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(Chicago Trib)   San Jose and Davis say tanks but no tanks   (chicagotribune.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, California cities, military vehicles, Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected, California, Department of Defense, militarization, armoured vehicles, improvised explosive devices  
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2036 clicks; posted to Politics » on 31 Aug 2014 at 12:03 PM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-31 10:15:14 AM  
About time...

s3.amazonaws.com
 
2014-08-31 10:25:05 AM  
Good. LAPD should take note.

/HA!
 
2014-08-31 10:51:42 AM  
raerae1980: Good. LAPD Every police department everywhere should take note.

/HA!

Still HA! though.
 
2014-08-31 10:57:40 AM  
Police officers are not soldiers and Marines....Soldiers and Marines are not police officers.  No Mr. Officer you do not work in a warzone, you get to go home at the end of your shift.  This distinction is often lost, but good on these local governments.
 
2014-08-31 12:01:24 PM  
There was an article in the local paper recently quoting officers who were involved in the Davis pepper spraying incident, and every single one of them expressed their absolute terror at facing unarmed peaceful protestors

/perhaps they're in the wrong job?
 
2014-08-31 12:07:31 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: There was an article in the local paper recently quoting officers who were involved in the Davis pepper spraying incident, and every single one of them expressed their absolute terror at facing unarmed peaceful protestors

/perhaps they're in the wrong job?


Government should be afraid of the people, except when the people are Smelly Hippies.
 
2014-08-31 12:08:51 PM  

Lee Jackson Beauregard: MaudlinMutantMollusk: There was an article in the local paper recently quoting officers who were involved in the Davis pepper spraying incident, and every single one of them expressed their absolute terror at facing unarmed peaceful protestors

/perhaps they're in the wrong job?

Government should be afraid of the people, except when the people are Smelly Hippies.


The government is afraid of the people. That's why they need military-grade equipment to keep them in line.
 
2014-08-31 12:09:38 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: There was an article in the local paper recently quoting officers who were involved in the Davis pepper spraying incident, and every single one of them expressed their absolute terror at facing unarmed peaceful protestors

/perhaps they're in the wrong job?


Maybe it's a marketing problem?

blogs.browardpalmbeach.com
 
2014-08-31 12:13:59 PM  
Good
 
2014-08-31 12:16:20 PM  
If they're mine resistant, they'd make excellent meth labs.
 
2014-08-31 12:21:28 PM  
dl.dropboxusercontent.com

Ah well, they'll only be missing out on the fun.
 
2014-08-31 12:35:21 PM  
Why do cops need nuke bombs?
 
2014-08-31 12:36:26 PM  
Only one of the two cities voluntarily got rid of it.  The other was forced by the citizens and tried to claim it would somehow protect them when defending the acquisition.
 
2014-08-31 12:38:39 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: There was an article in the local paper recently quoting officers who were involved in the Davis pepper spraying incident, and every single one of them expressed their absolute terror at facing unarmed peaceful protestors

/perhaps they're in the wrong job?


Police have body armor, helmets with face shields, handcuffs/zip-ties, pepper spray, batons, tasers, tear gas, bean bag shot guns, attack dogs, semi-auto pistols, semi-auto rifles, and armored vehicles with gun ports.

"Police work is stressful"
 
2014-08-31 12:54:51 PM  

Oxygen_Thief: Police officers are not soldiers and Marines....Soldiers and Marines are not police officers.  No Mr. Officer you do not work in a warzone, you get to go home at the end of your shift.  This distinction is often lost, but good on these local governments.


Really?

At 12:41 a.m. on April 19, Watertown's dispatcher alerted him and all other units that a carjacked Mercedes SUV had been traced to their jurisdiction. Reynolds then saw a car that matched the description.

When Reynolds approached in his cruiser, the vehicle came to a stop. Tamerlan got out and started shooting. Meanwhile, Sgt. John MacLellan had been driving toward the scene in his own cruiser and quickly got on the radio.

"My thing was, I didn't know how many guys there were," said MacLellan. "I didn't know what type of weapons they had. We weren't set up. We weren't ready for this. I needed to create some sort of diversion."

MacLellan jumped out of his cruiser and sent it rolling toward the Tsarnaevs. Over the next few minutes, the brothers threw four pipe bombs, the first of which blew out the windows of the empty cop car. The next two were duds, but the fourth detonated. While it damaged nearby cars and houses, neither cop was injured.

