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(Ars Technica)   It turns out Obama and Clinton started mass domestic surveillance with an executive order. Just kidding, it was Reagan   (arstechnica.com) divider line 65
    More: Interesting, NSA, humans, Ronald Reagan Presidential Library, feds, presidential executive order, COINTELPRO, whistleblowers, Emancipation Proclamation  
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1390 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Aug 2014 at 3:06 AM (16 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-28 12:40:27 AM  
Someone's beatification is going to be held up for this.
 
2014-08-28 01:00:44 AM  

SilentStrider: Someone's beatification is going to be held up for this.


On the contrary, he'll be hailed as a hero for keeping our nation safe from the boogie man. Can we please hail all the subsequent presidents for keeping the ball rolling too?
 
2014-08-28 01:33:33 AM  
Amazed it wasn't Johnson or Nixon.
 
2014-08-28 01:58:59 AM  
www.smokersassociation.org
 
2014-08-28 02:06:41 AM  

RobertBruce: Amazed it wasn't Johnson or Nixon.


It wasn't Reagan per se either. It was his VP George Herbert Walker Bush, son of Senator Prescott Bush who changed the OSS to the CIA. And remembering GHWB was the former CIA head fired when Jimmy Carter took office. Reagan the Delegator was thrilled that GHWB was working so hard on it, easily sold on it by GHWB.
 
2014-08-28 02:26:08 AM  
Looks like they're going to have to update this one:

img.fark.net

He launched a surveillance program that culminated in spying on every single person in the world - foreign and domestic - but damn, his movies sure made you feel good.
 
2014-08-28 03:13:36 AM  

Two Dogs Farking: He launched a surveillance program that culminated in spying on every single person in the world - foreign and domestic - but damn, his movies sure made you feel good.


I still haven't seen any of his movies.
 
2014-08-28 03:14:38 AM  
Furthermore, the inevitable media campaign which would ensure under an Order devoid of any guidelines or restrictions, with likely charges that the Intelligence Community or the Administration intends to expand collection concerning the domestic activities of United States persons, will necessarily have an impact on the attitudes of our operators.

This is from 1981. Sad that the "inevitable media campaign" didn't really start until more than 30 years later when a security contractor flunky flew to Hong Kong with a stolen thumb drive.
 
2014-08-28 03:19:41 AM  
I didn't see any mention of

upload.wikimedia.org

ECHELON
 
2014-08-28 03:21:46 AM  
buttonmuseum.org
 
2014-08-28 03:38:05 AM  
I didn't realize so many people were interested in my email. I guess I should spice it up a bit.
 
2014-08-28 04:03:54 AM  
Toward the end of Reagan's 2nd term, the GOP was concerned they had no likable, viable candidate. They knew they could not run GHWB. He was simply too connected with the scandalous presidency of Reagan.  Reagan's approval rating sank like a stone throughout his reign and his criminal administration saw unprecedented indictments. After polling, the GOP was shocked to find that Bush suffered so little amongst party affiliates. They found that Republicans simply do not care how terrible a leader and person he is. It only mattered that he was recognizable.
 
2014-08-28 04:15:45 AM  
I've long suspected that the government was listening to all my conversations. In order to foil potential government eavesdroppers, maybe I'd better polish up on my FARK sign language
www.40cozy.com
www.40cozy.com
 
2014-08-28 04:17:14 AM  
This was going to happen no matter who was in charge. To make it a R/D this is disingenuous. If the tech exists, or could reasonably exist, it'll be used. End of story. We're way past where the sidewalk ends. East Asia etc.
 
2014-08-28 05:25:35 AM  
The guy who turned in his friends to McCarthy black list? no not him
 
2014-08-28 06:05:48 AM  

Alphax: I still haven't seen any of his movies.


You're really missing out, he was fantastic in Terri Schiavo: The Movie.
 
2014-08-28 06:10:24 AM  

Hetfield: Alphax: I still haven't seen any of his movies.

You're really missing out, he was fantastic in Terri Schiavo: The Movie.


As Terri Schiavo?
 
2014-08-28 06:27:49 AM  

Alphax: Two Dogs Farking: He launched a surveillance program that culminated in spying on every single person in the world - foreign and domestic - but damn, his movies sure made you feel good.

I still haven't seen any of his movies.


On par with Rob Schneider.  That's how he had time to run SAG and become Governator of the Californs.
 
2014-08-28 07:28:13 AM  
This is why we shouldn't elect a Hollywood liberal like Reagan. He failed to understand the values of our founding fathers or of America's Greatest President - Ronald Reagan.

If he and our current leaders would just adopt the mantra of Reaganism then this country would be great again.
 
2014-08-28 07:37:30 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-08-28 07:56:11 AM  

Alphax: Two Dogs Farking: He launched a surveillance program that culminated in spying on every single person in the world - foreign and domestic - but damn, his movies sure made you feel good.

I still haven't seen any of his movies.


This Is The Army, 1943.  Reagan, George Murphy, Joan Leslie, Alan Hale, Kate Smith, and cameos by Joe Louis and Irving Berlin.

