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(Wisconsin State Journal)   A "job creation" agency started by WI Gov. Scott Walker gives $6 million in tax credits to Ashley Furniture - which then turns around and announces they are cutting 1,900 jobs   (host.madison.com ) divider line
    More: Fail, WEDC CEO, Ashley Furniture, State Journal, tax credits, Wisconsin Economic Development Corp., Kenosha, Stevens Point, closed sessions  
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3338 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 Aug 2014 at 6:59 PM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-24 04:42:59 PM  
ASHLEY furniture in MADISON Wisconsin?

Are we sure Walker isn't just spending a lot of money on some outside lovin'?
 
2014-08-24 04:58:11 PM  
"It is more expensive for Ashley to manufacture in Arcadia than it is to do so closer to its major markets..."

I'm just going to guess that China isn't exactly closer to their major markets.
 
2014-08-24 05:07:40 PM  
b-b-b-b-but SOLYNDRA!!1!
 
2014-08-24 05:15:39 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: "It is more expensive for Ashley to manufacture in Arcadia than it is to do so closer to its major markets..."

I'm just going to guess that China isn't exactly closer to their major markets.


I think that is more code for "other places are willing to give us massive tax credits to move."

My home town went through a similar thing. The main company threatened to move and demanded massive tax credits to stay. The town is pretty dependent on that company so they agreed to it. Company added a bunch of low paying jobs in a different sector (call center) while cutting all the high paying ones (management,R & D). It's a tough choice to make. Lose the company and the town is seriously hurt. Lose the taxes and the town is still hurt. They have been trying to add new companies and jobs to the area. but they all want sweetheart deals as well. But at this point just surviving is an accomplishment

\foreign owned company (now)
 
2014-08-24 05:16:17 PM  
It would have been 1,905 jobs cut without the $6 million.
 
2014-08-24 05:34:57 PM  

Tellingthem: ecmoRandomNumbers: "It is more expensive for Ashley to manufacture in Arcadia than it is to do so closer to its major markets..."

I'm just going to guess that China isn't exactly closer to their major markets.

I think that is more code for "other places are willing to give us massive tax credits to move."

My home town went through a similar thing. The main company threatened to move and demanded massive tax credits to stay. The town is pretty dependent on that company so they agreed to it. Company added a bunch of low paying jobs in a different sector (call center) while cutting all the high paying ones (management,R & D). It's a tough choice to make. Lose the company and the town is seriously hurt. Lose the taxes and the town is still hurt. They have been trying to add new companies and jobs to the area. but they all want sweetheart deals as well. But at this point just surviving is an accomplishment

\foreign owned company (now)


I think with sporting venues and companies that get tax breaks from local and state government they should have to swap shares that they buy back as they pay down the loan. If they choose to leave they would have to buy out the towns shares

//I know, lala land
 
2014-08-24 05:43:25 PM  

zedster: Tellingthem: ecmoRandomNumbers: "It is more expensive for Ashley to manufacture in Arcadia than it is to do so closer to its major markets..."

I'm just going to guess that China isn't exactly closer to their major markets.

I think that is more code for "other places are willing to give us massive tax credits to move."

My home town went through a similar thing. The main company threatened to move and demanded massive tax credits to stay. The town is pretty dependent on that company so they agreed to it. Company added a bunch of low paying jobs in a different sector (call center) while cutting all the high paying ones (management,R & D). It's a tough choice to make. Lose the company and the town is seriously hurt. Lose the taxes and the town is still hurt. They have been trying to add new companies and jobs to the area. but they all want sweetheart deals as well. But at this point just surviving is an accomplishment

\foreign owned company (now)

I think with sporting venues and companies that get tax breaks from local and state government they should have to swap shares that they buy back as they pay down the loan. If they choose to leave they would have to buy out the towns shares

//I know, lala land


Maybe or make some kind of stronger rules for these credits. It sucks that they can hold an entire town hostage. But that is all part of Globalization I guess. Why should some executive overseas care about us or our town? He just looks at a piece of paper and figures they can make a few more million by giving us a squeeze. But what can you do?

