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(Gizmodo)   It would sound like whales humping or a seismic anomaly. Anything but a submarine   (sploid.gizmodo.com) divider line 72
    More: Cool, Soviet Navy  
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3075 clicks; posted to Geek » on 26 Aug 2014 at 9:24 AM (17 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-26 12:59:43 AM  
cool, but damaging  to wildlife I bet.
 
2014-08-26 09:32:35 AM  
I wonder the effects of hitting a whale or something
 
2014-08-26 09:36:23 AM  
China and Whale Wars working together. Japan's research fleet will have no chance of hauling any whales in if they have all been driven insane and beached themselves.
 
2014-08-26 09:41:51 AM  
OK, good luck with that, China.
 
2014-08-26 09:44:04 AM  
One ping only.
 
2014-08-26 09:46:00 AM  
"China claims it has found a way to create a supersonic underwater vessel that could travel from China to San Francisco in less than two hours"

No word yet on how to get to Montana
 
2014-08-26 09:50:28 AM  

Shrugging Atlas: "China claims it has found a way to create a supersonic underwater vessel that could travel from China to San Francisco in less than two hours"

No word yet on how to get to Montana


Just don't turn off the motor.  At 3600-ish mph, it will drill it's way to Montana.

/no papers, state to state.
 
2014-08-26 09:51:42 AM  
its, not it's. Sorry, too early in the morning.

/grammatik macht frei
 
2014-08-26 09:51:49 AM  
Obviously it will be built to the high tolerances demanded by the Chinese Military. This clearly won't end with all hands lost at sea.
 
2014-08-26 10:05:20 AM  
A sonic boom in air is loud enough. God only knows how much noise you'd make exceeding Mach 1 underwater, but you'd alert every sensor in the Pacific doing it.

Not much of a surprise weapon. Then again, if it's that fast, there'd be no real way to stop it, either.
 
2014-08-26 10:08:29 AM  
That sounds like very cool nonsense.  You can push water aside with supercavitation, but can you also push aside fish or other solid matter?  At 300 mph maybe, but at 3000 this is likely to end with fish paste being supersonically extruded into the front of the sub and blowing it up.

/Active sonar buoys and counter torpedoes would take care of it anyways. Better to invest in ICBM improvements.
 
2014-08-26 10:09:13 AM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: A sonic boom in air is loud enough. God only knows how much noise you'd make exceeding Mach 1 underwater, but you'd alert every sensor in the Pacific doing it.

Not much of a surprise weapon. Then again, if it's that fast, there'd be no real way to stop it, either.


Isn't the nature of a sonic boom such that the object creating the wavefront is in front of it (because it's traveling faster than the waves propagate)? By the time you hear the sonic boom, whatever created it has already passed.
 
2014-08-26 10:09:36 AM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: A sonic boom in air is loud enough. God only knows how much noise you'd make exceeding Mach 1 underwater, but you'd alert every sensor in the Pacific doing it.

Not much of a surprise weapon. Then again, if it's that fast, there'd be no real way to stop it, either.


Sure there is, just use a killer whale
 
2014-08-26 10:10:00 AM  
Conceptually scary as hell.
Practically, not so much.  There is a whole bunch of physics that was "hand waved".
 
2014-08-26 10:15:22 AM  
Bullshiat.
 
2014-08-26 10:30:37 AM  

qorkfiend: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: A sonic boom in air is loud enough. God only knows how much noise you'd make exceeding Mach 1 underwater, but you'd alert every sensor in the Pacific doing it.

Not much of a surprise weapon. Then again, if it's that fast, there'd be no real way to stop it, either.

Isn't the nature of a sonic boom such that the object creating the wavefront is in front of it (because it's traveling faster than the waves propagate)? By the time you hear the sonic boom, whatever created it has already passed.


True but the sensors, including one way out in Pearl, would pick it up and thus it would be heard long before it reached it's target, or before it slammed into a small school of fish and exploded, whichever comes first.
 
2014-08-26 10:35:24 AM  
It seems like it would take an awful lot of power to displace water at that rate. Or do you reclaim it from the water collapsing together behind you? That seems farfetched, but even normal regimes of fluid flow are pretty mysterious to me.
 
2014-08-26 10:38:07 AM  
Super cavitation is a neat concept. Very unlikely to get anything up to the speed of sound in water...but you can get something going relatively quickly. Makes sense to put it on a torpedo, not an entire submarine. It would make more sense to put it on surface ships.
 
2014-08-26 10:38:30 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-08-26 10:40:08 AM  
Also, people seem to be thinking of fish as some hard, dense objects waiting to smash the thing. A fish is pretty much neutrally buoyant, which means that it's approximately the same density as the water it's swimming in. And at these velocities and power levels, I'm thinking that there isn't much difference between "boring through water" and "boring through fish". It's almost completely unlike (say) a bird strike on an aircraft.
 
