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(Talking Points Memo)   Bill Kristol is wrong about something. I know, I know. And we just got over the shock of Modern Family winning an Emmy   ( talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Bill Kristol, Isis, United States, James Foley, Islamic State of Iraq, American journalists, Weekly Standard  
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2055 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Aug 2014 at 5:33 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-27 03:49:56 PM  
Politics is fun. Invade a country that hates you, pig off everyone there while 'keeping the peace' then leave behind a vacuum on withdrawal allowing more people that hate you move on prompting the people who once hated you to come back and get rid of those people. But you don't. Haa. Love it.
 
2014-08-27 04:30:26 PM  
Subby, you misspelled "every"
 
2014-08-27 05:33:11 PM  
lh5.googleusercontent.com
 
2014-08-27 05:34:20 PM  
What's the harm in bombs amirite?

That's why the Afghans and Iraqis f*cking love us
 
2014-08-27 05:34:50 PM  
how about we *not* get involved with iraq anymore? lets give that a shot. call me crazy, but it might be better than decades of war.
 
2014-08-27 05:37:20 PM  

hubiestubert: [lh5.googleusercontent.com image 640x480]


Bill Kristol isn't even a broken clock.  He's a digital clock with a dead battery.
 
2014-08-27 05:40:46 PM  
Bill Kri-


img.4plebs.org
 
2014-08-27 05:41:18 PM  
The good old "shoot first, ask questions later, and let God sort out the consequences" doctrine of foreign policy.

Has there literally been a single thing the US has done since World War Two between Egypt and India that hasn't come back to bite us on the ass?

3.bp.blogspot.com

OK, it may not be the only winning move.  But I would think that by now it's at least due to be tried.
It can't end up any worse.
 
2014-08-27 05:42:19 PM  
Cue the conservative whining and claims of a "troll thread" in 3, 2...
 
2014-08-27 05:44:32 PM  
Hey I think this is probably the closest to being right he has been on a subject for his entire life.
 
2014-08-27 05:44:48 PM  
You know what? If Bill Kristol and his friends want to go save the Iraqi Gubment from IslamoFascists, they should go do that.

It's been done before:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln_Brigade
 
2014-08-27 05:44:55 PM  
What could possibly go wrong with a bombing campaign waged by a technologically superior force, that doesn't sort out the ACTUAL bad guys from their neighbors, and is conducted by Western-allied states?

I dunno, farking ask Israel, you miserable assbrain.
 
2014-08-27 05:49:09 PM  
You know, why don't we just bomb Bill Kristol's house? We know where he lives. What's the harm in bombing his property at least for a few weeks and seeing what happens?
 
2014-08-27 05:50:03 PM  

Corvus: Hey I think this is probably the closest to being right he has been on a subject for his entire life.


Agreed. Didn't he basically say "Hey, why not just keep doing what we're already doing?"
 
2014-08-27 05:50:06 PM  

colinspooky: Politics is fun. Invade a country that hates you, pig off everyone there while 'keeping the peace' then leave behind a vacuum on withdrawal allowing more people that hate you move on prompting the people who once hated you to come back and get rid of those people. But you don't. Haa. Love it.


Or, slightly more concisely -
i.imgur.com
 
2014-08-27 05:53:57 PM  

12349876: hubiestubert: [lh5.googleusercontent.com image 640x480]

Bill Kristol isn't even a broken clock.  He's a digital clock with a dead battery.


If William Kristol says, "The sun will never run out of energy and will shine forever!", you have roughly eight minutes to get your affairs in order because the sun just ran out of hydrogen in its core and started to turn into a red giant.
 
2014-08-27 05:54:31 PM  

Karac: Has there literally been a single thing the US has done since World War Two between Egypt and India that hasn't come back to bite us on the ass?


All too often, American foreign policy seems to have inspired by "The Little Old Lady Who Swallowed a Fly."
 
2014-08-27 06:04:52 PM  
img.fark.net
i1.ytimg.com
 
2014-08-27 06:14:21 PM  

Karac: The good old "shoot first, ask questions later, and let God sort out the consequences" doctrine of foreign policy.


I guess I'm confused because we're already shooting, in fact, the article even specifies that we're launching air strikes. So unless Kristol is talking specifically about Syria, I'm not sure why he thinks we're not already bombing ISIS. (And if he *is* talking specifically about Syria than there certainly are things that could fall out poorly due to the other actors in the region such as Iran etc...

