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(Some Guy)   What do you call 1,000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean? A bane on the economy and social injustice for low-income people   (nakedcapitalism.com) divider line 103
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6564 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Aug 2014 at 4:19 PM (38 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-28 03:25:38 PM  
I thought it was a good start. My joke manual clearly states it was a good start. I'm contacting my lawyer.
 
2014-08-28 04:21:12 PM  
A while ago, I exchanged lawyers with MBA's... for a better start.
 
2014-08-28 04:23:32 PM  
Can you imagine a world without lawyers?

31.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-08-28 04:25:48 PM  
Their blog sucks.
 
2014-08-28 04:26:46 PM  
More lawyers? For what? Binding arbitration?
 
2014-08-28 04:27:59 PM  
Lawyers are the worst of humanity. They should be shunned from every part of society. They can pursue their lifestyle choice out of sight from the rest of us, live in a van down by the river, even better, move out of state. There should be a national registry so we know exactly where they are they are, at all times, and prohibit them from living within 1500 feet of a preschool, school, or other place children gather. They should be required to identify themselves as lawyers in every commercial transaction, just so everyone knows what sort of 'human' they're dealing with.
 
2014-08-28 04:28:30 PM  
No.

Nononononono.

Any perceived need for more lawyers is a byproduct of a f*cked up legal system, and more lawyers will just f*ck it up more.
 
2014-08-28 04:30:19 PM  
blog.rocketlawyer.com
 
2014-08-28 04:30:48 PM  

StopLurkListen: Lawyers are the worst of humanity. They should be shunned from every part of society. They can pursue their lifestyle choice out of sight from the rest of us, live in a van down by the river, even better, move out of state. There should be a national registry so we know exactly where they are they are, at all times, and prohibit them from living within 1500 feet of a preschool, school, or other place children gather. They should be required to identify themselves as lawyers in every commercial transaction, just so everyone knows what sort of 'human' they're dealing with.


img1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-08-28 04:31:37 PM  
Maybe we could thaw a few of them out...
 
2014-08-28 04:32:49 PM  
Actually, I think they're looking for a very special type of lawyers...

who are willing to work for free.

on cases that aren't going to make them famous.
 
2014-08-28 04:32:50 PM  
If the lawyers would hold themselves to a higher standard and give penalties to those who commit open fraud, it wouldn't be so bad. But America's legal system is more of a buddy system that actively discourages honesty and integrity. And the higher it goes, the worse it becomes.

Here in Florida we have a state board of ethics that oversees attorneys. But once one makes it to being a judge or states attorneys, it appears that this board's function is to cover up fraud and corruption instead of policing it
 
2014-08-28 04:34:48 PM  

dwrash: A while ago, I exchanged lawyers with MBA's... for a better start.


Yeah, aside from personal-injury lawyers, most of the lawyers I work with are perfectly nice people who spend their days reviewing contracts. After working in law firms for the past decade, I've come to realize that lawyers are just a very specialized type of nerd.

MBAs are the ones who are purely profit motivated. They typically have to take a course on business ethics, I guess in the hope that they'll feel a twinge of guilt as they screw people over to improve shareholder returns, or launch their latest startup that they'll dump to the highest bidder.
 
2014-08-28 04:36:02 PM  
I have several friends who graduated from law school in the last three or four years, all from accredited, dumpster fire tier, law schools.  The only ones I know who have long term stable employment had family connections that gave them an advantage once they got out of school.  The ones who did not have those advantages have struggled to find stable employment and, when working, have earned pay that highschoolers would look down on.

From my perspective as a non-lawyer, the market looks pretty well saturated, unless you know the right people or went to the right school.
 
2014-08-28 04:37:35 PM  

StopLurkListen: Lawyers are the worst of humanity. They should be shunned from every part of society. They can pursue their lifestyle choice out of sight from the rest of us, live in a van down by the river, even better, move out of state. There should be a national registry so we know exactly where they are they are, at all times, and prohibit them from living within 1500 feet of a preschool, school, or other place children gather. They should be required to identify themselves as lawyers in every commercial transaction, just so everyone knows what sort of 'human' they're dealing with.


