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(Salon)   An abortion provider speaks out about the stigma of her job, the constant fear of violent protestors, and what it was like "coming out" and admitting her profession   (salon.com) divider line 156
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2601 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Aug 2014 at 1:12 PM (2 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-31 12:12:04 PM
If that doesn't work out I think there are plenty of positions available in the Vatican's "killing for Jesus in war is OK" department.
 
2014-08-31 12:23:37 PM
I almost cried reading that. Id like to buy that doctor a beer/wine.
 
2014-08-31 12:42:20 PM
But now they make women suffer by waiting until the time they have to deliver a dead child. You - and I - can only imagine the heartbreak associated with that process.

BUT THAT DEAD CHILD IS A GIFT FROM GOD. CHERISH THAT CORPSE. CHERISH IT!!!
 
2014-08-31 01:13:46 PM
I support the use of the HERO tag for this one.
 
2014-08-31 01:16:22 PM
Did she work for Kermit Gosnell?
 
2014-08-31 01:26:16 PM
Horrific. I will pray for her conversion.
 
2014-08-31 01:26:40 PM
/pointcounterpoint.jpg
 
2014-08-31 01:27:46 PM
No one has opposed the removing a dead fetus.
If a law were proposed banning abortion with the exceptions of rape, incest, and health of the mother, or even anything before the third trimester it would be voted against by people like this.

This is a about a right to murder inconvenient children. My second child is due this month. She kicks, she sleeps, she responds to stimuli and she is completely viable. If someone causes her to die right now it is murder. Anyone who "debates" that is a deluded psychopath with the medical knowledge of a retarded hamster.
 
2014-08-31 01:29:59 PM

edmo: If that doesn't work out I think there are plenty of positions available in the Vatican's "killing for Jesus in war is OK" department.


That office hasn't existed since the 1500's. It got rolled into the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Which you might know as its original name, the Holy Office of the Inquisition. Pope Benedict (yes, the German one that retired recently) was the head of that office before he got elected pope.
 
2014-08-31 01:30:36 PM
"Coming out?" Was she born a reproductive healthcare provider?
 
2014-08-31 01:33:02 PM

Tingle007: No one has opposed the removing a dead fetus.
If a law were proposed banning abortion with the exceptions of rape, incest, and health of the mother, or even anything before the third trimester it would be voted against by people like this.

This is a about a right to murder inconvenient children. My second child is due this month. She kicks, she sleeps, she responds to stimuli and she is completely viable. If someone causes her to die right now it is murder. Anyone who "debates" that is a deluded psychopath with the medical knowledge of a retarded hamster.


I don't debate whether or not it is murder.  The semantics don't matter.  It is alive, and if you want to call it murder to abort it, I'll agree.  It is murder.

The question is, under what circumstances should we be allowed to murder.  After all, it isn't ANY LESS murder if it caused by rape or incest.  It isn't any less murder if the child threatens the health of the mother.  It's either murder or it isn't.  You've established that it is murder.  You've also established that you support the right of the Mother to commit murder (or have a doctor commit murder on her behalf) in some cases.

So the debate is just about when it is okay to commit murder.  No need for anyone to be a deluded psychopath.
 
TWX
2014-08-31 01:33:07 PM

iheartscotch: edmo: If that doesn't work out I think there are plenty of positions available in the Vatican's "killing for Jesus in war is OK" department.

That office hasn't existed since the 1500's. It got rolled into the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Which you might know as its original name, the Holy Office of the Inquisition. Pope Benedict (yes, the German one that retired recently) was the head of that office before he got elected pope.


You mean, Josef "ve haf vays of makink you tahlk" Ratzinger?
 
2014-08-31 01:33:48 PM

Tingle007: No one has opposed the removing a dead fetus.
If a law were proposed banning abortion with the exceptions of rape, incest, and health of the mother, or even anything before the third trimester it would be voted against by people like this.

