PM  
Disasterbator - "Capigula, they used to have prophetic dreams about 'sheaves of wheat' and shiat, now they have visions about jumbo jets! certain things seem not to have changed among zealous peoples despite thousands of years of advances around the globe."

Including thier methods. Take a look at this website.http://www.disinfo.com/pages/dossier/id985/pg1/

As a matter of fact I think I'll try to post this.
 
nez
2001-12-13 01:31:08 PM  
Lbo: How about... some people would rather err on the side of caution rather than give politicians the benefit of the doubt.
 
2001-12-13 01:31:56 PM  
you trolls perform a valuable service, Perrin, and we thank you.
 
2001-12-13 01:33:07 PM  
Disasterbator: , and exit stage left.
 
2001-12-13 01:33:16 PM  
Lbo, let's examine this for a moment:

You think the video clip is real because:
- America told you so.

I think the video clip is SUSPICIOUS because:
- It is a predominantly profiled view, which is easy to manipulate graphically.
- It is in Arabic, so the translation is suspect.
- How on earth did we find the tape?
- Why would Osama even make the tape?
- We haven't had concrete proof that Osama even did it until now, when this tape just magically appeared out of nowhere.

Do I think the tape is fake? ...No. But jeez, at least LISTEN to what the other side believes, before you spit on their ideas.
 
maz
2001-12-13 01:33:27 PM  
Shawn,

I really wish I had the time to do that. I rather enjoy reading the witty banter here, that's what lurkers do best. It's just more entertaining when it's about conspiricy theories, etc... and not about personal attacks.

Take care. MZ.
 
2001-12-13 01:33:59 PM  
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A newly formed committee of 40 Hollywood executives is planning ways for the movie and television industry to support the U.S. war against terrorism but a spokesman said on Tuesday the group would not turn into a tool of the White House.

November 27
 
2001-12-13 01:34:13 PM  
What I find interesting about the tape is how unfairly Osama's laughter is being characterized as "callous". When the laughter was being described over the last few days, it was described as being at the expense of those hijackers who had unwittingly been involved in a suicide mission. Having viewed the tape today, I see his chuckling as more a part of the general joy that is in the room at their "victory over the wicked ones" ... I think, rather than some silly argument over whether the tape is FAKE or not ( since the the tape will be scrutinized by EXPERTS the world over, I doubt a faking is possible ) ... I think we should be looking at the INTERPRETATIONS of what is occuring on the tape... In other words.. I think the real disagreement is going to be over TRANSLATIONS and INTERPRETATION OF BODY LANGUAGE.. I think that the West really screws up when we try to portray OBL in terms of Western Villany ( eg. egocentric, proud, callous ) .. .it's like we can't get our heads around the fact that they have a completely different perspective... we just want to dismiss that perpective with vague terms like WACKO and whatnot.. Well, I think that our refusal to understand them is really a weakness on our part. And, let me clarify: by UNDERSTANDING, I don't mean sympathizing. I mean understanding them so that we can defeat them.
 
2001-12-13 01:34:51 PM  
This video could be soooo fake. Bush would love to get the American people supporting a strike. That way a farking republican could stay in office for the next 8 years or whatever. I think he just wants and excuse to have the people backing him up so he can buy weapons from all his republican friends. He will make money, we will be happy, and Osama is a like a movie-star villain. Translation, spamlation...
 
nez
2001-12-13 01:35:52 PM  
Lotr: "Tool of the White House"... oh it's music to my ears!
 
2001-12-13 01:35:53 PM  
"I'm just being cranky this morning. Stayed up too late. Also bored. In the mood for arguing.

Nothing really."

Personally, I attribute more evil and malfeasance to incompetence than to any pre-stated plan from up on high. Never attribute to pre-planning what can be attributed to stupidity.

IMO, and I have no evidence to back it up, some SES-1 or GS-14 at some CIA office had wind of 9/11, passed it up, but his immediate boss pooh-poohed it.

There was also a 20-minute delay between the Logan Airport traffic control phoning the FAA that something was wrong and the notification to NORAD and the Air Force.

Waco and Ruby Ridge, for example, were the result of some BATF regional director trying to prove how macho he was.

Shawn Pickrell
 
2001-12-13 01:37:15 PM  
Also, they never even said it was real... They just said, "we'll let the American people decide for themselves." Well this American doesn't think McDonalds should be dealing with that chile cheese mcdouble nonsense.
 