"When it exploded it made my eyes shake sideways," said MacLellan. "It was huge. It was a crazy percussion inside your chest."

Also approaching the scene were Sgt. Jeffrey Pugliese and Officer Michael Comick. Pugliese was moving toward the brothers from a nearby backyard, while Comick-only four months on the job-pulled up in his cruiser.

"Just when I'm looking up to see what's going on, the big pressure cooker went off," Comick said of the fifth explosion. "That was a very loud bang, and a big glow that lit up the entire night."

Meanwhile, Tamerlan rushed toward Pugliese and the two exchanged gunfire. When Pugliese jumped Tamerlan, Dzhokhar hopped into the Mercedes and started speeding toward them.

"The next thing I knew, the headlights were right here in my face, and I had to let go of Tamerlan," recalled Pugliese.

While Pugliese was able to dive out of the way, Tamerlan was hit. The SUV dragged him 25 feet before speeding away.


http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/news/watertown-cops-recall-shootout-bost on -bombers-200008439.html

Pretty much sounds like a war zone to me. And while this is not an every day occurrence, the cops have to have equipment and training to confront this situation.

And this situation where Eric the Patriotic Sniper is aiming one of his two loaded weapons at LEOs.

www.bradblog.com
 
2014-08-31 12:56:31 PM  
My personal feeling is that these vehicles should be given directly to the state, stored in a National Guard armory (where they can be maintained by people with training) and only released by the governor. Put a few checks on their deployment.
 
2014-08-31 01:01:30 PM  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Pretty much sounds like a war zone to me. And while this is not an every day occurrence, the cops have to have equipment and training to confront this situation.


Then they get the equipment and what do they use it for?
Fighting the ever present threat of sovereign citizens and terrorists?

dl.dropboxusercontent.com

Nope!
 
2014-08-31 01:01:59 PM  
They should beat the tanks into tractors.
 
2014-08-31 01:06:15 PM  

mr intrepid: My personal feeling is that these vehicles should be given directly to the state, stored in a National Guard armory (where they can be maintained by people with training) and only released by the governor. Put a few checks on their deployment.


This. There are very few situations that a local police force would need MRAPs to deal with. If they control the deployment of military-spec equipment, they will find any rationalization they need to take out their toys to play with.
 
2014-08-31 01:11:36 PM  
Cops "need to be as heavily armed as the people they're protecting," or so we're told. Why heavily armed people need protecting isn't explained.
 
2014-08-31 01:13:53 PM  

jjorsett: Cops "need to be as heavily armed as the people they're protecting," or so we're told. Why heavily armed people need protecting isn't explained.


Because heavily armed people only use their weapons for The Powers of Good. It says so in the Bible.
 
2014-08-31 01:18:45 PM  
The only real argument against cops having MRAPs is they're a specialty vehicle with high maintenance and limited use.

The militarization argument is a whine. Especially when the same assholes who whine about that are usually the same ones demanding cops have exclusive powers that citizens can't have. So when is that movement to disarm all cops of their LEO only weaponry? Limit them to 7 rounds? We'll have idiots call rifles "weapons of war", state only cops should have them, then cry about cops having other weapons of war. Just a pastiche of believes that aren't actually thought out.
 
2014-08-31 01:19:50 PM  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Oxygen_Thief: Police officers are not soldiers and Marines....Soldiers and Marines are not police officers.  No Mr. Officer you do not work in a warzone, you get to go home at the end of your shift.  This distinction is often lost, but good on these local governments.

Really?

(warzone story)


If I may play Devil's advocate, does that mean every cop on the beat needs to be driving a tank? I don't think the police's RV could be dispatched in time to deal with that.
 
2014-08-31 01:30:58 PM  

Shrapnel: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Oxygen_Thief: Police officers are not soldiers and Marines....Soldiers and Marines are not police officers.  No Mr. Officer you do not work in a warzone, you get to go home at the end of your shift.  This distinction is often lost, but good on these local governments.

Really?

(warzone story)

If I may play Devil's advocate, does that mean every cop on the beat needs to be driving a tank? I don't think the police's RV could be dispatched in time to deal with that.


I think that was Boston Marathon Bombing.

...also not a normal situation.
 
2014-08-31 01:32:57 PM  

Mrbogey: The only real argument against cops having MRAPs is they're a specialty vehicle with high maintenance and limited use.

