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(Games.On.Net)   "I hope you'll be part of a glorious future where a game that treats women and LGBT groups with respect won't be held up as some weird oddity"   (games.on.net) divider line 448
    More: Interesting, Tim Schafer, girl gamer, Phil Fish  
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2556 clicks; posted to Geek » on 30 Aug 2014 at 3:49 PM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-30 01:26:54 PM  
Good on 'em.

If the recockulousness that is Borderlands 2 can have gay characters that aren't just played for laughs, and even have poignant moments with various characters, male and female, then there is hope for the industry. Don't get me wrong, Sir Hammerlock IS a ridiculous character, but they pretty damn much all are. That's the sort of thing about the game, but even Doctor Crazypants Tanis has her moments. It can be done, and if players can embrace characters that are women, or gay or lesbian, or even transgendered, then they can handle other players as well. And yeah, it's past time for the gaming community to clean up after their own folks. While the gaming community IS dominated by teen and twenty somethings for demographics, that doesn't preclude them from learning to grow the f*ck up.
 
2014-08-30 02:30:52 PM  
FIGHT NIGHT GOIN DOWN IN THIS THREAD.  EVERYONE FROM THE SARKEESIAN THREAD, GET IN HERE.
 
2014-08-30 02:31:15 PM  
White people problems
 
2014-08-30 03:56:57 PM  
What's all this then?
 
2014-08-30 04:02:18 PM  
I really don't think it's the idea of having women or LGBT characters represented realistically and fairly in games that really scares the pissy little cadre of "real gamers" making these threats, I believe it's that they're possessed by paranoid fantasies that their hobby will be curated by someone they see as an outsider.

I expect that developers will move in positive directions as the overall culture becomes more inclusive and, probably more realistically, why wouldn't they make adjustments to tap as much of the female market as possible?  Now the deluded crusaders who shriek about this will, of course, see any, even purely pragmatic, market driven move as capitulation, but who cares?

And yes, thankfully some developers and designers will (and have already) take her criticisms to heart, the idea that she or anyone else is going to destroy their hobby my making it more inclusive is ridiculous.   But I can see where it comes from.   First it was their mother keeping the "good games" from them.  Now they shrink from the specter of "Big Mother" Sarkeesian and her pervasive, imaginary, feminist cabal.
 
2014-08-30 04:02:33 PM  
You know who else wanted undesirables to be excluded from a "glorious future"?
 
2014-08-30 04:02:49 PM  
I hope to be part of a glorious future where perpetually-outraged tumblrites are ignored by society at large.
 
2014-08-30 04:03:04 PM  

hubiestubert: Good on 'em.

If the recockulousness that is Borderlands 2 can have gay characters that aren't just played for laughs, and even have poignant moments with various characters, male and female, then there is hope for the industry. Don't get me wrong, Sir Hammerlock IS a ridiculous character, but they pretty damn much all are. That's the sort of thing about the game, but even Doctor Crazypants Tanis has her moments. It can be done, and if players can embrace characters that are women, or gay or lesbian, or even transgendered, then they can handle other players as well. And yeah, it's past time for the gaming community to clean up after their own folks. While the gaming community IS dominated by teen and twenty somethings for demographics, that doesn't preclude them from learning to grow the f*ck up.


Actually the gaming industry is no longer dominated by immature straight guys with small penises playing games in their parents basement. And that's the issue. This is the last grasp of the old gaming class who suddenly found themselves in the minority.

And it's about fark'n time these assholes were shown the door.

/gamer who happens to be gay
 
2014-08-30 04:10:29 PM  
The whole Zoe Quinn hate brigade seems to be more angry that she basically used sex to influence journalists and gain favor from her peers.

People are angry because they feel that game journalism has been compromised, and then there are those who feel it's never been legitimate and it's always been used to simply shill for game publishers.

That's what I've gathered from the whole mess.  None of those views are necessarily my own.
 
2014-08-30 04:11:44 PM  
*opens webpage.  Sees "Zoe Quinn"

2.bp.blogspot.com

/even if you win you still lose
 
2014-08-30 04:12:17 PM  
EVERYONE IN THE THREAD REPORTED FOR NOT CHECKING THEIR WHITE, CIS-MALE PRIVILEGE!
 