So yea, I'm really confused by this whole line of thinking.
 
2014-08-27 06:15:02 PM  
Dempsey came out on Sunday and stated we have no evidence that ISIS is targeting the US or US interests. So, we just start randomly bombing them, maybe they re-prioritize their target list? Let's get a plan together for how we are going to defeat them on the ground first. Bombing them might feel good, but it won't stop them.
 
2014-08-27 06:18:13 PM  
What would happen if we bombed Islamic fighters? I don't know.

Here's what happened when we stationed troops in Saudi Arabia.

The Iraqi invasion of Kuwait under Saddam Hussein on August 2, 1990, put the Saudi kingdom and the royal family at risk. With Iraqi forces on the Saudi border, Saddam's appeal to pan-Arabism was potentially inciting internal dissent. Bin Laden met with King Fahd, and Saudi Defense Minister Sultan, telling them not to depend on non-Muslim assistance from the United States and others, and offering to help defend Saudi Arabia with his Arab legion. Bin Laden's offer was rebuffed, and the Saudi monarchy invited the deployment of U.S. forces in Saudi territory. Bin Laden publicly denounced Saudi dependence on the U.S. military, arguing the two holiest shrines of Islam, Mecca and Medina, the cities in which the Prophet Mohamed received and recited Allah's message, should only be defended by Muslims. Bin Laden's criticism of the Saudi monarchy led them to try to silence him. The U.S. 82nd Airborne Division landed in north-eastern Saudi city of Dhahran and was deployed in the desert barely 400 miles from Medina.
Meanwhile, on November 8, 1990, the FBI raided the New Jersey home of El Sayyid Nosair, an associate of al-Qaeda operative Ali Mohamed. They discovered copious evidence of terrorist plots, including plans to blow up New York City skyscrapers. This marked the earliest discovery of al-Qaeda terrorist plans outside of Muslim countries. Nosair was eventually convicted in connection to the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, and later admitted guilt for the murder of Rabbi Meir Kahane in New York City on November 5, 1990.


Oh and the murder of several thousand Americans on September 11, 2001.

Oh and the deaths of several thousand Americans in Iraq.
 
2014-08-27 06:19:02 PM  

Ow! That was my feelings!: Dempsey came out on Sunday and stated we have no evidence that ISIS is targeting the US or US interests. So, we just start randomly bombing them, maybe they re-prioritize their target list? Let's get a plan together for how we are going to defeat them on the ground first. Bombing them might feel good, but it won't stop them.


every pundit i have heard goes on and on about how they are going to attack the US homeland (hard to take that phrase seriously) and how we need to just wise up and prepare for a long, expensive generational ground war against these guys. its all about those big bucks for defense contracts and more punditry gigs. nobody is going to pay some think tank 'wonk' 250k per year and invite him on TV so his mom can see him if he says 'everything is going to be fine, those guys don't really care about us and its not really our job to intervene everywhere because frankly we'd only make the situation worse.' Nobody sells another 10 F-35s based on that attitude.
 
2014-08-27 06:19:24 PM  
Don't worry, in another  2 weeks he'll be proclaiming ISIS as allies against a new boogeyman du jour and lobbying to arm them and send them aid.
 
2014-08-27 06:19:29 PM  
I don't watch much television but Modern Family makes me laugh.

There.  I shared.
 
2014-08-27 06:28:54 PM  

tools.foxnews.com


"War, for a lack of a cuter word, is good. War is right. War works. War clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the capitalist spirit. War, in all of its forms; war for oil, for land, for money, for gold, revenge, has marked the upward surge of stock prices and war, you mark my words, will not only save Halliburton but that other malfunctioning corporation called the U.S.A."

 
2014-08-27 06:33:15 PM  
An 'eye for eye' leaves the entire world blind.*

 * Still okay for really farking stupid people.
 
2014-08-27 06:38:17 PM  
I want to see at least three dead ISIS Number Twos before I support any kind of extended campaign.
 
2014-08-27 06:38:25 PM  
Hey what is his prediction on having US forces out of Afcrapistan by 2014,   ?

(hint: Germany left less than a year ago, and a Taliban flag flies now above their former combat base in Kunduz )


I feel bad for the next president,  whomever it is they should have a little foreign policy experience.
For that matter,  hopefully they will have a foreign policy.
 