2001-12-13 01:37:25 PM  
This is pointless. Even if this tape were proved fake... would we stop the war?
 
maz
2001-12-13 01:38:30 PM  
"Personally, I attribute more evil and malfeasance to incompetence than to any pre-stated plan from up on high. Never attribute to pre-planning what can be attributed to stupidity."

Agreed.
 
2001-12-13 01:39:37 PM  
Good point, Mr. X-Ray. I suddenly don't care about this thread anymore. (not sarcasm)
 
2001-12-13 01:39:49 PM  
Mr.X-Ray
I dont think it's pointless... I just want to know what's really going on here. It sucks being a peon, can't see over the castle wall... Small hands, smells like cabbage
 
2001-12-13 01:39:55 PM  
Well is the tape really is fake, then we can at least Expect Osama to deny any credibilty to it can't we. I think we'll get a better understanding once we hear what he has to say on the subject.

Like that'll ever happen.

Of course there is something to consider in all of this. Everyone says he's some religious mongol and some such nonsense, so his dialouge is proof as to his connection to all of this. BUT, where does all of our information on this guy from anyway? Do any of us really know Osama on THAT personal of a level to be able to say, "NO! He'd never do something like that. This tape is obviously a lie." I dont think any of us have had, or will have the oppurtunity to have a nice Q & A with the man. And the last i checked, the average american isn't able to speak fluent Afgan.

So who knows. Everything that we've been told about that man including his characteristics and psychological makeup could be a complete lie, as crafted by the U.S. government for their own conveinence. EVERYTHING.
 
2001-12-13 01:40:27 PM  
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nez
2001-12-13 01:40:33 PM  
Shawn: Like I said, I've pretty much lost all trust in any politicians - elected or not. Osama says he did it on tape? At this point, I don't care. Yes he's an asshole, and yes he should be punished for any crime he's committed. But war is the mother of lies. Find who has the most to gain and there you'll have your villan.
 
2001-12-13 01:41:01 PM  
I think the video clip is SUSPICIOUS because:
- It is a predominantly profiled view, which is easy to manipulate graphically.
- It is in Arabic, so the translation is suspect.
- How on earth did we find the tape?
- Why would Osama even make the tape?
- We haven't had concrete proof that Osama even did it until now, when this tape just magically appeared out of nowhere.


1.) Easy, probably, but it's hard to fake it looking shi*tty. Talk to any computer graphics person. Making it look old, used, crappy and low quality is a damn sight harder than pristine.

2.) Unless you learn Arabic, you'll always believe this....

3.) It's been documented, I'm sure there'll be plenty of links to it. But it was during a raid (if I remember right).

4.) Propganda, the same thing you're loosely accusing the US of doing. Recruiting, et al.

5.) So Pakistan, the UN and all those other countries who've kept silent and let us trod across their soil haven't seen what else the US has collected? YOU haven't had concrete proof. I find it harder to believe that King Hussein of Jordan, or the King of Saudi Arabia haven't had concrete proof in front of his face. Why aren't Muslim controlled countries rising up to defend this American terrorist action then?

Devil's Advocate to your Devil's Advocate :)
 
2001-12-13 01:41:50 PM  
Disasterbater: It IS a good story. There's a little irony in the fact that the story is passed around in the west as an example of how OUT OF TOUCH they are in the Gulf. .. but, in fact, it's popularity also illustrates how OUT OF TOUCH we are in the West. We love to believe that the rest of the world is so stupid.
 
2001-12-13 01:41:51 PM  
Rhynofive: Actually, that chili cheese macdouble is pretty smashing. i implore you to try it.
 
2001-12-13 01:42:10 PM  
In this time of love and peace, when each child looks toward the guiding star, when men, women and children alike feel the warm glow of inner joy. When solace seems to fall like so many snowflakes, its time to simply say....

Kill The Bastard!!!
 
2001-12-13 01:42:29 PM  
It would have been funny if they just got a cardboard cutout of Osama and put it in the background. You could see the boom mic coming down from the top of the screen. And on top of that, they shook the cutout when he was "talking." Now that's believable!
 
2001-12-13 01:44:39 PM  
I dunno... I think Sonic should stick with the chile-based snacks... I just don't trust McDonald's behind the wheel. They have never dealt with chile before, who's to say it's not even real chile. It could be fake chile the US govt. made just to make us hate Osama more.
 
