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(National Journal)   For the past year or so, US fracking has prevented gas prices from going bonkers every time some nut feels like getting his jihad on   (nationaljournal.com ) divider line
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734 clicks; posted to Business » on 28 Aug 2014 at 3:59 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



35 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-08-28 02:52:46 PM  
And all it's cost us is people's land being polluted and those people not being able to sue because of it.
 
2014-08-28 03:33:05 PM  
Unlikely tag died inhaling radon gas, I see.
 
2014-08-28 04:01:57 PM  
Speculators...greasy as the oil they buy & sell.
 
2014-08-28 04:08:01 PM  

Lando Lincoln: And all it's cost us is people's land being polluted and those people not being able to sue because of it.


Our only hope is some kind of "A Civil Action" scenario where these fracking companies get what's coming to them through some exploitable crack in their defense.
 
2014-08-28 04:08:44 PM  

Diogenes: Unlikely tag died inhaling radon gas, I see.


I figured from lighting their kitchen faucet on fire
 
2014-08-28 04:17:12 PM  
I think you mean DRILLING subby. Hydraulic fracturing is a process that is done to the gas and/or oil bearing formation after the well is drilled, logged and perforated.

Just about every gas and oil well EVER drilled has been fractured.

If you are against fracturing, then you are against hot showers, clean laundry and cooked food.

And I thought most of the posters here on Fark were college students.
 
2014-08-28 04:19:16 PM  
Good news, but it just delays us getting serious about alternative energy and delays all the idiots who like to complain every few years when gas spikes from getting more fuel efficient cars.
 
2014-08-28 04:34:39 PM  

nocturnal001: Good news, but it just delays us getting serious about alternative energy and delays all the idiots who like to complain every few years when gas spikes from getting more fuel efficient cars.


So let's raise the gas tax. Won't fix all of the problem but it will fix some.
 
hej
2014-08-28 04:34:41 PM  
I'd rather the gas prices go bonkers.
 
2014-08-28 04:35:26 PM  

Lando Lincoln: And all it's cost us is people's land being polluted and those people not being able to sue because of it.




Actually, the EPA is in the midst of conducting a study about fracking. It will be released in stages starting in a few months and concluding next spring. Per a conversation an EPA official had today with various representatives of the industry, the impact from spills (a cause of land being polluted), will be negligible.

Look for the paper in the fall
 
2014-08-28 04:44:49 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: nocturnal001: Good news, but it just delays us getting serious about alternative energy and delays all the idiots who like to complain every few years when gas spikes from getting more fuel efficient cars.

So let's raise the gas tax. Won't fix all of the problem but it will fix some.


I'd say we should at least use the tax to level set prices. Have it fluctuate so that the high water mark of price X is maintained, giving people a set price for fuel essentially.
 
2014-08-28 04:48:29 PM  
media1.giphy.com
 
2014-08-28 04:56:44 PM  
For assets (like oil) that trade on a global market, the price point isn't necessarily set by supply. I know we like to think that supply heavily controls price but that really isn't true.

Here is an excerpt from an old Bill O'Reilly interview in which he speaks with an energy market exec:

O'Reilly: We had that last year. The demand has gone up globally since last-but let's-wait a minute. let's walk through it so everybody understands what we're talking about. The Organization of Petroleum exporting Countries sets the price for a barrel of oil. And they keep raising it and raising it and raising it. Dick Cheney went over there and tried to say, "hey, give us a break." They gave Cheney the middle digit. All right? so they can, they can charge whatever they want to charge, correct?
D'Agostino: No. OPEC only sets the oil supply. . . . The price of oil is actually set in New York. . . .
O'Reilly: Is there a guy who says $125 a barrel?
D'Agostino: No. There's a huge market. It's filled with hedgers. It's filled with speculators. It's filled with moms and dads, average Americans. It's a big market that sets the price.
O'Reilly: somebody has to put the $125 on the barrel. Who does it?
D'Agostino: They're getting it from this market. . . .
O'Reilly: Who is "they"?
D'Agostino: The oil producers. They're looking at this, just like when you decide how much a share of IBM is worth. You look at the price on the New York Stock Exchange.

//Link to the source: http://fortune.com/2011/03/09/the-secret-group-setting-the-price-of-o i l-us/
//Comes from this book: http://www.amazon.com/The-Asylum-Inside-Global-Market/dp/0061766283
//The book is an interesting take on the history of Nymex
 
2014-08-28 05:43:36 PM  

Flargan: For assets (like oil) that trade on a global market, the price point isn't necessarily set by supply. I know we like to think that supply heavily controls price but that really isn't true.

