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(Washington Post)   "I studied engineering, not English. I still can't find a job." Maybe you just suck?   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 387
    More: Fail, crack stem, office software, Penn State  
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10913 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Aug 2014 at 11:49 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-28 09:32:45 AM  
College isn't for on-the-job training.
On-the-job training is for on-the-job training.

But sometime in the 70's corporations realized that they could save a few dollars by neglecting to actually train their employees on how to do their jobs - by default we came to expect College to get you ready for work. But that isn't what college is for - it's for learning abstract ideas and deep background knowledge - the stuff that provides the context for the nitty-gritty that on-the-job training is supposed to provide.
 
2014-08-28 09:35:07 AM  
Nope, same thing happened to my brother.
 
2014-08-28 09:43:08 AM  
I studied Philosophy and I've never been without a job.  And I'm an engineer no less.
 
2014-08-28 09:53:01 AM  

Diogenes: I studied Philosophy and I've never been without a job.  And I'm an engineer no less.


The building collapsed because the I-beam no longer was feeling fulfilled as an I-beam and wanted to test other forms
 
2014-08-28 09:57:25 AM  
Businesses aren't looking for college grads, they're looking for employees who can actually do things - like build iPhone apps, manage ad campaigns and write convincing marketing copy. I wish I'd been taught how to do those things in school, but my college had something different in mind.

Yeah, this guy sucks.

The bolded are marketing jobs.

I find it hard to believe the ability to build iPhone apps is really a huge driver, and if he was decent at programming he shoudl be bale to learn it.

I can't speak for his major, but I did go to PSU and studied mechanical engineering. They had tons of opportunities for design projects with industry, and the in-house recruiting was awesome.

SOunds liek this guy wants a "cool" job doing marketing, or "hip" programming with iphone stuff but won't get off his ass to learn it.
 
2014-08-28 10:04:41 AM  

zedster: Diogenes: I studied Philosophy and I've never been without a job.  And I'm an engineer no less.

The building collapsed because the I-beam no longer was feeling fulfilled as an I-beam and wanted to test other forms


Spare me the metaphysics.  The I-beam failed because it wasn't truly an I-beam.  It may have been called an I-beam, but it was probably something else.
 
2014-08-28 10:11:19 AM  

Diogenes: zedster: Diogenes: I studied Philosophy and I've never been without a job.  And I'm an engineer no less.

The building collapsed because the I-beam no longer was feeling fulfilled as an I-beam and wanted to test other forms

Spare me the metaphysics.  The I-beam failed because it wasn't truly an I-beam.  It may have been called an I-beam, but it was probably something else.


I-beam, therefore I-am
 
2014-08-28 10:12:31 AM  
The comments attached to the article aren't very sympathetic to young Casey.
 
2014-08-28 10:16:53 AM  
Another "I went to college so I'm entitled" article.

Let me help


i65.photobucket.com
 
2014-08-28 10:29:12 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Diogenes: zedster: Diogenes: I studied Philosophy and I've never been without a job.  And I'm an engineer no less.

The building collapsed because the I-beam no longer was feeling fulfilled as an I-beam and wanted to test other forms

Spare me the metaphysics.  The I-beam failed because it wasn't truly an I-beam.  It may have been called an I-beam, but it was probably something else.

I-beam, therefore I-am


i.imgur.com
 
2014-08-28 10:51:50 AM  

liam76: I can't speak for his major, but I did go to PSU and studied mechanical engineering. They had tons of opportunities for design projects with industry, and the in-house recruiting was awesome.


Touting your ability to successfully navigate from one end of Hammond Building on a resume, is an instant shoo-in with some employers.
 
2014-08-28 11:06:02 AM  
by the time I left school, all of the software and programming languages I'd learned had been obsolete for years.

What the actual fark? Are they still teaching PL/1 and COBOL at Penn State?
 
2014-08-28 11:15:54 AM  

2xhelix: liam76: I can't speak for his major, but I did go to PSU and studied mechanical engineering. They had tons of opportunities for design projects with industry, and the in-house recruiting was awesome.

Touting your ability to successfully navigate from one end of Hammond Building on a resume, is an instant shoo-in with some employers.



Finding the quickest path from in Hammond to the Cafe was more my speed.
 