I agree with this sentiment except for one thing.  People cannot ever be trusted to do the right thing.  They are opportunistic, thieving, conniving, untrustworthy, dishonest, cruel, selfish, greedy, and a gazillion other adjectives that describe their unsavory nature.  In theory, lawyers are there to protect the people from those people.  In practice, they end up being no better than the people.

In other words, if you are going to blame lawyers for being scum, you really should look at the people that cause them to be needed to start with.  THEY are the real scum.

I'm not defending lawyers.  I'm just saying, society itself is to blame for them being needed at all.
 
2014-08-28 04:38:37 PM  
Even Lawyers hate lawyers. I think when two parties sue each other and I have my lawyer call your lawyer, that's the start. They agree to fight each other, get the biggest settlement, and keep almost all the money to split between them.
 
2014-08-28 04:39:15 PM  

lostcat: I've come to realize that lawyers are just a very specialized type of nerd.


lol, that's well put.

You want a bane on society? Get rid of the lawyers and see what happens. It is not by chance that it was an anarchist that suggested it in Shaespeare. I'm not saying that I'm standing between you and the Mongul horde.  But, there are a lot of good lawyers doing a lot of good work that does help our society move freely and improve.

Me, I'm just in it for the cash (it has sentimental value).
 
2014-08-28 04:39:36 PM  

StopLurkListen: Lawyers are the worst of humanity. They should be shunned from every part of society. They can pursue their lifestyle choice out of sight from the rest of us, live in a van down by the river, even better, move out of state. There should be a national registry so we know exactly where they are they are, at all times, and prohibit them from living within 1500 feet of a preschool, school, or other place children gather. They should be required to identify themselves as lawyers in every commercial transaction, just so everyone knows what sort of 'human' they're dealing with.


I get the feeling that the people who don't like lawyers have only experienced them in a courtroom/criminal/divorce scenario. They are the mean people who insist that you are a bad person and deserve to be punished, while your pathetic excuse for a lawyer can barely manage to disagree.

As someone who doesn't have that kind of crap experience, and who works with lawyers who don't practice criminal/injury/divorce law, it makes me sad that the same label is used to describe everyone with a JD degree who's passed the local Bar exam.
 
2014-08-28 04:40:29 PM  
what do I call 1000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?

shark bait.
 
2014-08-28 04:41:25 PM  
everyone hates lawyers, until you need one.

then you hate them even more.
 
2014-08-28 04:42:39 PM  
Rule 13: "Never, ever involve lawyers."

images.buddytv.com
 
2014-08-28 04:43:16 PM  
There are lawyers out there who provide a valuable and necessary service.  And there are an awful lot of sand-in-the-gears, rent-seeking, parasites who add negative value to society.

My own experience with lawyers, both personally and professionally, sure gives me the feeling that the parasites vastly outnumber the good guys.
 
2014-08-28 04:45:09 PM  

olddinosaur: what do I call 1000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?

shark bait.


I was thinking, pollution.
 
2014-08-28 04:45:18 PM  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: StopLurkListen: Lawyers are the worst of humanity. They should be shunned from every part of society. They can pursue their lifestyle choice out of sight from the rest of us, live in a van down by the river, even better, move out of state. There should be a national registry so we know exactly where they are they are, at all times, and prohibit them from living within 1500 feet of a preschool, school, or other place children gather. They should be required to identify themselves as lawyers in every commercial transaction, just so everyone knows what sort of 'human' they're dealing with.

[img1.wikia.nocookie.net image 380x252]


I live with my mom trolling should at least be concise.
 
2014-08-28 04:46:16 PM  
I agree that low income or disadvantaged people do need better more affordable access to lawyers. But why should that mean even more lawyers? For the past four years or so I've seen articles claiming America already has too many lawyers and not enough jobs for them.
 
2014-08-28 04:47:35 PM  

dwrash: A while ago, I exchanged lawyers with MBA's... for a better start.


I have a JD and MBA and am getting a real kick out of this response.
 
2014-08-28 04:48:40 PM  

olddinosaur: what do I call 1000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?

shark bait.


Sharks would never attack lawyers . . . whole professional courtesy thing.
 
2014-08-28 04:49:13 PM  
No Subby, that's called water pollution.  The best method of making organic waste like a lawyer into something useful is to dump it into the hopper of a depolymerization plant.
 
2014-08-28 04:49:32 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: No.

Nononononono.