Actually not even globalization Hollywood plays the same game. "Give us money and we'll shoot a film in your city. Stop giving us money and we'll move somewhere that will."
 
2014-08-24 06:54:08 PM  
So they get money for not producing anything. Sure sounds like welfare.
 
2014-08-24 06:57:00 PM  
We bought a coffee table from Ashley once.  Sales guy told us it was solid pine under the laminate.  The laminate seperated from the top in less than 2 months and it was chip board underneath.

That is my only experience from that company.
 
2014-08-24 07:05:05 PM  
31.media.tumblr.com

38.media.tumblr.com

31.media.tumblr.com

37.media.tumblr.com
37.media.tumblr.com
31.media.tumblr.com
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38.media.tumblr.com

Things my wife made recently.
 
2014-08-24 07:05:42 PM  

Tellingthem: ecmoRandomNumbers: "It is more expensive for Ashley to manufacture in Arcadia than it is to do so closer to its major markets..."

I'm just going to guess that China isn't exactly closer to their major markets.

I think that is more code for "other places are willing to give us massive tax credits to move."

My home town went through a similar thing. The main company threatened to move and demanded massive tax credits to stay. The town is pretty dependent on that company so they agreed to it. Company added a bunch of low paying jobs in a different sector (call center) while cutting all the high paying ones (management,R & D). It's a tough choice to make. Lose the company and the town is seriously hurt. Lose the taxes and the town is still hurt. They have been trying to add new companies and jobs to the area. but they all want sweetheart deals as well. But at this point just surviving is an accomplishment

\foreign owned company (now)


Living in Oregon I see Nike and Intel getting breaks like this all the time. At least Intel has to promise to actually add jobs in exchange for its tax break.
 
2014-08-24 07:10:25 PM  

fusillade762: Tellingthem: ecmoRandomNumbers: "It is more expensive for Ashley to manufacture in Arcadia than it is to do so closer to its major markets..."

I'm just going to guess that China isn't exactly closer to their major markets.

I think that is more code for "other places are willing to give us massive tax credits to move."

My home town went through a similar thing. The main company threatened to move and demanded massive tax credits to stay. The town is pretty dependent on that company so they agreed to it. Company added a bunch of low paying jobs in a different sector (call center) while cutting all the high paying ones (management,R & D). It's a tough choice to make. Lose the company and the town is seriously hurt. Lose the taxes and the town is still hurt. They have been trying to add new companies and jobs to the area. but they all want sweetheart deals as well. But at this point just surviving is an accomplishment

\foreign owned company (now)

Living in Oregon I see Nike and Intel getting breaks like this all the time. At least Intel has to promise to actually add jobs in exchange for its tax break.


Yeah that company made the same promise hence the call center jobs. They added what they said they would and then slashed and burned a bunch of others..
 
2014-08-24 07:10:29 PM  

Heliovdrake: [31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

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[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[38.media.tumblr.com image 850x1133]

Things my wife made recently.


www.geekalerts.com
 
2014-08-24 07:10:31 PM  

Heliovdrake: [31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[38.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

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Things my wife made recently.


wrong thread bro?

/stuff is still cool
 
2014-08-24 07:13:41 PM  
Intel gets to make fab jobs, not engineering jobs.  30 years of tax free for fabs in Oregon.  Washington county bent over so far for them, they really should just change the name to Intel county.  Just wait for the 10000 more kids in Hillsboro school district but no more money from the intel taxes.  Livability is going downhill in hillsboro thanks to takers.
 
2014-08-24 07:14:00 PM  

mrshowrules: We bought a coffee table from Ashley once.  Sales guy told us it was solid pine under the laminate.  The laminate seperated from the top in less than 2 months and it was chip board underneath.

That is my only experience from that company.


No offense, but really, pine laminate? You're lucky it didn't explode into saw dust when you got it home.
 