2014-08-28 11:25:44 AM  
http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/employment_occupatio n s/cb14-130.html

"74 percent of those who have a bachelor's degree in science, technology, engineering and math - commonly referred to as STEM - are not employed in STEM occupations."
 
2014-08-28 11:26:17 AM  
My computer won't let me fill out that McDonald's application.
 
2014-08-28 11:51:07 AM  

blatz514: My computer won't let me fill out that McDonald's application.


And now my screen is covered with ink and white-out
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2014-08-28 11:52:24 AM  
I studied English.  I have a job, and it is technical.

Please STFU about all the anti-liberal arts crap.  It's really, really, farking old and it just outs you as a corporate suckass.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2014-08-28 11:53:00 AM  

Anayalator: blatz514: My computer won't let me fill out that McDonald's application.

And now my screen is covered with ink and white-out


That's not white out there, Jones...
 
2014-08-28 11:53:30 AM  
I have a degree in English and I work with engineers.

So bite me?
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2014-08-28 11:54:39 AM  

zedster: Diogenes: I studied Philosophy and I've never been without a job.  And I'm an engineer no less.

The building collapsed because the I-beam no longer was feeling fulfilled as an I-beam and wanted to test other forms


Again, Philosophy is valuable, even if not in a monetary way.  A society that can't appreciate Philosophy and Art is a sick society.  Again... US corporate suckass-ism.
 
2014-08-28 11:56:02 AM  
I need to also chime in re: my degree in English (Journalism tract) -- I switched early in my career to Marketing and with skill, hard work and a little luck here and there I have never been without a job.

The degree is a stepping stone to help you start off.  It is not any sort of guarantee of employment.
 
2014-08-28 11:56:18 AM  

Yaw String: Another "I went to college so I'm entitled" article.

Let me help


[i65.photobucket.com image 791x1024]


38.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-08-28 11:56:38 AM  

Diogenes: zedster: Diogenes: I studied Philosophy and I've never been without a job.  And I'm an engineer no less.

The building collapsed because the I-beam no longer was feeling fulfilled as an I-beam and wanted to test other forms

Spare me the metaphysics.  The I-beam failed because it wasn't truly an I-beam.  It may have been called an I-beam, but it was probably something else.


The I-beam simply left the building, and that's all it meant. Nothing more.
 
2014-08-28 11:56:41 AM  
The group before me in college drug the administration kicking and screaming from doing things in Pascal to C++ (this was 20 years ago).

That being said, every job I've gotten has been from networking and knowing people.  There were also engineering students where I went to school that did really well on tests but couldn't do anything hands on as it completely baffled them.
 
2014-08-28 11:57:00 AM  
Creativity counts.  Nothing worse than a boring bullet point resume from an 'engineer' student that once read something about C++ one day...  Show some character.  Have side projects.  Be interesting.

Also you can figure out how to build an iphone app in a few days if you actually have skills.  See previous point about 'side projects'
 
2014-08-28 11:57:00 AM  
The worst thing that employers do is these awful interviews, then the employees start going along with it. I've been to quite a few job interviews and I've NEVER been asked to perform any kind of task to show that I can do what my resume says I can. Instead they ask about complete bullshiat unrelated to the job. I use interviews only as a means of judging my potential boss. I don't give a crap about answering their weird questions and I've outright refused a few times. Still got the jobs.
 
2014-08-28 11:57:04 AM  
When I graduated from Penn State a year ago ...

I found the problem.
 
2014-08-28 11:57:13 AM  
TFA doesn't say whether the author was willing to relocate in order to land a job. In my experience, that helps a lot when you really need a job and are having trouble finding one.

And if you're young and single (which the author likely is, as a new grad), moving is a much easier prospect than when you have a spouse, kids, and a houseful of stuff to bring with you. Sometimes, you just have to pack up your stuff and go where the job is.
 
2014-08-28 11:57:16 AM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: by the time I left school, all of the software and programming languages I'd learned had been obsolete for years.

What the actual fark? Are they still teaching PL/1 and COBOL at Penn State?


www.memegene.net

/did about 15 years of COBOL back in the day.
//wrote financial and insurance packages in Basic too, once upon a time.
 
2014-08-28 11:57:27 AM  
Computer Science Engineering
If I may be so bold: Computer Science < Engineering
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2014-08-28 11:57:38 AM  

swankywanky: I need to also chime in re: my degree in English (Journalism tract) -- I switched early in my career to Marketing and with skill, hard work and a little luck here and there I have never been without a job.