Any perceived need for more lawyers is a byproduct of a f*cked up legal system, and more lawyers will just f*ck it up more.


I think we're done here.
 
2014-08-28 04:50:08 PM  
Part of the problem is that no one other than people buying big assets call their lawyer when things are going great.  Most people interact with lawyers when they are in a very bad frame of mind.  Very often lawyers have to gently, or not so gently, push their own clients to do what is required of them.  So, they end up pissing off their own clients unless they're very skilled manipulators.  If they're skilled manipulators the clients feel violated.  So, you either offend or creep out your client because there's no way to tell someone (for example) that they need to lay off the sauce and throw out their GF before the custody battle heats up without sounding judgey.  Then you ask for money.
 
2014-08-28 04:52:28 PM  

CowardlyLion: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: StopLurkListen: Lawyers are the worst of humanity. They should be shunned from every part of society. They can pursue their lifestyle choice out of sight from the rest of us, live in a van down by the river, even better, move out of state. There should be a national registry so we know exactly where they are they are, at all times, and prohibit them from living within 1500 feet of a preschool, school, or other place children gather. They should be required to identify themselves as lawyers in every commercial transaction, just so everyone knows what sort of 'human' they're dealing with.

[img1.wikia.nocookie.net image 380x252]

I live with my mom trolling should at least be concise.


img.fark.net
 
2014-08-28 04:53:05 PM  
So, the premise of the piece was that America needs more lawyers.  Sorry, lt/dr.  IMHO, America needs more lawyers about as much as it needs an outbreak of Ebola.
 
2014-08-28 04:53:24 PM  

CowardlyLion: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: StopLurkListen: Lawyers are the worst of humanity. They should be shunned from every part of society. They can pursue their lifestyle choice out of sight from the rest of us, live in a van down by the river, even better, move out of state. There should be a national registry so we know exactly where they are they are, at all times, and prohibit them from living within 1500 feet of a preschool, school, or other place children gather. They should be required to identify themselves as lawyers in every commercial transaction, just so everyone knows what sort of 'human' they're dealing with.

[img1.wikia.nocookie.net image 380x252]

I live with my mom trolling should at least be concise.


I barely have time in the day. I think trolls should provide executive summaries.  Or even an abstract. Or some not-too-busy graphical representation.
 
2014-08-28 04:53:41 PM  

too_amuzed: dwrash: A while ago, I exchanged lawyers with MBA's... for a better start.

I have a JD and MBA and am getting a real kick out of this response.


There is probably a special kind of hell for the likes of you :)  j/k
 
2014-08-28 04:53:54 PM  
If I were allowed to pick the 1000 lawyers---yes, you know who you are---then I would say it is indeed, an excellent start
 
2014-08-28 04:55:17 PM  

lostcat: StopLurkListen: Lawyers are the worst of humanity. They should be shunned from every part of society. They can pursue their lifestyle choice out of sight from the rest of us, live in a van down by the river, even better, move out of state. There should be a national registry so we know exactly where they are they are, at all times, and prohibit them from living within 1500 feet of a preschool, school, or other place children gather. They should be required to identify themselves as lawyers in every commercial transaction, just so everyone knows what sort of 'human' they're dealing with.

I get the feeling that the people who don't like lawyers have only experienced them in a courtroom/criminal/divorce scenario. They are the mean people who insist that you are a bad person and deserve to be punished, while your pathetic excuse for a lawyer can barely manage to disagree.


Not me - I've never been inside a courtroom, not even jury duty (I seem to get dismissed without even having to show up on my service days). But to a person, lawyers I've met are all selfish, anti-social, incapable of following society's norms, and are super creepy. And at every opportunity they'll make a point that they make more money, and therefore are 'better', than everyone else. You want to eat server's spit? Go to a restaurant with a lawyer who can't get off the phone long enough to respond to a server who just wants to take his order, and treats the server like an indentured servant, not like a fellow human being who just has a job that lawyers don't respect. Traffic laws? For little people. Common courtesy in public? Holding the door for people? Waiting your turn? Leaving your trash for other people to pick up? My rant above was ridiculous but these people really are scum. They really behave like they're better than everyone else and everyone else is dirt. If you want to see what a *real* class-divided society would look like, just be around lawyers.