The militarization argument is a whine. Especially when the same assholes who whine about that are usually the same ones demanding cops have exclusive powers that citizens can't have. So when is that movement to disarm all cops of their LEO only weaponry? Limit them to 7 rounds? We'll have idiots call rifles "weapons of war", state only cops should have them, then cry about cops having other weapons of war. Just a pastiche of believes that aren't actually thought out.


A single shot hunting rifle is a hunting rifle. Even us Brits are allowed those.

An M16 is a weapon of war.

Glad I could could clear that up for you.
 
2014-08-31 01:34:35 PM  

Oxygen_Thief: Police officers are not soldiers and Marines....Soldiers and Marines are not police officers.  No Mr. Officer you do not work in a warzone, you get to go home at the end of your shift.  This distinction is often lost, but good on these local governments.


Cops: too stupid for college, too lazy for the military.
 
2014-08-31 01:35:40 PM  

Mrbogey: The only real argument against cops having MRAPs is they're a specialty vehicle with high maintenance and limited use.

The militarization argument is a whine. Especially when the same assholes who whine about that are usually the same ones demanding cops have exclusive powers that citizens can't have. So when is that movement to disarm all cops of their LEO only weaponry? Limit them to 7 rounds? We'll have idiots call rifles "weapons of war", state only cops should have them, then cry about cops having other weapons of war. Just a pastiche of believes that aren't actually thought out.


Why do conservatives keep whining about it then?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/libertarians-make-their-voices - heard-on-police-in-ferguson-mo/2014/08/14/e780217c-23e6-11e4-86ca-6f03 cbd15c1a_story.html
 
2014-08-31 01:47:45 PM  

Fart_Machine: Mrbogey: The only real argument against cops having MRAPs is they're a specialty vehicle with high maintenance and limited use. ... The militarization argument is a whine.

Why do conservatives keep whining about it then?


Maybe because they're afraid President Hillary will send MRAP-equipped police to confiscate their guns and bibles, force abortions on their daughters and make us all get same-sex marriages?

/just guessing...
 
2014-08-31 02:07:57 PM  
Jiro Dreams Of McRibs:

Pretty much sounds like a war zone to me. And while this is not an every day occurrence, the cops have to have equipment and training to confront this situation.

We should give them M-1 Abrams and A-10 Warthogs just in case. We probably have some extra AC-130H Spectre's we could send them too. Just in case...
 
2014-08-31 02:10:53 PM  

Mrbogey: The only real argument against cops having MRAPs is they're a specialty vehicle with high maintenance and limited use.


How often do cops deal with roadside bombs?
 
2014-08-31 02:50:23 PM  

twat_waffle: mr intrepid: My personal feeling is that these vehicles should be given directly to the state, stored in a National Guard armory (where they can be maintained by people with training) and only released by the governor. Put a few checks on their deployment.

This. There are very few situations that a local police force would need MRAPs to deal with. If they control the deployment of military-spec equipment, they will find any rationalization they need to take out their toys to play with.


I'm going to interrupt here and point out that MRAPs (which are utterly idiotic for law enforcement purposes) are far from the extent of equipment that is being given to local police forces. There are quite a few agencies taking part of the program for completely different reasons - I just heard about a sheriff's office in Colorado getting their hands on about $20,000 worth of video surveillance equipment for the price of shipping. Other agencies are getting things like bullet-proof vests, GPS trackers, and even spotlights for little-to-no cost.

Cases like that should be celebrated. Taxpayers already bought and paid for all that equipment on the federal/DoD side. And this is equipment that those law enforcement agencies would have bought anyway, first chance they had. Giving it to local law enforcement means taxpayers are spared buying the same type of equipment twice. It also means that the agencies can spend that money on other things - like on the training that it takes to handle emergency situations in safer ways.
 
2014-08-31 02:55:15 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-08-31 02:59:45 PM  

Fart_Machine: jjorsett: Cops "need to be as heavily armed as the people they're protecting," or so we're told. Why heavily armed people need protecting isn't explained.

Because heavily armed people only use their weapons for The Powers of Good. It says so in the Bible.


Some people can't resist the temptation to pick a fight no matter what the topic, I guess.
 
2014-08-31 03:02:35 PM  

clkeagle: Cases like that should be celebrated. Taxpayers already bought and paid for all that equipment on the federal/DoD side. And this is equipment that those law enforcement agencies would have bought anyway, first chance they had. Giving it to local law enforcement means taxpayers are spared buying the same type of equipment twice. It also means that the agencies can spend that money on other things - like on the training that it takes to handle emergency situations in safer ways.