The degree is a stepping stone to help you start off.  It is not any sort of guarantee of employment.


To add on to that, University education wasn't supposed to be job training, either.  It was supposed to be about learning.  I think it's time to split off Universities and trade schools again.  Make universities about learning again and trade schools about learning a trade.
 
2014-08-28 11:58:13 AM  
i.i.cbsi.com
 
2014-08-28 11:58:32 AM  
also, I was reading this "article" again and noticed

"graduated at the top of my class in computer science"

and then

"the only real-world business skills I'd learned at college were how to write a résumé and operate three-fifths of the Microsoft Office suite."

so....you were top of your class in CS and can only manage Word, Excel and PowerPoint (I'm guessing)?
 
2014-08-28 11:59:02 AM  
While college has sadly become job training and not deep education, don't most engineering schools have unpaid or slave wage internships and co-ops to pad your resume?
 
2014-08-28 11:59:28 AM  
My degree was supposed to make me qualified as a programmer, but by the time I left school, all of the software and programming languages I'd learned had been obsolete for years.

Wat?  That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.  The skills used in learning a language can be transferred to another language.  You should have learned data structures, pointers, linked-lists, arrays, bitmaps, addressing, kernels, task basics, etc.  Those are base skills transferable to any language.  Or, you could have learned C and have your language be non-obsolete for the next 30 years.

This guy is focusing on the wrong things.  I suspect he's looking at one of those HR resume wishlists (the one's that list every single language, technology, and acronym in the requirements).  You don't have to know all of that stuff.  They're asking if you know any of it, not all of it.
 
2014-08-28 11:59:44 AM  
Just wanted to note that instead of taking the entire summer off to find yourself... the writer of the article could have tried being an intern, FFS!
 
2014-08-28 11:59:52 AM  
FTA:

Despite diligent studying, the only real-world business skills I'd learned at college were how to write a résumé and operate three-fifths of the Microsoft Office suite. My college education left me totally unprepared to enter the real workforce. My degree was supposed to make me qualified as a programmer, but by the time I left school, all of the software and programming languages I'd learned had been obsolete for years.

To find real work, I had to teach myself new technologies and skills outside of class, and it wasn't easy.



 img.fark.net
 
2014-08-28 12:00:00 PM  
FTA: The only real-world business skills I'd learned at college were how to write a résumé and operate three-fifths of the Microsoft Office suite.

Seriously!?

Have you tried asking, oh..I don't know...ANY 8 YEAR OLD IN AMERICA for help?
 
2014-08-28 12:00:04 PM  

d23: I studied English.  I have a job, and it is technical.

Please STFU about all the anti-liberal arts crap.  It's really, really, farking old and it just outs you as a corporate suckass.


I have a degree in Social Science and I'm a software tester.  I've actually been in IT for more than a decade. It's amazing that getting my degree taught me how to learnand that's the best skill you can get out of college.
 
2014-08-28 12:00:13 PM  

Arkanaut: http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/employment_occupatio n s/cb14-130.html

"74 percent of those who have a bachelor's degree in science, technology, engineering and math - commonly referred to as STEM - are not employed in STEM occupations."


Strange. I work in a STEM occupation and very few of my co-workers have STEM degrees. Maybe we can have a day where everyone just switches jobs.
 
2014-08-28 12:00:21 PM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: by the time I left school, all of the software and programming languages I'd learned had been obsolete for years.

What the actual fark? Are they still teaching PL/1 and COBOL at Penn State?


Hey.. there was a college I saw last year that canned their Java courses in favor of VB6 (which isn't even available or supported by Microsoft anymore).

Colleges are in THE racket right now... everyone needs a degree and they know that for the most part they could teach basket weaving as part of a comp sci degree program and students would still take it and not complain.

I see a backlash coming though.  The younger sibling of someone who just finished college with a masters in physical therapy and could only get a 35k a year job while saddled with student dept is rethinking his options.  Luckily, here in PA, Governor Rendell passed an awesome law here a few years back which guarantees any course taken in a community college would automatically transfer to any other state college.  So he bagged going to Chestnut Hill college and opted to go to MCCC for a few years and take courses till he decides what he really wants his degree in.
 
