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(KATU)   If you are waiting on the delivery of a 70-ton turbine, it's gonna be a little late   (katu.com) divider line 121
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16277 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Aug 2014 at 8:39 PM (9 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-28 10:09:03 AM  

bearded clamorer: nytmare: But what about the turbine? Is the turbine ok? Cause that will be expensive if they have to throw it out.

Is there an equivalent to CarFax for turbines?
I'd be pissed if I bought a turbine, only to find out later it had been involved in a rollover.


Those are made to order, so somewhere there is a project manager who ordered this turbine 9 months ago.  He thought he would be up and running by Thanksgiving, and will need to wait another 9 for a new one.  They may be able to repair damage and the project will likely be cursed with components failing at an accelerated rate.

Mad Mark: I work for a company that builds silos & big tanks. Haven't heard of this happening to them. Of course i've only been there a few months now.


Once we had a huge filtration tank that took wide load escorts to move get in an accident and fall off the trailer.  I think we brought it back to our shop and we repaired it and had it out a week later.  I don't remember for sure, it wasn't my project.  I imagine turbines requiring more precision than you could trust from a wreck.
 
2014-08-28 10:26:04 AM  

Nem Wan: Trailltrader: Be happy it wasn't hauling antimatter and have the containment field open,,,,

Nuclear weapons are routinely transported on Interstates by inconspicuous trucks.  http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/nuclear-truckers


I have some CSB regarding those guys and the Air Force from my time working with nukes. Except they used Bad@zz Ford Econoline Conversion vans outfitted with some impressive electronics and goodies.  They have some darn good procedures and tactics to protect the cargo.  I have even seen some shipments that get gunship air support (escort more accurately since I have never seen "support" be required)
 
2014-08-28 10:45:16 AM  

PanzerPants: Nem Wan: Trailltrader: Be happy it wasn't hauling antimatter and have the containment field open,,,,

Nuclear weapons are routinely transported on Interstates by inconspicuous trucks.  http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/nuclear-truckers

I have some CSB regarding those guys and the Air Force from my time working with nukes. Except they used Bad@zz Ford Econoline Conversion vans outfitted with some impressive electronics and goodies.  They have some darn good procedures and tactics to protect the cargo.  I have even seen some shipments that get gunship air support (escort more accurately since I have never seen "support" be required)


I see this on trains in Indiana once in a while

www.accidental.com.au
 
2014-08-28 11:01:10 AM  

ransack.: PanzerPants: Nem Wan: Trailltrader: Be happy it wasn't hauling antimatter and have the containment field open,,,,

Nuclear weapons are routinely transported on Interstates by inconspicuous trucks.  http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/nuclear-truckers

I have some CSB regarding those guys and the Air Force from my time working with nukes. Except they used Bad@zz Ford Econoline Conversion vans outfitted with some impressive electronics and goodies.  They have some darn good procedures and tactics to protect the cargo.  I have even seen some shipments that get gunship air support (escort more accurately since I have never seen "support" be required)

I see this on trains in Indiana once in a while

[www.accidental.com.au image 353x350]


What I am familiar with are the tractor trailers that are plain jane.  I was initially amazed at how they had no placards on the trailers but then as I became more involved realized the security implications of placing a big triangle that told passers by that there was fissile material inside that trailer.
This was all pre 9/11 as well so they have always been very tight with security.  Even blocking access roads to the destination with heavy construction equipment once the delivery had passed.  You weren't ramming another semi through that roadblock.
 
2014-08-28 11:12:50 AM  
Rumors that it landed on a Tesla are false.
 
2014-08-28 11:45:19 AM  

Bathia_Mapes: drjekel_mrhyde: ajgeek: ani23: ajgeek: nytmare: But what about the turbine? Is the turbine ok? Cause that will be expensive if they have to throw it out.

Oh the turbine is toast. 50 tons at even the 4 feet it dropped put the whole thing out of round. F=MA and M was huge.

