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(Gizmodo)   New video shows Iron Dome intercepting FIFTEEN Hamas rockets at once   (sploid.gizmodo.com ) divider line
    More: Cool, Iron Dome  
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5264 clicks; posted to Geek » on 27 Aug 2014 at 9:08 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-27 07:38:08 AM  
That's actually a pretty impressive video.

I'm wondering when Hamas is going to shift from rockets that are vulnerable to Iron Dome to low-flying cruise-type missiles that Iron Dome can't cope with.  For the ranges involved, just pointing them in the right direction and using a simple flight timer would be accurate enough.   The only tricky part is making them fly at a constant (low) altitude.
 
2014-08-27 07:49:48 AM  
Yup. Israel has the best defense our money can buy.
 
2014-08-27 08:20:17 AM  

dittybopper: That's actually a pretty impressive video.

I'm wondering when Hamas is going to shift from rockets that are vulnerable to Iron Dome to low-flying cruise-type missiles that Iron Dome can't cope with.  For the ranges involved, just pointing them in the right direction and using a simple flight timer would be accurate enough.   The only tricky part is making them fly at a constant (low) altitude.


um
cruise missiles are insanely expensive, and require ... I dont know ... trained operators?

NOW, cheap ass drones would be perfect for what you are talking about ...
get a cheap drone to carry your explosives and you could fly crazy low and avoid getting shot down ...
you would need to avoid your control getting jammed by the IDF but ...

/no wait, now I gave ideas of war to hamas ... FRAK
 
2014-08-27 09:08:23 AM  
Should be mandatory viewing in every Holy Land thread
 
2014-08-27 09:14:35 AM  
Fifteen!  Fifteen Hamas rockets! Ah, ah, ah, ah!

*thunder*
 
2014-08-27 09:17:04 AM  
New high score, is that bad? What does that mean? Did I break it?
 
2014-08-27 09:22:04 AM  
Stoopid DMK breaking my record.
 
2014-08-27 09:22:22 AM  
So why doesn't Israel sell this technology to the U.S.? Those Patriot missile turned out to be a dud, didn't they?
 
2014-08-27 09:26:33 AM  
Big deal. I played Missile Command for an hour on 2 quarters once.
 
2014-08-27 09:28:10 AM  

Gecko Gingrich: Yup. Israel has the best defense our money can buy.


On the plus side, they are testing missile defense systems for us under real-world conditions!
 
2014-08-27 09:29:24 AM  

ChrisDe: So why doesn't Israel sell this technology to the U.S.? Those Patriot missile turned out to be a dud, didn't they?


What do we want with them?  We don't have a hostile group right at our gate lobbing crude rockets at us. They wouldn't be much use in the wars we wage.
 
2014-08-27 09:32:57 AM  

ChrisDe: So why doesn't Israel sell this technology to the U.S.? Those Patriot missile turned out to be a dud, didn't they?


No. No they didn't.

They had a software glitch that caused problems with the GPS clock, but once that was resolved they worked amazingly.
 
2014-08-27 09:37:23 AM  
Those people were so terrified, that chick couldn't stop texting and half of the people just kinda moseyed into the shelter there. Better bomb another refugee center to dust.
 
2014-08-27 09:38:20 AM  

namatad: OW, cheap ass drones would be perfect for what you are talking about ...
get a cheap drone to carry your explosives and you could fly crazy low and avoid getting shot down ...
you would need to avoid your control getting jammed by the IDF but ...


They'd only need enough control to launch, have a raspberry pi with with some auto balancing sensor (don't even go high tech just use mercury switches at the wing tips the nose and tail) and programing to keep the drone even, simple timer control to move the rudder for a flight path. The IDF could only jam it at the source once in the air they could only jam it like Lone Star.

2.bp.blogspot.com

They'd have better luck hitting them with a shotgun.
 
2014-08-27 09:38:41 AM  

ChrisDe: So why doesn't Israel sell this technology to the U.S.? Those Patriot missile turned out to be a dud, didn't they?



M.A.D. and geographic advantage.
 
