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(Talking Points Memo)   Why aren't there more Koch-like billionaires pouring money into politics? I don't know, maybe because having millions of people know your name and face after you've screwed them over can lead to problems when the revolution comes   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 93
    More: Obvious, Tom Steyer, D-NY, David Koch, safe seat, McCutcheon, Walton family, political committee  
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1737 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Sep 2014 at 12:38 PM (33 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-09-03 11:20:54 AM  
I dunno, have you looked at Congress? Cocks. Cocks everywhere.
 
2014-09-03 11:42:06 AM  
I've wondered if there has to be a point where this sort of massive media saturation just starts to become counterproductive, especially as big donors like the Koch Brothers become more visible.  When everyone knows all those attack ads against someone are being paid for by a couple of billionaires trying to advance their own interests, how effective can they continue to be?

My guess is the the ultimate aim isn't so much to convince anyone as it is together the less motivated voters so sick of the whole thing they tune out all politics and don't vote at all.
 
2014-09-03 11:51:06 AM  
Most billionaires are too busy on their yachts and jets and private islands.

If I was a billionaire Id be spending money on hookers and blow, not some county council race in Iowa.
 
DGS [TotalFark]
2014-09-03 12:41:35 PM  
Mr. A is getting a kick out of this thread.

i.forbesimg.com
 
2014-09-03 12:41:47 PM  
May be because not all Billionaires are sociopath?
 
2014-09-03 12:43:52 PM  
cuz you're either too rich to give a shiat or rich enough to help people without the need for government?
 
2014-09-03 12:45:16 PM  
The Kochs are not big doners though.  They are uber bundlers for the other multi millionaires to billionaires.
 
2014-09-03 12:49:03 PM  
images.forbes.com

Because some understood they can bypass politicians to get their message known.
 
2014-09-03 12:50:25 PM  
Because the Kochs are 'true believers' and it's smarter to just quietly give money to both sides?
 
2014-09-03 12:55:48 PM  
inb4 but SOROS!
 
2014-09-03 12:56:34 PM  

Rashnu: Because the Kochs are 'true believers' and it's smarter to just quietly give money to both sides?


That's probably closest to the truth but still misses the point that the Koch brothers have made a vast fortune in the energy industry by pushing the bounds of safety and environmental regulation.  Sure, they're "true believers" but if the Democratic party suddenly had a huge push to further deregulate oil and gas exploration and transportation and the Republicans were the party of clean water, the Koch's party affiliation would switch in a heartbeat.
 
MFK
2014-09-03 01:03:06 PM  

jake_lex: I've wondered if there has to be a point where this sort of massive media saturation just starts to become counterproductive, especially as big donors like the Koch Brothers become more visible.  When everyone knows all those attack ads against someone are being paid for by a couple of billionaires trying to advance their own interests, how effective can they continue to be?

My guess is the the ultimate aim isn't so much to convince anyone as it is together the less motivated voters so sick of the whole thing they tune out all politics and don't vote at all.


It's not the billionaires' names attached to any of it. It's "Americans for Prosperity". Sure, it's only TWO Americans who will prosper, but it sounds good and most people will assume that it's some sort of grass roots movement and not  just two rich assholes who are trying to see how big they can make their money pile.
 
2014-09-03 01:03:07 PM  
The Koch Brothers never built anything....they inherited it.  They were handed wealth and realized pretty early on that if they were going to keep it, and do so by being in the industries they are, they would need to be actively involved and engaged in all manners by which those industries are regarded and regulated.

It's like Mitt running for President.  No one really believes Mitt wants to be President....to him it's like the guy starting his own business in a small town joining the Rotary Club or Freemasons. It's an entry fee for bigger and better things.  He does a stint for 4 or 8 years and during that time his kids are sent around the world as "Goodwill Ambassadors" which will translate into business prospects after the big gig is up.  Mitt gets to go back to Utah, open a big office and run his industry with his family and get asked what he thinks about things now and again.
 
2014-09-03 01:08:54 PM  

jake_lex: I've wondered if there has to be a point where this sort of massive media saturation just starts to become counterproductive, especially as big donors like the Koch Brothers become more visible.  When everyone knows all those attack ads against someone are being paid for by a couple of billionaires trying to advance their own interests, how effective can they continue to be?