Curious about the turbines fate. Am sure there's some damage. Just wondering if its totaled or fixable

Pix don't say much

In the case of turbines the tolerances on them are in the 0.0005 in range. That's 5/10,000 of one inch on the "loose" parts. Other things have much tighter tolerances, particularly the drive shaft, which runs the entire length. The more that's lopsided (and these numbers start getting *really* small, in the millionths of an inch range), the more vibration during operation and the shorter the operational lifespan. When you buy a 70 ton turbine, you're spending real money and you *really* don't want that to die in a year. A rollover is a deal breaker, period.

/mechanical engineer (almost)
//Degree next may, FE exam not long from now.

What are turbines that huge used for?
/Just wondering

In this case its destination was Kingsford Manufacturing on Marcola Rd. You're probably familiar with the company name.


Now we know what it is and where it was going. What are turbines that huge used for?
 
2014-08-28 12:03:30 PM  

WayneKerr: Rumors that it landed on a Tesla are false.


It did, but it spun in the wind as it fell and charged its capacitors, which discharged into the Tesla's motors at the moment of colission, which generated 1.2 miligigawatts and sent the Tesla four seconds into the future (about 500 feet, or well past the next exit)
 
2014-08-28 12:05:30 PM  

Tobin_Lam: Bathia_Mapes: drjekel_mrhyde: ajgeek: ani23: ajgeek: nytmare: But what about the turbine? Is the turbine ok? Cause that will be expensive if they have to throw it out.

Oh the turbine is toast. 50 tons at even the 4 feet it dropped put the whole thing out of round. F=MA and M was huge.

Curious about the turbines fate. Am sure there's some damage. Just wondering if its totaled or fixable

Pix don't say much

In the case of turbines the tolerances on them are in the 0.0005 in range. That's 5/10,000 of one inch on the "loose" parts. Other things have much tighter tolerances, particularly the drive shaft, which runs the entire length. The more that's lopsided (and these numbers start getting *really* small, in the millionths of an inch range), the more vibration during operation and the shorter the operational lifespan. When you buy a 70 ton turbine, you're spending real money and you *really* don't want that to die in a year. A rollover is a deal breaker, period.

/mechanical engineer (almost)
//Degree next may, FE exam not long from now.

What are turbines that huge used for?
/Just wondering

In this case its destination was Kingsford Manufacturing on Marcola Rd. You're probably familiar with the company name.

Now we know what it is and where it was going. What are turbines that huge used for?


Making backyard BBQ charcoal fuel out of the wooden crates that parts for Ford automobiles are shipped in, apparently, since that's what they have been doing at Kingsford factories for the past century.
 
2014-08-28 12:22:39 PM  

ransack.: Tobin_Lam: Bathia_Mapes: drjekel_mrhyde: ajgeek: ani23: ajgeek: nytmare: But what about the turbine? Is the turbine ok? Cause that will be expensive if they have to throw it out.

Oh the turbine is toast. 50 tons at even the 4 feet it dropped put the whole thing out of round. F=MA and M was huge.

Curious about the turbines fate. Am sure there's some damage. Just wondering if its totaled or fixable

Pix don't say much

In the case of turbines the tolerances on them are in the 0.0005 in range. That's 5/10,000 of one inch on the "loose" parts. Other things have much tighter tolerances, particularly the drive shaft, which runs the entire length. The more that's lopsided (and these numbers start getting *really* small, in the millionths of an inch range), the more vibration during operation and the shorter the operational lifespan. When you buy a 70 ton turbine, you're spending real money and you *really* don't want that to die in a year. A rollover is a deal breaker, period.

/mechanical engineer (almost)
//Degree next may, FE exam not long from now.

What are turbines that huge used for?
/Just wondering

In this case its destination was Kingsford Manufacturing on Marcola Rd. You're probably familiar with the company name.

Now we know what it is and where it was going. What are turbines that huge used for?

Making backyard BBQ charcoal fuel out of the wooden crates that parts for Ford automobiles are shipped in, apparently, since that's what they have been doing at Kingsford factories for the past century.


No farking shiat. What does that have to do with the turbine?
 
2014-08-28 12:32:51 PM  

Tobin_Lam: ransack.: Tobin_Lam: Bathia_Mapes: drjekel_mrhyde: ajgeek: ani23: ajgeek: nytmare: But what about the turbine? Is the turbine ok? Cause that will be expensive if they have to throw it out.