2001-12-13 01:47:27 PM  
True dat.
 
2001-12-13 01:48:06 PM  
I'm uncertain about these intermediary countries, such as Pakistan. On one hand, the people of the country are pissed at the US, but the Emirs are willing to let us use their land mainly to preserve their own power through the US (indirectly). However, the power in a leader only goes as far as the people under him/her allow. So once the US leaves these "neutral" countries, will the people be very accepting of the leaders that allowed us to enter in the first place? And if so, what effect will that have on the entire Middle East? A multi-country intifada? It's a very interesting debacle, that's for sure.
 
2001-12-13 01:48:17 PM  
MattIdol1,

Then why don't you go and get a farking boat and sail around international waters where you can say whatever you want...oh and who cares about all those people that died in the past for this country and who died so that you can now say anyting you want...get the fark out of my country
 
2001-12-13 01:48:19 PM  
Rhynofive:
This video could be soooo fake. Bush would love to get the American people supporting a strike. That way a farking republican could stay in office for the next 8 years or whatever. I think he just wants and excuse to have the people backing him up so he can buy weapons from all his republican friends.

(Most of) the American people already support the current military strikes, Bush's approval rating is already quite high (making the chances of a second term greater than his previous snoball's chance in hell), and the guv. is already buying-up weapons from republican friends...so why, exactly would there need to be a faked video to accopmplish these things that are already actualities? Sure it could be faked, but it probably isn't.
 
2001-12-13 01:48:36 PM  
MattIdoll: Oh... wait, I forgot: I'm not a Commie, I just don't believe everything the government/media/Christianity feeds me.

I love the smell of knee-jerk skepticism in the morning.
 
lbo
2001-12-13 01:50:32 PM  
Nez:

erring on the side of caution would be saying "wow, I can't determine the authenticity of the tape at this time"

I haven't seen many of those in this forum. It's either "kill the mofo" or "dubya is up to his tricks again"
 
lbo
2001-12-13 01:52:26 PM  

MattIdol1:


I didn't say I believed the tape was real.
 
2001-12-13 01:53:00 PM  
Geonags, I don't sail on a boat because it would be impossible for me to survive for very long. I don't know anything about the ocean. I'd probably get eaten by a shark or something. It would be much more feasible for the billions of people in the world all collectively dissolved their governments, living in harmony without any central leadership.

Diabolik, I love it too. What I don't love is being called a Commie/tree-hugger/terrorist-hugger every time I make an attempt to challenge the status quo.
 
2001-12-13 01:54:54 PM  
I haven't seen many of those in this forum. It's either "kill the mofo" or "dubya is up to his tricks again"

Lbo makes a good point.
 
2001-12-13 01:56:34 PM  
MattIdol1,

Good luck surving in this anarchy world of yours...it wouldn't be paradise...there would be total chaos...people would not live in harmony...what are you smoking?
 
2001-12-13 01:58:37 PM  
Let's say it is fake...

Why would the U.S. Government make such a tape? Continued U.S. support for the war? Or maybe to get Osama so pissed off causing him to make a mistake and get caught.
Osama will release a statement and U.S. Intelligence will find him. Bush will admit help from Hollywood Council and all is forgiven for the sake of Good over Evil.

The old bait and lure theory.....ha ha it's a joke
 
2001-12-13 01:58:55 PM  
Realisticly it doesn't matter or not if it is fake. It will have it's desired effect and the US will do whatever the fark they want to do regardless of it's authenticity. Just think how much it will stimulate the economy.
 
2001-12-13 02:00:47 PM  
"But war is the mother of lies. Find who has the most to gain and there you'll have your villan."

Evil men can advance their own agendas under the cover of goodness.

Whereas any campaign we undertake in Afghanistan may be the correct thing to do, it does not mean that incompetence will be stopped.

Laziness, apathy and ignorance remain the greatest enemies.

Now off to watch some footie.

Shawn
 
2001-12-13 02:01:36 PM  
Of course it wouldn't be paradise! The whole point of anarchism is that it is not a utopia. Everyone fending for themselves means if you get hurt, you take direct responsibility for it. No money, no possessions. Just individuals who could choose to either a) form new, small governments to suit their community needs, or b) roam around by themselves.

I'm not smoking anything, either.
 