2014-08-26 10:40:42 AM  
At 3000 mph it would have absolutely no way of knowing where it is or what's in front of it.  Drop a few old fashioned contact mines or just a chunk of concrete and it would be toast.
 
2014-08-26 10:47:01 AM  

jfarkinB: A fish is pretty much neutrally buoyant, which means that it's approximately the same density as the water it's swimming in.


In aggregate, sure. Their bones, not so much. That's why fish have swim bladders and whales have lungs. Hit a blue whale at Mach 1 and there may be negative consequences.
 
2014-08-26 10:47:42 AM  

sithon: cool, but damaging  to wildlife I bet.


Whale pudding sounds delicious.
 
2014-08-26 10:50:49 AM  

ArkPanda: At 3000 mph it would have absolutely no way of knowing where it is or what's in front of it.  Drop a few old fashioned contact mines or just a chunk of concrete and it would be toast.


hell, at 30 mph you barely know what's in front of you, even with all the improvements to hydrodynamics in the hull design. water flow is noisy. sure you can use active pinging, but if you're exceeding the speed of sound in your medium, active sonar is beyond useless as you're outrunning your own signal. hell at that speed you're not even warning things in front of you out of the way.
 
2014-08-26 10:50:53 AM  
"Cool" tag? So Subby thinks it's cool if China has the capability to park a sub in SF Bay with barely any warning?
 
2014-08-26 10:54:41 AM  

limboslam: "Cool" tag? So Subby thinks it's cool if China has the capability to park a sub in SF Bay with barely any warning?


Soo scary! BOOO!!!
 
2014-08-26 11:02:33 AM  

MugzyBrown: limboslam: "Cool" tag? So Subby thinks it's cool if China has the capability to park a sub in SF Bay with barely any warning?

Soo scary! BOOO!!!


Triple the defense budget stat!  We'll take it out of welfare.  We have to be safe from the reported supersonic underwater chinese tigers subs
 
2014-08-26 11:02:36 AM  
Man... while it would be nearly unstoppable if it worked perfectly (it would be about impossible to get anything in place to stop it in time), one little fark up anywhere along the way and it all comes apart... literally.

That little bubble generator gets out of sync and the thing starts to yaw at speed and the turbulence will tear it apart. You get your navigation off by just a little bit and you hit something on the way, end up hundreds of miles off course, or don't stop in time and plow right into the beach.

Heck, it would be so noisy we'd be able to tell it was coming a ways off... a small ballistic missile with a nuclear depth charge and it never arrives anyway.
 
2014-08-26 11:05:03 AM  
It has to blow some kind of vapor out the nose.....? Where they gonna get all that vapor?
 
2014-08-26 11:09:25 AM  

LostInTranslation: It has to blow some kind of vapor out the nose.....? Where they gonna get all that vapor?


Vaporware.
 
2014-08-26 11:10:28 AM  
Of course, for a lot lower budget, you could just make a similar-sized machine that could just fly from one side of the Pacific to the other.

Or a few dozen.
 
2014-08-26 11:11:43 AM  

theorellior: In aggregate, sure. Their bones, not so much. That's why fish have swim bladders and whales have lungs. Hit a blue whale at Mach 1 and there may be negative consequences.


Perhaps. But the forces required to split and displace water at this rate would have no problem splitting and separating bones as well.

Water jet cutters use velocities above the speed of sound in air, but well below the speed of sound in water, and they split stuff real good.

But, like I said, I'm no hydrodynamicist.
 
2014-08-26 11:11:49 AM  
They say they would be able to create a full-size supercavitating submarine capable of reaching the speed of sound underwater-about 3603 mph (5,800km/h).

cdn01.cdnwp.celebuzz.com
 
2014-08-26 11:15:37 AM  
if they can get it to work it'd be a pretty savvy investment.  A couple of these as a delivery system for nuclear torpedoes would be the perfect counter to foreign carrier groups.  Probably wouldn't cost nearly as much to maintain, either.  Could even be a threat to the mainland if/when the U.S. perfects its missile shield to boot.
 
2014-08-26 11:22:05 AM  
I don't believe them.
Someone else would have had to invent it so they can steal the technology.
 
2014-08-26 11:22:07 AM  

tricycleracer: They say they would be able to create a full-size supercavitating submarine capable of reaching the speed of sound underwater-about 3603 mph (5,800km/h).

[cdn01.cdnwp.celebuzz.com image 245x285]


Came here to post this precise gif. :(
 
2014-08-26 11:26:47 AM  
This is coming from a country that hasn't even managed to build an aircraft carrier.
I'm not going to start learning Mandarin to appease out new overlords yet.
 
2014-08-26 11:27:29 AM  
How is that easier than just using a missile?
 
2014-08-26 11:28:55 AM  

akula: Man... while it would be nearly unstoppable if it worked perfectly (it would be about impossible to get anything in place to stop it in time), one little fark up anywhere along the way and it all comes apart... literally.