Oh the turbine is toast. 50 tons at even the 4 feet it dropped put the whole thing out of round. F=MA and M was huge.

Curious about the turbines fate. Am sure there's some damage. Just wondering if its totaled or fixable

Pix don't say much

In the case of turbines the tolerances on them are in the 0.0005 in range. That's 5/10,000 of one inch on the "loose" parts. Other things have much tighter tolerances, particularly the drive shaft, which runs the entire length. The more that's lopsided (and these numbers start getting *really* small, in the millionths of an inch range), the more vibration during operation and the shorter the operational lifespan. When you buy a 70 ton turbine, you're spending real money and you *really* don't want that to die in a year. A rollover is a deal breaker, period.

/mechanical engineer (almost)
//Degree next may, FE exam not long from now.

What are turbines that huge used for?
/Just wondering

In this case its destination was Kingsford Manufacturing on Marcola Rd. You're probably familiar with the company name.

Now we know what it is and where it was going. What are turbines that huge used for?

Making backyard BBQ charcoal fuel out of the wooden crates that parts for Ford automobiles are shipped in, apparently, since that's what they have been doing at Kingsford factories for the past century.

No farking shiat. What does that have to do with the turbine?


It blasts a superheated low-oxygen low-moisture exhaust at the wood scraps in order to facilitate charcoalization of the carbons and cellulose
 
2014-08-28 12:39:50 PM  
With the help of google, "Kingsford Turbine"

It seems the turbine is used to generate power for the Ford Body plant from steam.  And they have a history of bad luck with getting them.

The power house was to furnish power for the saw mill and body plant. By June 8, 1921, two of the four Wickes boilers were in place and nearly bricked in, and work on the other two was started. The plans called for eight boilers with a total capacity of 2,400 horsepower - 300 from each unit. There was considerable delay in receiving a newly-designed Ford turbo-generator which would best supply the needed power. The turbine was first tested on site on December 5. A second and finally a third turbo-generator were installed, the last one arriving in early February, 1922. The three units would give the power plant a capacity of about 3,000 horsepower and would enable one unit to be kept in reserve as insurance against stoppage of operations due to a breakdown.
 
2014-08-28 12:50:03 PM  

Tobin_Lam: Now we know what it is and where it was going. What are turbines that huge used for?


Making Charcoal generates heat, lots of heat. You can either dump that heat into the atmosphere (or more than likely nowadays a heat sink using a water scrubber to catch any ash) or you can find a way to use it.

Some places use the heat to heat their buildings but those are usually pretty small operations and that's really only good for half of the year. In this case it looks like they want to use the heat to heat a boiler to make steam and then use the steam to drive a turbine and generate electrical power, probably to be used at the plant. You still have to use a scrubber at the exhaust end where the used up heat goes into the atmosphere but the air will be much cooler.
 
2014-08-28 01:00:12 PM  
Thanks for some actually informative answers. Not you, Rransack., your answers aren't helpful at all.
 
2014-08-28 02:01:34 PM  

Tobin_Lam: Thanks for some actually informative answers. Not you, Rransack., your answers aren't helpful at all.


No problem bro, I'm always glad to help out people who haven't heard about Google yet.

Welcome to FARK, btw
 
2014-08-28 02:46:59 PM  
Truck driver experienced in hauling heavy industrial equipment, such as turbines. Available for immediate employment. Can start Friday morning, if desired. Will work weekends.
 
2014-08-28 02:57:38 PM  

rolladuck: ajgeek: In the case of turbines the tolerances on them are in the 0.0005 in range. That's 5/10,000 of one inch on the "loose" parts. Other things have much tighter tolerances, particularly the drive shaft, which runs the entire length. The more that's lopsided (and these numbers start getting *really* small, in the millionths of an inch range), the more vibration during operation and the shorter the operational lifespan. When you buy a 70 ton turbine, you're spending real money and you *really* don't want that to die in a year. A rollover is a deal breaker, period.

/mechanical engineer (almost)
//Degree next may, FE exam not long from now.