My guess is the the ultimate aim isn't so much to convince anyone as it is together the less motivated voters so sick of the whole thing they tune out all politics and don't vote at all.


Brainwashing techniques are effective even when people are aware they are being brainwashed. Same thing goes for propaganda and advertising.
 
2014-09-03 01:10:45 PM  

vernonFL: Most billionaires are too busy on their yachts and jets and private islands.

If I was a billionaire Id be spending money on hookers and blow, not some county council race in Iowa.




Depends on what they want.
If its something involving a small town in Iowa, even if its only indirectly, its not like it costs a lot of money to buy the whole system out.

I think billionaires are heavily involved in politics. Most of them simply aren't open about it. They know that showing face could affect their candidates chances, and they also know people are too stupid to ask where their politicians got all that campaign cash from. So they lobby quietly and just out of sight.

/the candidate who says he hasn't sold out?
/oh FARK yea, he's sold out every hole he owns.
/the candidate who actually hasn't sold out can't even afford to print his own bumper stickers.
 
2014-09-03 01:11:04 PM  

vernonFL: Most billionaires are too busy on their yachts and jets and private islands.

If I was a billionaire Id be spending money on hookers and blow, not some county council race in Iowa.


Well, other than the hookers and blow, I'd spend money raising awareness on issues where the solutions would benefit everyone, not just me.

Of course, I'd make enemies of the likes of the Koch Brothers...that's where my fun would come from: trolling their asses.
 
2014-09-03 01:20:28 PM  

somedude210: I dunno, have you looked at Congress? Cocks. Cocks everywhere.


You're talking about that bar called "Congress" in an alley downtown, right? I think I remember, um...hanging out... there.
 
2014-09-03 01:22:34 PM  
jake_lex:I've wondered if there has to be a point where this sort of massive media saturation just starts to become counterproductive, especially as big donors like the Koch Brothers become more visible.  When everyone knows all those attack ads against someone are being paid for by a couple of billionaires trying to advance their own interests, how effective can they continue to be?
My guess is the the ultimate aim isn't so much to convince anyone as it is together the less motivated voters so sick of the whole thing they tune out all politics and don't vote at all.


... Have you been watching developments lately?

"There's a sucker born every minute."

"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been.  The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge'."
 
2014-09-03 01:24:53 PM  
a4.files.biography.com
www.dcclothesline.com
 
2014-09-03 01:30:36 PM  
Because the other billionaires know that if you keep your head down and don't raise the issue, tax increases won't gain political traction.
 
2014-09-03 01:37:03 PM  

ferretman: [a4.files.biography.com image 599x599]
[www.dcclothesline.com image 600x400]


OK, same question: why aren't there more like them, pouring millions or billions into political races?
 
2014-09-03 01:43:20 PM  
"The Revolution"?  What a joke.  You can't get three true revolutionaries - be they eco, neo-Nazi, Islamist or other - in a room without one being an undercover FBI agent.  Drones watch from the skies and the NSA monitors every electronic utterance.  The majority of the struggling proletariat have just enough in life to fear losing it all, as they are constantly reminded by the periodic examples made of those who transgress and are disproportionately punished.

The rich can piss off whoever they please.  Heads will not roll, tomorrow or ever.
 
2014-09-03 01:43:24 PM  

Dr Dreidel: ferretman: [a4.files.biography.com image 599x599]
[www.dcclothesline.com image 600x400]

OK, same question: why aren't there more like them, pouring millions or billions into political races?


Top donors:

https://www.opensecrets.org/overview/topcontribs.php
 
2014-09-03 01:44:40 PM  
Why aren't there more wealthy pouring money into politics? More like in what ways are wealthy people smarter and more sly than the Kochs are pouring money into elections under the media's radar?
 