2014-08-27 06:38:43 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: [img.fark.net image 640x480]
[i1.ytimg.com image 850x478]


at least the german guy knew he was fighting for a lost cause and went for the gold
 
2014-08-27 06:45:16 PM  

toadist: Hey what is his prediction on having US forces out of Afcrapistan by 2014,   ?

(hint: Germany left less than a year ago, and a Taliban flag flies now above their former combat base in Kunduz )


I feel bad for the next president,  whomever it is they should have a little foreign policy experience.
For that matter,  hopefully they will have a foreign policy.


cdn.theatlantic.com

: "The Taliban's ability to brutalize the Afghan people and to harbor and support terrorists has been virtually  eliminated."

: "And as a result of the United States military,Taliban no longer is in existence. And the people of Afghanistan are now free."



And yes, I went there. Because if a real, he man POTUS like George W Bush couldn't defeat them, neither can anyone else.
 
2014-08-27 06:45:19 PM  

CanisNoir: Karac: The good old "shoot first, ask questions later, and let God sort out the consequences" doctrine of foreign policy.

I guess I'm confused because we're already shooting, in fact, the article even specifies that we're launching air strikes. So unless Kristol is talking specifically about Syria, I'm not sure why he thinks we're not already bombing ISIS. (And if he *is* talking specifically about Syria than there certainly are things that could fall out poorly due to the other actors in the region such as Iran etc...

So yea, I'm really confused by this whole line of thinking.


Yes, we are already bombing ISIS.  But it's quite clear from Kristol's comments that he either doesn't know that, or doesn't care enough about the possible consequences of those bombings enough to even entertain the notion that  there may be consequences.
 
2014-08-27 06:49:18 PM  
I think we should bomb ISIS into the stone age. They are probably the most evil thing since Nazis in WWII.

However it is probably good we waited until now. Maliki was a horrible leader and if we acted earlier it may have kept him in power. Also it's sad but you have to let get things get so bad before you can get the backing to do things.

If Obama acted earlier they would all be attacking him like they did in Libya. Remember that? Remember those saying Obama was a crazy power hungry and should be impeached? Yeah they are the same now saying that Obama is waiting too long and should be doing more.
 
2014-08-27 07:04:58 PM  
What could possiblye go wrong?

everylittleaction.files.wordpress.com

www.matthieu-nopsir.org
 
2014-08-27 07:09:06 PM  
He's in the wrong business. If I could contort my mouth like that -- what is that? a trapezoid, I'd be off to the circus, or in the sex trades, or run a pop-up kissing booth.


a5.img.talkingpointsmemo.com
 
2014-08-27 07:11:29 PM  
Good to know others think Modern Family is a garbage bag of a show. Not even the hot Latina with the boobies can come close to making that show worth watching.
 
2014-08-27 07:13:30 PM  

BitwiseShift: He's in the wrong business. If I could contort my mouth like that -- what is that? a trapezoid, I'd be off to the circus, or in the sex trades, or run a pop-up kissing booth.


[a5.img.talkingpointsmemo.com image 330x180]


He does look worn out.
 
2014-08-27 07:35:04 PM  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: [tools.foxnews.com image 204x204]
"War, for a lack of a cuter word, is good. War is right. War works. War clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the capitalist spirit. War, in all of its forms; war for oil, for land, for money, for gold, revenge, has marked the upward surge of stock prices and war, you mark my words, will not only save Halliburton but that other malfunctioning corporation called the U.S.A."


Funny, I seem to remember a Republican President who felt somewhat differently...

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron."
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

Of course, Ike also helped depose the most democratic state in the Middle East, and helped predicate the instability that we see today. While I admire the man, I will be the first to admit that he was flawed, which is pretty much most humans. We can't all be saints, but you have to do the best you can...
 
2014-08-27 08:02:47 PM  
If Fark has taught me anything, the answer to any headline asking "what could go wrong" is usually "everything."
 
2014-08-27 08:17:59 PM  
"Bloody" Billy Kristol was last taken seriously by whom?
 
2014-08-27 08:43:50 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: [img.fark.net image 640x480]
[i1.ytimg.com image 850x478]


The guy in the bottom can't be Kristol because Kristol wouldn't dream of actually serving in the military.
 
