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(The New Yorker)   Nation Debates Extremely Complex Issue of Children Firing Military Weapons   (newyorker.com) divider line 229
    More: Satire, Lists of weapons  
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2138 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Aug 2014 at 6:19 PM (8 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-28 03:52:36 PM  
They shouldn't. End of debate...
 
2014-08-28 04:12:37 PM  
How often are kids killed by guns at gun ranges? I would have to imagine its a really tiny number, right? Just because it happened this week doesn't all the sudden make it a policy issue.

I'm as anti-gun as you're gonna get on Fark, but I'm not sure this makes sense.
 
2014-08-28 04:27:57 PM  

DamnYankees: How often are kids killed by guns at gun ranges? I would have to imagine its a really tiny number, right? Just because it happened this week doesn't all the sudden make it a policy issue.

I'm as anti-gun as you're gonna get on Fark, but I'm not sure this makes sense.


Plus it's sort of Darwinian right? Besides, other countries have child soldiers, why can't we?
 
2014-08-28 04:28:25 PM  

DamnYankees: I'm as anti-gun as you're gonna get on Fark....


Nah, not even close

DamnYankees: but I'm not sure this makes sense.


See that proves it.  Some here think the government going door to door collecting every firearm in existence is a rational response for a child somehow somewhere being involved with a firearm as either the shooter or the one who's shot.

This is such a big story because it is so unusual.  But it sure makes for pretty soundbites for politicians to show that "I'm 'doing something' about the scourge of 9 year olds running around with Uzis mowing down the innocent (and as long as you're thinking about what a great job I'm doing, why don't you write a check to my reelection campaign...). We cannot stand for such a thing....".

My heart breaks for that little girl who has to pay for others' stupidity (the instructor already paid for his stupidity), but that doesn't mean that there needs to be yet another law protecting us from something that just doesn't happen enough to be concerned with.
 
2014-08-28 04:31:02 PM  

bdub77: Plus it's sort of Darwinian right?


I have to say, gun instructors dying at the hands of their students seems to be something of a self-correcting problem.
 
2014-08-28 04:31:07 PM  

DamnYankees: How often are kids killed by guns at gun ranges? I would have to imagine its a really tiny number, right? Just because it happened this week doesn't all the sudden make it a policy issue.

I'm as anti-gun as you're gonna get on Fark, but I'm not sure this makes sense.


An instructor was killed by a kid. Not what you said.  Preventable accident. The instructor was an idiot. Stand behind your student and reach over. Have control of the weapon at all times. Also, 9 is too young. I'd say 13 is about right.

I couldn't help but laff at the shooting school's owner praising his "expert, professional staff" on TV. Dude, you're burying one of them tomorrow.
 
2014-08-28 04:31:44 PM  

smells_like_meat: DamnYankees: How often are kids killed by guns at gun ranges? I would have to imagine its a really tiny number, right? Just because it happened this week doesn't all the sudden make it a policy issue.

I'm as anti-gun as you're gonna get on Fark, but I'm not sure this makes sense.

An instructor was killed by a kid. Not what you said.  Preventable accident. The instructor was an idiot. Stand behind your student and reach over. Have control of the weapon at all times. Also, 9 is too young. I'd say 13 is about right.

I couldn't help but laff at the shooting school's owner praising his "expert, professional staff" on TV. Dude, you're burying one of them tomorrow.


You are correct. That's what I meant to say.
 
2014-08-28 04:33:13 PM  
Hmmm, I just noticed the satire tag..... what was that tasty curved metal thing that I was chewing on earlier?
Besides, DY was already hanging on one, it must be good to swallow, right?

 /In my defense, being in the New Yorker it was within the realm of being plausible that it was serious.
 
2014-08-28 04:34:21 PM  

DamnYankees: smells_like_meat: DamnYankees: How often are kids killed by guns at gun ranges? I would have to imagine its a really tiny number, right? Just because it happened this week doesn't all the sudden make it a policy issue.

I'm as anti-gun as you're gonna get on Fark, but I'm not sure this makes sense.

An instructor was killed by a kid. Not what you said.  Preventable accident. The instructor was an idiot. Stand behind your student and reach over. Have control of the weapon at all times. Also, 9 is too young. I'd say 13 is about right.