2014-08-30 04:13:24 PM  

Glitchwerks: The whole Zoe Quinn hate brigade


Including the ones making rape and death threats?
 
2014-08-30 04:14:21 PM  
I swear since game of thrones if everyone isnt gay or a transformer running around banging every hole they can find no one is happy.
 
2014-08-30 04:14:54 PM  

Glitchwerks: The whole Zoe Quinn hate brigade seems to be more angry that she basically used sex to influence journalists and gain favor from her peers.


I thought it was shown that the person she was accused of having sex with not even review the game, and it was a fabrication.

/could be wrong
//likely am
 
2014-08-30 04:15:33 PM  

Inigo: You know who else wanted undesirables to be excluded from a "glorious future"?


img.fark.net
 
2014-08-30 04:15:37 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Glitchwerks: The whole Zoe Quinn hate brigade

Including the ones making rape and death threats?


Is that a thing yet? because last I heard the "facts" didnt add up (like the screenshot being taken mere seconds after the threats were posted)
 
2014-08-30 04:16:50 PM  
So every game will have to have the token white guy, token black guy, token white woman, token black woman, token Asian guy, token Asian woman, token gay, token lesbian, and bonus points for having a transformer?
 
2014-08-30 04:17:01 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Including the ones making rape and death threats?


You're right, I shouldn't have said "whole."

A portion of indeterminable size of the Zoe Quinn hate brigade.
 
2014-08-30 04:18:05 PM  

Tobin_Lam: So every game will have to have the token white guy, token black guy, token white woman, token black woman, token Asian guy, token Asian woman, token gay, token lesbian, and bonus points for having a transformer?


Well, games have historically been played with tokens.
 
2014-08-30 04:20:24 PM  

DaStompa: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Glitchwerks: The whole Zoe Quinn hate brigade

Including the ones making rape and death threats?

Is that a thing yet? because last I heard the "facts" didnt add up (like the screenshot being taken mere seconds after the threats were posted)


Well, that and the fact she has yet to report it to the police AND the tweets were made after she tweeted that she received them (according to some blog I read, so take it with a grain of salt)
 
2014-08-30 04:21:16 PM  

Glitchwerks: The whole Zoe Quinn hate brigade seems to be more angry that she basically used sex to influence journalists and gain favor from her peers.

People are angry because they feel that game journalism has been compromised, and then there are those who feel it's never been legitimate and it's always been used to simply shill for game publishers.

That's what I've gathered from the whole mess.  None of those views are necessarily my own.


That's the excuse, except it's entirely manufactured outrage.  Even the info leaked by the accuser showed that the relationship in question happened after the journalist wrote about her, and no one she had any sort of relationship with ever reviewed her games.  He just quoted her in an article -- before they had a relationship, and then never again.  There was no "using sex to influence journalists."  The timing literally doesn't work, nor does the evidence presented support that case.
 
2014-08-30 04:24:21 PM  
in most video games i've played, i've been either on a mass murder spree, or in some sort of lysergic induced fever dream situation (yes, eat the flower. then you can shoot fire) - are we really supposed to be taking these things seriously - and if so, aren't the murder sprees kinda less socially acceptable behavior than misogyny?

i guess i'm asking - if the whole 'fantasy/relaxation/entertainment' outlet thing is to be parsed as actually something to take seriously, then how in the hell could gender roles be the issue anybody in the world could care about?
 
2014-08-30 04:25:06 PM  
"gamers r ded" article from a "gamin joornailist" stroking off other "gamin joornailist" articles about "gamers r ded"
 
2014-08-30 04:26:55 PM  

neuroflare: Glitchwerks: The whole Zoe Quinn hate brigade seems to be more angry that she basically used sex to influence journalists and gain favor from her peers.

I thought it was shown that the person she was accused of having sex with not even review the game, and it was a fabrication.

/could be wrong
//likely am


The whole Zoe Quinn thing just boggles my mind. Even if she made a game that some gamers didn't care for, I just don't understand how they could get so worked up over it that they pull a full on internet hate campaign. How big of a piece of shiat do you have to be to go nuclear on someone because they put out a game you think is a bit crap. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Get on with your life. It is LITERALLY just a game.