2014-08-27 09:38:43 AM  
There was an article a few weeks back that explained why Hamas will continue to use these types of rockets. The logic went like this:

1) The rockets are fairly inaccurate to begin with, so while they are targeted at a specific location, there isn't a High success rate of delivery to that location;
2) The Iron Dome does an "OK" job at hitting the rocket (the numbers of interceptions are debatable, but it appears that it's not too bad);
3) The Iron Dome does a poor job of intercepting the rockets *and* destroying the warhead in the air. (The number I recall is around 5 or 9%)

As a result, the propulsion mechanism (the tube) may get destroyed or knocked off-course, but the explosive portion of the rocket falls to earth in Israel where it explodes and causes damage.

Since they aren't terribly accurate to begin with, Hamas doesn't really care if the warhead falls on a different piece of Israel from where it was originally targeted.
 
2014-08-27 09:39:03 AM  

nekom: ChrisDe: So why doesn't Israel sell this technology to the U.S.? Those Patriot missile turned out to be a dud, didn't they?

What do we want with them?  We don't have a hostile group right at our gate lobbing crude rockets at us. They wouldn't be much use in the wars we wage.


Yeah, because no one ever mortared our FOBs in Afghanistan or Iraq.
 
2014-08-27 09:39:57 AM  

namatad: cruise missiles are insanely expensive, and require ... I dont know ... trained operators?


Welcome to the future:

A DIY Cruise Missile
Watch me build one for under $5,000

Yeah, he got shut down by the USA NZ govt, but there's no reason why Hamas or ISIS / ISIL / IS can't take over where he left off.

you would need to avoid your control getting jammed by the IDF but ...

I can think of at least one way to get around that problem. All you have to do is *NO CARRIER*
 
2014-08-27 09:41:57 AM  

Gecko Gingrich: Yup. Israel has the best defense our money can buy.


I sense you don't approve. What's your objection, that the US is paying for it or that it saves Jew's lives?
 
2014-08-27 09:42:13 AM  
I hear there's one in development that can take on 37. In a row.
 
2014-08-27 09:44:34 AM  

Mikey1969: Those people were so terrified, that chick couldn't stop texting and half of the people just kinda moseyed into the shelter there. Better bomb another refugee center to dust.


Yup, just because your enemy can't defeat your defenses, you totally shouldn't strike back.  People settle into a routine pretty quickly when under attack.  See how people lived during the Blitz, or the Allied bombing of Germany.  People learn to go about their lives.  Once, during one of my wife's deployments to Iraq, we were talking on the phone, and the Big Voice went off, telling of an incoming mortar attack.  She barely broke our conversation.  She had gotten so used to it, because they were pretty inaccurate, and usually missed anyway.
 
2014-08-27 09:45:06 AM  

Mikey1969: Those people were so terrified, that chick couldn't stop texting and half of the people just kinda moseyed into the shelter there. Better bomb another refugee center to dust.


They're probably used to it - and sick of it by now.

The fact that they had to shoot 15 at once suggests to me that either Hamas is getting better at aiming or they just got lucky.

Or maybe they just launched so many at once that 15 needed defending against.
 
2014-08-27 09:45:34 AM  
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-08-27 09:48:47 AM  

jjorsett: Gecko Gingrich: Yup. Israel has the best defense our money can buy.

I sense you don't approve. What's your objection, that the US is paying for it or that it saves Jew's lives?


Either way I'm an anti-Semite, so it's moot.
 
2014-08-27 09:50:45 AM  

Deadite: namatad: OW, cheap ass drones would be perfect for what you are talking about ...
get a cheap drone to carry your explosives and you could fly crazy low and avoid getting shot down ...
you would need to avoid your control getting jammed by the IDF but ...

They'd only need enough control to launch, have a raspberry pi with with some auto balancing sensor (don't even go high tech just use mercury switches at the wing tips the nose and tail) and programing to keep the drone even, simple timer control to move the rudder for a flight path. The IDF could only jam it at the source once in the air they could only jam it like Lone Star.

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 500x278]

They'd have better luck hitting them with a shotgun.


Drones are slow and could be attacked with helicopters, which is how I'd expect Israel to handle them. Plus to handle a significant payload they'd have to be fixed-wing and would need an airfield. Hard to hide those. Plus rolling one out and getting it ready for takeoff takes a bit of time, and Israel would be watching and ready to drop an artillery shell on you when it saw you.
 
