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(Al Jazeera)   Opinion: There may be better ways to keep kids off of your yard than by throwing them into Rikers Island   (america.aljazeera.com) divider line 54
    More: Interesting, head trauma, legal structure, solitary confinement, diversion program, broken windows, Department of Corrections, New York's Rikers Island  
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3758 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Aug 2014 at 1:46 PM (2 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-25 01:27:07 PM
So when I bought my house just down the street from a High School a few years ago, the one thing I looked forward to the most as a crotchety old guy was to finally be able to tell all those snotty kids to stay off the lawn.  Unfortunately, I apparently exude some kind of brat-repelling pheromones or something and all the goddamn kids give my yard a wide berth, staring at me wide-eyed in horror*as they run away, leaving me with no reasonable opportunity to snarl the kind of hateful insanity that would properly inculcate them into the world of adulthood.

According to TFA, I've been missing the whole 'drag them screaming into the yard against their will, THEN scream at them for being in the yard' step.

*Some might say I shouldn't stand naked on my doorstep holding a gun.  I disagree.
 
2014-08-25 01:37:34 PM
Yeah, well... that's just, like, your opinion, man.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-08-25 01:40:46 PM
There may be OTHER ways, but they can't be better.
 
2014-08-25 01:50:20 PM
There may be better ways to keep kids off of your yard than by throwing them into Rikers Island

Yeah, and sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'll never know 'cause I won't eat the dirty motherfarker.
 
2014-08-25 01:51:08 PM
Yea, put them on the away team instead.
 
2014-08-25 01:51:34 PM
So....don't go to prison. Problem solved.
 
2014-08-25 01:53:52 PM

toraque: So when I bought my house just down the street from a High School a few years ago, the one thing I looked forward to the most as a crotchety old guy was...


I thought you were going to say "...watching the young, nubile girls walking to and from school."
 
2014-08-25 01:55:47 PM
is that a euphemism?

img1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-08-25 01:55:49 PM
media.moddb.com
 
2014-08-25 01:55:57 PM
"Jailing Teens Criminalizes Them". Ric Romero reporting.

// actually, since it's Al-Jaz, would that be "Riga al-Romer"?
 
2014-08-25 01:57:01 PM

vpb: There may be OTHER ways, but they can't be better.

 
2014-08-25 01:57:48 PM
Better for who!?
 
2014-08-25 01:58:29 PM
We lived down the street from a high school.  We'd occasionally get a Jack in the Box bag in the yard or random kids throwing their trash in our trash can, but other than hearing the band practicing at 6 am it wasn't that big of a deal.
 
2014-08-25 01:59:41 PM
I for one don't see why we should use anything other than poorly formed hypotheses rooted in glaziery or baseball to conduct our criminal justice system.
 
2014-08-25 02:01:36 PM
www.gamutofgeek.com
 
2014-08-25 02:01:50 PM

TheGreatGazoo: random kids throwing their trash in our trash can


Shouldn't you encourage that sort of behavior? The alternative being littering, and all...
 
2014-08-25 02:01:57 PM
/oblig
ravenrepublic.net
 
2014-08-25 02:02:34 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: toraque: So when I bought my house just down the street from a High School a few years ago, the one thing I looked forward to the most as a crotchety old guy was...

I thought you were going to say "...watching the young, nubile girls walking to and from school."


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-08-25 02:03:30 PM

toraque: So when I bought my house just down the street from a High School a few years ago, the one thing I looked forward to the most as a crotchety old guy was to finally be able to tell all those snotty kids to stay off the lawn.  Unfortunately, I apparently exude some kind of brat-repelling pheromones or something and all the goddamn kids give my yard a wide berth, staring at me wide-eyed in horror*as they run away, leaving me with no reasonable opportunity to snarl the kind of hateful insanity that would properly inculcate them into the world of adulthood.

According to TFA, I've been missing the whole 'drag them screaming into the yard against their will, THEN scream at them for being in the yard' step.

*Some might say I shouldn't stand naked on my doorstep holding a gun.  I disagree.


I moved out into the woods.  The only kids I see are out once a month and kind of slowly longboard along the road, minding their own business and causing no trouble.

Back in the apartment living days, they were little screaming terrors.  I always thought the best solution would have been to drag their parents away from World of Warcraft and jail them overnight.
 
2014-08-25 02:08:35 PM
One year at Boy Scout camp one of the leaders was an orderly at one of the state mental institutions.  He knew all the pressure points and took great joy sneaking up behind random scouts and either causing brief pain or numbing a muscle causing scouts to fall over.  Don't know if he was typical but reading the article it seems that sadist are attracted to position where violence is tolerated.
 