2014-08-24 07:15:01 PM  

Heliovdrake: [31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[38.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

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[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]
[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[38.media.tumblr.com image 850x1133]

Things my wife made recently.


The dragon-wing cock-ring is intriguing.
 
2014-08-24 07:15:15 PM  
The state of North Carolina gave Dell a lot of money several years ago in the form of tax credits. After about two years, Dell pulled up stakes and relocated. But the movie industry, which has proven to be a significant net benefit to the state's coffers as well as the tourism, retail, hotel, and restaurant industries, can't keep a tax credit.
 
2014-08-24 07:16:04 PM  
Heliovdrake:

Things my wife made recently.

VERY VERY COOL!
 
2014-08-24 07:16:18 PM  

mrshowrules: We bought a coffee table from Ashley once.  Sales guy told us it was solid pine under the laminate.  The laminate seperated from the top in less than 2 months and it was chip board underneath.

That is my only experience from that company.


out of curiosity - why would you buy pine covered in laminate?
 
2014-08-24 07:18:14 PM  

Uglybarnacle: Heliovdrake: [31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[38.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

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[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]
[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[38.media.tumblr.com image 850x1133]

Things my wife made recently.

wrong thread bro?

/stuff is still cool


FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFfffffffffffffffffffffff

Yeah this was supposed to be in a TFD thread Ffffffffffffffff
 
2014-08-24 07:18:38 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Heliovdrake: [31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[38.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[37.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]
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[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]
[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[38.media.tumblr.com image 850x1133]

Things my wife made recently.

The dragon-wing cock-ring is intriguing.


flap flap flap
 
2014-08-24 07:19:29 PM  

edmo: So they get money for not producing anything. Sure sounds like welfare.


Actually they're getting paid for destroying something valuable. Mitt Romney would be proud.
 
2014-08-24 07:21:04 PM  

Heliovdrake: [31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

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[38.media.tumblr.com image 850x1133]

Things my wife made recently.



I'm intrigue, what thread did you mean to post this.
 
2014-08-24 07:21:10 PM  

mrshowrules: We bought a coffee table from Ashley once.  Sales guy told us it was solid pine under the laminate.  The laminate seperated from the top in less than 2 months and it was chip board underneath.


Um... Why would you laminate solid pine?
 
2014-08-24 07:23:20 PM  
Don't worry, he hired some Keynesians to explain without the subsidy it would have been 3 trillion jobs lost and the spending created 50 billion in revenue due to multipliers.
 
2014-08-24 07:23:50 PM  

dennysgod: Heliovdrake: [31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[38.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[37.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]
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[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]
[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[38.media.tumblr.com image 850x1133]

Things my wife made recently.


I'm intrigue, what thread did you mean to post this.


http://www.fark.com/comments/8386948/What-is-last-thing-you-made-Com e- show-your-talent-here#new  This one.
 
2014-08-24 07:24:24 PM  

Heliovdrake: [31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

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[38.media.tumblr.com image 850x1133]

Things my wife made recently.


Mind me asking what she used to make the D20?
 
2014-08-24 07:24:34 PM  
You see, it's working as intended. Here's how the whole Jerb Creator thing is supposed to work:

1) Business-friendly Government enacts policies to give tax breaks and financial incentives to business owners.
2) Rich guys get richer.
3) Sorry, there is no three
 
2014-08-24 07:25:27 PM  

UNC_Samurai: The state of North Carolina gave Dell a lot of money several years ago in the form of tax credits. After about two years, Dell pulled up stakes and relocated. But the movie industry, which has proven to be a significant net benefit to the state's coffers as well as the tourism, retail, hotel, and restaurant industries, can't keep a tax credit.


That's the thing. It's not enough to have tax credits, but to target them to reward folks for things that they're doing, and to encourage them to keep doing them. You don't do them, or you quit, you don't get your cookie. Tax cuts need to be targeted, and not just lobbied for. Because then you get stuff like this.
 
