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(The New York Times)   Israel celebrates rocket-free weekend by seizing another 1,000 acres of land in Bethlehem, citing need for places to stay that aren't mangers   (nytimes.com) divider line 362
    More: Asinine, West Bank, Bethlehem, Jewish settlements, Israel Radio, public land, Politics of Israel, Western Allies, land claim  
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1510 clicks; posted to Politics » on 31 Aug 2014 at 8:33 PM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-31 06:21:06 PM  
Yes, let's punish the West Bank for the rockets being fired out of Gaza.
 
2014-08-31 06:34:21 PM  
A culture of rule-breakers who don't want to follow the established ways of the world:

img.fark.net

You go down the slide, on the inside!
 
2014-08-31 07:06:03 PM  
It's not like they're actually people
 
2014-08-31 07:13:11 PM  

Arkanaut: Yes, let's punish the West Bank for the rockets being fired out of Gaza.


It's the Israeli way. They need SOME kind of justification.
 
2014-08-31 08:34:38 PM  
another 1,000 acres of land

After all, they need their Lebensraum.
 
2014-08-31 08:37:12 PM  

whidbey: another 1,000 acres of land

After all, they need their Lebensraum.


You know, this reminds me of something. Abused children will often grow up to be abusive to children. Looks like Israel is all grown up now.

/They blow up so fast!
 
2014-08-31 08:39:25 PM  
Israeli's are jumping for joy, like when that nuclear scientist got blown up with all the other people on an Iranian flight
 
2014-08-31 08:40:32 PM  

InterruptingQuirk: A culture of rule-breakers who don't want to follow the established ways of the world:

[img.fark.net image 327x519]

You go down the slide, on the inside!


Looks like they're begging for some white phosphorus to be dumped on them.
 
2014-08-31 08:44:00 PM  
 the Israeli authorities arrested a Palestinian who was accused of being the prime mover in the kidnapping and killing of the teenagers. The timing of the land appropriation suggested that it was meant as a kind of compensation for the settlers and punishment for the Palestinians.

So in order to punish an alleged kidnapper, you screw all the Palestinians?

That's some "justice" system you have there, Bibi.
 
2014-08-31 08:45:23 PM  
"The darkness drops again but now I know

That twenty centuries of stony sleep

Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,

Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?"
 
2014-08-31 08:45:23 PM  
sigh
 
2014-08-31 08:53:18 PM  
I think I saw this on Zillow.
 
2014-08-31 08:57:42 PM  
Sadly Hamas has pretty much guaranteed the as assholes in Likud will remain in power for the foreseeable future. On the flip side the assholes in Likud are helping to insure Hamas will remain in power.
 
2014-08-31 08:58:59 PM  
Israel's words: "We can't make peace with the Palestinians because they want to use rockets to wipe Israel off the map."
Israel's actions: "Palestinians can't make peace with us because we're wiping Palestine off the map with eminent domain."

Tell me again how both sides are not exactly the same?
 
2014-08-31 08:59:25 PM  
I can only imagine how much the anti-Israel farkers in here are going to have a field day with this. It's not a good move for Israel and I'm disappointed in this decision. I wonder if the Israeli government has reached the tipping point of figuring, hey, if people are going to condemn us no matter what we do, we may as well get something out of it.
 
2014-08-31 09:01:29 PM  

Karac: Israel's words: "We can't make peace with the Palestinians because they want to use rockets to wipe Israel off the map."
Israel's actions: "Palestinians can't make peace with us because we're wiping Palestine off the map with eminent domain."

Tell me again how both sides are not exactly the same?


If Hamas declared an end to the rocket attacks, condemned all acts of terrorism and asked for negotiations to resume, Israel would respond and peace would follow. One of the many differences between them is that Hamas isn't interested in peace and will never do that.
 
2014-08-31 09:02:09 PM  

Karac: Tell me again how both sides are not exactly the same?


One side gets billions in funding from the U.S.
 
2014-08-31 09:02:42 PM  

idesofmarch: Karac: Israel's words: "We can't make peace with the Palestinians because they want to use rockets to wipe Israel off the map."
Israel's actions: "Palestinians can't make peace with us because we're wiping Palestine off the map with eminent domain."

Tell me again how both sides are not exactly the same?

