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(The Verge)   To prove that misogyny doesn't exist in games, trolls drive Anita Sarkeesian, the creator of a video series examining misogynistic depictions of women in video games, out of her home with death threats   (theverge.com) divider line 580
    More: Scary  
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2492 clicks; posted to Geek » on 28 Aug 2014 at 1:48 PM (12 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-28 11:06:32 AM  
Fark handle was also reported
 
2014-08-28 11:13:40 AM  
If nobody can say that misogyny exists, then it must not exist! QED
 
2014-08-28 11:19:21 AM  
This thread will be no different than all the others.  People who don't understand the slightest thing about the design of videogames will use emotionally-charged issues in order to fill the void.

Oddly enough, that fits Sarkeesian to a tee.  The only difference is that she made a killing by pandering to you fools while you completely miss the point for free.
 
2014-08-28 11:24:14 AM  
Strange most the complaining I heard about Depression Quest was about DMCA-usage and reporting ethics.
 
2014-08-28 11:26:34 AM  

Mike_LowELL: This thread will be no different than all the others.  People who don't understand the slightest thing about the design of videogames will use emotionally-charged issues in order to fill the void.

Oddly enough, that fits Sarkeesian to a tee.


But not to a wet tee, because that is against the rules.

Well, rules 1-33.
 
2014-08-28 11:34:26 AM  
Okay, on reading the article, I didn't mean to make light of someone who has received death threats.
 
2014-08-28 11:38:00 AM  
Well, that's pretty farked up right there....
 
2014-08-28 11:49:17 AM  
Gentlemen, don thy fedoras.
 
2014-08-28 11:53:09 AM  
You have to be a pretty small, twisted person to respond to a sociological debate with threats of rape and death.
 
2014-08-28 11:55:06 AM  
This shiat is a problem.  I've watched some of her videos and she makes good points. Unfortunately, there is a great farkwad contingent on the internet that can't handle women discussing their hobbies.
 
2014-08-28 11:59:54 AM  

James!: This shiat is a problem.  I've watched some of her videos and she makes good points. Unfortunately, there is a great farkwad contingent on the internet that can't handle women discussing their hobbies.


10 years later (it was posted in 2004), this damn thing is still true. And it's sad.

c1.staticflickr.com
 
2014-08-28 12:00:56 PM  

sigdiamond2000: Gentlemen, don thy fedoras.


The Fedorians were my favorite race in Star Trek.
img1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-08-28 12:07:39 PM  

RexTalionis: James!: This shiat is a problem.  I've watched some of her videos and she makes good points. Unfortunately, there is a great farkwad contingent on the internet that can't handle women discussing their hobbies.

10 years later (it was posted in 2004), this damn thing is still true. And it's sad.

[c1.staticflickr.com image 500x254]


I don't think these people could've ever been considered "normal."
 
2014-08-28 12:07:40 PM  

Mike_LowELL: The only difference is that she made a killing


Phrasing?
 
2014-08-28 12:07:44 PM  

ginandbacon: You have to be a pretty small, twisted person to respond to a sociological debate with threats of rape and death.


www.holidaypartysos.com
 
2014-08-28 12:20:37 PM  

RexTalionis: James!: This shiat is a problem.  I've watched some of her videos and she makes good points. Unfortunately, there is a great farkwad contingent on the internet that can't handle women discussing their hobbies.

10 years later (it was posted in 2004), this damn thing is still true. And it's sad.

[c1.staticflickr.com image 500x254]


Luckily more websites are hanging "NO farkWADS" signs on their front pages.  The farkwads are pissed, but that's more of a feature than a flaw.
 
2014-08-28 12:23:21 PM  

Mike_LowELL: This thread will be no different than all the others.  People who don't understand the slightest thing about the design of videogames will use emotionally-charged issues in order to fill the void.

Oddly enough, that fits Sarkeesian to a tee.  The only difference is that she made a killing by pandering to you fools while you completely miss the point for free.



Should that have made any sense?

Because it didn't.
 
2014-08-28 12:37:56 PM  

ginandbacon: You have to be a pretty small, twisted person to respond to a sociological debate with threats of rape and death.


In other words, someone who takes people criticizing their video games very, very seriously.
 