This is a about a right to murder inconvenient children. My second child is due this month. She kicks, she sleeps, she responds to stimuli and she is completely viable. If someone causes her to die right now it is murder. Anyone who "debates" that is a deluded psychopath with the medical knowledge of a retarded hamster.


nobody's talking about aborting 8 month healthy babies. Late term abortions are for when the baby is really messed up and/or bringing the baby to term would likely kill the mother.

Miscarriages and screwed-up pregnancies actually happen a lot. So maybe you should educate yourself, ya ignorant fool.
 
2014-08-31 01:34:26 PM

Tingle007: No one has opposed the removing a dead fetus


I would not be so sure about that.
 
2014-08-31 01:35:08 PM

Tingle007: This is a about a right to murder inconvenient children


How a woman decides to treat her zygote infection is no one's business but her own.
 
2014-08-31 01:36:14 PM
We aren't talking about abortions of healthy fetuses at eight months along either.
 
2014-08-31 01:38:03 PM

Tingle007: No one has opposed the removing a dead fetus.
If a law were proposed banning abortion with the exceptions of rape, incest, and health of the mother, or even anything before the third trimester it would be voted against by people like this.

This is a about a right to murder inconvenient children. My second child is due this month. She kicks, she sleeps, she responds to stimuli and she is completely viable. If someone causes her to die right now it is murder. Anyone who "debates" that is a deluded psychopath with the medical knowledge of a retarded hamster.


Congratulations on your second. I hope everything goes well for y'all. Let me reassure you: nobody is going to break into your home and cart you off to Planned Parenthood to force you to have an abortion.
 
2014-08-31 01:38:25 PM
Play the victim card. Boohoo.

Stop scraping babies out and perhaps people will stop hating you.  She sounds like a cop who enjoys gibing out parking tickets.
 
2014-08-31 01:38:50 PM
In case anybody says "citation needed" about the frequency of miscarriage:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001488.htm

"Around half of all fertilized eggs die and are lost (aborted) spontaneously, usually before the woman knows she is pregnant. Among women who know they are pregnant, the miscarriage rate is about 15-20%. Most miscarriages occur during the first 7 weeks of pregnancy. The rate of miscarriage drops after the baby's heart beat is detected. "

and that most abortions are not late-term:

http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/#Abortion
Women in their twenties accounted for the majority of abortions in 2010 and throughout the period of analysis. The majority of abortions in 2010 took place early in gestation: 91.9% of abortions were performed at ≤13 weeks' gestation, and of the abortions performed at ≤13 weeks' gestation, 71.7% were performed at ≤ 8 weeks' gestation. In 2010, 17.7% of all abortions were medical abortions. Source: MMWR 2013;62(8).
 
2014-08-31 01:41:10 PM

TWX: iheartscotch: edmo: If that doesn't work out I think there are plenty of positions available in the Vatican's "killing for Jesus in war is OK" department.

That office hasn't existed since the 1500's. It got rolled into the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Which you might know as its original name, the Holy Office of the Inquisition. Pope Benedict (yes, the German one that retired recently) was the head of that office before he got elected pope.

You mean, Josef "ve haf vays of makink you tahlk" Ratzinger?


Yep; Benedict XVI, or Josef Ratzinger, was head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith while John Paul II was pope.
 
2014-08-31 01:41:39 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: Tingle007: No one has opposed the removing a dead fetus.
If a law were proposed banning abortion with the exceptions of rape, incest, and health of the mother, or even anything before the third trimester it would be voted against by people like this.

This is a about a right to murder inconvenient children. My second child is due this month. She kicks, she sleeps, she responds to stimuli and she is completely viable. If someone causes her to die right now it is murder. Anyone who "debates" that is a deluded psychopath with the medical knowledge of a retarded hamster.

I don't debate whether or not it is murder.  The semantics don't matter.  It is alive, and if you want to call it murder to abort it, I'll agree.  It is murder.

The question is, under what circumstances should we be allowed to murder.  After all, it isn't ANY LESS murder if it caused by rape or incest.  It isn't any less murder if the child threatens the health of the mother.  It's either murder or it isn't.  You've established that it is murder.  You've also established that you support the right of the Mother to commit murder (or have a doctor commit murder on her behalf) in some cases.