2014-08-27 09:24:01 PM  
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. Then there's Bill Kristol's answers, which are even worse."

-Rand Paul
 
2014-08-27 09:33:09 PM  
Piss off, Kristol. The fact that you aren't getting your ass beat by  Iraqi War Vets on a regular basis is pretty damn good evidence that karma doesn't exist.
 
2014-08-27 09:42:30 PM  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: [tools.foxnews.com image 204x204]
"War, for a lack of a cuter word, is good. War is right. War works. War clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the capitalist spirit. War, in all of its forms; war for oil, for land, for money, for gold, revenge, has marked the upward surge of stock prices and war, you mark my words, will not only save Halliburton but that other malfunctioning corporation called the U.S.A."


There's no way he actually said that.
 
2014-08-27 09:51:57 PM  

qorkfiend: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: [tools.foxnews.com image 204x204]
"War, for a lack of a cuter word, is good. War is right. War works. War clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the capitalist spirit. War, in all of its forms; war for oil, for land, for money, for gold, revenge, has marked the upward surge of stock prices and war, you mark my words, will not only save Halliburton but that other malfunctioning corporation called the U.S.A."

There's no way he actually said that.


Lol, I think that's Gordon Gekko from Wall St, only he was talking about greed.
 
2014-08-27 10:42:07 PM  

BitwiseShift: He's in the wrong business. If I could contort my mouth like that -- what is that? a trapezoid, I'd be off to the circus, or in the sex trades, or run a pop-up kissing booth.


[a5.img.talkingpointsmemo.com image 330x180]


Lead singer in a Billy Idol tribute band maybe...
 
2014-08-27 10:47:38 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: [img.fark.net image 640x480]
[i1.ytimg.com image 850x478]


I feel like that should be shopped onto a picture of Vigo (the Scourge of Karpathia).
 
2014-08-27 10:49:31 PM  
 
2014-08-28 12:05:47 AM  

12349876: hubiestubert: [lh5.googleusercontent.com image 640x480]

Bill Kristol isn't even a broken clock.  He's a digital clock with a dead battery.


The worst a dead digital clock can do is NOT tell you the time.  Bill Kristol will happily tell you the absolute wrong time in such a way that farks your entire day.
 
2014-08-28 12:07:01 AM  

hubiestubert: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: [tools.foxnews.com image 204x204]
"War, for a lack of a cuter word, is good. War is right. War works. War clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the capitalist spirit. War, in all of its forms; war for oil, for land, for money, for gold, revenge, has marked the upward surge of stock prices and war, you mark my words, will not only save Halliburton but that other malfunctioning corporation called the U.S.A."

Funny, I seem to remember a Republican President who felt somewhat differently...

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron."
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

Of course, Ike also helped depose the most democratic state in the Middle East, and helped predicate the instability that we see today. While I admire the man, I will be the first to admit that he was flawed, which is pretty much most humans. We can't all be saints, but you have to do the best you can...


This. I'd said before that if not for destabilizing the Middle East, I'd put him in my top 10 presidents, until I remembered I had FDR in my top 10, who'd interned Japanese-Americans during his presidency, as well as Thomas Jefferson, who wrote "We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal" while still being a slaveholder.

It remind me of a line in 1776: "[W]hat would posterity think we were? Demi-gods? We're men, no more no less, trying to get a nation started against greater odds than a more generous God would have allowed."
 
2014-08-28 02:01:35 AM  

BMulligan: Karac: Has there literally been a single thing the US has done since World War Two between Egypt and India that hasn't come back to bite us on the ass?

All too often, American foreign policy seems to have inspired by "The Little Old Lady Who Swallowed a Fly."


Or the Simpsons episode "Bart the Mother":

ekostoriesdotcom.files.wordpress.com

Skinner: Well, I was wrong. The lizards are a godsend.
Lisa: But isn't that a bit short-sighted? What happens when we're overrun by lizards?
Skinner: No problem. We simply release wave after wave of Chinese needle snakes. They'll wipe out the lizards.
Lisa: But aren't the snakes even worse?
Skinner: Yes, but we're prepared for that. We've lined up a fabulous type of gorilla that thrives on snake meat.
Lisa: But then we're stuck with gorillas!
Skinner: No, that's the beautiful part. When wintertime rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death.
 
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