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(Chron)   And the Astros scapegoat this season is Bo Porter   (blog.chron.com) divider line 32
    More: Interesting, Bo Porter, Tom Lawless, Astros, Jeff Luhnow, Adam Everett, interim manager, hitting coach, Major League Baseball  
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352 clicks; posted to Sports » on 02 Sep 2014 at 12:17 AM (7 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



32 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-09-01 08:36:02 PM  
I don't care what kind of incentives or pay is involved with letting a manager finish a season, I will NEVER understand firing managers this late in a season.  And if it's pay-based, it's even dumber because given the bump you have to give the bench manager when you name him interim manager, you're saving maybe 2/3 of a month of a salary, so maaaybe breaking six figures (yes, higher for better managers, but still).  When you're making that in one day's admission and park sales, it's so not even worth it.
 
2014-09-01 09:49:18 PM  
I don't think it counts as scapegoating if the team is bad on purpose.
 
2014-09-02 12:25:25 AM  

FriarReb98: I don't care what kind of incentives or pay is involved with letting a manager finish a season, I will NEVER understand firing managers this late in a season.  And if it's pay-based, it's even dumber because given the bump you have to give the bench manager when you name him interim manager, you're saving maybe 2/3 of a month of a salary, so maaaybe breaking six figures (yes, higher for better managers, but still).  When you're making that in one day's admission and park sales, it's so not even worth it.


I can see bringing in the new guy for the end of the season Get him some time to get into the groove in real games before the start of the next season. If you are just bringing in some interim guy and replacing him once the season is over, then yeah it is stupid.
 
2014-09-02 12:53:06 AM  

FreakinB: I don't think it counts as scapegoating if the team is bad on purpose.


For 20+ years?
 
2014-09-02 02:13:52 AM  

FriarReb98: I don't care what kind of incentives or pay is involved with letting a manager finish a season, I will NEVER understand firing managers this late in a season.  And if it's pay-based, it's even dumber because given the bump you have to give the bench manager when you name him interim manager, you're saving maybe 2/3 of a month of a salary, so maaaybe breaking six figures (yes, higher for better managers, but still).  When you're making that in one day's admission and park sales, it's so not even worth it.


Maybe being a loser wasnt the only thing the owner didnt like about Bo Porter. maybe their personalities clashed and he was only waiting to choose the interim coach to fire Bo the loser. In that case maybe the cost of firing was a bargain to the owner.
 
2014-09-02 04:17:06 AM  
I would like to announce for financial reasons that I am taking myself out of the running to be the Astros' new manager.  I got an interview at Starbucks.
 
2014-09-02 06:59:48 AM  
Hopefully, Wash will join him amongst the unemployed at the end of the season.  Not so much for the injury-fest that was this season as the fades in the last two.
 
2014-09-02 08:12:58 AM  

TheOther: Hopefully, Wash will join him amongst the unemployed at the end of the season.  Not so much for the injury-fest that was this season as the fades in the last two.


Washington should've been out after he let his team know that he doesn't trust them to get one out when they needed it most. Seriously, they should have fired him the instant the fourth intentional ball to Pujols crossed the plate. Right there in front of everybody. It's the dumbest farking management decision I've ever seen, and I spent ten years watching Dusty Baker's Giants.
 
2014-09-02 08:49:46 AM  
From the article:  Nolan Ryan will be involved in the hire of a new manager.

Isn't Nolan Ryan the owner of, you know, the Rangers?  Who happen to be in the same division as the Astros?  Am I the only one who finds that a little odd?
 
2014-09-02 08:54:41 AM  

erupt2001: From the article:  Nolan Ryan will be involved in the hire of a new manager.

Isn't Nolan Ryan the owner of, you know, the Rangers?  Who happen to be in the same division as the Astros?  Am I the only one who finds that a little odd?


Nolan Ryan left the Rangers last year and then signed on with the Astros in a front office role:

http://espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/story/_/id/9839958/texas-rangers-ceo-n ol an-ryan-steps-down
 
2014-09-02 09:00:18 AM  

gunsmack: FreakinB: I don't think it counts as scapegoating if the team is bad on purpose.

For 20+ years?


False! We have been bad for the last few years on purpose. Ever since Drayton sold the team.
 