So the debate is just about when it is okay to commit murder.  No need for anyone to be a deluded psychopath.


This I agree with....It's self defense when the baby can kill the mother.


Really the problem is when people murder for things like convenience
 
2014-08-31 01:41:55 PM

Kittypie070: We aren't talking about abortions of healthy fetuses at eight months along either.


Yeah, you've got to pay extra for that......


/ I keed, I keed
 
2014-08-31 01:42:54 PM

Tingle007: This is a about a right to murder inconvenient children. My second child is due this month. She kicks, she sleeps, she responds to stimuli and she is completely viable. If someone causes her to die right now it is murder. Anyone who "debates" that is a deluded psychopath with the medical knowledge of a retarded hamster.


No sane person has ever advocated for terminating an eight-month fetus, or even one in its third trimester. Did you even read the article? Here:

New York's not perfect. We have some gestational age cut-off laws. It's 24 weeks in New York. That's problematic because for fetal anomalies, most ultrasounds are not done until 20 or 22 weeks. So if you were to find out that your child had a lethal fetal anomaly, you only have a short amount of time to get care. But many women in other states have much stricter laws. In North Dakota they're trying to pass a six-week - and already have a twelve-week - restriction. Six weeks is before most women even know they're pregnant. These sorts of restrictions get in the way. If, let's say, you're 26 weeks and you find out you have a lethal fetal anomaly, you can have a safe procedure to end that pregnancy. But now they make women suffer by waiting until the time they have to deliver a dead child. You - and I - can only imagine the heartbreak associated with that process.

A six or 12-week restriction is extremely stupid and dangerous. Things happen. Fetuses can develop problems, which can sometimes be fatal to the fetus, the mother, or both. And sometimes, abortion is the correct course of action.
 
2014-08-31 01:43:06 PM
and here's some juicy reading about the "Abortions for me, not for thee" crowd

http://www.prochoiceactionnetwork-canada.org/articles/anti-tales.sht ml

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2013/07/24/desj ar lais-pro-life-congressman-who-urged-abortions-for-ex-wife-and-mistress -is-running-again
(I think he won - because a large proportion of Southern Christians love people who act all self-righteous in public and don't give a crap what you actually do behind closed doors)

\sorry to be the pro-choice Bevets in the thread
 
2014-08-31 01:46:22 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: I don't debate whether or not it is murder. The semantics don't matter. It is alive, and if you want to call it murder to abort it, I'll agree. It is murder.


The semantics matter a bit. The definition of murder is unlawful killing. Therefore if abortion is legal, it is not murder.
 
2014-08-31 01:46:42 PM

Tingle007: No one has opposed the removing a dead fetus.
If a law were proposed banning abortion with the exceptions of rape, incest, and health of the mother, or even anything before the third trimester it would be voted against by people like this.

This is a about a right to murder inconvenient children. My second child is due this month. She kicks, she sleeps, she responds to stimuli and she is completely viable. If someone causes her to die right now it is murder. Anyone who "debates" that is a deluded psychopath with the medical knowledge of a retarded hamster.


Thank you!
The abortion debate is tired and old. Nobody is going to change anyone else's opinion, so it is for the most part not worth discussing. Yet, surely, even most people that are pro-abortion must be annoyed at the women who brag about "exercising their right to "choose" what to do with their own bodies"?
I mean, whether you think abortion should be available or not, there's clearly a problem with you morally if you are having an abortion just because you can, and then telling everybody that will listen how cool you are because you had one.
Abortion should not be used as birth control or a political statement, period.
 
2014-08-31 01:47:26 PM

K3rmy: Stop scraping babies out and perhaps people will stop hating you. She sounds like a cop who enjoys gibing out parking tickets.


It's scary that abortion workers are allowed abduct pregnant women off the street and force them to get abortions.
 
2014-08-31 01:48:16 PM

The Goddamn Batman: Tingle007: This is a about a right to murder inconvenient children. My second child is due this month. She kicks, she sleeps, she responds to stimuli and she is completely viable. If someone causes her to die right now it is murder. Anyone who "debates" that is a deluded psychopath with the medical knowledge of a retarded hamster.