2014-08-28 12:00:21 PM  
You were a computer science major and didn't manage to pick up any programming skills in the course of 4 (or more) years of study?  Did this not raise any red flags for you?  I co-own a software consulting firm.  If I find someone just out of school who can write code even in an "obsolete" language, they can write code in whatever language we need. Either you can code or you can't.  If you can you can find work.
 
2014-08-28 12:01:16 PM  
"I studied engineering, not English. I still can't find a job."

In article:

"graduated at the top of my class in computer science"

You didn't study engineering asshole.  I'm sick of people with 6 months of Java under their belt throwing Engineer into their title.  Lawyers and doctors don't let people get away with this shiat.  Why do engineers?

Also you suck. 'My degree was supposed to make me qualified as a programmer'  WRONG.  A four year degree is not a trade school dumbass.  Go to ITT if you want that.

The entitlement from this one is overpowering.
 
2014-08-28 12:01:20 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Diogenes: zedster: Diogenes: I studied Philosophy and I've never been without a job.  And I'm an engineer no less.

The building collapsed because the I-beam no longer was feeling fulfilled as an I-beam and wanted to test other forms

Spare me the metaphysics.  The I-beam failed because it wasn't truly an I-beam.  It may have been called an I-beam, but it was probably something else.

I-beam, therefore I-am


There is no I-beam in team!
 
2014-08-28 12:01:22 PM  
Sounds like Casey needs to get out and network. I have an arts AA and I've done all right in the field of my choice (event services and corporate A/V). I'm a hard worker, know my gear, stay up on tech advances, put my customers first when possible, and can hold a conversation with just about anybody, from CEO to janitor. That's as close as I've come to a 'formula' for success after college and i don't think it's specific to my field.

/TL:DR: Assume everybody applying for the job has the skills and degree...now, why should they hire YOU?
 
2014-08-28 12:02:28 PM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: by the time I left school, all of the software and programming languages I'd learned had been obsolete for years.

What the actual fark? Are they still teaching PL/1 and COBOL at Penn State?


I'm betting he learned mostly on C++, and never actually bothered to understand the concepts, he just remembered on the "Do X to get Y" stuff, and now can't translate any of it. I've got programs in 3-4 different languages I'm expected to write and maintain right now, learning Java better at the moment to write something new. Welcome to the life of a developer.

If I was a bettin' man, I'd put money that he's just like the CS master's degree student in my graphics class that needed my help doing a simple application, and insisted on doing it a looping way because she "didn't trust recursion". Even though it was a recursively related problem. He's just chasing the money without actually wanting to put in the work necessary to do a good job.
 
2014-08-28 12:02:28 PM  
Our future marketers don't need to know the differences between advertising and marketing, they need to know how to sell things. Our future programmers don't need to be able to define computer science, they need to know how to program computers. Those are the skills that are most important, and they're precisely the things that aren't being taught

he's right.
 
2014-08-28 12:02:39 PM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: by the time I left school, all of the software and programming languages I'd learned had been obsolete for years.

What the actual fark? Are they still teaching PL/1 and COBOL at Penn State?


If he majored in the same thing my friends did at PSU (CSE), he wasn't learning those languages. Even the guy who graduated and basically became a project manager knew C, C++ and some other scripting languages (Bash, Javascript, and some other stuff).

If this guy isn't employed, it's either likely because of something he is doing. I only knew 3 guys from that program, but they were all pretty sharp and easily got jobs. Hell the PM guy left his job after two years to bum it across the US as a ski instructor and still got a job within a month when he landed in SD.
 
2014-08-28 12:03:59 PM  
To find real work, I had to teach myself new technologies and skills outside of class, and it wasn't easy.

Wait wait wait, life required you to learn something outside of class?  Thisisanoutrage dot jaypeg.  And then it turned out that a computer science major isn't the same as a business or advertising major?  Well stop the farking presses.
 
2014-08-28 12:04:04 PM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: by the time I left school, all of the software and programming languages I'd learned had been obsolete for years.

What the actual fark? Are they still teaching PL/1 and COBOL at Penn State?


No, he's right. I graduated in 2002 but upon trying to find a job I found that the languages we used in school (C++ most commonly) were not what employers were interested in. They were interested in stuff like C#, Visual "whatever", Java, etc. Realistically comp sci will prepare you to learn and use any language you want but that doesn't help your resume. Basically employers don't care about the "science" aspect of computing science.

Luckily there are other options besides just "programmer".
 
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