2014-09-02 09:10:45 AM  

FriarReb98: I don't care what kind of incentives or pay is involved with letting a manager finish a season, I will NEVER understand firing managers this late in a season.


Give someone who may be the manager next year a trial run.
 
2014-09-02 09:27:03 AM  
This has nothing at all to do with the team's record. This was more about the Mark Appel bullpen fiasco and things like that.
 
2014-09-02 09:28:09 AM  

gunsmack: FreakinB: I don't think it counts as scapegoating if the team is bad on purpose.

For 20+ years?


They were in the World Series in '05.
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My first guess for replacement would be Craig Biggio.
 
2014-09-02 09:56:54 AM  
I had been reading there were problems between Bo and Luhnow, kinda like Moneyball's Billy Beane and Art situation.

I'm kinda happy they ended the relationship soon after.  What's the point of a disgruntled manager?  Get him out of the way now so you can actively recruit a replacement.
 
2014-09-02 10:14:02 AM  

FriarReb98: I don't care what kind of incentives or pay is involved with letting a manager finish a season, I will NEVER understand firing managers this late in a season.  And if it's pay-based, it's even dumber because given the bump you have to give the bench manager when you name him interim manager, you're saving maybe 2/3 of a month of a salary, so maaaybe breaking six figures (yes, higher for better managers, but still).  When you're making that in one day's admission and park sales, it's so not even worth it.


They fired him because he picked a fight with the general manager in the last week and basically made it "him or me".  Never do that, because sometimes they don't pick you.
 
2014-09-02 10:36:39 AM  

erupt2001: From the article:  Nolan Ryan will be involved in the hire of a new manager.

Isn't Nolan Ryan the owner of, you know, the Rangers?  Who happen to be in the same division as the Astros?  Am I the only one who finds that a little odd?


You know, in situations like this, where a piece of information comes across as weird and/or confusing, I find that a quick visit to Google helps. It helps me avoid posting things comments like... yours.
 
2014-09-02 11:43:34 AM  

MooseBayou: gunsmack: FreakinB: I don't think it counts as scapegoating if the team is bad on purpose.

For 20+ years?

They were in the World Series in '05.

My first guess for replacement would be Craig Biggio.


Of all the players during the good years, I thought Ausmus would end up at the helm.
 
2014-09-02 11:46:57 AM  
You fire him now because most reputable replacements will not interview with a team that currently has a manager under contract.

/Some sort of managers fraternity thing going on
//Buck Showalter however doesnt care if you have team of players who really need to hate a guy now, he is your man
 
2014-09-02 11:52:29 AM  

erupt2001: From the article:  Nolan Ryan will be involved in the hire of a new manager.

Isn't Nolan Ryan the owner of, you know, the Rangers?  Who happen to be in the same division as the Astros?  Am I the only one who finds that a little odd?


Whoops
 
2014-09-02 12:06:04 PM  
I believe Luhnow's a smart guy and hus plan is extremely bold and will probably pay off. That said, his people skills seem bad, and that may be starting to hurt the team. Lots of reports of clubhouse unrest at all levels, the Appel fiasco, the Aiken clusterfark, firing Bo Porter. All explicable, but all awkwardly handled and mostly avoidable.
 
2014-09-02 12:11:59 PM  

A Houston Chronicler: MooseBayou: gunsmack: FreakinB: I don't think it counts as scapegoating if the team is bad on purpose.

For 20+ years?

They were in the World Series in '05.

My first guess for replacement would be Craig Biggio.

Of all the players during the good years, I thought Ausmus would end up at the helm.


He's kinda busy already. Plus Biggio did come up as a catcher, which apparently is the main prerequisite these days to be an MLB manager.
 
2014-09-02 12:18:55 PM  

neon_god: I believe Luhnow's a smart guy and hus plan is extremely bold and will probably pay off. That said, his people skills seem bad, and that may be starting to hurt the team. Lots of reports of clubhouse unrest at all levels, the Appel fiasco, the Aiken clusterfark, firing Bo Porter. All explicable, but all awkwardly handled and mostly avoidable.


I find it hard to tell how much of the problem is "bad people skills" and how much is "people will be mad at major change no matter what." To take the Appel thing, I don't really see how explaining things better would've stopped that from happening...but then again, I don't fully understand why it was a problem to begin with.
 
