Diabolik, that's right! All of us SKEPTICS are COMMIES! LENIN is going to rise up out of his embalmed state and take over the world! I'm going to open up my pagan Book of Runes, and cast a spell to make STALIN and TROTSKY rise up from the dead! Then, I'm going to make a clone of KARL MARX! That's right! The reds will take over the whole world! Ah-hahaha! You darn Capitalist pig! The proletariat will not tolerate your greed!

Oh... wait, I forgot: I'm not a Commie, I just don't believe everything the government/media/Christianity feeds me.

"Shawn, you've said some nasty things to me before, and usually don't respond to trolls such as yourself, but you're getting a little high up on your horse there pal."

Compared to what others have called you, Nez, I'm positively kind and magnaminous.

Shawn

Capigula, they used to have prophetic dreams about 'sheaves of wheat' and shiat, now they have visions about jumbo jets! certain things seem not to have changed among zealous peoples despite thousands of years of advances around the globe.

NEWS FLASH!!!!
I AM FAKE! REPEAT: I AM FAKE!

Ps. Virgins not included. They may be purchased for an additional 125.95 USD

MY PROFILE IS FAKE ALSO. REPEAT: MY PROFILE IS FAKE ALSO!

Disasterbator: you are ugly.

Isn't it a little early to be breaking out your big words dictionary Shawn?

"Isn't it a little early to be breaking out your big words dictionary Shawn?"

Did I hurt your little feelings?

Why did my comments bother you more than other people's ruder comments?

Shawn

wow, something's acutally fake, bluelanugo. perhaps though, the urban legend came about as an exagerration of how unsophisticated enemy 'disinformation' broadcasts are. that generalization, at least, i have heard from people in the know.

UBL: "We were at a camp of one of the brother's guards in Qandahar. This brother belonged to the majority of the group. He came close and told me that he saw, in a dream, a tall building in America, and in the same dream he saw Mukhtar teaching them how to play karate. At that point, I was worried that maybe the secret would be revealed if everyone starts seeing it in their dream. So I closed the subject. I told him if he sees another dream, not to tell anybody, because people will be upset with him. (Another person's voice can be heard recounting his dream about two planes hitting a big building)."

That's got to be the quote of the year! The trials of being in the company of such visionaries. Hahahahahahaha!!!!

I had a dream last night that the St Louis Rams were in the Super Bowl against al Qaeda, but the Rams were dressed as....

if you guys don't like the government and the society we have in america get the fuc/k out and go fight with the taleban

Disasterbator: like the duckling.

while you argue about the 'Feel good hit' of the holiday season, i must say that though i found it remarkably easy to dance to, it does'nt stand up to a say...a Carnie Wilson Video.

just my 2¢

click here, Perrin.

Shawn and Nez: Why don't you take your little lover's spat off-line? It's interfering with my lunchtime amusement.

This message was FAKE.

Ok, so I've been reading the thread and it seems that everyone who thinks it's a fake

is being sarcastic
assumes it is fake because hollywood does some really good special effects (AKA, the "i watch too many movies" syndrome)
has no concrete evidence, but just knows deep down in their heart that the government is lying (AKA, the "I read 1984 in high school and it changed my lfe" syndrome)


Did I miss anyone?

Disasterbater
"perhaps though, the urban legend came about as an exagerration of how unsophisticated enemy 'disinformation' broadcasts are. that generalization, at least, i have heard from people in the know."

I don't understand what you mean. Are you saying something like: Yes it's an urban legend but it's an urban legend because it's true?

I'm just being cranky this morning. Stayed up too late. Also bored. In the mood for arguing.

Nothing really.

Perrin:
where is your pic?

For those who think this tape is faked because 'Why would Osama make this tape?'

He has made other tapes after attacks on the Cole & the two US Embassies and used the footage in his recruiting videos.

Disasterbator: and Tito Jackson

"Shawn and Nez: Why don't you take your little lover's spat off-line? It's interfering with my lunchtime amusement."