I couldn't help but laff at the shooting school's owner praising his "expert, professional staff" on TV. Dude, you're burying one of them tomorrow.

You are correct. That's what I meant to say.


Easy mistake. I used to train adults (police) to use firearms including sub machine guns. Muzzle control is very important. As shown by this incident.
 
2014-08-28 04:46:45 PM  

DamnYankees: I would have to imagine its a really tiny number, right?


I imagine if you're the victim it's a pretty big farking deal

Kid shoots person at Russian range

kid kills self with Uzi at gun show

I'm sure I could find more... But how do you overcome the insanity of those who view this as normal? Here's Guns and Ammo's child indoctrination approach:

How to Choose Your Child's First Gun


WTF? This ain't church we're talking about.
 
2014-08-28 04:57:36 PM  
We need them to get old enough to ship off to a needless, senseless war first
 
2014-08-28 04:57:56 PM  

edmo: I imagine if you're the victim it's a pretty big farking deal

Kid shoots person at Russian range

kid kills self with Uzi at gun show


The Uzi article is from 2008, and the Russia one is from Russia.

I'm not saying these aren't tragedies - of course they are. The question is whether they are social problems large enough to require a policy response. I don't see evidence of that.
 
wee [TotalFark]
2014-08-28 05:04:38 PM  
Every gun owner I've talked to has agreed that a 9 year old girl probably shouldn't be handling an Uzi.  It's not especially powerful or anything, but it's reflexive to want to grab onto something that is getting out of control. You have to learn to un-grab a full auto gun or it keeps firing.  (Plus there's all sorts of things like proper posture and such you need to know.)

Even though it should be common sense, I don't know if we need a law about the issue.
 
2014-08-28 05:06:32 PM  

Recoil Therapy: See that proves it. Some here think the government going door to door collecting every firearm in existence is a rational response for a child somehow somewhere being involved with a firearm as either the shooter or the one who's shot.


No, we just think that 9 year olds shouldn't fire Uzi's.
 
2014-08-28 05:10:09 PM  

Recoil Therapy: Hmmm, I just noticed the satire tag..... what was that tasty curved metal thing that I was chewing on earlier?
Besides, DY was already hanging on one, it must be good to swallow, right?

 /In my defense, being in the New Yorker it was within the realm of being plausible that it was serious.


A knee-jerk is a kind of recoil
 
2014-08-28 05:27:40 PM  
I dont think I want to meet the 9 year old girl who wants to learn how to fire an Uzi.
 
2014-08-28 05:46:05 PM  

vernonFL: I dont think I want to meet the 9 year old girl who wants to learn how to fire an Uzi.


Yes, because I'm sure it was entirely her idea.
 
2014-08-28 05:51:15 PM  

thisisyourbrainonFark: vernonFL: I dont think I want to meet the 9 year old girl who wants to learn how to fire an Uzi.

Yes, because I'm sure it was entirely her idea.


Who knows, maybe she was Veruca Salt or something?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-08-28 05:59:54 PM  
DamnYankees:
I'm as anti-gun as you're gonna get on Fark, but I'm not sure this makes sense.

More often than they should.  There was a boy who killed himself the same way a few years ago.
 
2014-08-28 06:26:56 PM  
Adults in the military shouldn't be firing military weapons.
 
2014-08-28 06:27:36 PM  

Mugato: Adults in the military shouldn't be firing military weapons.


Adults NOT in the military shouldn't be firing military weapons. that is
 
2014-08-28 06:28:36 PM  
that instructor deserved it, he was infringing on her rights...shoot down range? at a target? that sound like creeping tyranny...that girl is a gottdamm hero!
 
2014-08-28 06:29:16 PM  

SquiggsIN: I'm all for a mandatory three-day waiting period before a five-year old can buy an Uzi.


TYRANNY!
 
2014-08-28 06:32:19 PM  

DamnYankees: I'm not saying these aren't tragedies - of course they are. The question is whether they are social problems large enough to require a policy response. I don't see evidence of that.


This killing, accidental or not, is not enough to warrant a policy change.
Nor was the last one.
Or the one before that
Or the one before that
Or the one before that

Or the next one, most like
Or the one after that
Or the one after that
 
2014-08-28 06:34:50 PM  
I don't think that that was satire, subby.
 