2014-09-02 12:34:21 PM  

DeWayne Mann: neon_god: I believe Luhnow's a smart guy and hus plan is extremely bold and will probably pay off. That said, his people skills seem bad, and that may be starting to hurt the team. Lots of reports of clubhouse unrest at all levels, the Appel fiasco, the Aiken clusterfark, firing Bo Porter. All explicable, but all awkwardly handled and mostly avoidable.

I find it hard to tell how much of the problem is "bad people skills" and how much is "people will be mad at major change no matter what." To take the Appel thing, I don't really see how explaining things better would've stopped that from happening...but then again, I don't fully understand why it was a problem to begin with.


It's impossible to say how much is his fault without knowing more than we ever will about internal Astros stuff. It just seems that PR stuff and politics in the organization go badly for Houston unusually often. I'm not saying he can't do the job, but I'm starting to have my doubts.
 
2014-09-02 12:45:07 PM  

DeWayne Mann: neon_god: I believe Luhnow's a smart guy and hus plan is extremely bold and will probably pay off. That said, his people skills seem bad, and that may be starting to hurt the team. Lots of reports of clubhouse unrest at all levels, the Appel fiasco, the Aiken clusterfark, firing Bo Porter. All explicable, but all awkwardly handled and mostly avoidable.

I find it hard to tell how much of the problem is "bad people skills" and how much is "people will be mad at major change no matter what." To take the Appel thing, I don't really see how explaining things better would've stopped that from happening...but then again, I don't fully understand why it was a problem to begin with.


Having just read about that a little, I can't for the life of me get why so many players were pissed off.  Is it a South/Southwest thing to be angry over nothing?  That's Diamondbacks-esque.
 
2014-09-02 06:03:30 PM  

A Houston Chronicler: gunsmack: FreakinB: I don't think it counts as scapegoating if the team is bad on purpose.

For 20+ years?

False! We have been bad for the last few years on purpose. Ever since Drayton sold the team.


This is the best record the team has had after Labor Day since 2010.  Even then, you would have to go back to 2007 (I think) and 2005 for the last times the Astros were over .500 at this point.  They have more wins now than the team has had over the prior three years at the end of the season.

/I think the new owner (Jim Crane) decided to build up the farm system in exchange to a few bad seasons
//The 2015 will tell whether or not that was a good idea
///If it works, the Astros could be contenders for the next few years
 
2014-09-02 07:15:43 PM  

Dafatone: Having just read about that a little, I can't for the life of me get why so many players were pissed off.


Keeping in mind that I find the entire situation completely moronic, my understanding is as follows. There are 3 major complaints:

1. The major league (bullpen) mound is JUST for major leaguers. Minor leaguers don't get to use it until they pay their dues. In other words, this was a bit of an undeserved award to Appel...
2....who was already getting an "undeserved" award in a promotion to AA. That's, of course, a really simplistic way of looking at things, but...players. They see a 2-5 record with a 9.74 ERA and say "Oh he's terrible" and that's all the thought they'll give.
3. The fact that anyone from the major league club was spending time on a minor league player just "proves" that the front office doesn't care at all about the major league club.

Now, the last complaint is sort of true....but I have no idea why it came as such a surprise.

But yeah, all together, it's a whole lot of dumb, and I really don't see where people skills would've changed much.
 
2014-09-02 08:45:18 PM  

DeWayne Mann: Dafatone: Having just read about that a little, I can't for the life of me get why so many players were pissed off.

Keeping in mind that I find the entire situation completely moronic, my understanding is as follows. There are 3 major complaints:

1. The major league (bullpen) mound is JUST for major leaguers. Minor leaguers don't get to use it until they pay their dues. In other words, this was a bit of an undeserved award to Appel...
2....who was already getting an "undeserved" award in a promotion to AA. That's, of course, a really simplistic way of looking at things, but...players. They see a 2-5 record with a 9.74 ERA and say "Oh he's terrible" and that's all the thought they'll give.
3. The fact that anyone from the major league club was spending time on a minor league player just "proves" that the front office doesn't care at all about the major league club.

Now, the last complaint is sort of true....but I have no idea why it came as such a surprise.

But yeah, all together, it's a whole lot of dumb, and I really don't see where people skills would've changed much.