That little bubble generator gets out of sync and the thing starts to yaw at speed and the turbulence will tear it apart. You get your navigation off by just a little bit and you hit something on the way, end up hundreds of miles off course, or don't stop in time and plow right into the beach.

Heck, it would be so noisy we'd be able to tell it was coming a ways off... a small ballistic missile with a nuclear depth charge and it never arrives anyway.


If they run out of bubbles and hit a wall of water at the speed of sound it would look like a beer can that got run over by a train.
 
2014-08-26 11:31:21 AM  

give me doughnuts: This is coming from a country that hasn't even managed to build an aircraft carrier.
I'm not going to start learning Mandarin to appease out new overlords yet.


I don't think "hasn't managed to build an aircraft carrier" is due to a lack of technical capability. They just don't want (or need) one.
 
2014-08-26 11:34:25 AM  
Or just plain old magma displacement.
 
2014-08-26 11:35:10 AM  

limboslam: "Cool" tag? So Subby thinks it's cool if China has the capability to park a sub in SF Bay with barely any warning?


Personally, I think its cool that China's military might drop a few billion dollars into a project that is doomed to failure.  The entire concept is ridiculous.  Basically what they are trying to make is a huge manned missile that travels underwater.  For a missile to travel that far, even through air it would need over 50 times the weight in fuel as it was pushing in payload.  In this case the payload would be a 4000 ton freaking submarine. That is 200,000 tons of fuel.  It would need a fuel tank the size of a small supertanker, and even that would only allow a one way trip, they would have to refuel to get home.

It would be just as easy to put a submarine in orbit, maybe easier since we have a much better understanding of aerodynamics than super calivation.

Also the article screwed up, the speed of sound in water is about 4000 mph, but this thing would be travelling in an air bubble so the speed would only be about 700 mph.  Maybe 8 hours to California.

Finally it would be completely blind when moving it travels through an air bubble so even if the flow noises didn't kill the sonar (it would) and the mother huge rocket engine didn't kill it (it would too) there would be no contact between the transducer and the water so no sonar.
 
2014-08-26 11:40:35 AM  
qorkfiend:
I don't think "hasn't managed to build an aircraft carrier" is due to a lack of technical capability. They just don't want (or need) one.

...other than the "training" carrier that's currently in service (the Liaoning, the former Russian carrier they rebuilt), and the two smaller ones that are under construction right now?

Not to mention the two or three larger carriers they've been talking about building (supposedly in service by 2020 or so)?
 
2014-08-26 11:45:18 AM  

cirby: qorkfiend:
I don't think "hasn't managed to build an aircraft carrier" is due to a lack of technical capability. They just don't want (or need) one.

...other than the "training" carrier that's currently in service (the Liaoning, the former Russian carrier they rebuilt), and the two smaller ones that are under construction right now?

Not to mention the two or three larger carriers they've been talking about building (supposedly in service by 2020 or so)?


Well, there you go. I guess they did decide they needed some carriers.

In any case, my original point still stands: the reason the Chinese didn't build any aircraft carriers until now wasn't because they lacked the technical capability.
 
2014-08-26 12:00:35 PM  
What is the turn radius of a submarine traveling at 3600mph?  The entire Pacific Rim?
 
2014-08-26 12:02:02 PM  
Have I got this straight, A $40 million computer tells you you're chasing an earthquake, but you don't believe it.
 
2014-08-26 12:19:40 PM  
Will they still want 50 watts per channel?
 
2014-08-26 12:19:54 PM  

Click Click D'oh: What is the turn radius of a submarine traveling at 3600mph?  The entire Pacific Rim?


It can't.

You have to slow way the heck down, THEN turn. Even the SR-71 is only claimed to do somewhere north of 2200mph and it wasn't all that maneuverable at full speed either. I don't think there's any way in hell, no matter what kind of bubble you make, that you're going to push a submerged craft to that kind of speed. It's not worth doing it for most aircraft, let alone something that size. Even assuming they're really talking about Mach 1 in air (about 700mph), you're still talking about something that can't turn at all because any contact with the water at that speed would be like hitting concrete.

If the Chinese want to waste their money on this, let 'em. But more likely somebody was talking pie in the sky stuff and some reporter actually thought they were serious. The Russians have had all kinds of issues getting the Shkval to work correctly and it's only a torpedo (and even then, no telling if it would actually be effective... my guess is you need a small nuclear warhead to do anything useful with one). A whole submarine? Haha... NO.
 
2014-08-26 12:22:33 PM  
akula:
Even the SR-71 is only claimed to do somewhere north of 2200mph and it wasn't all that maneuverable at full speed either.

I saw a speech by an SR-71 pilot. His answer to "what is the turn radius of an SR-71 going at full speed?" was "Montana."
 
2014-08-26 01:04:04 PM  
cdn.head-fi.org 

Crazy Ivan!
 
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