2014-08-28 06:36:25 PM  
Uzis? Christ, why not give her a Glock as well and fully thrust her into the stereotype gun market?
 
2014-08-28 06:36:31 PM  
I feel bad for the child.
 
2014-08-28 06:38:13 PM  
i58.tinypic.com
 
2014-08-28 06:42:58 PM  
Guns weed out the stupid, be they gang bangers or overconfident instructors
 
2014-08-28 06:44:32 PM  

thisisyourbrainonFark: vernonFL: I dont think I want to meet the 9 year old girl who wants to learn how to fire an Uzi.

Yes, because I'm sure it was entirely her idea.


The range owner said it was:

"This was a very mature young lady, and something she wanted to do and her parents her treating her," he said of the 9-year-old. "This was something that was high on her bucket list to do, and her parents took her out to do what she was going to do."

I wonder where blowing away a grown adult was on her bucket list.
 
2014-08-28 06:47:41 PM  
When you call a place "Bullets and Burgers" and market it as a fun tourist stop, you're just feeding into "guns are toys" culture.

I'm amazed by how little respect so many activists show towards firearms. You'd think the NRA would want to clean its own house of that mindset.
 
2014-08-28 06:49:28 PM  
all 'murrcan children should , at the minumum, be qualified on the AK-47 by age 8.   cause there evilss peopleses out theire whois gonana' distroy ffreedumb!!
 
2014-08-28 06:49:45 PM  

Serious Black: thisisyourbrainonFark: vernonFL: I dont think I want to meet the 9 year old girl who wants to learn how to fire an Uzi.

Yes, because I'm sure it was entirely her idea.

The range owner said it was:

"This was a very mature young lady, and something she wanted to do and her parents her treating her," he said of the 9-year-old. "This was something that was high on her bucket list to do, and her parents took her out to do what she was going to do."

I wonder where blowing away a grown adult was on her bucket list.


4th, after shooting a guy with an uzi

/i keed i keed
 
2014-08-28 06:50:47 PM  
yep, anytime we are talking about either Bullets or Billions, we're talking 'bout 'murrca.
 
2014-08-28 06:52:17 PM  
and another thing, that 9 year old girl should be sent straight to her room with no supper!   the nerve!
 
2014-08-28 06:53:31 PM  

vernonFL: I dont think I want to meet the 9 year old girl who wants to learn how to fire an Uzi.



well, Psychopaths have to start somewhere.  either that or she thinks everything is a movie/TV.
 
2014-08-28 06:55:00 PM  

Serious Black: thisisyourbrainonFark: vernonFL: I dont think I want to meet the 9 year old girl who wants to learn how to fire an Uzi.

Yes, because I'm sure it was entirely her idea.

The range owner said it was:

"This was a very mature young lady, and something she wanted to do and her parents her treating her," he said of the 9-year-old. "This was something that was high on her bucket list to do, and her parents took her out to do what she was going to do."

I wonder where blowing away a grown adult was on her bucket list.


Wha what?! Knocking out a 9 year olds bucket list? Lemme get this straight, if "getting laid just once" were on her list of things to do before she died, her parents wouldn't think "maybe theres a more appropriate age for her to check this one off."
 
2014-08-28 07:01:37 PM  

udhq: You'd think the NRA would want to clean its own house of that mindset.


You'd definitely be mistaken.  Perhaps at some point the NRA consisted of intelligent, responsible gun owners, and perhaps at some point in the future the same can be said.  But for a good few years, if not decades, up to the present, I wouldn't figure them to be interested in anything of the sort.
 
2014-08-28 07:02:06 PM  
Look, the entire thing reeks of bad judgment on the part of all the adults involved.

I'm not opposed to teaching a kid how to shoot, I learned myself at about age 6 or 7, but those first years were limited to the .22 rifle and when I was like 9 a .410 shotgun at the trap range - I was a tall kid but that .410 was pretty big - dad let me take one shot with his 12 and it was not something I wanted to do again for a while.
 
2014-08-28 07:02:14 PM  
I thin them main thing is a lack of gun safety training and normalization. We need to teach kids how to handle guns in school and allow them to bring firearms for personal safety and open carry in class.
 