If Hamas declared an end to the rocket attacks, condemned all acts of terrorism and asked for negotiations to resume, Israel would respond and peace would follow. One of the many differences between them is that Hamas isn't interested in peace and will never do that.


Oh look. A challenger appears.
 
2014-08-31 09:04:57 PM  

idesofmarch: Karac: Israel's words: "We can't make peace with the Palestinians because they want to use rockets to wipe Israel off the map."
Israel's actions: "Palestinians can't make peace with us because we're wiping Palestine off the map with eminent domain."

Tell me again how both sides are not exactly the same?

If Hamas declared an end to the rocket attacks, condemned all acts of terrorism and asked for negotiations to resume, Israel would respond and peace would follow. One of the many differences between them is that Hamas isn't interested in peace and will never do that.


Then why does Israel keep stealing (yes, stealing is exactly what they are doing) land on the West Bank which has a government that does not attack them, condemns terrorism, and is virtually begging for negotiations? Israel may declare that it wants peace, but it's actions on the West Bank consistently contradict that.

/Yes, Hamas is also a nasty organization, but Israel has the power in the relationship and should be held to a higher standard.
 
2014-08-31 09:06:57 PM  

idesofmarch: It's not a good move for Israel and I'm disappointed in this decision.


Anti-semite
 
2014-08-31 09:07:32 PM  

idesofmarch: Karac: Israel's words: "We can't make peace with the Palestinians because they want to use rockets to wipe Israel off the map."
Israel's actions: "Palestinians can't make peace with us because we're wiping Palestine off the map with eminent domain."

Tell me again how both sides are not exactly the same?

If Hamas declared an end to the rocket attacks, condemned all acts of terrorism and asked for negotiations to resume, Israel would respond and peace would follow. One of the many differences between them is that Hamas isn't interested in peace and will never do that.


No, Israel would not. Israel would just claim Hamas is lying, and keep doing whatever they damn well please, because Israel's government is currently just as full of bloodthirsty warmongers as Hamas.
 
2014-08-31 09:09:45 PM  
Something, something -Never Again!!!!

/shuts down most criticism
 
2014-08-31 09:10:14 PM  

idesofmarch: Karac: Israel's words: "We can't make peace with the Palestinians because they want to use rockets to wipe Israel off the map."
Israel's actions: "Palestinians can't make peace with us because we're wiping Palestine off the map with eminent domain."

Tell me again how both sides are not exactly the same?

If Hamas declared an end to the rocket attacks, condemned all acts of terrorism and asked for negotiations to resume, Israel would respond and peace would follow. One of the many differences between them is that Hamas isn't interested in peace and will never do that.


Tell me, how does taking this land from the West Bank help Israel?  By what right do they assert ownership?

If Israel truly wanted to get rid of Hamas, then they'd stop doing things like this to drive the Palestinians to support Hamas.
 
2014-08-31 09:11:44 PM  

idesofmarch: I wonder if the Israeli government has reached the tipping point of figuring, hey, if people are going to condemn us no matter what we do, we may as well get something out of it.


And they are doing something different than they have been doing for the last 30 years or so?
 
2014-08-31 09:15:46 PM  
The article indicates this is retaliatory for the Israeli teenagers who were murdered in the area. As I recall they bulldozed the homes of dozens of Palestinian suspects when this occurred, in violation of all due-process.

So does that mean the three Israelis who confessed to burning alive a Palestinian teenager a week later are going to have their homes bulldozed? Or do they get the full fruits of due-process?

Since we are literally giving 1000 acres of land to the Israelis for their three murdered teenagers. Are the Palestinians getting 333 acres for their murdered teenager?

Israeli defenders I want to know!
 
2014-08-31 09:17:24 PM  
Israelis can be such Nazis some times.
 
2014-08-31 09:22:41 PM  

gadian: Israelis can be such Nazis some times.


Don't say that, man. That makes some people very very angry. And you wouldn't like to see them when they're very very angry.
 
2014-08-31 09:29:13 PM  
This makes sense to me. Hamas wants to make a victory out of killing Israelis and living to do it again. Israel seizes 1000 acres.  How'd that work out for you, Hamas? Good?
 
2014-08-31 09:34:17 PM  

Brontes: Israeli's are jumping for joy, like when that nuclear scientist got blown up with all the other people on an Iranian flight


No doubt some right-wing assholes in Israel are, but the Israelis quoted in this article aren't.