2014-08-25 02:09:05 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: toraque: So when I bought my house just down the street from a High School a few years ago, the one thing I looked forward to the most as a crotchety old guy was...

I thought you were going to say "...watching the young, nubile girls walking to and from school."


"That's what I love about these high school girls, man. I get older, they stay the same age."

www.threeimaginarygirls.com
 
2014-08-25 02:13:02 PM

Ker_Thwap: toraque: So when I bought my house just down the street from a High School a few years ago, the one thing I looked forward to the most as a crotchety old guy was to finally be able to tell all those snotty kids to stay off the lawn.  Unfortunately, I apparently exude some kind of brat-repelling pheromones or something and all the goddamn kids give my yard a wide berth, staring at me wide-eyed in horror*as they run away, leaving me with no reasonable opportunity to snarl the kind of hateful insanity that would properly inculcate them into the world of adulthood.

According to TFA, I've been missing the whole 'drag them screaming into the yard against their will, THEN scream at them for being in the yard' step.

*Some might say I shouldn't stand naked on my doorstep holding a gun.  I disagree.

I moved out into the woods.  The only kids I see are out once a month and kind of slowly longboard along the road, minding their own business and causing no trouble.

Back in the apartment living days, they were little screaming terrors.  I always thought the best solution would have been to drag their parents away from World of Warcraft and jail them overnight.


I envy you. I grew up in the country and thought I'd like life in the suburbs. It feels too crowded even with privacy fences and curtains. I feel like every one of my neighbors is up in my business. Life is a lot more relaxing when you can't see a neighbor's house from your own.
 
2014-08-25 02:22:46 PM
Works for J Jonah Jameson...
 
2014-08-25 02:30:46 PM
"There may be better ways to keep kids off of your yard than by throwing them into Rikers Island"

I've had no problems since I replanted it in poison oak.
 
2014-08-25 02:36:02 PM
While it might screw them up for life and make them worse, what's the alternative there Opinion Writer?

holistic social services

....
well then. Yeah let's get right on that...

I understand that some kids come from that kind of traumatized screwed up background and prison can and will make them worse, but unless you've got an alternative that's fiscally reasonable, then for the time being, sucks to be them.
 
2014-08-25 02:37:34 PM
Oh, yeah, subby? You know who served 9 years of hard time on a 10- to 20-year sentence for a first-offense mugging? 21-year-old John Dillinger. And look how well that worked out.
 
2014-08-25 02:43:27 PM
After Rikers, most teens would rather have been thrown to actual pigs.
rather than having had to deal with the NYPD's finest actual pigs.
 
2014-08-25 02:43:33 PM

LazyMedia: Oh, yeah, subby? You know who served 9 years of hard time on a 10- to 20-year sentence for a first-offense mugging? 21-year-old John Dillinger. And look how well that worked out.


If only John could have been slathered in " supportive social programs - within their communities."

Surely things would have been all rainbows and puppies for John.

Social programs ... always the answer
 
2014-08-25 02:49:47 PM

Capo Del Bandito: I understand that some kids come from that kind of traumatized screwed up background and prison can and will make them worse, but unless you've got an alternative that's fiscally reasonable, then for the time being, sucks to be them.


The fiscally responsible thing would be to offer mental health services before they start committing crimes.  I'd argue that kids should be screened starting in the first grade.

The broken window scheme of crime prevention is great and all, but unless you deal with the broken family problem as well, you're just going to end up with a massive prison population and one less person contributing to the tax base.
 
2014-08-25 02:51:23 PM
Article is long on platitudes and short on specifics and most of it deals with police misconduct which is an entirely different issue (even in bleeding heart article writers world police will still have to interact with kids committing vandalism--or are they supposed to just look away when youts are doing it).

You want to change laws so kids who are caught committing vandalism, petty theft, drug posession w/o intent to distribute, simple assault (i.e. a fistfight), by all means go ahead and I will support you.

If you want to coddle "kids" who are committing aggravated assualt, assault with a deadly weapon, rape, murder, robbery, multiple burglaries  then they are not going to Rikers to be rehabilitated, but to get them away from normal people living their lives.
 
2014-08-25 02:51:43 PM

Capo Del Bandito: I understand that some kids come from that kind of traumatized screwed up background and prison can and will make them worse, but unless you've got an alternative that's fiscally reasonable, then for the time being, sucks to be them.


Here's a fiscally responsible alternative...