How much money will local police departments burn through keeping, maintaining, and using that new equipment just because they have it?  The question that should be asked is, does this equipment have any real use in protecting and serving the people who live in these communities?  In the case of Ferguson, it would appear that the police force exists to serve someone other than the people who live there, and giving them these toys just makes things worse.
 
2014-08-31 03:32:52 PM  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Fascist Prickism


One was a terrorist attack, the other was a federal LEO issue. Neither justify local police forces gearing up to go to war with their local neighborhood.
 
2014-08-31 03:44:06 PM  
Just a little extra info; Santa Clara County Sheriff has at least one 'Brinks style' armored car for meth house/ crack lab busts: and the BAE Tank Factory in Santa Clara, CA has about 50 assorted tanks, APC's, M-2 Bradleys, and other armored vehicles parked at their Back lot of the plant...

And the US Air Force up at Fairfield/Travis AFB might also have a few armored vehicles they could use for the Occupy Fat Cat City Electric Boogaloo II; or come 2016 and the next Repub convention or anti~G8 anarchist Torch the Towne party!
 
2014-08-31 03:49:11 PM  

flondrix: clkeagle: Cases like that should be celebrated. Taxpayers already bought and paid for all that equipment on the federal/DoD side. And this is equipment that those law enforcement agencies would have bought anyway, first chance they had. Giving it to local law enforcement means taxpayers are spared buying the same type of equipment twice. It also means that the agencies can spend that money on other things - like on the training that it takes to handle emergency situations in safer ways.

How much money will local police departments burn through keeping, maintaining, and using that new equipment just because they have it?  The question that should be asked is, does this equipment have any real use in protecting and serving the people who live in these communities?  In the case of Ferguson, it would appear that the police force exists to serve someone other than the people who live there, and giving them these toys just makes things worse.


Very little. Most of the "surplus" equipment they're getting is the same off-the-shelf stuff they would buy anyway. They may need to replace batteries, chargers, lenses and the like... but it's still far cheaper than purchasing new equipment.

And yes, that type of equipment will be used the same way your local departmen thas been using it for years. This is just a cheaper source for many agencies - especially poor rural agencies. Again, I'm talking electronics and safety equipment - not stupid things like MRAPs.

Ferguson PD's problems were far, far deeper than the source of any equipment they were using.
 
2014-08-31 03:52:48 PM  

clkeagle: flondrix: clkeagle: Cases like that should be celebrated. Taxpayers already bought and paid for all that equipment on the federal/DoD side. And this is equipment that those law enforcement agencies would have bought anyway, first chance they had. Giving it to local law enforcement means taxpayers are spared buying the same type of equipment twice. It also means that the agencies can spend that money on other things - like on the training that it takes to handle emergency situations in safer ways.

How much money will local police departments burn through keeping, maintaining, and using that new equipment just because they have it?  The question that should be asked is, does this equipment have any real use in protecting and serving the people who live in these communities?  In the case of Ferguson, it would appear that the police force exists to serve someone other than the people who live there, and giving them these toys just makes things worse.

Very little. Most of the "surplus" equipment they're getting is the same off-the-shelf stuff they would buy anyway. They may need to replace batteries, chargers, lenses and the like... but it's still far cheaper than purchasing new equipment.

And yes, that type of equipment will be used the same way your local departmen thas been using it for years. This is just a cheaper source for many agencies - especially poor rural agencies. Again, I'm talking electronics and safety equipment - not stupid things like MRAPs.

Ferguson PD's problems were far, far deeper than the source of any equipment they were using.


Not only using but using improperly.
 
2014-08-31 03:54:51 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: There was an article in the local paper recently quoting officers who were involved in the Davis pepper spraying incident, and every single one of them expressed their absolute terror at facing unarmed peaceful protestors

/perhaps they're in the wrong job?


perhaps?????? read recently that among other things the militarization breeds a us v enemy. more or worse than just us v them. when the citizens are seen as the enemy --- well i need not continue.
 
2014-08-31 03:57:05 PM  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: clkeagle: Ferguson PD's problems were far, far deeper than the source of any equipment they were using.

Not only using but using improperly.


And the list if items they used improperly started with their badges and Missouri Peace Officer licenses.