Believe it or not, there's a wide range of political opinion in Israel, and a lot of people there are disgusted by this kind of sh*t.. Not everybody supports Likud or that horrible prick Netanyahu.
 
2014-08-31 09:34:43 PM  
Middle Eastern religious zealots seize territory in defiance of international pressure
 
2014-08-31 09:35:49 PM  

gadian: Israelis can be such Nazis some times.


"The future fascists will call themselves anti-fascists." - Winston Churchill
 
2014-08-31 09:36:47 PM  

Kumana Wanalaia: This makes sense to me. Hamas wants to make a victory out of killing Israelis and living to do it again. Israel seizes 1000 acres.  How'd that work out for you, Hamas? Good?


Seeing as how they took it from the West Bank and Hamas's Gaza Strip, I'd say Hamas will come out of this looking pretty good.  They personally don't lose anything, and a lot of the evil things they say Israel does ... well, it just did it again.
 
2014-08-31 09:46:24 PM  
This is obviously a bad move, but:

1) The Israelis are not Nazis, and people insinuating otherwise are halfwit assholes.  Nazis weren't Nazis because they annexed thousands of acres of foreign land.  They were Nazis because they killed millions of people.

Right now, as we type, the Russians are seizing far more territory, and nobody is calling them "Nazis" who are seeking "lebensraum."  (Rightfully so, because they're not Nazis, just like the Israelis aren't.)

2) FTA: "Interested parties have 45 days in which to register objections."

For some reason, this made me laugh darkly.

"Objection: You're stealing our land."

"... Any other objections?"
 
2014-08-31 09:47:06 PM  

idesofmarch: I can only imagine how much the anti-Israel farkers in here are going to have a field day with this. It's not a good move for Israel and I'm disappointed in this decision. I wonder if the Israeli government has reached the tipping point of figuring, hey, if people are going to condemn us no matter what we do, we may as well get something out of it.


Israel has been slowly taking land for as long as I can remember, it is the main reason why I'm critical of Israel. I don't see how peace is possible when they are constantly displacing the Palestinians. If a foreign power seizes property that is going to breed extremism. The Palestinian lands that remain are more cramped and more ghetto like every year. Israel wants the land, they don't want the people that are already on it.
 
2014-08-31 09:49:23 PM  

idesofmarch: I can only imagine how much the anti-Israel farkers in here are going to have a field day with this. It's not a good move for Israel and I'm disappointed in this decision. I wonder if the Israeli government has reached the tipping point of figuring, hey, if people are going to condemn us no matter what we do, we may as well get something out of it.


Only you could come up with that as a justification. And no, don't try calling a mere explanation.
 
2014-08-31 09:50:00 PM  

Captain Dan: This is obviously a bad move, but:

1) The Israelis are not Nazis, and people insinuating otherwise are halfwit assholes.  Nazis weren't Nazis because they annexed thousands of acres of foreign land.  They were Nazis because they killed millions of people.

Right now, as we type, the Russians are seizing far more territory, and nobody is calling them "Nazis" who are seeking "lebensraum."  (Rightfully so, because they're not Nazis, just like the Israelis aren't.)

2) FTA: "Interested parties have 45 days in which to register objections."

For some reason, this made me laugh darkly.

"Objection: You're stealing our land."

"... Any other objections?"


Nazi Germany showed you cannot subjugate or exterminate a people in a matter of years, because the world will catch on. But if you do it over generations, it's less noticeable, as America did it to the Indians, and Israel is doing to the Palestinians.
 
2014-08-31 09:52:18 PM  

Captain Dan: This is obviously a bad move, but:

1) The Israelis are not Nazis, and people insinuating otherwise are halfwit assholes.  Nazis weren't Nazis because they annexed thousands of acres of foreign land.  They were Nazis because they killed millions of people.


Actually, they were Nazis because they were right-wing fascists who used military force to annex foreign lands. But thanks for playing.

Right now, as we type, the Russians are seizing far more territory, and nobody is calling them "Nazis" who are seeking "lebensraum."  (Rightfully so, because they're not Nazis, just like the Israelis aren't.)

More like right now as we type, Captain Dan is attempting to make apologies for the Israelis and deflect the issue using false comparisons. And succeeding.
 