I've been gaming for a little over 30 years, since my parents bought be a Sears Video Arcade II (a rebadged Atari 2800*), and I just don't get these farkwads. I almost want to think that they are fabricated, because it is hard to believe that anyone is THAT big a jackass, but the human race never fails to surprise at just how farked up it can get sometimes, so these idiots probably ARE actually threatening to rape her and kill her whole family.

*not a typo
 
2014-08-30 04:27:57 PM  

Mad_Radhu: The whole Zoe Quinn thing just boggles my mind. Even if she made a game that some gamers didn't care for, I just don't understand how they could get so worked up over it that they pull a full on internet hate campaign. How big of a piece of shiat do you have to be to go nuclear on someone because they put out a game you think is a bit crap. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Get on with your life. It is LITERALLY just a game.


hmmmm.....have you met the internet before?

it's kinda an asshole.
 
2014-08-30 04:29:06 PM  

heap: in most video games i've played, i've been either on a mass murder spree, or in some sort of lysergic induced fever dream situation (yes, eat the flower. then you can shoot fire) - are we really supposed to be taking these things seriously - and if so, aren't the murder sprees kinda less socially acceptable behavior than misogyny?


I'm sure that gaming industry is highly offensive to and biased in its depiction of Nazis,  zombies, mutants, and orcs.  And that's fine.  I'd just rather that list not include "women".
 
2014-08-30 04:29:23 PM  

machoprogrammer: EVERYONE IN THE THREAD REPORTED FOR NOT CHECKING THEIR WHITE, CIS-MALE PRIVILEGE!


I checked. It's fine.
 
2014-08-30 04:31:28 PM  

jaerik: Glitchwerks: The whole Zoe Quinn hate brigade seems to be more angry that she basically used sex to influence journalists and gain favor from her peers.

People are angry because they feel that game journalism has been compromised, and then there are those who feel it's never been legitimate and it's always been used to simply shill for game publishers.

That's what I've gathered from the whole mess.  None of those views are necessarily my own.

That's the excuse, except it's entirely manufactured outrage.  Even the info leaked by the accuser showed that the relationship in question happened after the journalist wrote about her, and no one she had any sort of relationship with ever reviewed her games.  He just quoted her in an article -- before they had a relationship, and then never again.  There was no "using sex to influence journalists."  The timing literally doesn't work, nor does the evidence presented support that case.


Ya, but if I rely on 'facts' and 'real things' how can I be outraged that a beautiful women had sex with people while my fat, horrible, sluglike carapace only attracts dying animals, none of which will hold still long enough to allow me to mate with them?
 
2014-08-30 04:33:49 PM  
Golfers are misogynistic cis scum and the game should be outlawed because the club and ball make me think of a penis and testicles and so I am rape triggered whenever I see one.
 
2014-08-30 04:43:50 PM  

heap: Mad_Radhu: The whole Zoe Quinn thing just boggles my mind. Even if she made a game that some gamers didn't care for, I just don't understand how they could get so worked up over it that they pull a full on internet hate campaign. How big of a piece of shiat do you have to be to go nuclear on someone because they put out a game you think is a bit crap. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Get on with your life. It is LITERALLY just a game.

hmmmm.....have you met the internet before?

it's kinda an asshole.


Yeah, but I kind of held out some hope that the assholishness in the gaming world was all in good fun and no one was serious about their stupid insults, but apparently there are some jerkwads who consider gaming to be super serial.
 
2014-08-30 04:44:00 PM  
So am I supposed to feel good or bad about myself for enjoying Bulletstorm?  On one hand, male power fantasy.  On the other hand "I'll shoot you in the dick"...

This shiat is just too confusing.

Can I just go back to enjoying games?
 
2014-08-30 04:44:48 PM  

Tobin_Lam: So every game will have to have the token white guy, token black guy, token white woman, token black woman, token Asian guy, token Asian woman, token gay, token lesbian, and bonus points for having a transformer?


img.fark.net
They are more than meets the eye.
 
2014-08-30 04:49:14 PM  
And that day happened a while ago.
 