2014-09-03 01:45:31 PM  
The Kochs ought to stay in Kansas...they are just country bumpkins at heart who are big fat pigeons...the GOP is fleecing them today, wine hucksters were fleecing them yesterday and the libertarians did it in the 80's...most billionaires are smart enough to know that grifters are everywhere when you got that kind of scratch, but not these guys...they are so deperate for validation they will throw money at anything that they think will elevate them to something more than some billionaire hillbillies...and there is no shortage of grifters who will happily take their cash and tell em what they wanna hear...yea, you guys are real wine connoisseurs...really fancy like...

http://www.winespectator.com/webfeature/show/id/49771
 
2014-09-03 01:48:16 PM  

ferretman: Dr Dreidel: ferretman: [a4.files.biography.com image 599x599]
[www.dcclothesline.com image 600x400]

OK, same question: why aren't there more like them, pouring millions or billions into political races?

Top donors:

https://www.opensecrets.org/overview/topcontribs.php


Ah, I forgot that corporations are people.
 
2014-09-03 01:49:33 PM  
Koch led donations, 2012: $400M
Soros led donations, 2012: $5M

Equally bad, clearly.
 
2014-09-03 01:51:50 PM  

LucklessWonder: inb4 but SOROS!


DRINK!
 
2014-09-03 01:53:50 PM  

mayIFark: May be because not all Billionaires are sociopath?


Many of the super wealthy are rabidly stingy which is how they got that way, which is somewhat sociopathic. They may donate if only if the  return is guaranteed.

The wealthy have a reputation for being lousy tippers and trying to stiff people on their bills just because they can.
 
2014-09-03 02:03:44 PM  

Dr Dreidel: ferretman: [a4.files.biography.com image 599x599]
[www.dcclothesline.com image 600x400]

OK, same question: why aren't there more like them, pouring millions or billions into political races?


The return on investment is minuscule.
 
2014-09-03 02:04:02 PM  

No Such Agency: "The Revolution"?  What a joke.  You can't get three true revolutionaries - be they eco, neo-Nazi, Islamist or other - in a room without one being an undercover FBI agent.  Drones watch from the skies and the NSA monitors every electronic utterance.  The majority of the struggling proletariat have just enough in life to fear losing it all, as they are constantly reminded by the periodic examples made of those who transgress and are disproportionately punished.

The rich can piss off whoever they please.  Heads will not roll, tomorrow or ever.


And it's only getting worse as technology improves.
 
2014-09-03 02:14:05 PM  

Evil Twin Skippy: Dr Dreidel: ferretman: [a4.files.biography.com image 599x599]
[www.dcclothesline.com image 600x400]

OK, same question: why aren't there more like them, pouring millions or billions into political races?

The return on investment is minuscule.


So I had written some words before that OP that kept getting ate. They're relevant, so I'll reproduce here:

The Kochs are True Believers all right - in money, not in any political ideology. They know that being able to write and rewrite laws and regulations to their benefit (which includes striking regulatory language) is a far better moneymaker than being a Republican or a Democrat, or even a libertarian (or Libertarian).

It just happens that these days, it's the GOP that's willing to play ball with them.

// you're right in general
// but if I spend $10M on 10 races, and only "win" one - if it's the race to control the governorship in a state in which I own many mining operations and the other 9 are lower-level races, I'm fine with my whole ROI coming from the one win
// meaning it might be worth several times the total investment to install, say, a Walker or Corbett in a single position of importance while also hedging with a bunch of lower-level State House types (who can shift the Legislative Branch to their side, but that's far trickier)
// you gotta diversify yo' bought-and-paid-for elected officials, my fellow attractive and successful Republican
 
2014-09-03 02:14:48 PM  

KarmicDisaster: LucklessWonder: inb4 but SOROS!

DRINK!


Waaay ahead of you.
 
2014-09-03 02:15:06 PM  

Dr Dreidel: OK, same question: why aren't there more like them, pouring millions or billions into political races?


When we're talking about individuals, there's not a huge pool of people to draw from that can front that kind of cash. I mean, that's kind of at the heart of the narrative.
 
2014-09-03 02:16:17 PM  
uh, Most of these richest Americans do pour money into politics.

Bill Gates
Warren Buffett
Larry Ellison
Charles Koch
David H. Koch
Christy Walton
Jim Walton
Alice Walton
S. Robson Walton
Michael Bloomberg
Sheldon Adelson
 
2014-09-03 02:17:56 PM  

DGS: Mr. A is getting a kick out of this thread.