2014-08-31 09:53:01 PM  

idesofmarch: Karac: Israel's words: "We can't make peace with the Palestinians because they want to use rockets to wipe Israel off the map."
Israel's actions: "Palestinians can't make peace with us because we're wiping Palestine off the map with eminent domain."

Tell me again how both sides are not exactly the same?

If Hamas declared an end to the rocket attacks, condemned all acts of terrorism and asked for negotiations to resume, Israel would respond and peace would follow. One of the many differences between them is that Hamas isn't interested in peace and will never do that.


How bout Arabs to return and take possession of lands they had to flee? How about proportional representation in what Israel is calling a democratic republic? How bout ceasing occupation? Israel's not interested in making the tough decisions about the actual nature of their republic and the ideals they ostensibly espouse.
 
2014-08-31 09:53:52 PM  

idesofmarch: I can only imagine how much the anti-Israel farkers in here are going to have a field day with this. It's not a good move for Israel and I'm disappointed in this decision. I wonder if the Israeli government has reached the tipping point of figuring, hey, if people are going to condemn us no matter what we do, we may as well get something out of it.


But is anyone surprised?
 
2014-08-31 09:54:12 PM  

Captain Dan: Right now, as we type, the Russians are seizing far more territory, and nobody is calling them "Nazis" who are seeking "lebensraum."


Nobody is calling the Russians Nazis? Are you serious? The Nazi comparison has been made countless times in relation to Russian actions in Ukraine. I am not personally a big fan of calling anyone Nazis because comparisons only serve to minimize what the Nazis actually did, but to say nobody is making such statements about the Russians is patently false and utterly ridiculous. Did you just wake from a coma a couple of hours ago? That would be the only possible explanation for your statement.
 
2014-08-31 10:00:38 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: Nazi Germany showed you cannot subjugate or exterminate a people in a matter of years, because the world will catch on. But if you do it over generations, it's less noticeable, as America did it to the Indians, and Israel is doing to the Palestinians.


Israel is subjugating the Palestinians, but they're not trying to exterminate them.  If you really believed otherwise, you'd have to conclude that the Israelis were spectacularly incompetent at it, because the Palestinian population has steadily grown for decades.

Let's stay in reality, people.

The settlements are bad, worthy of condemnation.  Going off into fantasy land about an incipient Fourth Reich only destroys your credibility when you do (reasonably) condemn the settlements.
 
2014-08-31 10:04:34 PM  

Thrag: Nobody is calling the Russians Nazis? Are you serious? The Nazi comparison has been made countless times in relation to Russian actions in Ukraine. I am not personally a big fan of calling anyone Nazis because comparisons only serve to minimize what the Nazis actually did, but to say nobody is making such statements about the Russians is patently false and utterly ridiculous. Did you just wake from a coma a couple of hours ago? That would be the only possible explanation for your statement.


Can you please provide evidence of that?  I don't doubt you, but I just haven't seen the "Russians are acting like Nazis" accusations.
 
2014-08-31 10:04:50 PM  

Captain Dan: Going off into fantasy land about an incipient Fourth Reich only destroys your credibility when you do (reasonably) condemn the settlements.


Except when the parallels are there and easily recognizable. Except to those who would make apologies for them.
 
2014-08-31 10:09:00 PM  

eiger: Then why does Israel keep stealing (yes, stealing is exactly what they are doing) land on the West Bank which has a government that does not attack them, condemns terrorism, and is virtually begging for negotiations? Israel may declare that it wants peace, but it's actions on the West Bank consistently contradict that.


Karac: Tell me, how does taking this land from the West Bank help Israel?


Probably because there are some assholes in the Israeli government, just like there are in every single government, and sometimes they make bad decisions. No government or country on Earth is perfect - to expect Israel to be is to hold them to an unfair standard. I said flat out I'm not happy with this move, and hopefully they reverse course in the future.

LordJiro: No, Israel would not. Israel would just claim Hamas is lying, and keep doing whatever they damn well please, because Israel's government is currently just as full of bloodthirsty warmongers as Hamas.


You're deluded. Israel has wanted peace since 1948. A realistic chance at that would be a really big deal for them.

Alunan: As I recall they bulldozed the homes of dozens of Palestinian suspects when this occurred, in violation of all due-process.


Do you have a source for that? Or is that something somebody said, with no evidence to back it up.

rzrwiresunrise: How bout Arabs to return and take possession of lands they had to flee? How about proportional representation in what Israel is calling a democratic republic?