2014-08-27 09:54:28 AM  

gfid: Mikey1969: Those people were so terrified, that chick couldn't stop texting and half of the people just kinda moseyed into the shelter there. Better bomb another refugee center to dust.

They're probably used to it - and sick of it by now.

The fact that they had to shoot 15 at once suggests to me that either Hamas is getting better at aiming or they just got lucky.

Or maybe they just launched so many at once that 15 needed defending against.


Hamas' resources are being attrited so rapidly, and Egypt is preventing resupply, that I think they're firing all they've got left before it's gone. If I'm right, this is like the finale at the end of a fireworks show.
 
2014-08-27 09:57:52 AM  

namatad: cruise missiles are insanely expensive, and require ... I dont know ... trained operators?


No, they aren't.  You're thinking of a modern cruise missile with terrain following radar and all the other modern conveniences, but that's not what defines a cruise missile.

A cruise missile is simply a missile that flies like an airplane instead of being ballistic like a rocket.  They don't require a huge amount of technology to work correctly.  The Germans made a reasonably effective one back during WWII:   The V-1.

Today, you can purchase off-the-shelf autopilots to control that sort of thing, though getting them in Gaza might be problematic.

Hell, Hamas could make them using pulsejet engines, which are easy to make and inexpensive.  They are inefficient and noisy, but that's not a huge concern when you are trying to hit a target that's a mere 50 miles away, or less.

The warhead can be what they are using for the Qassam rockets, which seems to work OK.

They don't need (and shouldn't use) GPS because the Israelis could spoof that to mess up the control.  Just use a flux-gate compass to keep a pre-programmed heading, a barometer sensor for altitude, and a stabilization control module to keep it flying level.  Prior to launch, you calculate time of flight to your intended target, and set a timer that

All of the electronics necessary can be ordered off the shelf from places like Hobby King for a relatively small amount of money, and in fact they may not really be strictly necessary if you can come up with an inherently aerodynamically stable airframe.  Remember, you're trying to hit a city from a couple dozen miles away, not put it through a particular window of a particular building from hundreds of miles away.

Launching can be from a vehicle like a pick-up truck going down the road.
 
2014-08-27 10:04:34 AM  

jjorsett: gfid: Mikey1969: Those people were so terrified, that chick couldn't stop texting and half of the people just kinda moseyed into the shelter there. Better bomb another refugee center to dust.

They're probably used to it - and sick of it by now.

The fact that they had to shoot 15 at once suggests to me that either Hamas is getting better at aiming or they just got lucky.

Or maybe they just launched so many at once that 15 needed defending against.

Hamas' resources are being attrited so rapidly, and Egypt is preventing resupply, that I think they're firing all they've got left before it's gone. If I'm right, this is like the finale at the end of a fireworks show.


So was this recent? I know this sounds crazy but I thought they had cease-fired a couple of days ago?
 
2014-08-27 10:04:39 AM  
Recent footage of the Iron Dome shows the defense system working

What this footage shows is fifteen Iron Dome interceptors going up and detonating, so it's  working in the sense of doing all the steps in the right order.

What we absolutely  cannot tell from this video is whether there were fifteen enemy rockets to be shot down (or more than fifteen, or less than fifteen). And we absolutely cannot tell if they  were shot down.

Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe that rocket defense* technology  can work fairly well based on our overall technological sophistication as a species. It's doable, whether or not we're really doing it just yet. But I wouldn't take these two minutes of YouTube as proof that Israel has any kind of reliable rocket defense.

* Rocket defense, yes.  Missile defense, no. Not in this century.
 
2014-08-27 10:05:13 AM  

devildog123: nekom: ChrisDe: So why doesn't Israel sell this technology to the U.S.? Those Patriot missile turned out to be a dud, didn't they?

What do we want with them?  We don't have a hostile group right at our gate lobbing crude rockets at us. They wouldn't be much use in the wars we wage.

Yeah, because no one ever mortared our FOBs in Afghanistan or Iraq.


You think this anti-rocket technology is used to shoot down mortar shells?
 
2014-08-27 10:07:24 AM  

nekom: ChrisDe: So why doesn't Israel sell this technology to the U.S.? Those Patriot missile turned out to be a dud, didn't they?

What do we want with them?  We don't have a hostile group right at our gate lobbing crude rockets at us. They wouldn't be much use in the wars we wage.