You can argue with us too.

Shawn

Geonags, why should I be thankful for America? Because they "let me" speak my mind? Because they "gave me" free speech?

Yeah right! If America (or all of the other nations in the world) didn't exist, then I could say whatever I want, do whatever I want, and not even have to worry about close-minded sheep tell me what's "right" and "wrong." The only thing anyone in the world should be thankful for is themselves-- Quit waiting for institutions to do your work for you!

don't get me wrong, it's good to question what you see in the media, but if you're going to call it a fake, at least have a good reason.

Disasterbator: and you wear clothing made of dried eal gut.

Disasterbator and other farkers: thats all for now, just thought i'd raise the level of debate.

bluelanugo, yeah kinda.... like maybe it's an urban legend because if it were actually true it would be a good illustration of a more general truth, that is in fact true. yeah, sounds good. or maybe it's just a good story!

Disasterbator - "Capigula, they used to have prophetic dreams about 'sheaves of wheat' and shiat, now they have visions about jumbo jets! certain things seem not to have changed among zealous peoples despite thousands of years of advances around the globe."

Including thier methods. Take a look at this website.http://www.disinfo.com/pages/dossier/id985/pg1/

As a matter of fact I think I'll try to post this.

Lbo: How about... some people would rather err on the side of caution rather than give politicians the benefit of the doubt.

you trolls perform a valuable service, Perrin, and we thank you.

Disasterbator: , and exit stage left.

Lbo, let's examine this for a moment:

You think the video clip is real because:
- America told you so.

I think the video clip is SUSPICIOUS because:
- It is a predominantly profiled view, which is easy to manipulate graphically.
- It is in Arabic, so the translation is suspect.
- How on earth did we find the tape?
- Why would Osama even make the tape?
- We haven't had concrete proof that Osama even did it until now, when this tape just magically appeared out of nowhere.

Do I think the tape is fake? ...No. But jeez, at least LISTEN to what the other side believes, before you spit on their ideas.

Shawn,

I really wish I had the time to do that. I rather enjoy reading the witty banter here, that's what lurkers do best. It's just more entertaining when it's about conspiricy theories, etc... and not about personal attacks.

Take care. MZ.

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A newly formed committee of 40 Hollywood executives is planning ways for the movie and television industry to support the U.S. war against terrorism but a spokesman said on Tuesday the group would not turn into a tool of the White House.

November 27

What I find interesting about the tape is how unfairly Osama's laughter is being characterized as "callous". When the laughter was being described over the last few days, it was described as being at the expense of those hijackers who had unwittingly been involved in a suicide mission. Having viewed the tape today, I see his chuckling as more a part of the general joy that is in the room at their "victory over the wicked ones" ... I think, rather than some silly argument over whether the tape is FAKE or not ( since the the tape will be scrutinized by EXPERTS the world over, I doubt a faking is possible ) ... I think we should be looking at the INTERPRETATIONS of what is occuring on the tape... In other words.. I think the real disagreement is going to be over TRANSLATIONS and INTERPRETATION OF BODY LANGUAGE.. I think that the West really screws up when we try to portray OBL in terms of Western Villany ( eg. egocentric, proud, callous ) .. .it's like we can't get our heads around the fact that they have a completely different perspective... we just want to dismiss that perpective with vague terms like WACKO and whatnot.. Well, I think that our refusal to understand them is really a weakness on our part. And, let me clarify: by UNDERSTANDING, I don't mean sympathizing. I mean understanding them so that we can defeat them.

This video could be soooo fake. Bush would love to get the American people supporting a strike. That way a farking republican could stay in office for the next 8 years or whatever. I think he just wants and excuse to have the people backing him up so he can buy weapons from all his republican friends. He will make money, we will be happy, and Osama is a like a movie-star villain. Translation, spamlation...

Lotr: "Tool of the White House"... oh it's music to my ears!