Here is an excerpt from an old Bill O'Reilly interview in which he speaks with an energy market exec:

O'Reilly: We had that last year. The demand has gone up globally since last-but let's-wait a minute. let's walk through it so everybody understands what we're talking about. The Organization of Petroleum exporting Countries sets the price for a barrel of oil. And they keep raising it and raising it and raising it. Dick Cheney went over there and tried to say, "hey, give us a break." They gave Cheney the middle digit. All right? so they can, they can charge whatever they want to charge, correct?
D'Agostino: No. OPEC only sets the oil supply. . . . The price of oil is actually set in New York. . . .
O'Reilly: Is there a guy who says $125 a barrel?
D'Agostino: No. There's a huge market. It's filled with hedgers. It's filled with speculators. It's filled with moms and dads, average Americans. It's a big market that sets the price.
O'Reilly: somebody has to put the $125 on the barrel. Who does it?
D'Agostino: They're getting it from this market. . . .
O'Reilly: Who is "they"?
D'Agostino: The oil producers. They're looking at this, just like when you decide how much a share of IBM is worth. You look at the price on the New York Stock Exchange.

//Link to the source: http://fortune.com/2011/03/09/the-secret-group-setting-the-price-of-o i l-us/
//Comes from this book: http://www.amazon.com/The-Asylum-Inside-Global-Market/dp/0061766283
//The book is an interesting take on the history of Nymex


No, supply and demand functions here normally.  The thing is, the quoted prices are for oil  futures.  Therefore, people make bets what the supply will be at a set point in time in the future to determine the price.  That is, if people think a war will knock a certain amount of oil production out of service, they bet the supply will be lower and therefore are willing to bid higher prices.
 
2014-08-28 05:49:00 PM  

Flargan: D'Agostino: No. OPEC only sets the oil supply. . . . The price of oil is actually set in New York. . . .


They set the oil supply to set the price of oil. More oil supply, same demand? Lower prices.
 
2014-08-28 05:56:44 PM  

nocturnal001: Debeo Summa Credo: nocturnal001: Good news, but it just delays us getting serious about alternative energy and delays all the idiots who like to complain every few years when gas spikes from getting more fuel efficient cars.

So let's raise the gas tax. Won't fix all of the problem but it will fix some.

I'd say we should at least use the tax to level set prices. Have it fluctuate so that the high water mark of price X is maintained, giving people a set price for fuel essentially.


Where in the supply chain do you fix it. If I'm a gas station owner and you tell me that if I charge below $3.50 per gallon you are going to raise taxes to make sure the consumer pays $3.50 per gallon, I'm sure as hell never going to charge less than $3.50.
 
2014-08-28 06:12:23 PM  

Pick: I think you mean DRILLING subby. Hydraulic fracturing is a process that is done to the gas and/or oil bearing formation after the well is drilled, logged and perforated.

Just about every gas and oil well EVER drilled has been fractured.

If you are against fracturing, then you are against hot showers, clean laundry and cooked food.

And I thought most of the posters here on Fark were college students.


We demand sustainable small batch artisanal alternative energy!

People can go without, showers, cars and tv!
 
2014-08-28 06:13:56 PM  

Pick: I think you mean DRILLING subby. Hydraulic fracturing is a process that is done to the gas and/or oil bearing formation after the well is drilled, logged and perforated.

Just about every gas and oil well EVER drilled has been fractured.

If you are against fracturing, then you are against hot showers, clean laundry and cooked food.

And I thought most of the posters here on Fark were college students.


Shhhh. Also best not mention that those well bores are encased in about a foot of concrete, or that the actually fracturing occurs at the depth of the petroleum deposits 1,200-10,000 ft below the water table.

/water consumption is a large concern, though
//a single fraking site can use more water than a good sized municipality
///spills and site cleanup are legit concerns too.
 
2014-08-28 06:15:08 PM  

Elegy: Pick: I think you mean DRILLING subby. Hydraulic fracturing is a process that is done to the gas and/or oil bearing formation after the well is drilled, logged and perforated.

Just about every gas and oil well EVER drilled has been fractured.

If you are against fracturing, then you are against hot showers, clean laundry and cooked food.

And I thought most of the posters here on Fark were college students.

Shhhh. Also best not mention that those well bores are encased in about a foot of concrete, or that the actually fracturing occurs at the depth of the petroleum deposits 1,200-10,000 ft below the water table.

/water consumption is a large concern, though
//a single fraking site can use more water than a good sized municipality
///spills and site cleanup are legit concerns too.


Shills!

Shills, with your facts!
 
kab
2014-08-28 06:17:58 PM  
Because $3.50+ for regular isn't farking absurd to begin with.
 
2014-08-28 06:19:33 PM  

Geotpf: No, supply and demand functions here normally.


Normally it does but sometimes we get price spikes from speculation alone. (Heck you would be surprised how often larger buyers push a commodities price upwards off nothing more than the desire to sell it for a higher price.)

Geotpf: The thing is, the quoted prices are for oil futures.


Yes and futures do effect current price as contracts are eventually fulfilled.

Geotpf: Therefore, people make bets what the supply will be at a set point in time in the future to determine the price.


You can make bets for dozens of reasons beyond what the supply will or will not be. Supply is just one part of it and not always the biggest part. Alot depends on what is motivating the buyer. Again I like the example D'Agostino gave when he used stock price. Sure the companies future earnings, its plans on expansion, etc... all factor into the price but to say that the companies plans for expansion explain most/all of a recent price change is incorrect.