2014-08-28 12:41:24 PM  
Hey, game playing assholes
i.imgur.com


/I Think this whole thing is quite possibly the biggest, and most horrifying example to date of Lewis' Law
 
2014-08-28 12:51:54 PM  
That's farked up. That being said, I'd give her a place to stay for the night.

/I'm getting a time out for this, aren't I?
 
2014-08-28 12:59:15 PM  

nmrsnr: That's farked up. That being said, I'd give her a place to stay for the night.

/I'm getting a time out for this, aren't I?


HAHA, she got death threats! I'd bang her!!!

Is this where you want to be when jesus comes back?
 
2014-08-28 01:03:07 PM  
Part of the problem with Lewis's Law is that trolls zero in on people's specific weaknesses.  Somebody who makes a living complaining about misogyny is going to be targeted with misogyny, just like somebody who makes a living complaining about racism is going to get targeted with racism.  Trolls don't mean the hurtful things they say genuinely, just the hurtful intent behind them.

So yeah, these guys are jackasses, many of whom belong in prison.  But let's still be careful not to go overboard with anti-sexist rules and enforcement.
 
2014-08-28 01:06:56 PM  

Theaetetus: Mike_LowELL: The only difference is that she made a killing

Phrasing?


I'll live with it.

Blues_X: Should that have made any sense?

Because it didn't.


Makes perfect sense to me.  If you don't actually understand the design of the games themselves---the things which make videogames inherently interesting as a medium---then you have to rely on ancillary subjects and topics in order to hold and maintain that interest.  It's the same reason you have "games as art" and "e-Sports", both of which exist to validate your videogaming habits to others.  One proves "GAMES ARE REALLY ARTISTIC MOM I SWEAR", the other proves "GAMES ARE SPORTS MOM I SWEAR", and both validate the time you "wasted on games".  It's also the same reason that many people put down lots of money on sporting events, because in lieu of actually understanding they're watching, they have to inject some sort of personal stakes in order to keep the action interesting.

In the case of Anita and company, "GAMES ARE SEXIST" allows you to inject a completely unrelated emotional issue into the discussion of the games.  Instead of bringing up perfectly valid points of contention like "I want videogame characters to have more complex backstories" and "Bikini chainmail is aesthetically inconsistent with the game world you're trying to present", you just shiat up the debate, delegitimize any actual discussion of the games, and use discussion of the games as a springboard for whatever gender issue you want to trot out.  Because if you don't actually understand the design of the games, then you have to rely on ancillary subjects.  And yes, I repeated for emphasis.
 
2014-08-28 01:12:28 PM  

Mike_LowELL: If you don't actually understand the design of the games themselves


Meanwhile, you're wanted in the other thread, where we're discussing your "there never are toxic environments in multiplayer deathmatch games" hypothesis.
 
2014-08-28 01:20:05 PM  

Mike_LowELL: If you don't actually understand the design of the games themselves---the things which make videogames inherently interesting as a medium---then you have to rely on ancillary subjects and topics in order to hold and maintain that interest....

In the case of Anita and company, "GAMES ARE SEXIST" allows you to inject a completely unrelated emotional issue into the discussion of the games.


I don't see how your criticism makes sense - Anita is discussing sexism in gaming. That does not indicate she doesn't understand game design, nor does it suggest she does. The presence or absence of her understanding of game design doesn't magically make sexism exist or not exist in gaming.
In fact, suggesting that someone not be allowed to discuss the presence or absence of sexism in games based on an arbitrary ruling from you as to whether they "understand the design of the games themselves" is itself suspect... Is it possible that you contend that she doesn't understand the design of games because she's female, and wouldn't that be sexist?

And the ruling is arbitrary... What is your definition of "understanding game design" - does she have to have played games? Does she have to be a developer? Does she have to have a Doctorate in game design? What if she knows one particular game really, really well, but hasn't played another - does she "understand" game design, or does it become a "no true [understander-er of game design]" fallacy? Particularly when you're not actually criticizing her game design ability, but rather, her discussion of sexism in games?
 
2014-08-28 01:22:52 PM  

James!: HAHA, she got death threats! I'd bang her!!!

Is this where you want to be when jesus comes back?


Using Jesus on me is entirely the wrong tack to take, but that's beside the point.