[i.forbesimg.com image 416x416]


I still can't believe Mitt Romney courted this guy's support. What's happened to the world when a Mormon starts following the words of a blatant con man?
 
2014-09-03 02:18:43 PM  
Why aren't there more Koch-like billionaires pouring money into politics?

WTF kind of bullshiat question is that?  There are lots more.
 
2014-09-03 02:19:21 PM  
ferretman:
Top donors:
https://www.opensecrets.org/overview/topcontribs.php


...with Democrat-funding Act Blue at the top, handing out about eleven times as much as Koch Industries.

Heck, the IBEW spends more direct money on politics than the Kochs do.

Dusk-You-n-Me:
Koch led donations, 2012: $400M
Soros led donations, 2012: $5M


That's hilarious. Someone at the Washington Post did a little research and added up every single political organization that's linked (in any way) to the Koch brothers, and pretended that all of those are "Koch led."

They seem to think that the US Chamber of Commerce, the National Federation of Independent Businesses, and the National Rifle Association are "Koch led" organizations.

Meanwhile, the Soros donations? That "$5 million" only includes Soros' direct political contributions for that year - while ignoring all of his indirect donations and all of the political groups he either founded or gives huge amounts of money to. Democracy Alliance, for example, which is dumping about $40 million into the 2014 elections. DA gives a lot of money to other groups, too, like Center for American Progress and Media Matters for America (which is how Soros managed to get away with the silly lie that he "never funded" those groups).

Funny how that "Soros led" money never got added in to the $5 million number...
 
2014-09-03 02:20:02 PM  

Baz744: No Such Agency: "The Revolution"?  What a joke.  You can't get three true revolutionaries - be they eco, neo-Nazi, Islamist or other - in a room without one being an undercover FBI agent.  Drones watch from the skies and the NSA monitors every electronic utterance.  The majority of the struggling proletariat have just enough in life to fear losing it all, as they are constantly reminded by the periodic examples made of those who transgress and are disproportionately punished.

The rich can piss off whoever they please.  Heads will not roll, tomorrow or ever.

And it's only getting worse as technology improves.


Well, the good news is, as the environment continues to collapse and we run out of the natural resources required to actually make and use all this technology, the money of the extremely rich will be increasingly worthless and as they divest themselves of their material possessions in order to survive they'll eventually become prey of the physically powerful when strength becomes the only attribute worth anything.
 
2014-09-03 02:21:54 PM  
Derp Brothers just get all the press. There are billionaires who care about the future, but not nearly enough.

Or they're just wasting their resources on commercial ventures like Paul Allen does. Because he has to make more money.
 
2014-09-03 02:22:51 PM  

EyeballKid: DGS: Mr. A is getting a kick out of this thread.

[i.forbesimg.com image 416x416]

I still can't believe Mitt Romney courted this guy's support. What's happened to the world when a Mormon starts following the words of a blatant con man?


*spit take*
 
2014-09-03 02:23:07 PM  

cirby: ..with Democrat-funding Act Blue at the top, handing out about eleven times as much as Koch Industries.

Heck, the IBEW spends more direct money on politics than the Kochs do.


you're saying a union with over half a million members and a fundraising org where anyone can raise money for the democratic party has spent more than 2 dudes? oh wait, you put a caveat in there with the electrical workers so they don't really count.
 
2014-09-03 02:23:31 PM  

cirby: Someone at the Washington Post did a little research and added up every single political organization that's linked (in any way) to the Koch brothers, and pretended that all of those are "Koch led."


They did? Missed that article.
 
2014-09-03 02:23:58 PM  

Rev. Skarekroe: Baz744: No Such Agency: "The Revolution"?  What a joke.  You can't get three true revolutionaries - be they eco, neo-Nazi, Islamist or other - in a room without one being an undercover FBI agent.  Drones watch from the skies and the NSA monitors every electronic utterance.  The majority of the struggling proletariat have just enough in life to fear losing it all, as they are constantly reminded by the periodic examples made of those who transgress and are disproportionately punished.