We didn't use them in the U.S. last time, but to protect our troops in the Middle East.
 
2014-08-27 10:09:07 AM  

dittybopper: namatad: cruise missiles are insanely expensive, and require ... I dont know ... trained operators?

No, they aren't.  You're thinking of a modern cruise missile with terrain following radar and all the other modern conveniences, but that's not what defines a cruise missile.

A cruise missile is simply a missile that flies like an airplane instead of being ballistic like a rocket.  They don't require a huge amount of technology to work correctly.  The Germans made a reasonably effective one back during WWII:   The V-1.

Today, you can purchase off-the-shelf autopilots to control that sort of thing, though getting them in Gaza might be problematic.

Hell, Hamas could make them using pulsejet engines, which are easy to make and inexpensive.  They are inefficient and noisy, but that's not a huge concern when you are trying to hit a target that's a mere 50 miles away, or less.

The warhead can be what they are using for the Qassam rockets, which seems to work OK.

They don't need (and shouldn't use) GPS because the Israelis could spoof that to mess up the control.  Just use a flux-gate compass to keep a pre-programmed heading, a barometer sensor for altitude, and a stabilization control module to keep it flying level.  Prior to launch, you calculate time of flight to your intended target, and set a timer that

All of the electronics necessary can be ordered off the shelf from places like Hobby King for a relatively small amount of money, and in fact they may not really be strictly necessary if you can come up with an inherently aerodynamically stable airframe.  Remember, you're trying to hit a city from a couple dozen miles away, not put it through a particular window of a particular building from hundreds of miles away.

Launching can be from a vehicle like a pick-up truck going down the road.


In other news, Dittybopper offered a consultancy gig by the clerk at his local gas station when he went in to pay after filling up.
 
2014-08-27 10:17:52 AM  

RickN99: devildog123: nekom: ChrisDe: So why doesn't Israel sell this technology to the U.S.? Those Patriot missile turned out to be a dud, didn't they?

What do we want with them?  We don't have a hostile group right at our gate lobbing crude rockets at us. They wouldn't be much use in the wars we wage.

Yeah, because no one ever mortared our FOBs in Afghanistan or Iraq.

You think this anti-rocket technology is used to shoot down mortar shells?


That's what C-RAM is for.
 
2014-08-27 10:18:28 AM  

Mikey1969: Those people were so terrified, that chick couldn't stop texting and half of the people just kinda moseyed into the shelter there. Better bomb another refugee center to dust.


Two wrongs don't make a right, and two shiatty uses of logic don't make a correct one either.
 
2014-08-27 10:19:30 AM  

spcMike: ChrisDe: So why doesn't Israel sell this technology to the U.S.? Those Patriot missile turned out to be a dud, didn't they?

No. No they didn't.

They had a software glitch that caused problems with the GPS clock, but once that was resolved they worked amazingly.


True. The Patriots were intended to face the Soviets, who were expected to aggressively hunt these batteries, so the procedure was to shut down the system and move and restart daily. When procedures were followed, the clock error was minimal. In the Iraq war, operators didn't need to worry about defense, so they stayed in place with the system on for days or weeks, and the clock error got just large enough that the discrepancy between tracking and targeting caused the system to "miss" the tiny highspeed projectiles they were intended to intercept. The fix was a software update. Sadly it took a tragedy.
 
2014-08-27 10:23:14 AM  
The Iron Beam is next.

Sharks? No.
Frickin lasers? You betcha.
 
2014-08-27 10:25:14 AM  

Egoy3k: Mikey1969: Those people were so terrified, that chick couldn't stop texting and half of the people just kinda moseyed into the shelter there. Better bomb another refugee center to dust.

Two wrongs don't make a right, and two shiatty uses of logic don't make a correct one either.


I've been repeatedly told that it's ok for Israel to bomb refugee centers and schools because the people are literally living in fear, afraid to come out into the streets. I was merely pointing out that they seemed very non-terrified. It doesn't mean that Israel can't fight back, it means that they need to just own up to their bullshiat and quit targeting civilians. As you said, two wrongs don't make a right, so when Hamas launches rockets, Israel shouldn't be targeting civilians in retribution, because that is what "two wrongs" are.
 