Agreed.  Last week, I sent back a couple of pump mechanical seals because the box had been punched in during transit.  No evidence of damage to the seals, but when they're going on a device that could fail if there is a 0.001" flaw caused by the impact, it's not worth taking the chance.  Send it back to the factory for repair or replacement and get something you know is going to be in good condition.

/electrical engineer (kinda)
//work more as a project manager, but I deal with hundreds of tons of rotating elements
///that shiat is scary


I almost got a guy fired because the idiot decided to cut open a box of seals that were destined to go to a customer. Idiot thought I was receiving his supplies and not turning them over.

Fortunately the seals weren't cut, because the secondary packaging wasn't cut.

Man, that shiat it's over 15 years ago, I still wish he'd been fired
 
2014-08-28 03:00:28 PM  

Radioactive Ass: Mr. Eugenides: The lead time to build those is so long that it will probably be put into service after being overhauled because there's no other economically viable option.

The overhaul is probably going to take about as long as building a new one. Tear it down to the bare nuts and bolts, do a detailed inspection of every part including at a minimum the NDT'ing of every blade, gear and shaft looking for hairline cracks. Fabricate and replace anything even close to be out of tolerance plus every bearing, seal or other part that may get damaged even during a regular overhaul. Put it all back together. It may be less expensive in the long run but time wise I'm not so sure. I guess it would depend on how bad the internal damage is.

Seeing as this would be an unplanned overhaul the manufacturer may or may not have the people and floor space available right away which would only add to the time needed for a turnaround.

Then you still end up with an overhauled turbine that you might have a hard time selling just because of the reason for the overhaul. Maybe have a scratch and dent sale? Use it as a back up turbine and not one normally online? I don't know. I do know that the first time it got spun up to full power and under load I wouldn't want to be standing anywhere near it just in case it tosses a blade. I've heard the horror stories about that happening.


It is now a very expensive training tool.
 
2014-08-28 05:26:09 PM  

yellowjester: thecatfish: TheOther: Bathia_Mapes: Not gonna be easy removing that either.

Oh, just leave it unattended on the side of the road and somebody will snatch it up quick.
There'll be a 70-ton turbine on a table at the flea market Saturday morning.

Someone will take it and try selling it for scrap...

There are a lot of tweakers in Springtucky.


Yep
 
2014-08-28 05:30:16 PM  

Tobin_Lam: Bathia_Mapes: drjekel_mrhyde: ajgeek: ani23: ajgeek: nytmare: But what about the turbine? Is the turbine ok? Cause that will be expensive if they have to throw it out.

Oh the turbine is toast. 50 tons at even the 4 feet it dropped put the whole thing out of round. F=MA and M was huge.

Curious about the turbines fate. Am sure there's some damage. Just wondering if its totaled or fixable

Pix don't say much

In the case of turbines the tolerances on them are in the 0.0005 in range. That's 5/10,000 of one inch on the "loose" parts. Other things have much tighter tolerances, particularly the drive shaft, which runs the entire length. The more that's lopsided (and these numbers start getting *really* small, in the millionths of an inch range), the more vibration during operation and the shorter the operational lifespan. When you buy a 70 ton turbine, you're spending real money and you *really* don't want that to die in a year. A rollover is a deal breaker, period.

/mechanical engineer (almost)
//Degree next may, FE exam not long from now.

What are turbines that huge used for?
/Just wondering

In this case its destination was Kingsford Manufacturing on Marcola Rd. You're probably familiar with the company name.

Now we know what it is and where it was going. What are turbines that huge used for?


No clue.
 
2014-08-28 07:51:33 PM  

Tobin_Lam: Now we know what it is and where it was going. What are turbines that huge used for?


Tobin_Lam: Thanks for some actually informative answers. Not you, Rransack., your answers aren't helpful at all.


I and about three others in sequence answered that question some 50 posts prior to you asking it...

Should I post pictures next time?
 
2014-08-29 05:06:19 AM  
It was finally delivered to Kingsford Manufacturing, but it looks like the driver may be getting some citations.

Amongst other things transportation department officials said they later discovered that the chains holding the turbine in place were not of adequate number or strength to comply with tie-down regulations; that two of the tires were below acceptable inflation levels; and that the driver's log book had a discrepancy between times in and out of service.
 
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