Here you go, to my knowledge this is the only of Reagan's full movies to be in the public domain (as it was an Army Emergency Relief project during the war) - and it might also be the only Academy-Award-winning movie in the public domain.  It's so gung-ho patriotic, it's almost nauseating to the jaded Internet-age palette, but beneath the trappings there are some catchy earworms, a few good comedic bits, and some really fascinating insights into American culture and society during the war.
 
2014-08-28 08:26:34 AM  
Oh man, and once that executive order was issued, there was nothing that could be done by any president since.  They just had to sit there and use it to punish their political enemies.
 
2014-08-28 08:38:52 AM  
In before the "libertarians" say they still favor small government and stuff and Reagan was different 'cuz reasons.
 
2014-08-28 08:41:07 AM  
Who is history's greatest monster?

The Right: "Obama!"

The Left: "Reagan!"

One of these two is lying ...
 
2014-08-28 09:06:34 AM  
It doesn't matter when it started or who started it.  The only thing that matters is when it stops.

Mr. President, tear down this server farm.
 
2014-08-28 09:07:14 AM  
i'm thinking had the tech been available back in his time that John Adams would have been the first to issue these orders. I'm also guessing that Kennedy would have used this tech under the guise of defeating the Mob.
 
2014-08-28 09:16:19 AM  
I tried to tell you people this when Reagan reauthorized the Patriot Act in 2011, 5 years after he died.  But you wouldn't listen.
 
2014-08-28 09:18:10 AM  
Phew. I was worried there for a minute that we might have to hold this President accountable for what's currently happening, but if there's a Republican that can be criticized for his past actions that'll serve nicely as a distraction.
 
2014-08-28 09:46:32 AM  

RobertBruce: Amazed it wasn't Johnson or Nixon.


Collecting meta-data was approved during the Carter years. It may have originated earlier.
 
2014-08-28 10:09:19 AM  

MugzyBrown: Oh man, and once that executive order was issued, there was nothing that could be done by any president since.  They just had to sit there and use it to punish their political enemies.


This makes Obama AWESOME NOW!
 
2014-08-28 10:10:06 AM  
So its like rescuing a dog that was beat by its owner and now that you are the owner you cant help but beat it also. There is nothing you can do except go with the flow staying your hand is not an option....

Or maybe the new owner of the dog is just a victim.
 
2014-08-28 10:20:09 AM  

robohobo: This was going to happen no matter who was in charge. To make it a R/D this is disingenuous. If the tech exists, or could reasonably exist, it'll be used. End of story. We're way past where the sidewalk ends. East Asia etc.


To be fair, there have been people on Fark (i.e. rhymes with Sadd1, MiniHead...) proclaiming Clinton as the father of mass surveillance and that there's no way a Republican would have ever started such a thing.
 
2014-08-28 10:33:49 AM  
www.popcornbag.org

Waiting for the inevitable arrival of the Fark Independents and their "REAGAN GOOD, FARTBONGO BAD!" arguments that are about as lightweight as a freshly popped kernel of corn.
 
2014-08-28 10:45:16 AM  

Rwa2play: [www.popcornbag.org image 425x282]

Waiting for the inevitable arrival of the Fark Independents and their "REAGAN GOOD, FARTBONGO BAD!" arguments that are about as lightweight as a freshly popped kernel of corn.


Thats a better discussion than "Obamas hands are tied, he cant stop himself, its against the law to not spy on Americans because Reagan." line of reasoning.

Would you agree?
 
2014-08-28 10:51:12 AM  

Giltric: Rwa2play: [www.popcornbag.org image 425x282]

Waiting for the inevitable arrival of the Fark Independents and their "REAGAN GOOD, FARTBONGO BAD!" arguments that are about as lightweight as a freshly popped kernel of corn.

Thats a better discussion than "Obamas hands are tied, he cant stop himself, its against the law to not spy on Americans because Reagan." line of reasoning.

Would you agree?


It isn't illegal. It is wrong.  Big difference.

And Republicans never objected before now and won't again if a Republican becomes president. The cynical opportunism (is there any other kind?) on this issue is comic and depressing.
 
2014-08-28 11:02:53 AM  

yakmans_dad: It isn't illegal. It is wrong.


He has instructed the DoJ on a number of issues in regards to ignore prosecution or following laws.

Marijuana, immigration, defense of marriage act....

Why cant he instruct the intelligence community to not spy on Americans?

Trying to shift focus onto republicans is just a way to get around criticizing Obama on the issue at hand.

We know republicans think domestic spying is a good idea when a republican is in the white house, and we know they think it is terrible to spy on Americans when a democrat is in the white house.

Where do the democrats who believed it was a bad idea to run domestic spying operations under a republican administration stand on a democrat doing it?
 
2014-08-28 11:03:43 AM  

Well, duh.