The rich can piss off whoever they please.  Heads will not roll, tomorrow or ever.

And it's only getting worse as technology improves.

Well, the good news is, as the environment continues to collapse and we run out of the natural resources required to actually make and use all this technology, the money of the extremely rich will be increasingly worthless and as they divest themselves of their material possessions in order to survive they'll eventually become prey of the physically powerful when strength becomes the only attribute worth anything.


You guys are real killjoys, you know that?
 
2014-09-03 02:27:28 PM  
moar Koch like billionaires? that "B" word means it's a short list Subby.

what i want to know is why aren't more middle and low income earners pouring money into politics?  they're the ones who aren't getting the representation they deserve are entitled to.
 
2014-09-03 02:30:42 PM  

Skarekrough: The Koch Brothers never built anything....they inherited it.  They were handed wealth and realized pretty early on that if they were going to keep it, and do so by being in the industries they are, they would need to be actively involved and engaged in all manners by which those industries are regarded and regulated.

It's like Mitt running for President.  No one really believes Mitt wants to be President....to him it's like the guy starting his own business in a small town joining the Rotary Club or Freemasons. It's an entry fee for bigger and better things.  He does a stint for 4 or 8 years and during that time his kids are sent around the world as "Goodwill Ambassadors" which will translate into business prospects after the big gig is up.  Mitt gets to go back to Utah, open a big office and run his industry with his family and get asked what he thinks about things now and again.


It isn't about gaining wealth or power anymore, it's about showing everyone how insanely wealthy and powerful they are. The Fox News propaganda machine is not to be taken lightly. Look at the 2012 presidential election. That election should never have been that close. In any 20th century election, or even earlier than that, Mitt Romney's chances at being president would have been torpedoed after any incident of his (the 47% speech, "binders full of women", pissing off the Brits during their Olympics), but instead, he had the power to press on.

They are bullies. And contrary to popular belief, bullies don't have too little confidence, they have too much confidence. Once we as a country stand up against them, saying "I'm not afraid of you anymore", they will stop.
 
2014-09-03 02:31:44 PM  
The really crazy thing -- if you're a Koch -- is how much their wealth has ballooned in the last 6 years.
 
2014-09-03 02:37:58 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: he had the power to press on.


wait, switch that...he had the press to power on.

and i agree, a good bias 24/7 new channel that reports in your favor regardless of anything, that's going to give you a bump, regardless of anything.
 
2014-09-03 02:45:54 PM  

Isitoveryet: Bith Set Me Up: he had the power to press on.

wait, switch that...he had the press to power on.

and i agree, a good bias 24/7 new channel that reports in your favor regardless of anything, that's going to give you a bump, regardless of anything.


It works both ways.
 
2014-09-03 02:49:02 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: Skarekrough: The Koch Brothers never built anything....they inherited it.  They were handed wealth and realized pretty early on that if they were going to keep it, and do so by being in the industries they are, they would need to be actively involved and engaged in all manners by which those industries are regarded and regulated.

It's like Mitt running for President.  No one really believes Mitt wants to be President....to him it's like the guy starting his own business in a small town joining the Rotary Club or Freemasons. It's an entry fee for bigger and better things.  He does a stint for 4 or 8 years and during that time his kids are sent around the world as "Goodwill Ambassadors" which will translate into business prospects after the big gig is up.  Mitt gets to go back to Utah, open a big office and run his industry with his family and get asked what he thinks about things now and again.

It isn't about gaining wealth or power anymore, it's about showing everyone how insanely wealthy and powerful they are. The Fox News propaganda machine is not to be taken lightly. Look at the 2012 presidential election. That election should never have been that close. In any 20th century election, or even earlier than that, Mitt Romney's chances at being president would have been torpedoed after any incident of his (the 47% speech, "binders full of women", pissing off the Brits during their Olympics), but instead, he had the power to press on.

They are bullies. And contrary to popular belief, bullies don't have too little confidence, they have too much confidence. Once we as a country stand up against them, saying "I'm not afraid of you anymore", they will stop.


Yes.

On phone so no link, but YouTube "We are not descended from fearful men" and it will help.
 
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