2001-12-13 02:02:02 PM  
Realisticly it doesn't matter or not if it is fake. It will have it's desired effect and the US will do whatever the fark they want to do regardless of it's authenticity. Just think how much it will stimulate the economy.

Apparenlty nothing is helping.....

Dubya takes down a couple of buildings so he can fire up the war machine and ensure a second term......no real help.

He evicts the Taliban, no help.

Now this video tape.....market still down and all the rate drops have don't diddly.....

Now it's time to break out the ol' ball buster. Good ol' fightin' with Russia about missles....

(sarcasm, it goes to 11)
 
lbo
2001-12-13 02:03:03 PM  
MattIdol1

Challenge the status quo all you want. All I ask is that you don't say it's fake for the sake of voicing a dissenting opinion. If you don't believe the tape, back it up with FACTS, not conjecture or assumptions.

The tape will be analyzed by digital media experts for years. I'll take what they have to say about it with more salt than "But have you seen jurassic park?" or "profiles are easier to fake than frontal shots"

Personally, I don't know anything about arabic, or video editing, and I already view CNN as rose-colored glasses for the US, so I'm not sure what to think.
 
2001-12-13 02:04:11 PM  
Just individuals who could choose to either a) form new, small governments to suit their community needs, or b) roam around by themselves.


That's how we got to where we are today. Small gov't's breed bigger ones and so on and so on.....

Nobody is stopping you from roaming around by yourself now.
 
2001-12-13 02:06:29 PM  
Lbo, I personally doubt that the tape is fake. But I have this personal "ideal" that I always keep in the back of my mind: never assume everything you see/hear/believe is true, moral, or ethical.
 
2001-12-13 02:06:37 PM  
mattidol1 what's funny is that if you're really challenging the status quo you'll be called a leftist nut by the conservatives and a conservative nut by the leftists.
 
2001-12-13 02:06:41 PM  
Someone get UBL and his friend a pair of lung suckers or something. That sucking sound was just too damned annoying.


*ssslliirrpp!* *weeze*

:p
 
Rei
2001-12-13 02:07:46 PM  
Everyone fending for themselves means if you get hurt, you take direct responsibility for it.

Hardly. A solitary goatherder in the middle of the most remote place of afghanistan gets taken out by a Northern Alliance commander's troops when they see him, because they want his posessions. Was it his fault? What more could he have done?
 
2001-12-13 02:08:32 PM  
Good one LordoftheRings!

What if, though, you know?
 
2001-12-13 02:09:05 PM  
Der_jackal, of course no one is stopping me. I just believe that EVERYONE should do it, not just me. By the way, if I were to roam around, what would I see? Suburbs? *Yawn*

P.S., the reason the small governments would not form into bigger ones would be because people like me would "roam" around, making sure that didn't happen.
 
2001-12-13 02:09:47 PM  
bluelanugo we are certainly stupid about them, and they are certainly stupid about us. we like to think, though, that the degree of our cultural misunderstanding is slightly less than theirs, and just enough to give us a strategic edge.
 
2001-12-13 02:10:18 PM  
These men will die. That is justice. What you say here will not change either of those things.
 
2001-12-13 02:10:37 PM  
MattIdol1 - "It would be much more feasible for the billions of people in the world all collectively dissolved their governments, living in harmony without any central leadership."

OK, I'm not making accusations but your not one of the people who say "When the US walks out and leaves Afghanistan without leadership it will collapse into civil war and it wil be our fault" are you?
 
2001-12-13 02:10:37 PM  
America was BOMBED. Why would a fake video be needed to justify any sort of retalliation? To think that any media hype is needed to avenge the attrocities which have occured is crazy.
 
2001-12-13 02:10:59 PM  
P.S., the reason the small governments would not form into bigger ones would be because people like me would "roam" around, making sure that didn't happen.

So, you'd be acting as a form of watchdog? Why should I subscribe to you being my watch dog. Why should I believe that you have my best interests in mind when you roam poking your nose in on governments around this society?

And if you got out of North America, you'd see alot more of than suburbs...
 
2001-12-13 02:11:12 PM  
Fb-: ...Much better quality on the tape than I expected.

I wonder, does that make it seem more likely to be real, or less likely? Would a poorer quality tape be more likely to be faked, or would it be more likely to be authentic?

Undflickertail, Fb-, Harmonia, others: Unless you know Arabic, why assume the translation provided by the military is correct?