If you wouldn't put a CEO's son in jail for it, don't put a poor black kid in jail for it.
 
2014-08-25 02:56:30 PM
But I feel young and powerful again when I send a child to prison to be raped, It's almost like I matter once more.
 
2014-08-25 02:57:53 PM

Dinjiin: Capo Del Bandito: I understand that some kids come from that kind of traumatized screwed up background and prison can and will make them worse, but unless you've got an alternative that's fiscally reasonable, then for the time being, sucks to be them.

The fiscally responsible thing would be to offer mental health services before they start committing crimes.  I'd argue that kids should be screened starting in the first grade.

The broken window scheme of crime prevention is great and all, but unless you deal with the broken family problem as well, you're just going to end up with a massive prison population and one less person contributing to the tax base.


The problem with early screening is that the stigma of mental health issue will make many parents opt out of any screening or treatment. I agree with you that mental health issues and lack of treatment are one of the root problems with America (one that we have the tools to fix now), but as long as it is so misunderstood and horribly portrayed in popular culture it will not be dealt with.
 
2014-08-25 03:01:11 PM
I moved out to bum fark Arkansas. No kids ever. But those dang motorcyclist and bicyclist. They love the mountain roads.
I exude grumpy cat from every pore.

Hated living in little rock, to many people.
 
2014-08-25 03:12:23 PM

jshine: Sin_City_Superhero: toraque: So when I bought my house just down the street from a High School a few years ago, the one thing I looked forward to the most as a crotchety old guy was...

I thought you were going to say "...watching the young, nubile girls walking to and from school."

[upload.wikimedia.org image 314x342]


I'm pretty sure he likes little boys...
 
2014-08-25 03:20:34 PM
Land mines?
 
2014-08-25 03:25:43 PM
Yes...throw them into Alcatraz, Leavenworth, Sing Sing, Joliet, Guantanamo Bay.....if you've got the
time, we've got the jail.
 
2014-08-25 03:30:43 PM

Dinjiin: The fiscally responsible thing would be to offer mental health services before they start committing crimes. I'd argue that kids should be screened starting in the first grade.


Yeah you're dreaming. Mental instability like that isn't a precursor to crime in *every* case. And neither does being mentally unstable lead to crime.

12349876: Capo Del Bandito: I understand that some kids come from that kind of traumatized screwed up background and prison can and will make them worse, but unless you've got an alternative that's fiscally reasonable, then for the time being, sucks to be them.

Here's a fiscally responsible alternative...

If you wouldn't put a CEO's son in jail for it, don't put a poor black kid in jail for it.


Why not send them both?

That's more a problem with the judges than it is the prison system itself.

Instead of turning it into race how about making it 'send all the criminals to prison"?
 
2014-08-25 03:44:59 PM
If you get pinched on a narco rap, you can beat the rap by ratting on some bikers.
Sure, you know it's dangerous, but it sure beats Riker's.
Unless you get offed the very next day - by the very same bikers.

You'd be a person who died... died...
 
2014-08-25 03:46:13 PM

Cheron: One year at Boy Scout camp one of the leaders was an orderly at one of the state mental institutions.  He knew all the pressure points and took great joy sneaking up behind random scouts and either causing brief pain or numbing a muscle causing scouts to fall over.  Don't know if he was typical but reading the article it seems that sadist are attracted to position where violence is tolerated.


So... Boy Scouts?
 
2014-08-25 04:17:47 PM

Capo Del Bandito: Yeah you're dreaming. Mental instability like that isn't a precursor to crime in *every* case. And neither does being mentally unstable lead to crime.


It doesn't always need to reach a point where they'd be classified as mentally unstable.  You also have less severe behavioral issues going on because of broken homes.  For example, most of the bullies I knew in elementary school had a parent who was either a drunk, a bully themselves or going through some struggle (like job loss or divorce), and the kid was either acting out or they were mimicking very bad role models.

Do all of those kids grow up to be adult criminals?  No.  But a lot of them did things that could (or did) land them in Juvee.
 
2014-08-25 04:31:12 PM
How about the East River? Can we still throw them in there?
 
2014-08-25 04:40:38 PM

toadist: LazyMedia: Oh, yeah, subby? You know who served 9 years of hard time on a 10- to 20-year sentence for a first-offense mugging? 21-year-old John Dillinger. And look how well that worked out.

If only John could have been slathered in " supportive social programs - within their communities."

Surely things would have been all rainbows and puppies for John.