2014-08-24 07:27:41 PM  

Veloram: Heliovdrake: [31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[38.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[37.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]
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[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]
[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[38.media.tumblr.com image 850x1133]

Things my wife made recently.

Mind me asking what she used to make the D20?


Oh, Its a prototype... its soap... the idea is to sell it to gamers... custom scents like mint etc, also we want to put a D20 inside the soap D20
 
2014-08-24 07:27:57 PM  

MrBallou: You see, it's working as intended. Here's how the whole Jerb Creator thing is supposed to work:

1) Business-friendly Government enacts policies to give tax breaks and financial incentives to business owners.
2) Rich guys get richer.
3) Sorry, there is no three


Ding ding. The Fail tag is inappropriate - Walker's policies are working exactly as he intended.
 
2014-08-24 07:31:03 PM  

Heliovdrake: [31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

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[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

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[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]
[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[38.media.tumblr.com image 850x1133]

Things my wife made recently.


She made you a codpiece shaped like a bat? nicccceeee.
 
2014-08-24 07:31:05 PM  

MrBallou: You see, it's working as intended. Here's how the whole Jerb Creator thing is supposed to work:

1) Business-friendly Government enacts policies to give tax breaks and financial incentives to business owners.
2) Rich guys get richer.
3) Sorry, there is no three

 
2014-08-24 07:32:49 PM  

parasol: mrshowrules: We bought a coffee table from Ashley once.  Sales guy told us it was solid pine under the laminate.  The laminate seperated from the top in less than 2 months and it was chip board underneath.

That is my only experience from that company.

out of curiosity - why would you buy pine covered in laminate?


my wife bought it.  Ex-wife actually.  No, it was not the cause of the separation.
 
2014-08-24 07:33:56 PM  

Mrbogey: Don't worry, he hired some Keynesians to explain without the subsidy it would have been 3 trillion jobs lost and the spending created 50 billion in revenue due to multipliers.


You do know that Republicans take advantage of tax credits rights?

You know all of those places to claim they're "friendly to business"? It's because they're willing to throw millions in tax credits to bring companies to their areas, especially in red states. Texas does this, Kansas does this, Florida does this, and apparently Wisconsin did this as well.
 
2014-08-24 07:33:59 PM  

Heliovdrake: Veloram: Heliovdrake: [31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[38.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[37.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]
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[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]
[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[38.media.tumblr.com image 850x1133]

Things my wife made recently.

Mind me asking what she used to make the D20?

Oh, Its a prototype... its soap... the idea is to sell it to gamers... custom scents like mint etc, also we want to put a D20 inside the soap D20


I'd probably buy one.
 
2014-08-24 07:35:05 PM  

MrBallou: You see, it's working as intended. Here's how the whole Jerb Creator thing is supposed to work:

1) Business-friendly Government enacts policies to give tax breaks and financial incentives to business owners.
2) Rich guys get richer.

3) Sorry, there is no three


images.dailykos.com

(Not sure why it stripped the image out of my other post? It previewed fine. Somebody nix it.)
 
2014-08-24 07:39:08 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Mrbogey: Don't worry, he hired some Keynesians to explain without the subsidy it would have been 3 trillion jobs lost and the spending created 50 billion in revenue due to multipliers.

You do know that Republicans take advantage of tax credits rights?

You know all of those places to claim they're "friendly to business"? It's because they're willing to throw millions in tax credits to bring companies to their areas, especially in red states. Texas does this, Kansas does this, Florida does this, and apparently Wisconsin did this as well.


Don't be so high & mighty, almost every state does this. And some countries.

taxfoundation.org
 
2014-08-24 07:39:53 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Mrbogey: Don't worry, he hired some Keynesians to explain without the subsidy it would have been 3 trillion jobs lost and the spending created 50 billion in revenue due to multipliers.

You do know that Republicans take advantage of tax credits rights?