DaPharmer: all movie villians give away their big plot for everyone to see and hear.. why shouldn't this piece of shiat

Doesn't it seem odd that reality should mimic a Hollywood movie? Truth is stranger than fiction, isn't it? If reality seems a lot like a scripted production... what might really be happening?

Goatman264: It does tend to beg the question of why the person filming him (if it was an American) didn't just shoot him there and then.

Because he wouldn't have survived long enough to get out of the room to take the tape back to the U.S.

Disasterbator: could that possibly be a metaphor -- or do they really think that we live in cave villages?!

No, I'm kind of guessing they know that we sometimes live in tall skyscrapers.

Tensionfilter: it it was faked then they put a lot of effort in faking it fake arab background noise fake arab speaking...

If it was faked, then they've had 3 months to put together a 30 minute video and run it before test audiences... food for thought there.

GandalfTheWhite: Iraq has already been declared the next likely US target. Osama wouldn't go there. He'd be better off in Iran, which the US is hoping someday to get buddy with.

MojoGobo: any movie with a scene where a main character talks to a large audience, that isn't near the end of the movie (when rising music would block all that out)

Anyway, if this is supposed to be a damning piece of evidence, I'd like to see something come up from after the war in afghanistan that has a well-lit, decently clear shot of Osama. OBL's face is extremely dark. I can't say that I think it's a fake, but I can't also say that I think it's real if I can't even see the person it's supposed to be.

If the posters in this forum are any indication, most Americans will accept any random dark-skinned man with a long beard and turban to be Osama Bin Laden, and promptly want to kill him.
 
2001-12-13 02:11:26 PM  
Folks, its times like these we ought to examine Occam's Razor: Do not postulate entities without need.
(i.e keep it simple, stupid)

What makes better sense: The U.S, being run by a sneaky conspiracy of Christian Oilmen quietly gather the greatest CG and Special effects experts to create, (very late in their war effort when the public has already given their consent) a justification of their cause. If exposed, they could suffer widespread international condemnation, possible public outrage, and the stiffening of muslim resistance abroad and at home. They also are sure to pay off an otherwise reputable and scrupulous translator's firm to translate a monolgue that does not exist. Hundreds of individuals are kept quiet either through bribes or clandestine threats. The media, who has formerly been hostile to the conspiracy (during the election crisis) is made compllcit by some hidden mechanism.


Or....

Osama Bin Laden, enjoying his twilight as a near legendary figre in the muslim world, endulges in a final Hitlerian rant against those who stand against him. Intended to spur his brownshirts on, it is acquired by western media who portray it as impotent and sad.

Goatman, Harmonia. Yes you have certain rights in determining what is "true" for you. You are entitled to think this is fake in the same way you are entitled to believe Stalin was a hispanic lesbian vampire who shiatted cupcakes..
 
2001-12-13 02:12:51 PM  
You know, all of this is theoretical, just like this whole thread. Its just another political theory. Whereas the left says "Wah! No big business!" and the right says "Wah! No big government," I tend to say "Screw big business and government! Mankind can live without them!"

Then again, maybe my theory would fall flat in practice, just like Communism. Anyone willing to help me find out?

And what does any of this have to do with the Bin Laden tape! Ahh!
 
2001-12-13 02:13:42 PM  
not so, bennyhana, carnivore regularly filters out Fark posts for use in defense dept. brainstorming sessions and state dept. advisory meetings. i'm sure of it.
 
2001-12-13 02:15:54 PM  
Is that Milkit gone yet? His shyte has gotten old, although he was right about Holland/Netherlands.
 
2001-12-13 02:16:18 PM  
And what does any of this have to do with the Bin Laden tape! Ahh!

Nothing, I just like tangental philosophical debates about utopian ideals :)

tangents, the seedless oranges of thought
 
2001-12-13 02:16:33 PM  
Disasterbator,

Yes, we don't understand them and they don't understand us. We did not understand how pissed-off they are at America because we support Arab governments they hate. We also did not understand what an intollerant religion they follow. They didn't understand that they better find a better way to getting their point across then attacking us or we would bomb them into oblivion.
 
2001-12-13 02:16:34 PM  
Oh, and Der_Jackal, you don't have to subscribe to my being a watchdog. If you don't like me, have your little government capture me or something.

Capitalism is supposedly "Social Darwinism," whereas my theory is Social Justice AND Social Darwinism at the same time! Boo-ya!
 