How about no? Israel is not going to become an Arab state - it would defeat the point of establishing Israel in the first place. When Gaza shows that it can peacefully coexist with Israel, it will get its own state free of occupation. Unfortunately, as long as Hamas is in charge, and they continue to convince the Palestinians that it's more important to die killing Jews than to live in peace, that day will not come.
 
2014-08-31 10:09:48 PM  

Captain Dan: Bith Set Me Up: Nazi Germany showed you cannot subjugate or exterminate a people in a matter of years, because the world will catch on. But if you do it over generations, it's less noticeable, as America did it to the Indians, and Israel is doing to the Palestinians.

Israel is subjugating the Palestinians, but they're not trying to exterminate them.  If you really believed otherwise, you'd have to conclude that the Israelis were spectacularly incompetent at it, because the Palestinian population has steadily grown for decades.

Let's stay in reality, people.

The settlements are bad, worthy of condemnation.  Going off into fantasy land about an incipient Fourth Reich only destroys your credibility when you do (reasonably) condemn the settlements.


So captain let us assume you are correct. What living conditions will the Palestinians face in the next decade?

Either Isreal hasn't thought this all the way through, or they are hoping for a mass exodus or it's going to look more Nazi like every year.
 
2014-08-31 10:11:14 PM  

idesofmarch: LordJiro: No, Israel would not. Israel would just claim Hamas is lying, and keep doing whatever they damn well please, because Israel's government is currently just as full of bloodthirsty warmongers as Hamas.


You're deluded. Israel has wanted peace since 1948. A realistic chance at that would be a really big deal for them.


Israel has sabotaged just as many peace deals as Hamas. They don't want peace, they want a permanent enemy that will keep them in power, just like Hamas.

The Israeli and Palestinian civilians are just pawns in a political dick-waving contest. Neither side gives a flying fark about them.
 
2014-08-31 10:11:45 PM  

idesofmarch: Probably because there are some assholes in the Israeli government, just like there are in every single government, and sometimes they make bad decisions.


lulz

How about no? Israel is not going to become an Arab state - it would defeat the point of establishing Israel in the first place

Zionism should be defeated.
 
2014-08-31 10:15:40 PM  

LordJiro: They don't want peace, they want a permanent enemy that will keep them in power, just like Hamas.


Did you actually think that line through before you posted it? I mean, wow - do you think Israel would *lose* power in peace time? That's some grade-A derp, dude. Israel has a fantastic economy and the support of some of the most powerful countries in the world. Do you think peace would somehow threaten that? Seriously, please explain. Without a war to fight, think of all the funds that could be diverted from its military and into social projects - projects that will help Arabs too. Do you think *those* would weaken the country? I fail to grasp your logic.
 
2014-08-31 10:16:29 PM  
While Bethlehem was originally a Caanaanite city, it was an Israelite/Jewish city before being taken over by the Romans and then later the Muslims.

So much of that area has changed hands so many times over history that it's hard to say who the rightful owners of the land are.  Given it's strong connections with Christianity as the birthplace of Jesus, it does seem more 'right' for Israel to control it than the Palestinians.

The again, the city apparently had a majority Christian population as recently as the 40s, but has become Muslim majority since then.  There seems to be some dispute about whether that decline is due to Palestinian forces treating the Christian population badly, or if it's due to the Israeli blockade making life difficult and thus people leaving for better opportunities elsewhere.
 
2014-08-31 10:17:05 PM  

Captain Dan: Thrag: Nobody is calling the Russians Nazis? Are you serious? The Nazi comparison has been made countless times in relation to Russian actions in Ukraine. I am not personally a big fan of calling anyone Nazis because comparisons only serve to minimize what the Nazis actually did, but to say nobody is making such statements about the Russians is patently false and utterly ridiculous. Did you just wake from a coma a couple of hours ago? That would be the only possible explanation for your statement.

Can you please provide evidence of that?  I don't doubt you, but I just haven't seen the "Russians are acting like Nazis" accusations.


Will tons of images of Putin as Hitler (i.e. "Putler") do?

How about former Sec. of State Hilary Clinton comparing Putin's actions to the Nazis

Or the German finance minister

I could go on for a while, even when I'm only searching for articles that had fark threads
 
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