2014-08-28 07:03:20 PM  

DamnYankees: How often are kids killed by guns at gun ranges? I would have to imagine its a really tiny number, right? Just because it happened this week doesn't all the sudden make it a policy issue.

I'm as anti-gun as you're gonna get on Fark, but I'm not sure this makes sense.


Que?
 
2014-08-28 07:03:40 PM  

mutterfark: I feel bad for the child.


Ditto....the adults in charge should have known better.
 
2014-08-28 07:03:43 PM  

Doctor Funfrock: Wha what?! Knocking out a 9 year olds bucket list? Lemme get this straight, if "getting laid just once" were on her list of things to do before she died, her parents wouldn't think "maybe theres a more appropriate age for her to check this one off."


This, too.  What nine year old HAS a bucket list?  I get that they're old enough to grasp the concept of death (and she sure as sh*t grasps it now), but a bucket list?
 
2014-08-28 07:05:07 PM  
A significant problem is that "gun nuts" will attempt to shift debate by quibbling on the definition of "military weapon". For that reason, those who advocate reasonable, common-sense firearm regulation measures should pre-empt their complaints with a definition that cannot be challenged, and that any reasonable person would accept as a valid definition of the term "military weapon".

A "military weapon" is any firearm currently or previously used by any military service, or a firearm functionally identical to one.

Now that the terminology is settled, the real question should be asked: what use has any citizen for a "military weapon"? Should we not instead be pushing to prohibit entirely civilian ownership of such firearms, rather than merely attempt to keep them out of the hands of children?
 
2014-08-28 07:05:38 PM  

Serious Black: I wonder where blowing away a grown adult was on her bucket list.


Well it's now crossed off.
 
2014-08-28 07:06:54 PM  
wow, i'm the first to reference to  toys?
 
2014-08-28 07:07:27 PM  

Recoil Therapy: Hmmm, I just noticed the satire tag..... what was that tasty curved metal thing that I was chewing on earlier?
Besides, DY was already hanging on one, it must be good to swallow, right?

 /In my defense, being in the New Yorker it was within the realm of being plausible that it was serious.


just updated your favorite status from "flaming awful gun nut farkwad" to "extremely dimwitted flaming gun nut farkwad".
 
2014-08-28 07:10:34 PM  

The_Sponge: mutterfark: I feel bad for the child.

Ditto....the adults in charge should have known better.


Sadly, it won't end there for this poor kid. Now she gets to be everybody with an agenda' s political football. Adult indulgence cost a man a life and this poor girl her future. F***ed up story all around.

/slight disclosure, learned to use weapons beginning at 11 under strict adult supervision, have no problem with children taught to use weapons correctly
 
2014-08-28 07:11:05 PM  

Dimensio: A significant problem is that "gun nuts" will attempt to shift debate by quibbling on the definition of "military weapon". For that reason, those who advocate reasonable, common-sense firearm regulation measures should pre-empt their complaints with a definition that cannot be challenged, and that any reasonable person would accept as a valid definition of the term "military weapon".

A "military weapon" is any firearm currently or previously used by any military service, or a firearm functionally identical to one.

Now that the terminology is settled, the real question should be asked: what use has any citizen for a "military weapon"? Should we not instead be pushing to prohibit entirely civilian ownership of such firearms, rather than merely attempt to keep them out of the hands of children?


That one is way too subtle to hook people.
 
2014-08-28 07:14:03 PM  

Doctor Funfrock: Serious Black: thisisyourbrainonFark: vernonFL: I dont think I want to meet the 9 year old girl who wants to learn how to fire an Uzi.

Yes, because I'm sure it was entirely her idea.

The range owner said it was:

"This was a very mature young lady, and something she wanted to do and her parents her treating her," he said of the 9-year-old. "This was something that was high on her bucket list to do, and her parents took her out to do what she was going to do."

I wonder where blowing away a grown adult was on her bucket list.

Wha what?! Knocking out a 9 year olds bucket list? Lemme get this straight, if "getting laid just once" were on her list of things to do before she died, her parents wouldn't think "maybe theres a more appropriate age for her to check this one off."


Not only that but "I need to do this before I die" is definitely something a 9 year old needs to be thinking of.
 
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