Social programs ... always the answer


Well, he was kind of a born crook, but he'd have gotten a lot weaker education on bank robbery through his local supportive social programs than he got in the Michigan City pen. Probably wouldn't have had quite so desperate an attitude about avoiding arrest, either, and wouldn't have killed a cop.

Social programs are no panacea, but mandatory minimum sentences aren't, either.
 
2014-08-25 04:42:59 PM

Capo Del Bandito: Dinjiin: The fiscally responsible thing would be to offer mental health services before they start committing crimes. I'd argue that kids should be screened starting in the first grade.

Yeah you're dreaming. Mental instability like that isn't a precursor to crime in *every* case. And neither does being mentally unstable lead to crime.

12349876: Capo Del Bandito: I understand that some kids come from that kind of traumatized screwed up background and prison can and will make them worse, but unless you've got an alternative that's fiscally reasonable, then for the time being, sucks to be them.

Here's a fiscally responsible alternative...

If you wouldn't put a CEO's son in jail for it, don't put a poor black kid in jail for it.

Why not send them both?

That's more a problem with the judges than it is the prison system itself.

Instead of turning it into race how about making it 'send all the criminals to prison"?


Because that's expensive, stupid, and how they do it in fascist countries. Teenagers who break the law generally aren't "criminals," but you can pretty easily turn them into that in prison. There are all sorts of ways you can sort out a kid's bad behavior that are smarter than putting them in jail. You just have to give a crap.
 
2014-08-25 04:44:03 PM

Dinjiin: Capo Del Bandito: I understand that some kids come from that kind of traumatized screwed up background and prison can and will make them worse, but unless you've got an alternative that's fiscally reasonable, then for the time being, sucks to be them.

The fiscally responsible thing would be to offer mental health services before they start committing crimes.  I'd argue that kids should be screened starting in the first grade.

The broken window scheme of crime prevention is great and all, but unless you deal with the broken family problem as well, you're just going to end up with a massive prison population and one less person contributing to the tax base.


eh, just give them a boxed set of Mr rogers episodes, that should be cheap enough.
 
2014-08-25 04:52:12 PM
After reading that, it sounds like prison guards should be required to wear body cameras too, not just cops.
 
2014-08-25 05:01:29 PM

Dinjiin: It doesn't always need to reach a point where they'd be classified as mentally unstable. You also have less severe behavioral issues going on because of broken homes. For example, most of the bullies I knew in elementary school had a parent who was either a drunk, a bully themselves or going through some struggle (like job loss or divorce), and the kid was either acting out or they were mimicking very bad role models.


Ahh unlawful searching and whatnot then. Gotcha. No civil violations there.

LazyMedia: Because that's expensive, stupid, and how they do it in fascist countries. Teenagers who break the law generally aren't "criminals," but you can pretty easily turn them into that in prison. There are all sorts of ways you can sort out a kid's bad behavior that are smarter than putting them in jail. You just have to give a crap.


So your idea is to coddle them and treat them as headcases, even if they aren't, and/or let them get away with it?

Because if they're not adults they shouldn't be punished severely. Nope.
 
2014-08-25 05:07:11 PM

Capo Del Bandito: Ahh unlawful searching and whatnot then.


Care to explain?
 
2014-08-25 05:38:52 PM

Dinjiin: Care to explain?


Unless the child warrants any reason to be examined in the first place, s'kinda a whole 'invasion of privacy' thing, unless when you said 'screening at the first grade' you *only* meant kids who were showing signs like that anyway.

Otherwise it's a whole 'Big Brother is watching you"/People involved in private affairs they shouldn't be involved in on the off chance they find one that needs help. That whole 'greater good inconvenience everyone else' bullshiat people seem to be into these days.
 
2014-08-25 06:43:33 PM

Capo Del Bandito: 12349876: Capo Del Bandito: I understand that some kids come from that kind of traumatized screwed up background and prison can and will make them worse, but unless you've got an alternative that's fiscally reasonable, then for the time being, sucks to be them.

Here's a fiscally responsible alternative...

If you wouldn't put a CEO's son in jail for it, don't put a poor black kid in jail for it.

Why not send them both?

That's more a problem with the judges than it is the prison system itself.

Instead of turning it into race how about making it 'send all the criminals to prison"?


There are TONS of situations on a daily basis where only one is getting sent to prison.  Things like school fights and petty vandalism and shoplifting.  There was that 17 year old white rich kid not too long ago who killed people while driving drunk and avoided prison time.  And just because it doesn't directly relate to a prison doesn't take away the fact that it's a solution.
 
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