2014-08-27 10:34:07 AM  
Big Science.
Hallelujah.
Every man for himself.
 
2014-08-27 10:34:31 AM  

Deadite: just use mercury switches at the wing tips the nose and tail


Two words - turbulence and acceleration.

Mercury switches obviously don't work when shaken, the outside of a turn/speeding up/slowing down feels like gravity.  You've got to use gyroscopes of some sort.
 
2014-08-27 10:34:39 AM  

dittybopper: That's actually a pretty impressive video.

I'm wondering when Hamas is going to shift from rockets that are vulnerable to Iron Dome to low-flying cruise-type missiles that Iron Dome can't cope with.  For the ranges involved, just pointing them in the right direction and using a simple flight timer would be accurate enough.   The only tricky part is making them fly at a constant (low) altitude.



They'll probably just go back to strapping bombs to women and retarded kids.
 
2014-08-27 10:36:13 AM  

Mikey1969: I've been repeatedly told that it's ok for Israel to bomb refugee centers and schools because the people are literally living in fear, afraid to come out into the streets. I was merely pointing out that they seemed very non-terrified. It doesn't mean that Israel can't fight back, it means that they need to just own up to their bullshiat and quit targeting civilians. As you said, two wrongs don't make a right, so when Hamas launches rockets, Israel shouldn't be targeting civilians in retribution, because that is what "two wrongs" are.


Well talk about shiatty logic, here are a few problems with what you just said:

A) This is one video that shows a few people not acting scared. This is not the way every Israeli necessarily reacts, particularly children, so don't pretend like you've seen the way these attacks affect every person. What was that building in the video? A shelter, perhaps? How many people are in there, can you tell? No, you can't. Don't forget early in the video where you can see people running for cover.

B) Twice you said Israel is targeting civilians. Saying it twice doesn't make it true. They're not targeting civilians - they're targeting Hamas rocket launch sites. It's not Israel's fault that Hamas likes to put civilians in harm's way for the sake of propaganda. That's why Palestinians need to band together to oust Hamas if there's ever going to be peace.

C) Let's say Israel DOES stop targeting the rocket launch sites - what other way to fight back would you recommend? Be specific.
 
2014-08-27 10:37:58 AM  
media.cagle.com
 
2014-08-27 10:38:23 AM  

jjorsett: Gecko Gingrich: Yup. Israel has the best defense our money can buy.

I sense you don't approve. What's your objection, that the US is paying for it or that it saves Jew's lives?


Most people are objecting to the fact that the US keeps paying to fight Israel's battles. Anti-Semitism, in most cases, is just a buzzword you heard on TV.

devildog123: Mikey1969: Those people were so terrified, that chick couldn't stop texting and half of the people just kinda moseyed into the shelter there. Better bomb another refugee center to dust.

Yup, just because your enemy can't defeat your defenses, you totally shouldn't strike back.  People settle into a routine pretty quickly when under attack.  See how people lived during the Blitz, or the Allied bombing of Germany.  People learn to go about their lives.  Once, during one of my wife's deployments to Iraq, we were talking on the phone, and the Big Voice went off, telling of an incoming mortar attack.  She barely broke our conversation.  She had gotten so used to it, because they were pretty inaccurate, and usually missed anyway.


The point is Israel keeps bombing schools and refugee centers, and we're supposed to believe it's because they are living in fear and have no choice.
 
2014-08-27 10:38:28 AM  

Chris Ween: Should be mandatory viewing in every Holy Land thread


This.
 
2014-08-27 10:43:00 AM  

idesofmarch: Mikey1969: I've been repeatedly told that it's ok for Israel to bomb refugee centers and schools because the people are literally living in fear, afraid to come out into the streets. I was merely pointing out that they seemed very non-terrified. It doesn't mean that Israel can't fight back, it means that they need to just own up to their bullshiat and quit targeting civilians. As you said, two wrongs don't make a right, so when Hamas launches rockets, Israel shouldn't be targeting civilians in retribution, because that is what "two wrongs" are.

Well talk about shiatty logic, here are a few problems with what you just said:

A) This is one video that shows a few people not acting scared. This is not the way every Israeli necessarily reacts, particularly children, so don't pretend like you've seen the way these attacks affect every person. What was that building in the video? A shelter, perhaps? How many people are in there, can you tell? No, you can't. Don't forget early in the video where you can see people running for cover.