As someone who doesn't have that kind of crap experience, and who works with lawyers who don't practice criminal/injury/divorce law, it makes me sad that the same label is used to describe everyone with a JD degree who's passed the local Bar exam.
 
2014-08-28 04:56:36 PM  
How do you keep a lawyer from drowning?

Shoot him first.
 
2014-08-28 04:56:52 PM  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: CowardlyLion: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: StopLurkListen: Lawyers are the worst of humanity. They should be shunned from every part of society. They can pursue their lifestyle choice out of sight from the rest of us, live in a van down by the river, even better, move out of state. There should be a national registry so we know exactly where they are they are, at all times, and prohibit them from living within 1500 feet of a preschool, school, or other place children gather. They should be required to identify themselves as lawyers in every commercial transaction, just so everyone knows what sort of 'human' they're dealing with.

[img1.wikia.nocookie.net image 380x252]

I live with my mom trolling should at least be concise.

I barely have time in the day. I think trolls should provide executive summaries.  Or even an abstract. Or some not-too-busy graphical representation.


Summary In Profile...
 
2014-08-28 04:57:01 PM  

IvyLady: Part of the problem is that no one other than people buying big assets call their lawyer when things are going great.  Most people interact with lawyers when they are in a very bad frame of mind.  Very often lawyers have to gently, or not so gently, push their own clients to do what is required of them.  So, they end up pissing off their own clients unless they're very skilled manipulators.  If they're skilled manipulators the clients feel violated.  So, you either offend or creep out your client because there's no way to tell someone (for example) that they need to lay off the sauce and throw out their GF before the custody battle heats up without sounding judgey.  Then you ask for money.


This. Lawyers are usually called after the client has farked up or needs someone to pull their ass from the fire. Then they get blamed for charging for that service.
 
2014-08-28 04:57:20 PM  

StopLurkListen: lostcat: StopLurkListen: Lawyers are the worst of humanity. They should be shunned from every part of society. They can pursue their lifestyle choice out of sight from the rest of us, live in a van down by the river, even better, move out of state. There should be a national registry so we know exactly where they are they are, at all times, and prohibit them from living within 1500 feet of a preschool, school, or other place children gather. They should be required to identify themselves as lawyers in every commercial transaction, just so everyone knows what sort of 'human' they're dealing with.

I get the feeling that the people who don't like lawyers have only experienced them in a courtroom/criminal/divorce scenario. They are the mean people who insist that you are a bad person and deserve to be punished, while your pathetic excuse for a lawyer can barely manage to disagree.

Not me - I've never been inside a courtroom, not even jury duty (I seem to get dismissed without even having to show up on my service days). But to a person, lawyers I've met are all selfish, anti-social, incapable of following society's norms, and are super creepy. And at every opportunity they'll make a point that they make more money, and therefore are 'better', than everyone else. You want to eat server's spit? Go to a restaurant with a lawyer who can't get off the phone long enough to respond to a server who just wants to take his order, and treats the server like an indentured servant, not like a fellow human being who just has a job that lawyers don't respect. Traffic laws? For little people. Common courtesy in public? Holding the door for people? Waiting your turn? Leaving your trash for other people to pick up? My rant above was ridiculous but these people really are scum. They really behave like they're better than everyone else and everyone else is dirt. If you want to see what a *real* class-divided society would look like, just be around lawyers.

As someone who doesn't have tha ...


Meh I know lots of nice lawyers.  They're all corporate lawyers though.
 
2014-08-28 05:03:53 PM  

Ethertap: I have several friends who graduated from law school in the last three or four years, all from accredited, dumpster fire tier, law schools.  The only ones I know who have long term stable employment had family connections that gave them an advantage once they got out of school.  The ones who did not have those advantages have struggled to find stable employment and, when working, have earned pay that highschoolers would look down on.

From my perspective as a non-lawyer, the market looks pretty well saturated, unless you know the right people or went to the right school.


You are correct. There are way too many lawyers entering the market today. We've got $10hr interns who have their J.D. and passed the bar. They simply can't find work. Unless you graduate in the top of your class from a top law school you are pretty much screwed in today's market.
 
2014-08-28 05:05:26 PM  

fawlty: You want a bane on society? Get rid of the lawyers and see what happens. It is not by chance that it was an anarchist that suggested it in Shaespeare. I'm not saying that I'm standing between you and the Mongul horde. But, there are a lot of good lawyers doing a lot of good work that does help our society move freely and improve.