2014-08-30 04:54:07 PM  

BMFPitt: And that day happened a while ago.


Seriously.  Dragon age, Fable, Skyrim, and Mass Effect all allow gay marriages and aren't considered "oddities", and many have been considered GOTYs.  Even Dark Souls has a transexual character.

This shiat isn't a big deal anymore, but if you don't biatch about imaginary slights, how will you rake in money from people who don't know better?
 
2014-08-30 04:54:56 PM  

dameron: I'm sure that gaming industry is highly offensive to and biased in its depiction of Nazis,  zombies, mutants, and orcs.  And that's fine.  I'd just rather that list not include "women".


and every male that's been either a nazi, zombie, mutant, orc, or other assorted person you either kill, claim, or teabag - honest question - is that misandry? or is it just idiotic escapism?

again, I'm not exactly holding the pulse of the gaming world here - but for the casually acquainted meander i take thru the topic, i guess i'm just not seeing rabid pixel-women abuse.

that said, i'm really hoping nazis and zombies don't get a good lobby, because...yah. gaming would be largely screwed.


Mad_Radhu: Yeah, but I kind of held out some hope that the assholishness in the gaming world was all in good fun and no one was serious about their stupid insults, but apparently there are some jerkwads who consider gaming to be super serial.


any unmoderated comments section on a news article will suck even the lowest expectations down a few pegs. i dunno that that is a 'gaming' thing, as much as it's 'the internet has rabies' thing.
 
2014-08-30 04:55:54 PM  

Son of Thunder: machoprogrammer: EVERYONE IN THE THREAD REPORTED FOR NOT CHECKING THEIR WHITE, CIS-MALE PRIVILEGE!

I checked. It's fine.


You forgot a Trigger Warning. I have PTSD from reading Fark comments; it is similar to what war veterans went through! REPORTED YOU CIS SCUM!
 
2014-08-30 05:02:20 PM  

machoprogrammer: Son of Thunder: machoprogrammer: EVERYONE IN THE THREAD REPORTED FOR NOT CHECKING THEIR WHITE, CIS-MALE PRIVILEGE!

I checked. It's fine.

You forgot a Trigger Warning. I have PTSD from reading Fark comments; it is similar to what war veterans went through! REPORTED YOU CIS SCUM!


A Trigger Warning? Trigger died in 1965! But okay...

Warning: Watch out for the ghost of Roy Rogers' horse.
 
2014-08-30 05:05:20 PM  
Oh lord, enough death threats to Sarkeesian, just stop publicizing her and hopefully she'll die on her own out of lack of attention. I can't believe people still give her credit after the Kickstarter nonsense and her video series is full of dribble. I've seen parodies of her that have equally poignant points.
 
2014-08-30 05:09:16 PM  

SanjiSasuke: Oh lord, enough death threats to Sarkeesian, just stop publicizing her and hopefully she'll die on her own out of lack of attention. I can't believe people still give her credit after the Kickstarter nonsense and her video series is full of dribble. I've seen parodies of her that have equally poignant points.


You act like the death threats are real. They likely aren't.
 
2014-08-30 05:11:09 PM  

dameron: heap: in most video games i've played, i've been either on a mass murder spree, or in some sort of lysergic induced fever dream situation (yes, eat the flower. then you can shoot fire) - are we really supposed to be taking these things seriously - and if so, aren't the murder sprees kinda less socially acceptable behavior than misogyny?

I'm sure that gaming industry is highly offensive to and biased in its depiction of Nazis,  zombies, mutants, and orcs.  And that's fine.  I'd just rather that list not include "women".


I feel like mentioning that these 3 aren't always depicted as the blood thirsty enemy.

Truthfully, in the past I have been known to wipe out cities and countries in games so I guess I have been committing fictional mass murder sprees.  But if those men, women and children didn't want to die then they should dodged my munitions.  Survival of the fittest and all that.
 
2014-08-30 05:14:49 PM  

heap: in most video games i've played, i've been either on a mass murder spree, or in some sort of lysergic induced fever dream situation (yes, eat the flower. then you can shoot fire) - are we really supposed to be taking these things seriously - and if so, aren't the murder sprees kinda less socially acceptable behavior than misogyny?

i guess i'm asking - if the whole 'fantasy/relaxation/entertainment' outlet thing is to be parsed as actually something to take seriously, then how in the hell could gender roles be the issue anybody in the world could care about?