2001-12-13 02:16:45 PM  
i'll say it again...if you guys don't like the government and the society we have in america get the fuc/k out and go fight with the taleban
 
2001-12-13 02:18:02 PM  
I can't wait to see what the National Enquirer has to say about the tape. I want the "real" story. I'm sure they already have the one true copy without cuts.
 
Rei
2001-12-13 02:18:25 PM  
3.)Believe something else, and actually go out and do whatever you can to realize it. And prepare to face the consequences, if it involves sabotage of US government technology (*wink* Rei *wink*).

My god, you people are insane if you think that was anything other than a discussion about ESM/ECM techniques. Do you *honestly* think that someone from *IOWA* would leave their job, fly to *Britain*, spend their money building a jammer, and stay in Britain to attempt to jam a radar daily - as some sort of form of *protest*? You people are nuts...

OK, I'm not making accusations but your not one of the people who say "When the US walks out and leaves Afghanistan without leadership it will collapse into civil war and it wil be our fault" are you?

BTW, although that wasn't addressed to me - I'm not. Instead, I'm making accusations that Afghanistan has already begun to collapse into civil war, even with the US there.. ;)

Iraq has already been declared the next likely US target.

Nah, it's Somalia. The US is going to get Iraq once the US populace starts getting tired of us going from country to country to bomb people.
 
2001-12-13 02:21:01 PM  
MattIDoll: What I don't love is being called a Commie/tree-hugger/terrorist-hugger every time I make an attempt to challenge the status quo.

Curious: When isn't the status quo wrong?
 
lbo
2001-12-13 02:21:46 PM  
12-13-01 02:10:37 PM Lewdlulu
America was BOMBED. Why would a fake video be needed to justify any sort of retalliation? To think that any media hype is needed to avenge the attrocities which have occured is crazy.


You're right. We don't need to justify a counter-attack. But let's just make sure that we're

attacking the right people
.

(and for the record, the taliban are as responsible as the US for the civilian casualties. And the civilians are at fault for allowing the taliban to do what they did. It's a big shiat sandwich, and we all have to take a bite)
 
2001-12-13 02:22:03 PM  
Bin Laden kinda looks fat in that video. He needs a better fashion consultant if he's gonna keep appearing in videos.
 
2001-12-13 02:23:51 PM  
MattIDoll: Capitalism is supposedly "Social Darwinism," whereas my theory is Social Justice AND Social Darwinism at the same time! Boo-ya!

I'm with you on this one. Some people are hazy on the Social Justice thing, though.
 
2001-12-13 02:23:55 PM  
Rei normally your points are insightfull and founded in fact or at least have some evidence to support them but suggesting that this tape is fake is kinda off the wall, no more then kind of actually. Time to up the prozac Rei
 
2001-12-13 02:24:33 PM  
The Status Quo:

1). We need to destroy the Taliban, we need to destroy Al Qaeda.

2.) We need to beef up our homeland security.

------------------

1.) I agree that we should topple the regime and hunt down terrorists around the world.

2.) I disagree with security devices, internet spying technology, hidden cameras. I despise John Aschcroft.

------------------

So there you have it. I'm really not as pragmatic as you might think.
 
2001-12-13 02:26:49 PM  
osama= butt baby
 
2001-12-13 02:26:56 PM  
If you're concerned about why the government won't reveal the source of the tape, and why the filmer didn't shoot OBL, here's a wacky theory.

They would like to keep receiving intelligence from the source of the tape. Naming the source would likely result in the source becoming extremely dead.

As to why not shoot him--perhaps they would like to continue receiving intelligence about Al Qaeda even after OBL is removed from the picture.

Just a theory.
 
2001-12-13 02:28:34 PM  
If you're concerned about why the government won't reveal the source of the tape, and why the filmer didn't shoot OBL, here's a wacky theory.

They would like to keep receiving intelligence from the source of the tape. Naming the source would likely result in the source becoming extremely dead.

As to why not shoot him--perhaps they would like to continue receiving intelligence about Al Qaeda even after OBL is removed from the picture.

Just a theory.
 
2001-12-13 02:30:56 PM  
If you're concerned about why the government won't reveal the source of the tape, and why the filmer didn't shoot OBL, here's a wacky theory.

They would like to keep receiving intelligence from the source of the tape. Naming the source would likely result in the source becoming extremely dead.

As to why not shoot him--perhaps they would like to continue receiving intelligence about Al Qaeda even after OBL is removed from the picture.