This is where it gets interesting, because the implication of the joke is entirely not about the death threat. The opening is that the death threats are messed up, and entirely unwarranted and unacceptable. The joke also does not imply coercion on my part, as it is merely an offer, one she is perfectly able to refuse. The objectionable part of the joke may be in that it objectifies her, which is certainly one interpretation. Another is that I am attracted to strong, intelligent, outspoken women, and though the situation she has been put in is deplorable, it might be to my benefit. And pretending we don't make jokes on the poorer side of taste on this site is just silly:

"Natalie Wood's sister claims to know who really killed her, plans to never give up until Poseidon is brought to justice." HA HA, Her sister drowned!
"Intel and Michael J. Fox team up to promote new wearable computers, help shake out all the bugs." It's funny because he has a crippling disease!
 
2014-08-28 01:29:14 PM  

nmrsnr: James!: HAHA, she got death threats! I'd bang her!!!

Is this where you want to be when jesus comes back?

Using Jesus on me is entirely the wrong tack to take, but that's beside the point.

This is where it gets interesting, because the implication of the joke is entirely not about the death threat. The opening is that the death threats are messed up, and entirely unwarranted and unacceptable. The joke also does not imply coercion on my part, as it is merely an offer, one she is perfectly able to refuse. The objectionable part of the joke may be in that it objectifies her, which is certainly one interpretation. Another is that I am attracted to strong, intelligent, outspoken women, and though the situation she has been put in is deplorable, it might be to my benefit. And pretending we don't make jokes on the poorer side of taste on this site is just silly:

"Natalie Wood's sister claims to know who really killed her, plans to never give up until Poseidon is brought to justice." HA HA, Her sister drowned!
"Intel and Michael J. Fox team up to promote new wearable computers, help shake out all the bugs." It's funny because he has a crippling disease!


It's more of a Joe Dirt reference, so extrapolate the seriousness of the comment from there.
 
2014-08-28 01:54:19 PM  

serial_crusher: Trolls don't mean the hurtful things they say genuinely, just the hurtful intent behind them.


That is as close to an apology as we will ever get from you :)
 
2014-08-28 01:54:46 PM  

Mike_LowELL: This thread will be no different than all the others.  People who don't understand the slightest thing about the design of videogames will use emotionally-charged issues in order to fill the void.

Oddly enough, that fits Sarkeesian to a tee.  The only difference is that she made a killing by pandering to you fools while you completely miss the point for free.


...still doesn't justify death and rape threats.  And this is coming from someone who thinks she's mostly wrong, and mostly in it for the money.
 
2014-08-28 01:57:16 PM  

James!: This shiat is a problem.  I've watched some of her videos and she makes good points. Unfortunately, there is a great farkwad contingent on the internet that can't handle women discussing their hobbies.


I think the big problem with stuff like this is not only does it blunt other women from speaking out, it also blunts critics with genuine criticism from speaking out as well.  The former from fear of death and rape threats of their own; the latter from fear of being lumped in with those who would make death and rape threats.
 
2014-08-28 01:57:44 PM  

ginandbacon: You have to be a pretty small, twisted person to respond to a sociological debate with threats of rape and death.



"Any threats to the status quo must be dealt with in the harshest terms possible."
This is a shared philosophy of GOPers, Teahadists, and basement-dwelling neckbeards.
 
2014-08-28 02:00:07 PM  

James!: nmrsnr: That's farked up. That being said, I'd give her a place to stay for the night.

/I'm getting a time out for this, aren't I?

HAHA, she got death threats! I'd bang her!!!

Is this where you want to be when jesus comes back?


Which is weird because some of her staunchest critics are atheists.
 
2014-08-28 02:00:18 PM  

Mike_LowELL: In the case of Anita and company, "GAMES ARE SEXIST" allows you to inject a completely unrelated emotional issue into the discussion of the games. Instead of bringing up perfectly valid points of contention like "I want videogame characters to have more complex backstories" and "Bikini chainmail is aesthetically inconsistent with the game world you're trying to present", you just shiat up the debate, delegitimize any actual discussion of the games, and use discussion of the games as a springboard for whatever gender issue you want to trot out. Because if you don't actually understand the design of the games, then you have to rely on ancillary subjects. And yes, I repeated for emphasis.


So she deserves death threats and insults for it? She's sleeping at someone else's house, but oh woe is you, somebody wants to talk about social issues and tie them to videogames.
 