No sane person has ever advocated for terminating an eight-month fetus, or even one in its third trimester. Did you even read the article? Here:

New York's not perfect. We have some gestational age cut-off laws. It's 24 weeks in New York. That's problematic because for fetal anomalies, most ultrasounds are not done until 20 or 22 weeks. So if you were to find out that your child had a lethal fetal anomaly, you only have a short amount of time to get care. But many women in other states have much stricter laws. In North Dakota they're trying to pass a six-week - and already have a twelve-week - restriction. Six weeks is before most women even know they're pregnant. These sorts of restrictions get in the way. If, let's say, you're 26 weeks and you find out you have a lethal fetal anomaly, you can have a safe procedure to end that pregnancy. But now they make women suffer by waiting until the time they have to deliver a dead child. You - and I - can only imagine the heartbreak associated with that process.

A six or 12-week restriction is extremely stupid and dangerous. Things happen. Fetuses can develop problems, which can sometimes be fatal to the fetus, the mother, or both. And sometimes, abortion is the correct course of action.


I'd disagree.

I consider myself sane and, at least as of right now, haven't been declared insane.
I'd advocate aborting a healthy 8 month old fetus in a lot of situations.
 
2014-08-31 01:48:34 PM
how cool you are because you had one

OK that's just face-meltingly stupid.
 
2014-08-31 01:49:05 PM

Wyalt Derp: Fark_Guy_Rob: I don't debate whether or not it is murder. The semantics don't matter. It is alive, and if you want to call it murder to abort it, I'll agree. It is murder.

The semantics matter a bit. The definition of murder is unlawful killing. Therefore if abortion is legal, it is not murder.


Abortion during the first trimester is simply treatment for an unwanted zygote infection.  That's all it is.
 
2014-08-31 01:49:11 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Tingle007: No one has opposed the removing a dead fetus

I would not be so sure about that.


She is woefully wrong.

My wife's second child died in utero at 7 months. The two closest hospitals refused to remove it. Methodist hospitals.
 
2014-08-31 01:50:31 PM
TheLondonLook:

I mean, whether you think abortion should be available or not, there's clearly a problem with you morally if you are having an abortion just because you can, and then telling everybody that will listen how cool you are because you had one.
Abortion should not be used as birth control or a political statement, period.


Would it be morally wrong to abort this strawman?
 
2014-08-31 01:54:14 PM

Tingle007: No one has opposed the removing a dead fetus.
If a law were proposed banning abortion with the exceptions of rape, incest, and health of the mother, or even anything before the third trimester it would be voted against by people like this.

This is a about a right to murder inconvenient children. My second child is due this month. She kicks, she sleeps, she responds to stimuli and she is completely viable. If someone causes her to die right now it is murder. Anyone who "debates" that is a deluded psychopath with the medical knowledge of a retarded hamster.


I don't know if you realize this or not, but there's a slight difference between that and a five-week-old zygote.
 
2014-08-31 01:54:56 PM

TheLondonLook: Tingle007: No one has opposed the removing a dead fetus.
If a law were proposed banning abortion with the exceptions of rape, incest, and health of the mother, or even anything before the third trimester it would be voted against by people like this.

This is a about a right to murder inconvenient children. My second child is due this month. She kicks, she sleeps, she responds to stimuli and she is completely viable. If someone causes her to die right now it is murder. Anyone who "debates" that is a deluded psychopath with the medical knowledge of a retarded hamster.

Thank you!
The abortion debate is tired and old. Nobody is going to change anyone else's opinion, so it is for the most part not worth discussing. Yet, surely, even most people that are pro-abortion must be annoyed at the women who brag about "exercising their right to "choose" what to do with their own bodies"?
I mean, whether you think abortion should be available or not, there's clearly a problem with you morally if you are having an abortion just because you can, and then telling everybody that will listen how cool you are because you had one.
Abortion should not be used as birth control or a political statement, period.


I don't think anybody is saying it's cool to have an abortion. Do you know anybody who's gone through it? It's an agonizing choice, it hurts, costs a lot of money, and is in no way "fun".