Just a theory.
 
2001-12-13 02:34:35 PM  
MattIdoll: I agree, and I agree. I kiss you!

But having motives for faking a tape shouldn't automatically make it so, wouldn't you agree?
 
2001-12-13 02:34:39 PM  
Well I've been here way, way, way too long... See everyone later, on another thread, in another debate.
 
2001-12-13 02:37:56 PM  
" still not sure why people think torching the Waco nuts was a bad idea." - Perrin

PERRIN, if you truly want an answer to that question rent "Waco:Rules of Engagement" and watch it in its entirety.

------------------------------------------------------------
"Bush would love to get the American people supporting a strike" - Rhynofive

Rhynofive, the American people DO and ARE supporting the strike. Check out the papers, news channels, internet, etc.
------------------------------------------------------------
Goatman264, I believe you are half "devil's advocate" on your mother's side and enjoy taking up the minority side of any argument simply to hear yourself talk. If you question the validity of the newly released Bin Laden tape, do you question the gun-cam footage released by the Pentagon as well? Maybe we aren't even in Afghanistan...can you prove to me different? I didn't think so.

Shrapper
 
2001-12-13 02:37:56 PM  
MojoGobo: Here's another theory: the NA took over Jalalabad and didn't take 2 nanoseconds to check every single videotape in every single private residence for evidence of attacks. Since they were too busy looking for Talibs and pretty much worrying about not getting shot by saboteurs, I would image watching videos was not the first thing on their agenda. So it took a while to find that tape.
 
2001-12-13 02:38:56 PM  
As to why it took so long to release the tape after the capture of Jalalabad, that is.
 
2001-12-13 02:38:59 PM  
Dear god! Triple post! apologies. I'm just trying to jack up the comment count
 
2001-12-13 02:43:25 PM  
On a side note, does anyone here remember The Segway? I wonder what ever happened to that "revolution on two wheels". Ah, those were the good ole days...

Shrapper
 
2001-12-13 02:43:29 PM  
Post so nice it is listed thrice!!
 
2001-12-13 02:45:01 PM  
the system posted
three of mojogobo's posts
where are the Fark mods?
 
2001-12-13 02:45:26 PM  
MojoGobo:
All you have to do to jack up the comment count is just disagree with everyone and call them names...then sit back and watch the flamming and the comment count go up Big Time.
 
2001-12-13 02:46:53 PM  
 
2001-12-13 02:47:28 PM  
sorry bout the bad HTML
 
2001-12-13 02:49:15 PM  
ah hell with stupid video faked o not..

LET'S INVADE IRAQ AND SOMALIA NOW!!!
 
Rei
2001-12-13 02:50:16 PM  
Vman:

Rei normally your points are insightfull and founded in fact or at least have some evidence to support them but suggesting that this tape is fake is kinda off the wall, no more then kind of actually. Time to up the prozac Rei

Oh, beautiful.

Vman, point to a single post where I said that this tape was faked, and I'll bake you a batch of chocolate chip cookies and mail them to you ;)

If not, I suggest you apologize ;)

I'm no idiot here. Just because I disagree with our *approach* to capturing al Qaeda (via launching an all-out bombing campaign often targetting heavily populated areas based on aerial-only reconaissance and hitting civilian infrastructure) doesn't mean I thkn our government is going to stage a video, nor does it mean that I think bin Laden isn't guilty.
 
2001-12-13 02:50:45 PM  
<trollMode>Ozzie_Pride: That's the most asinine thing I ever heard of. Only someone from Australia (which, as you know, is populated entirely by criminals) could come up with such a thing, so I clearly cannot choose the wine in front of you!
</trollMode>
 
2001-12-13 02:51:43 PM  
nice haiku, disasterbator. I advocate more haiku in heavy debate threads.
 
2001-12-13 02:52:17 PM  
IF the tape is real, then how come there was a considerable delay in between when they said they had a tape of Osama and when they showed it to the public?

They probably faked it...

I don't see much point to faking it to make people hate Osama, since everyone in America wants Osama's head on a pike for a christmas present.
 
2001-12-13 02:52:34 PM  
..targetting heavily populated areas based on aerial-only reconaissance and hitting civilian infrastructure..

Isn't "heavily populated" an oxymoron for that region? ;)
 
2001-12-13 02:53:04 PM  
Anyone know how to mirror a site? I need to know