2014-08-28 02:01:42 PM  
"If the Internet was a dude, we'd all agree that dude has a serious problem with women,"
 
2014-08-28 02:02:58 PM  
Did anyone else notice the jump in misogyny related headlines on Fark? Has there always been this many and I just didn't notice until the new FARQ was announced?
 
2014-08-28 02:03:30 PM  

Mike_LowELL: This thread will be no different than all the others.  People who don't understand the slightest thing about the design of videogames will use emotionally-charged issues in order to fill the void.

Oddly enough, that fits Sarkeesian to a tee.  The only difference is that she made a killing by pandering to you fools while you completely miss the point for free.


most of a video game is just content tho, scripting turns the content into something the player can play with... but strip the scripting and there's a lot of stuff anybody can critique from their own unique POV

i've only seen a few videos of Sarkeesian's and most of it seems to be about content and the context of that content, certainly nothing that requires death threats...

i guess if there's one thing i've learned about video gamers is they have extremely thin skin and can't accept critique, one lesson movie makers learned a long time ago was that a movie should stand on its own and that if somebody gives it a scathing review or a viewer just doesn't get it - then that's on the movie to prove otherwise, and that jumping up and down screaming "unfair!!!!" really is a detriment to the medium - not a plus
 
2014-08-28 02:03:39 PM  

IlGreven: I think the big problem with stuff like this is not only does it blunt other women from speaking out, it also blunts critics with genuine criticism from speaking out as well. The former from fear of death and rape threats of their own; the latter from fear of being lumped in with those who would make death and rape threats.


I agree.
 
2014-08-28 02:03:52 PM  
That's farked up.  I hope they're caught, and the ITGs can spend a year or two in jail learning how it feels to be constantly threatened and perhaps learn to empathize with someone being called a biatch.

netweavr: Strange most the complaining I heard about Depression Quest was about DMCA-usage and reporting ethics.


I played through. It was alright. I think it might be better utilized in an environment like a psych/depression class rather than as a "hey everybody", just from a target audience perspective--I don't think it's really cut out for most gamers to enjoy.  I understand it's not supposed to be fun, but it's possible to enjoy sad forms of other entertainment--but not everyone does.

I got what I can only assume is the 'Good' ending, though if I play it again, I'll see if I can get the opposite.
 
2014-08-28 02:05:34 PM  

Ctrl-Alt-Del: IlGreven: I think the big problem with stuff like this is not only does it blunt other women from speaking out, it also blunts critics with genuine criticism from speaking out as well. The former from fear of death and rape threats of their own; the latter from fear of being lumped in with those who would make death and rape threats.

I agree.


Actually, let me change that - I sort of agree. I see that as a big problem with this stuff, not the big problem. The big problem is the way women are treaed
 
2014-08-28 02:09:59 PM  

James!: Unfortunately, there is a great farkwad contingent on the internet that can't handle women discussing their hobbies.


There are those douchebags who really feel that way, and then another whole set of douchebags who think it's funny or cool to pretend to feel that way.

It's sad and pathetic.
 
2014-08-28 02:14:05 PM  
Can we stop calling small-minded, petty and cowardly people who use the pseudo-anonymity of an Internet connection to harass and intimidate others "trolls"?

They're not trolls, they're criminals. Plain and simple.
 
2014-08-28 02:14:15 PM  

chozo13: Did anyone else notice the jump in misogyny related headlines on Fark? Has there always been this many and I just didn't notice until the new FARQ was announced?


I think there was a powder keg that had been simmering for a while, and the Zoe Quinn thing blew the whole shiatstorm to a boil, and likely influenced some acceleration of behind the scenes FARQ discussion that was already occurring.  So we've got the whole interwebz domino reaction to Quinn (and it's not just one chain reaction, it's a branching tree) at the same time as we're all getting used to the new rules (and even discussing them in a roundabout manner).  The politics thread usually has something on it about the GOP and war on women, but that's in a different context (sort of).

I mix my metaphors how I want. Don't judge me. You don't know me.
 
2014-08-28 02:17:05 PM  

Mike_LowELL: Theaetetus: Mike_LowELL: The only difference is that she made a killing

Phrasing?

I'll live with it.

Blues_X: Should that have made any sense?