I wasn't quite aware of 1.  I kinda get it.  Do major league fields have other facilities for throwing, though?  Seems silly to say that Appel can't throw for scouts/coaches anywhere in the park.  Obviously the field mound is right out.  If there's a practice pen somewhere, okay.  If not, what else is he supposed to do?

2 is... since when do major league players care what happens in the minors, especially an A to AA move?  I can get feeling like he didn't earn it, but whatever.  It's not like he was called to the majors and took someone's spot with terrible numbers.

3 is especially silly.  Or at least, if you're going to be pissed about it, complain about the owners, not Appel.  It's not like he did anything wrong.
 
2014-09-02 08:54:07 PM  

Dafatone: DeWayne Mann: Dafatone: Having just read about that a little, I can't for the life of me get why so many players were pissed off.

Keeping in mind that I find the entire situation completely moronic, my understanding is as follows. There are 3 major complaints:

1. The major league (bullpen) mound is JUST for major leaguers. Minor leaguers don't get to use it until they pay their dues. In other words, this was a bit of an undeserved award to Appel...
2....who was already getting an "undeserved" award in a promotion to AA. That's, of course, a really simplistic way of looking at things, but...players. They see a 2-5 record with a 9.74 ERA and say "Oh he's terrible" and that's all the thought they'll give.
3. The fact that anyone from the major league club was spending time on a minor league player just "proves" that the front office doesn't care at all about the major league club.

Now, the last complaint is sort of true....but I have no idea why it came as such a surprise.

But yeah, all together, it's a whole lot of dumb, and I really don't see where people skills would've changed much.

I wasn't quite aware of 1.  I kinda get it.  Do major league fields have other facilities for throwing, though?  Seems silly to say that Appel can't throw for scouts/coaches anywhere in the park.  Obviously the field mound is right out.  If there's a practice pen somewhere, okay.  If not, what else is he supposed to do?

2 is... since when do major league players care what happens in the minors, especially an A to AA move?  I can get feeling like he didn't earn it, but whatever.  It's not like he was called to the majors and took someone's spot with terrible numbers.

3 is especially silly.  Or at least, if you're going to be pissed about it, complain about the owners, not Appel.  It's not like he did anything wrong.


For number 2, I can understand why they think that way.

They had to earn their way up each stage and view him as skipping that. In addition, they know and have known people to wallow in the minors and seeing someone who doesn't appear to be deserving skip ahead isn't going to make them happy.

It isn't rational and is stupid, but there are understandable reasons.
 
2014-09-02 08:56:23 PM  

Dafatone: I wasn't quite aware of 1. I kinda get it. Do major league fields have other facilities for throwing, though? Seems silly to say that Appel can't throw for scouts/coaches anywhere in the park. Obviously the field mound is right out. If there's a practice pen somewhere, okay. If not, what else is he supposed to do?

2 is... since when do major league players care what happens in the minors, especially an A to AA move? I can get feeling like he didn't earn it, but whatever. It's not like he was called to the majors and took someone's spot with terrible numbers.

3 is especially silly. Or at least, if you're going to be pissed about it, complain about the owners, not Appel. It's not like he did anything wrong.


See, your problem is you've put way more thought into this than any of the players (or Bo Porter) did.
 
2014-09-02 08:57:44 PM  
I can't understand why the manager / head coach is the one who always gets fired.  It's his jackass
players who screwed up; why does the coach have to take a dive?  (Because it's easier to fire one
coach than an entire team, I guess.)
 
2014-09-02 09:42:39 PM  

Li'l Robbie: I can't understand why the manager / head coach is the one who always gets fired.  It's his jackass
players who screwed up; why does the coach have to take a dive?  (Because it's easier to fire one
coach than an entire team, I guess.)


Firing the team puts the blame on the dumbass who signed them, who appears to be catastrophically unable to do better than what he's already done.  They dicked around their first-rounder and failed to sign him and some other prospects as a result.  Their top prospect has had more strikeouts than hits  in the minors.  Nobody's done that and been called up since Rob Deer.

Firing the manager relieves the pressure that the GM faces.  A drunk bum under highway 59 could scout and negotiate better and could probably even manage the team to a better record than the one the Rangers have.  They went cheap on the Porter hiring but he knows his ass from a hole in the ground, so clearly they've got to go even cheaper.
 
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