Me, I'm just in it for the cash (it has sentimental value).


This. Attorney are scorned because most people's experience stems from a shiatty situation that arose before an attorney got involved. Oftentimes the best answer to a bad situation is the one that requires all parties to eat some amount of shiat.
 
2014-08-28 05:08:59 PM  
I get my legal advice from Uncle Jack Kelly.
 
2014-08-28 05:10:40 PM  

skinink: I agree that low income or disadvantaged people do need better more affordable access to lawyers. But why should that mean even more lawyers? For the past four years or so I've seen articles claiming America already has too many lawyers and not enough jobs for them.



I could not agree more.
There are too many lawyers, not enough jobs. And too many unrepresented low income people.
I love being a lawyer but I told an intern last week, "You love teaching, but want to leave it for the law?  Think long and hard about that decision,"
 
2014-08-28 05:11:09 PM  

olddinosaur: what do I call 1000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?

shark bait.


Or shark corpses.
 
2014-08-28 05:11:44 PM  

IvyLady: Part of the problem is that no one other than people buying big assets call their lawyer when things are going great.  Most people interact with lawyers when they are in a very bad frame of mind.  Very often lawyers have to gently, or not so gently, push their own clients to do what is required of them.  So, they end up pissing off their own clients unless they're very skilled manipulators.  If they're skilled manipulators the clients feel violated.  So, you either offend or creep out your client because there's no way to tell someone (for example) that they need to lay off the sauce and throw out their GF before the custody battle heats up without sounding judgey.  Then you ask for money.


This!
 
2014-08-28 05:13:31 PM  

Prey4reign: So, the premise of the piece was that America needs more lawyers.  Sorry, lt/dr.  IMHO, America needs more lawyers about as much as it needs an outbreak of Ebola.


Let's just add them to H-1B qualification.  Bring some in from India.  If it's good enough for IT workers...
 
2014-08-28 05:14:56 PM  

CrackpipeCardozo: fawlty: You want a bane on society? Get rid of the lawyers and see what happens. It is not by chance that it was an anarchist that suggested it in Shaespeare. I'm not saying that I'm standing between you and the Mongul horde. But, there are a lot of good lawyers doing a lot of good work that does help our society move freely and improve.

Me, I'm just in it for the cash (it has sentimental value).

This. Attorney are scorned because most people's experience stems from a shiatty situation that arose before an attorney got involved. Oftentimes the best answer to a bad situation is the one that requires all parties to eat some amount of shiat.

 
I do family law.  Just because you can't stand your spouse, or you hired me, or she hurt you in some way doesn't mean I'm supposed to hate her.  In fact, I didn't marry her you did.  I'm trying to help you correct that.  So, I'd be a lot happier if you'd get off my back about it since, you got yourself into the situation, not me, not the judge, and not your kids.  The biggest problem with clients in the family law field is not that they are wrong (they aren't), its that they lost their perspective and want to "win".  They may someday understand what divorce lawyers already know.  No one wins a divorce anymore than they win a hurricane.
 
2014-08-28 05:18:52 PM  

IvyLady: Part of the problem is that no one other than people buying big assets call their lawyer when things are going great.  Most people interact with lawyers when they are in a very bad frame of mind.  Very often lawyers have to gently, or not so gently, push their own clients to do what is required of them.  So, they end up pissing off their own clients unless they're very skilled manipulators.  If they're skilled manipulators the clients feel violated.  So, you either offend or creep out your client because there's no way to tell someone (for example) that they need to lay off the sauce and throw out their GF before the custody battle heats up without sounding judgey.  Then you ask for money.


That was great, now make Nickelback sound good!
 
2014-08-28 05:19:13 PM  
Additionally, with regard to rent seeking, the vast majority of the issues that people on fine sites such as this complain are due to lawyers are in fact due to clients.

Any good litigator has multiple stories under their belt of having to convince a client when to settle, or that suing will not help things, or what have you.  and Every one of those lawyers has a companion tale where the client said fark it, roll the dice and go to trial anyway. 

Lawyers generally work when a) someone is getting farked b) someone is really pissed off or c) both.  This tends to color things a bit.
 
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