Because it didn't.

Makes perfect sense to me.  If you don't actually understand the design of the games themselves---the things which make videogames inherently interesting as a medium---then you have to rely on ancillary subjects and topics in order to hold and maintain that interest.  It's the same reason you have "games as art" and "e-Sports", both of which exist to validate your videogaming habits to others.  One proves "GAMES ARE REALLY ARTISTIC MOM I SWEAR", the other proves "GAMES ARE SPORTS MOM I SWEAR", and both validate the time you "wasted on games".  It's also the same reason that many people put down lots of money on sporting events, because in lieu of actually understanding they're watching, they have to inject some sort of personal stakes in order to keep the action interesting.

In the case of Anita and company, "GAMES ARE SEXIST" allows you to inject a completely unrelated emotional issue into the discussion of the games.  Instead of bringing up perfectly valid points of contention like "I want videogame characters to have more complex backstories" and "Bikini chainmail is aesthetically inconsistent with the game world you're trying to present", you just shiat up the debate, delegitimize any actual discussion of the games, and use discussion of the games as a springboard for whatever gender issue you want to trot out.  Because if you don't actually understand the design of the games, then you have to rely on ancillary subjects.  And yes, I repeated for emphasis.


I think you think you are making a point here, but you don't actually seem to be.

You don't need to understand the design of the games to critic its story or character elements.  No more then I need to understand cinematography to critic a movie's story or characters.  And Criticizing those stories or characters is what she and others are doing.

By pointing out sexist tropes in the games, the people who make those games, by their own admittance, and seeing things form a new light.  The result?  We may get better games in the future, story and character wise.
 
2014-08-28 02:18:45 PM  
Honestly, I rather get threats on twitter than having my house raided by cops at random whims of twitch users.
 
2014-08-28 02:19:07 PM  
You know who a lot of gamers do this sort of thing to? Everyone. A huge contingent of gamers spew out racist, homophobic, sexist invective. A large part of it I think might be attributed to youth and an inability to control one's emotions, but there's also anonymity, and taking the game way too seriously. Another large part of it might be feeling marginalized by mainstream society, and needing a target to attack.

My point is, I guess, that these attacks are awful, but they're misogynistic by opportunity. If it were a black guy talking about racism in the gaming world, these assholes would attack his race. If it were a gay guy talking about homophobia, it would be a slew of homophobic comments. If it were a white, straight, young male making these comments, they'd find something to use against him.

In other words, this isn't misogyny - it's pure misanthropy, plain and simple. These people hate anyone who suggests that their behavior may not be acceptable, because they are emotionally stunted assholes. The truth is also, of course, that most of them are male.
 
2014-08-28 02:19:20 PM  

serial_crusher: Part of the problem with Lewis's Law is that trolls zero in on people's specific weaknesses.  Somebody who makes a living complaining about misogyny is going to be targeted with misogyny, just like somebody who makes a living complaining about racism is going to get targeted with racism.  Trolls don't mean the hurtful things they say genuinely, just the hurtful intent behind them.

So yeah, these guys are jackasses, many of whom belong in prison.  But let's still be careful not to go overboard with anti-sexist rules and enforcement.


a lot of people who troll and attack others online are average normal everyday people who for whatever reason feel powerless IRL and take out their anger/frustration on the internet because they have a disconnect between a person on the internet and a real person

what's really gotten bad is people getting attacked and threatened for even mundane stuff
 
2014-08-28 02:19:47 PM  
My wife gets a kick out of all this but she's too busy playing games to care.

i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2014-08-28 02:20:03 PM  
My nephew has been an avid gamer since birth (or just about). He gave a Ted Talk in Chapel Hill about a year ago on the subject of misogyny on gamer culture, if you're interested...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPYcASQL_IA
 
2014-08-28 02:20:54 PM  
I have seen some of her videos before. Some of her points are obvious and correct. I don't support all of her points and remember thinking some of them were hyperbolic and idiotic.
 
2014-08-28 02:22:14 PM  

skozlaw: Can we stop calling small-minded, petty and cowardly people who use the pseudo-anonymity of an Internet connection to harass and intimidate others "trolls"?

They're not trolls, they're criminals. Plain and simple.


Correct. Trolls don't harass people, they just sucker them in and waste time.
 
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