The 800 lb gorilla that pro-lifers seem to be missing is that

A) humans like to have sex, and are in fact largely driven by biological urges along with societal norms. Moreover sometimes a woman can't say "no" to sex either because of rape, or the relationship or culture they're stuck in

B) humans cannot consciously control getting pregnant or not since the sperm and egg are doing things independently of the brain

C) birth control isn't 100% effective, nor can everybody get ahold of it

So women are going to have unwanted pregnancies. It's just inevitable.

if a woman can abort in the first 3-5 months, who cares? That fetus has less awareness than the thousands of dogs and cats being euthanized in shelters every year, or the livestock being slaughtered for our tables.

Given how many miscarriages there are, I would say that your God doesn't really care much about unborn
"babies" anyway.
 
2014-08-31 01:56:20 PM
Doctor gets hero tag for doing her job.

News at 11.

Stupid.
 
2014-08-31 01:57:01 PM
Here's the case of a woman who died because a hospital refused to remove the baby:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/9679840/Pre gn ant-woman-dies-in-Ireland-after-being-denied-an-abortion.html

"Savita Halappanavar, 31, was 17 weeks pregnant when she developed back pain and tests revealed that she would lose her baby.

But despite her repeated pleas over three days, doctors refused to perform a termination as they could still hear the foetus's heartbeat, reportedly telling her: "This is a Catholic country."

Mrs Halappanavar's condition rapidly deteriorated and she died after developing septicaemia four days after the death of her baby. "
 
2014-08-31 01:57:32 PM

Wyalt Derp: Fark_Guy_Rob: I don't debate whether or not it is murder. The semantics don't matter. It is alive, and if you want to call it murder to abort it, I'll agree. It is murder.

The semantics matter a bit. The definition of murder is unlawful killing. Therefore if abortion is legal, it is not murder.


In a courtroom, sure.  But the meaning of something in a courtroom varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.  Things that are criminal in place A aren't in place B.
In an online discussion?  Doesn't seem important unless there is a meaningful distinction to be made.

In a discussion about abortion, I think we all get the idea.
 
2014-08-31 01:58:08 PM

supayoda: Tingle007: No one has opposed the removing a dead fetus.
If a law were proposed banning abortion with the exceptions of rape, incest, and health of the mother, or even anything before the third trimester it would be voted against by people like this.

This is a about a right to murder inconvenient children. My second child is due this month. She kicks, she sleeps, she responds to stimuli and she is completely viable. If someone causes her to die right now it is murder. Anyone who "debates" that is a deluded psychopath with the medical knowledge of a retarded hamster.

I don't know if you realize this or not, but there's a slight difference between that and a five-week-old zygote.


Somehow he read the headline (obviously not the article) and thought that people are debating whether to abort his daughter.
 
2014-08-31 01:58:30 PM

Tingle007: No one has opposed the removing a dead fetus.
If a law were proposed banning abortion with the exceptions of rape, incest, and health of the mother, or even anything before the third trimester it would be voted against by people like this.

This is a about a right to murder inconvenient children. My second child is due this month. She kicks, she sleeps, she responds to stimuli and she is completely viable. If someone causes her to die right now it is murder. Anyone who "debates" that is a deluded psychopath with the medical knowledge of a retarded hamster.


Nobody gets an abortion 8 months in unless it's to save the woman's life, the fetus is already dead/dying or some kind of horrible genetic abnormality has been discovered. Stop wailing about shiat that doesn't happen.
 
2014-08-31 02:00:03 PM

Wyalt Derp: Fark_Guy_Rob: I don't debate whether or not it is murder. The semantics don't matter. It is alive, and if you want to call it murder to abort it, I'll agree. It is murder.

The semantics matter a bit. The definition of murder is unlawful killing. Therefore if abortion is legal, it is not murder.


actually a murder is a group or flock of crows
 
2014-08-31 02:00:50 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Wyalt Derp: Fark_Guy_Rob: I don't debate whether or not it is murder. The semantics don't matter. It is alive, and if you want to call it murder to abort it, I'll agree. It is murder.