Saint Ronnie did quite a bit of evil, and while, sure, some of us screamed about it, most folks were too busy cheering at Cold War propaganda and hating those nasty Soviets to stop and ask questions. There's a reason conservatives worship Saint Ronnie - he managed to put a grandfather's paternal, comforting face on things even as he and his cronies busily changed this nation into the mess we've been dealing with for over three decades now.
 
2014-08-28 11:44:41 AM  

Giltric: Where do the democrats who believed it was a bad idea to run domestic spying operations under a republican administration stand on a democrat doing it?


All of the Democrats I know don't like it and have no problem saying such.
 
2014-08-28 11:53:28 AM  

Alphax: Two Dogs Farking: He launched a surveillance program that culminated in spying on every single person in the world - foreign and domestic - but damn, his movies sure made you feel good.

I still haven't seen any of his movies.


"Knute Rockne - All American" was the "Brian's Song" of its day, which, in turn, was the "Field of Dreams" of its day. I have no idea what today's equivalent would be.
 
2014-08-28 11:54:45 AM  

Free Radical: Giltric: Where do the democrats who believed it was a bad idea to run domestic spying operations under a republican administration stand on a democrat doing it?

All of the Democrats I know don't like it and have no problem saying such.


I haven't really met anyone from any side that likes it and have no problem saying so.
 
2014-08-28 11:55:31 AM  

Free Radical: Giltric: Where do the democrats who believed it was a bad idea to run domestic spying operations under a republican administration stand on a democrat doing it?

All of the Democrats I know don't like it and have no problem saying such.


Yet not one has said it yet in the thread.

Blaming someone else > criticizing someone you admire or voted for.

Blaming someone else will always take precedence.
 
2014-08-28 12:22:53 PM  
I don't care who started it.

I don;t care who increased it.

i don't care who is doing it right now.

It's wrong and it needs to stop.

/Hows that?
//I guess that pissed everyone off
///Meh.
 
2014-08-28 12:24:55 PM  

sugar_fetus: I don't care who started it.

I don;t care who increased it.

i don't care who is doing it right now.

It's wrong and it needs to stop.

/Hows that?
//I guess that pissed everyone off
///Meh.


Seems to perfectly sums up what needs to be done.

now can we get some of that freshly popped corn that someone offered upthread
 
2014-08-28 12:32:59 PM  

MugzyBrown: Oh man, and once that executive order was issued, there was nothing that could be done by any president since.  They just had to sit there and use it to punish their political enemies.


What political enemies are being punished?
 
2014-08-28 12:50:04 PM  

Fart_Machine: MugzyBrown: Oh man, and once that executive order was issued, there was nothing that could be done by any president since.  They just had to sit there and use it to punish their political enemies.

What political enemies are being punished?


Why do you think the CIA spies on congress?
 
2014-08-28 01:02:04 PM  

MugzyBrown: Fart_Machine: MugzyBrown: Oh man, and once that executive order was issued, there was nothing that could be done by any president since.  They just had to sit there and use it to punish their political enemies.

What political enemies are being punished?

Why do you think the CIA spies on congress?


CIA Director John Brennan admitting, after previously denying it, that agents in 2009 improperly accessed a computer drive used by Senate staffers to review classified documents. That enough?
 
2014-08-28 01:06:03 PM  

Free Radical: Giltric: Where do the democrats who believed it was a bad idea to run domestic spying operations under a republican administration stand on a democrat doing it?

All of the Democrats I know don't like it and have no problem saying such.


And then quickly turn the conversation back onto how awful Republicans are. The thing is, those of us with memories can remember just how vehement the opposition to all this intelligence agency abuse of power crap was during the Bush years. That set the bar for how loud the opposition can be, and highlights the contrast with now, where the volume has been turned down to a setting just above mute - loud enough to claim opposition is being voiced, but kept quiet enough to avoid causing any discomfort to those in power.

People have gone from wanting to make every conversation about the subject to only giving their opinion when presented with the issue, and it's not because things have gotten so much better.
 
2014-08-28 01:11:48 PM  

MugzyBrown: Fart_Machine: MugzyBrown: Oh man, and once that executive order was issued, there was nothing that could be done by any president since.  They just had to sit there and use it to punish their political enemies.

What political enemies are being punished?

Why do you think the CIA spies on congress?


Clearly it's a conspiracy.

/rolls eyes
 
2014-08-28 01:13:23 PM  

jjorsett: MugzyBrown: Fart_Machine: MugzyBrown: Oh man, and once that executive order was issued, there was nothing that could be done by any president since.  They just had to sit there and use it to punish their political enemies.

What political enemies are being punished?

Why do you think the CIA spies on congress?

CIA Director John Brennan admitting, after previously denying it, that agents in 2009 improperly accessed a computer drive used by Senate staffers to review classified documents. That enough?


Ok what political enemies are being punished? You didn't answer the question.
 
2014-08-28 01:23:52 PM  
 Sadly most conservatives won't even blink at these facts. The only fact that matters is whether it was a democrat or republican signing the order. They seem to have become immune to hypocrisy and cogitative dissonance.
 
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