That's why they're such a horrible example for examining the equipment transfer program. If any of those asshats were fit to wear their uniforms in the first place, they were clearly ruined by their leadership sometime between the start of their careers and the recent events.
 
2014-08-31 04:30:40 PM  

Lee Jackson Beauregard: Mrbogey: The only real argument against cops having MRAPs is they're a specialty vehicle with high maintenance and limited use.

How often do cops deal with roadside bombs?


Not often. That's why it's a bad investment.
 
2014-08-31 06:39:07 PM  
San Jose doesn't need an MRAP anyway. Nearby cities have them and can be called upon for mutual aid in times of emergency.

Here's a small sample of what Redwood City Police and San Mateo County Sheriff were showing off this 4th of July:

img.fark.net
img.fark.net
img.fark.net
 
2014-08-31 06:43:57 PM  

Lee Jackson Beauregard: MaudlinMutantMollusk: There was an article in the local paper recently quoting officers who were involved in the Davis pepper spraying incident, and every single one of them expressed their absolute terror at facing unarmed peaceful protestors

/perhaps they're in the wrong job?

Government should be afraid of the people, except when the people are Smelly Hippies.


The government should fear the people. The government is not instituted for the purpose of controlling the general population but to preserve their rights and to defend them from would be tyrants.
 
2014-08-31 06:59:20 PM  
San Jose will need it when the Sharks win the Stanley Cup and the rioting starts.

/wait, who am i kidding
 
2014-08-31 07:18:01 PM  

zimbach: San Jose doesn't need an MRAP anyway. Nearby cities have them and can be called upon for mutual aid in times of emergency.

Here's a small sample of what Redwood City Police and San Mateo County Sheriff were showing off this 4th of July:

[img.fark.net image 600x450]
[img.fark.net image 600x450]
[img.fark.net image 600x450]


edge.liveleak.com
 
2014-08-31 08:43:01 PM  

zimbach: San Jose doesn't need an MRAP anyway. Nearby cities have them and can be called upon for mutual aid in times of emergency.

Here's a small sample of what Redwood City Police and San Mateo County Sheriff were showing off this 4th of July:

[img.fark.net image 600x450]
[img.fark.net image 600x450]
[img.fark.net image 600x450]


I have a great protest idea against this kind of police state dick waving. Have our kids run out and start throwing eggs at their tanks while they are parading. A bunch of 10 year olds lobbing eggs would send a powerful message that enough is enough. And if they want to be bullies and go after the kids. That would just reinforce the message.

Enough of this shiat!
 
2014-08-31 08:46:38 PM  

Diagonal: The government should fear the people.


In a democracy, the people ARE the government.
 
2014-08-31 09:04:37 PM  

Mrbogey: Lee Jackson Beauregard: Mrbogey: The only real argument against cops having MRAPs is they're a specialty vehicle with high maintenance and limited use.

How often do cops deal with roadside bombs?

Not often. That's why it's a bad investment.


No, MRAP/armored trucks are also Bullet Proof/ Bullet Resistent; so safe guarding officers in a high danger call is a good idea. Plus large armored trucks can act as armored ambulance/safety truck for escaping hostages...

So, when used properly an MRAP is a good thing! You don't want more LEO funerals!
 
2014-08-31 09:09:59 PM  

Swampmaster: Mrbogey: Lee Jackson Beauregard: Mrbogey: The only real argument against cops having MRAPs is they're a specialty vehicle with high maintenance and limited use.

How often do cops deal with roadside bombs?

Not often. That's why it's a bad investment.

No, MRAP/armored trucks are also Bullet Proof/ Bullet Resistent; so safe guarding officers in a high danger call is a good idea. Plus large armored trucks can act as armored ambulance/safety truck for escaping hostages...

So, when used properly an MRAP is a good thing! You don't want more LEO funerals!


They are also very effective at intimidating and silencing citizens.
www.theglobeandmail.com

God Bless the Fascist States of America.
 
2014-08-31 10:12:47 PM  

Swampmaster: No, MRAP/armored trucks are also Bullet Proof/ Bullet Resistent; so safe guarding officers in a high danger call is a good idea.


Yes, it is a good idea to keep officers reasonably safe while executing their duties to the public.  That goes without saying.

But let's get real here.  MRAPs/armored trucks are almost never necessary, and if we're going to resort to the "better safe than sorry" argument, then let's start busing kids to school in these vehicles, too.
 
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