The semantics matter a bit. The definition of murder is unlawful killing. Therefore if abortion is legal, it is not murder.

Abortion during the first trimester is simply treatment for an unwanted zygote infection.  That's all it is.


That's your take, and that's certainly one way to look at it.

Why is that any different than 'treatment for an unwanted embryo infection'?
Why is that any different than 'treatment for an unwanted fetus infection'?
And why is that any different than 'treatment for an unwanted child infection'?
 
2014-08-31 02:01:40 PM

Egalitarian: Here's the case of a woman who died because a hospital refused to remove the baby:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/9679840/Pre gn ant-woman-dies-in-Ireland-after-being-denied-an-abortion.html

"Savita Halappanavar, 31, was 17 weeks pregnant when she developed back pain and tests revealed that she would lose her baby.

But despite her repeated pleas over three days, doctors refused to perform a termination as they could still hear the foetus's heartbeat, reportedly telling her: "This is a Catholic country."

Mrs Halappanavar's condition rapidly deteriorated and she died after developing septicaemia four days after the death of her baby. "



Well this anecdotal evidence just ended the entire abortion debate! Time to go watch TV folks, and see what the Kardashians are doing.
 
2014-08-31 02:03:26 PM
Anti-choicers are misogynists and/or sociopaths, whose idiotic policies lead to shady clinics like Gosnell's, often-fatal back alley abortions, women AND fetuses dying when a pregnancy farks up, or women simply being incredibly traumatized by giving birth to a dead baby.

Personally, I'd disagree with women who used it as birth control, but it's not my goddamn place to say that they can't, And banning abortion because some might use it in circumstances I disapprove of is completely idiotic.
 
2014-08-31 02:05:45 PM
Nobody has said this yet but pro choice doesn't mean you are a fan of abortions. It means that not only does a woman have a right to terminate an unwanted pregnancy, it means that she gets to choose if or when she has children.
 
2014-08-31 02:06:48 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: Marcus Aurelius: Wyalt Derp: Fark_Guy_Rob: I don't debate whether or not it is murder. The semantics don't matter. It is alive, and if you want to call it murder to abort it, I'll agree. It is murder.

The semantics matter a bit. The definition of murder is unlawful killing. Therefore if abortion is legal, it is not murder.

Abortion during the first trimester is simply treatment for an unwanted zygote infection.  That's all it is.

That's your take, and that's certainly one way to look at it.

Why is that any different than 'treatment for an unwanted embryo infection'?
Why is that any different than 'treatment for an unwanted fetus infection'?
And why is that any different than 'treatment for an unwanted child infection'?


Every sperm is sacred . . .
 
2014-08-31 02:12:15 PM

LordJiro: Anti-choicers are misogynists and/or sociopaths, whose idiotic policies lead to shady clinics like Gosnell's, often-fatal back alley abortions, women AND fetuses dying when a pregnancy farks up, or women simply being incredibly traumatized by giving birth to a dead baby.

Personally, I'd disagree with women who used it as birth control, but it's not my goddamn place to say that they can't, And banning abortion because some might use it in circumstances I disapprove of is completely idiotic.


Presumably, you are a citizen of some first-world country, though, right?  Most Farkers are.  You work, pay taxes, support your government, and they ALL have laws that say what people can and can't do.  So, it *is* your place.  As a member of society.

There are lots of laws that regulate what parents can and can't do with their children after they are born.  Whether or not children can work, what jobs they can do, what education they are required to provide, even what those children can eat and drink is heavily regulated.  There are an endless number of precedents that dictate what people can do to both their children *and* their own bodies.
 
2014-08-31 02:14:00 PM

edmo: If that doesn't work out I think there are plenty of positions available in the Vatican's "killing for Jesus in war is OK" department.


I see you know fark-all about the Church's position on war.
 
2014-08-31 02:15:35 PM

Tingle007: No one has opposed the removing a dead fetus.
If a law were proposed banning abortion with the exceptions of rape, incest, and health of the mother, or even anything before the third trimester it would be voted against by people like this.