B) Twice you said Israel is targeting civilians. Saying it twice doesn't make it true. They're not targeting civilians - they're targeting Hamas rocket launch sites. It's not Israel's fault that Hamas likes to put civilians in harm's way for the sake of propaganda. That's why Palestinians need to band together to oust Hamas if there's ever going to be peace.

C) Let's say Israel DOES stop targeting the rocket launch sites - what other way to fight back would you recommend? Be specific.


A) Nobody in the video is particularly concerned.

B) If someone uses human shields, mowing down those human shields doesn't make you better than the assholes that do it.

C) They keep saying that the sites are "near" these UN centers. "Near" is a little too vague when you keep killing civilians.

Of course, I don't expect much from these people when they started this whole thing on a farking lie to begin with.
 
2014-08-27 10:45:09 AM  

give me doughnuts: The Iron Beam is next.

Sharks? No.
Frickin lasers? You betcha.


The Iron Beam was my nickname in highschool! Hey-o!
 
2014-08-27 10:47:37 AM  

Space Station Wagon: give me doughnuts: The Iron Beam is next.

Sharks? No.
Frickin lasers? You betcha.

The Iron Beam was my nickname in highschool! Hey-o!


That's funny...mine was Ironic Beam.
 
2014-08-27 10:49:55 AM  
13, 14, 15! 15 missles incercepted! Ha Ha Ha!
img.fark.net
 
2014-08-27 10:53:07 AM  

Mikey1969: Egoy3k: Mikey1969: Those people were so terrified, that chick couldn't stop texting and half of the people just kinda moseyed into the shelter there. Better bomb another refugee center to dust.

Two wrongs don't make a right, and two shiatty uses of logic don't make a correct one either.

I've been repeatedly told that it's ok for Israel to bomb refugee centers and schools because the people are literally living in fear, afraid to come out into the streets. I was merely pointing out that they seemed very non-terrified. It doesn't mean that Israel can't fight back, it means that they need to just own up to their bullshiat and quit targeting civilians. As you said, two wrongs don't make a right, so when Hamas launches rockets, Israel shouldn't be targeting civilians in retribution, because that is what "two wrongs" are.


Who cares with some guy on the internet told you?  You weren't responding to some guy being stupid online. You were making the point that you saw two or three people who were unconcerned in a single video of a single rocket attack and therefore no Israelis are worried so Israel should stop defending themselves. This is a very poorly thought out argument.


You also heavily insinuated that they are actively targeting refuge centers and you have since stated that you believe that they are doing so.  I disagree with the last point but I'm not super keen on Israel myself so I don't really feel like carrying their water on fark so lets set that aside.
 
2014-08-27 10:53:18 AM  

Mikey1969: A) Nobody in the video is particularly concerned.

B) If someone uses human shields, mowing down those human shields doesn't make you better than the assholes that do it.

C) They keep saying that the sites are "near" these UN centers. "Near" is a little too vague when you keep killing civilians.

Of course, I don't expect much from these people when they started this whole thing on a farking lie to begin with.


A) Again, yes, those people, who you can see, are not afraid. The fact that they've gotten used to this should scare you. If one of those sirens went off in a typical American town, there wouldn't be a clean pair of pants within ten miles. And AGAIN, just because you can see some people who aren't afraid, don't forget there are probably many people in shelters who are afraid that you can't see.

B) Killing civilians is an unfortunate occurrence in war, but place the blame where it belongs: Hamas puts those people in danger intentionally. If they fired their rockets from unpopulated areas, there wouldn't be so much collateral damage. But Hamas wants Palestinians to die so that they can make propaganda. So yeah, I'd say it does make Israel better than them.

C) What you said does not address what I said. AGAIN, how else should Israel respond to rocket attacks? Be specific. What should they do?

Also, don't get hung up on the kidnapped teenagers as cause for this conflict story - even if it's true, it's not as though Hamas wouldn't have fired some rockets and kicked off this whole thing eventually anyway. That's why it keeps happening every few years - Hamas has no chance of winning, but they don't surrender. As long as their are Palestinians they can use as cannon fodder, they don't have to.
 
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