"I'm just being cranky this morning. Stayed up too late. Also bored. In the mood for arguing.

Nothing really."

Personally, I attribute more evil and malfeasance to incompetence than to any pre-stated plan from up on high. Never attribute to pre-planning what can be attributed to stupidity.

IMO, and I have no evidence to back it up, some SES-1 or GS-14 at some CIA office had wind of 9/11, passed it up, but his immediate boss pooh-poohed it.

There was also a 20-minute delay between the Logan Airport traffic control phoning the FAA that something was wrong and the notification to NORAD and the Air Force.

Waco and Ruby Ridge, for example, were the result of some BATF regional director trying to prove how macho he was.

Shawn Pickrell

Also, they never even said it was real... They just said, "we'll let the American people decide for themselves." Well this American doesn't think McDonalds should be dealing with that chile cheese mcdouble nonsense.

This is pointless. Even if this tape were proved fake... would we stop the war?

"Personally, I attribute more evil and malfeasance to incompetence than to any pre-stated plan from up on high. Never attribute to pre-planning what can be attributed to stupidity."

Agreed.

Good point, Mr. X-Ray. I suddenly don't care about this thread anymore. (not sarcasm)

Mr.X-Ray
I dont think it's pointless... I just want to know what's really going on here. It sucks being a peon, can't see over the castle wall... Small hands, smells like cabbage

Well is the tape really is fake, then we can at least Expect Osama to deny any credibilty to it can't we. I think we'll get a better understanding once we hear what he has to say on the subject.

Like that'll ever happen.

Of course there is something to consider in all of this. Everyone says he's some religious mongol and some such nonsense, so his dialouge is proof as to his connection to all of this. BUT, where does all of our information on this guy from anyway? Do any of us really know Osama on THAT personal of a level to be able to say, "NO! He'd never do something like that. This tape is obviously a lie." I dont think any of us have had, or will have the oppurtunity to have a nice Q & A with the man. And the last i checked, the average american isn't able to speak fluent Afgan.

So who knows. Everything that we've been told about that man including his characteristics and psychological makeup could be a complete lie, as crafted by the U.S. government for their own conveinence. EVERYTHING.

ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!! ALLAH IS FAKE!!!

Shawn: Like I said, I've pretty much lost all trust in any politicians - elected or not. Osama says he did it on tape? At this point, I don't care. Yes he's an asshole, and yes he should be punished for any crime he's committed. But war is the mother of lies. Find who has the most to gain and there you'll have your villan.

I think the video clip is SUSPICIOUS because:
- It is a predominantly profiled view, which is easy to manipulate graphically.
- It is in Arabic, so the translation is suspect.
- How on earth did we find the tape?
- Why would Osama even make the tape?
- We haven't had concrete proof that Osama even did it until now, when this tape just magically appeared out of nowhere.

1.) Easy, probably, but it's hard to fake it looking shi*tty. Talk to any computer graphics person. Making it look old, used, crappy and low quality is a damn sight harder than pristine.

2.) Unless you learn Arabic, you'll always believe this....

3.) It's been documented, I'm sure there'll be plenty of links to it. But it was during a raid (if I remember right).

4.) Propganda, the same thing you're loosely accusing the US of doing. Recruiting, et al.

5.) So Pakistan, the UN and all those other countries who've kept silent and let us trod across their soil haven't seen what else the US has collected? YOU haven't had concrete proof. I find it harder to believe that King Hussein of Jordan, or the King of Saudi Arabia haven't had concrete proof in front of his face. Why aren't Muslim controlled countries rising up to defend this American terrorist action then?

Devil's Advocate to your Devil's Advocate :)

Disasterbater: It IS a good story. There's a little irony in the fact that the story is passed around in the west as an example of how OUT OF TOUCH they are in the Gulf. .. but, in fact, it's popularity also illustrates how OUT OF TOUCH we are in the West. We love to believe that the rest of the world is so stupid.