This is a about a right to murder inconvenient children. My second child is due this month. She kicks, she sleeps, she responds to stimuli and she is completely viable. If someone causes her to die right now it is murder. Anyone who "debates" that is a deluded psychopath with the medical knowledge of a retarded hamster.


If you support abortion (or access to it) in cases of rape and incest, or the health of the mother then on what basis would you support a law prohibiting abortion for any other reason?
 
2014-08-31 02:16:24 PM

Tingle007: No one has opposed the removing a dead fetus.
If a law were proposed banning abortion with the exceptions of rape, incest, and health of the mother, or even anything before the third trimester it would be voted against by people like this.

This is a about a right to murder inconvenient children. My second child is due this month. She kicks, she sleeps, she responds to stimuli and she is completely viable. If someone causes her to die right now it is murder. Anyone who "debates" that is a deluded psychopath with the medical knowledge of a retarded hamster.


First of... nice reductio ad absurdum you got there.

Second... MOST pro choicers would be okay with that law if it included a) fetuses that are going to be born with severe deformations, disabilities and other things that would make its life miserable (nice compassion for "teh chillrunz" you have there) and b) allowances for other unforeseen circumstances that may arise that can be decided for by a physician. This can include things like severe hardship for the mother that may lead to mental illness and the like. I would also say the cutoff could be a little later than the start of the second trimester and perhaps up to the third.

HOWEVER considering the end game for the anti abortion crowd (I refuse to call them Pro Life because they are not and that term does not describe them accurately at all) is to have it all banned completely. When society gives them ANY amount of wiggle room or compromise they just push harder for more restrictions and weasel the law to make this as brutal on the woman as possible.

They are relentless and they are zealots. They cannot be trusted as much as an individual can to NOT abuse the right to an abortion.

Nobody LIKES abortion. No woman WANTS to get an abortion. It is icky and unpleasant and aside from sadistic f*cks who should be under psychiatric care most women would avoid an abortion if at all possible.

The thing is the same people who are against abortion tend to REFUSE to give women the tools and knowledge to avoid the problem in any kind of useful or timely fashion... which again points to their zealotry, irrationality and ulterior motives.

So how about this... you want less abortions to happen? Stop fighting proper science based sex ed in schools. Hand out condoms absolutely EVERYWHERE for free and encourage young people to use them. Hell I think kids should be taught about safe sex and taught to use/be allowed to play with condoms WELL before puberty. What's the worst they're gonna do before they can get little blank shooting boners? Make waterballoons? OH NOES!!! Also teach kids how to pleasure themselves. That may sound creepy but when they do get all tingly and curious about stuff they'll know a safe way to deal with it instead of turning to the neighbor boy or the creepy uncle or the naughty pastor or the family dog.

If you cared about stopping abortion THAT is what you would do and it would most definitely stop a large percentage of that icky evil abortion going on but your kind only cares about feeling pious and controlling others and pleasing your skydaddy so he let's you into his boring cloudpalace.

Until the nonsensical religious fueled bullpizzle that surrounds sex in western society stops unfortunately the more rational, logical and compassionate people cannot allow even an inch backwards as far as policy regarding women's rights to control their own body/destiny.

Good luck with your kid though. Seriously. I just hope you don't raise it to be an idiot.
 
2014-08-31 02:17:38 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: Marcus Aurelius: Wyalt Derp: Fark_Guy_Rob: I don't debate whether or not it is murder. The semantics don't matter. It is alive, and if you want to call it murder to abort it, I'll agree. It is murder.

The semantics matter a bit. The definition of murder is unlawful killing. Therefore if abortion is legal, it is not murder.

Abortion during the first trimester is simply treatment for an unwanted zygote infection.  That's all it is.

That's your take, and that's certainly one way to look at it.

Why is that any different than 'treatment for an unwanted embryo infection'?
Why is that any different than 'treatment for an unwanted fetus infection'?
And why is that any different than 'treatment for an unwanted child infection'?


I go by how much it looks like a chicken.

But I don't have a uterus in any case, so my opinion doesn't count.  The owner of the uterus in question should be have the final say over their uterus.
 
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