I doubt we are really in disagreement on this one.

I just wanted to point out that dozens of different things go into setting a commodities price and supply is just one.
 
2014-08-28 06:24:23 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: nocturnal001: Debeo Summa Credo: nocturnal001: Good news, but it just delays us getting serious about alternative energy and delays all the idiots who like to complain every few years when gas spikes from getting more fuel efficient cars.

So let's raise the gas tax. Won't fix all of the problem but it will fix some.

I'd say we should at least use the tax to level set prices. Have it fluctuate so that the high water mark of price X is maintained, giving people a set price for fuel essentially.

Where in the supply chain do you fix it. If I'm a gas station owner and you tell me that if I charge below $3.50 per gallon you are going to raise taxes to make sure the consumer pays $3.50 per gallon, I'm sure as hell never going to charge less than $3.50.


I am not sure of that part. Perhaps on the wholesale market level.
 
2014-08-28 08:06:08 PM  

Lando Lincoln: And all it's cost us is people's land being polluted and those people not being able to sue because of it.


And earthquakes.

And a shiatload of fresh water being polluted and/or injected beneath the water table, never to be seen again.
 
2014-08-28 08:30:02 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: nocturnal001: Good news, but it just delays us getting serious about alternative energy and delays all the idiots who like to complain every few years when gas spikes from getting more fuel efficient cars.

So let's raise the gas tax. Won't fix all of the problem but it will fix some.


Gas price jumps because an oil company charges you more: bad.
Gas price jumps because government charges you more: good?
 
2014-08-28 08:49:02 PM  

Lars The Canadian Viking: Flargan: D'Agostino: No. OPEC only sets the oil supply. . . . The price of oil is actually set in New York. . . .

They set the oil supply to set the price of oil. More oil supply, same demand? Lower prices.


You can't explain that.
 
2014-08-28 09:24:27 PM  
This is only true if you think the price of oil has actual causes.
Then again, you also probably think unicorns ride rainbows, so there's that.

The price of gas is set by the "because we feel like it" method. It has no cause.
 
2014-08-28 10:17:13 PM  

Pick: I think you mean DRILLING subby. Hydraulic fracturing is a process that is done to the gas and/or oil bearing formation after the well is drilled, logged and perforated.

Just about every gas and oil well EVER drilled has been fractured.

If you are against fracturing, then you are against hot showers, clean laundry and cooked food.

And I thought most of the posters here on Fark were college students.


They are. That's what is really sad.
 
2014-08-28 10:53:34 PM  

ds615: This is only true if you think the price of oil has actual causes.
Then again, you also probably think unicorns ride rainbows, so there's that.

The price of gas is set by the "because we feel like it" method. It has no cause.


Yeah, how did gas price get pegged into the jihad boys?

Wasn't the rollercoaster gas prices the national sport in US last year or the year before?

I don't drive much so I'm so out of the loop here.
 
2014-08-28 11:27:53 PM  
Nope, Standard Oil, I mean Marathon Oil keeps doing that here in the Midwest every-so-often with +30 cent price spikes.
 
2014-08-29 04:20:08 AM  
You know what else would insulate the American public from wild swings in energy prices due to foreign influences?  Renewables
 
2014-08-29 09:30:28 AM  
So what you're saying is that after the war in the Middle East, the terrorists actually did follow us home to the U.S.  Except instead of being Al-Quaeda, they were gas companies blowing up our country.
 
2014-08-29 12:57:02 PM  

kab: Because $3.50+ for regular isn't farking absurd to begin with.


Not if you compare it to what Italians pay for the same gas.
 
2014-08-29 05:36:17 PM  

RoLleRKoaSTeR: Nope, Standard Oil, I mean Marathon Oil keeps doing that here in the Midwest every-so-often with +30 cent price spikes.


Prices are up 30 cents today because of Labor Day Weekend. It's not just Marathon either.

I'm getting an electric car next time. Fark the oil companies.
 
2014-08-29 10:08:41 PM  

Pick: I think you mean DRILLING subby. Hydraulic fracturing is a process that is done to the gas and/or oil bearing formation after the well is drilled, logged and perforated.

Just about every gas and oil well EVER drilled has been fractured.

If you are against fracturing, then you are against hot showers, clean laundry and cooked food.

And I thought most of the posters here on Fark were college students.


ehh... you just have to realize some folks are never ever going to let facts guide their beliefs on some issues. Just deal with them like Truthers and talk as if they're not in the room.
 
2014-08-29 10:57:53 PM  

kab: Because $3.50+ for regular isn't farking absurd to begin with.


I just spent a week doing maintenance work in a refinery, so I'm really getting a kick...
/hydro-lancing heat exchanger tubes to blow the tar out
//if you knew what went into turning that barrel of crude into a barrel of gasoline...
///that "barrel" is defined as 42 gallons. Wonder of wonders if they get 147 dollars of gas out of 125 dollars of crude, isn't it?
 
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