Farking thank you! I personally don't give a rat's ass if you put LGBT characters into games. Games are supposed to be a fantasy. Surely we can imagine such fantastical creatures. I'm just tired of this irritating debate being injected into every farking thing. I'm trying to play a game to temporarily distract me from the bullshiat, you will get no positive reaction from anyone if you insist on injecting the bullshiat into my distraction.
 
2014-08-30 05:15:05 PM  

Mad_Radhu: *not a typo


What is an Atari 2800?

Off to the Google...never seen one of those before.  I'm assuming it is 2600 compatible?
 
2014-08-30 05:15:38 PM  

Glitchwerks: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Including the ones making rape and death threats?

You're right, I shouldn't have said "whole."

A portion of indeterminable size of the Zoe Quinn hate brigade.


#NOTALLZOEHATERS
 
2014-08-30 05:20:32 PM  
Mario Brothers is obviously biased against Koopas. You all need to check your cishuman privilege
 
2014-08-30 05:20:33 PM  
So, some woman got treated the way the left treats anyone that dares to not rubber stamp everything the left waves it's arms about.

boo hoo

suggested maybe, just maybe, video games could treat women better.

That's OK. It's actually refreshing having something not ran through your Officially Approved PC Filter. Don't like a game, don't play it. Think you can do better? You are free to try. Start typing.
 
2014-08-30 05:21:07 PM  

hammer85: BMFPitt: And that day happened a while ago.

Seriously.  Dragon age, Fable, Skyrim, and Mass Effect all allow gay marriages and aren't considered "oddities", and many have been considered GOTYs.  Even Dark Souls has a transexual character.

This shiat isn't a big deal anymore, but if you don't biatch about imaginary slights, how will you rake in money from people who don't know better?


And that is (sadly) what this is all about.  There's now money to be made in feminism, so every hack who wasn't good enough to get hired on at a real publication now takes to the interwebs to drum up outrage over the latest indignities that the patriarchy is foisting on the helpless upper-middle-class white college-educated women.

Of course, the accusations of misogyny in the gaming community aren't entirely false.  There's a lot of sad pathetic douchebags online who will say the most horrific things imaginable for the simple joy of knowing they offended someone.
 
2014-08-30 05:21:34 PM  
I have to agree a change to bringing these things into a normal view instead of treating it as a punch line or thrown in for edge would be nice. As games like Dragon Age, Mass Effect, and others have shown it can be done tastefully and well made. My main concern is that the worry over offending will ruin the stories and ideas given. While I do not condone misogyny or hatred towards anyone for their sexuality, to remove these things from stories entirely would remove certain realistic aspects. After all, a game without a douche bag of some sort would feel watered down. We don't want to glorify the behavior, but I don't feel that silencing it is an answer either.
 
2014-08-30 05:22:24 PM  

machoprogrammer: SanjiSasuke: Oh lord, enough death threats to Sarkeesian, just stop publicizing her and hopefully she'll die on her own out of lack of attention. I can't believe people still give her credit after the Kickstarter nonsense and her video series is full of dribble. I've seen parodies of her that have equally poignant points.

You act like the death threats are real. They likely aren't.


Eh. while most of the death threats are along the line of "DIAF," there's always going to be a serious nut or two mixed in, and they're the ones she has to worry about.
On the other hand, receiving death threats does not, as her most diehard supporters insist, make her 100% inarguably correct. Westboro Baptist gets death threats, too. I think she has raised some very good points, but she also cherry-picks, takes things out of context, exaggerates, and otherwise engages in deceit to make her points while dismissing or outright ignoring any evidence to the contrary or other possible interpretations.
 
2014-08-30 05:23:13 PM  

barneyfifesbullet: So, some woman got treated the way the left treats anyone that dares to not rubber stamp everything the left waves it's arms about.


It's not always about you.  Get off your cross.
 
2014-08-30 05:23:25 PM  
Welcome to Fark, where you can't say bait click reversed but every article we green is!
 
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