You know all of those places to claim they're "friendly to business"? It's because they're willing to throw millions in tax credits to bring companies to their areas, especially in red states. Texas does this, Kansas does this, Florida does this, and apparently Wisconsin did this as well.


Exactly, it can attract businesses, at least in the short term, who want to take advantage of the tax savings, but it's far from a perfect plan as:

1. By offering the tax credits or discounts the state/county/city loses out on the lion's share of the tax revenue from that business, which is one of the reasons municipalities want to attract businesses in the first place

2. It usually attracts cheap businesses who focus on the bottom line to the exclusion of everything else, including the welfare of the community in which they are located

and

3. There are usually no safeguards in place to keep the business around when the tax credits expire - which just leads to them threatening to leave when they're due to actually start contributing their fair share unless those tax abatements are renewed.

So, while you may get short term job growth, you don't get the fully benefit of having that business in your area, the jobs are oftentimes crap because the company is cheap to begin with, and they'll just pack up and leave if you don't keep letting them shirk their financial duty to the area.
 
2014-08-24 07:40:20 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Mrbogey: Don't worry, he hired some Keynesians to explain without the subsidy it would have been 3 trillion jobs lost and the spending created 50 billion in revenue due to multipliers.

You do know that Republicans take advantage of tax credits rights?

You know all of those places to claim they're "friendly to business"? It's because they're willing to throw millions in tax credits to bring companies to their areas, especially in red states. Texas does this, Kansas does this, Florida does this, and apparently Wisconsin did this as well.


Yeah, the assholes states that lower the bar for every other state. You know what would happen if a company said, we're going to move if you don't give us X and everywhere else said, sorry we don't deal in extortion? The company would stay put and the workers / citizens would benefit.
 
2014-08-24 07:40:55 PM  

Heliovdrake: [31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[38.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[37.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]
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[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]
[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[38.media.tumblr.com image 850x1133]

Things my wife made recently.


www.reactiongifs.us
 
2014-08-24 07:42:14 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Mrtraveler01: Mrbogey: Don't worry, he hired some Keynesians to explain without the subsidy it would have been 3 trillion jobs lost and the spending created 50 billion in revenue due to multipliers.

You do know that Republicans take advantage of tax credits rights?

You know all of those places to claim they're "friendly to business"? It's because they're willing to throw millions in tax credits to bring companies to their areas, especially in red states. Texas does this, Kansas does this, Florida does this, and apparently Wisconsin did this as well.

Exactly, it can attract businesses, at least in the short term, who want to take advantage of the tax savings, but it's far from a perfect plan as:

1. By offering the tax credits or discounts the state/county/city loses out on the lion's share of the tax revenue from that business, which is one of the reasons municipalities want to attract businesses in the first place

2. It usually attracts cheap businesses who focus on the bottom line to the exclusion of everything else, including the welfare of the community in which they are located

and

3. There are usually no safeguards in place to keep the business around when the tax credits expire - which just leads to them threatening to leave when they're due to actually start contributing their fair share unless those tax abatements are renewed.

So, while you may get short term job growth, you don't get the fully benefit of having that business in your area, the jobs are oftentimes crap because the company is cheap to begin with, and they'll just pack up and leave if you don't keep letting them shirk their financial duty to the area.


Yeah, if a company moves to your state solely for lower taxes, it's probably bringing shiatty jobs.
 
2014-08-24 07:43:06 PM  

KarmicDisaster: Heliovdrake: [31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[38.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

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[38.media.tumblr.com image 850x1133]

Things my wife made recently.

She made you a codpiece shaped like a bat? nicccceeee.


31.media.tumblr.com

Its an arm cuff for "cosplay"
 
2014-08-24 07:43:17 PM  

GrailOfThunder: Mrtraveler01: Mrbogey: Don't worry, he hired some Keynesians to explain without the subsidy it would have been 3 trillion jobs lost and the spending created 50 billion in revenue due to multipliers.

You do know that Republicans take advantage of tax credits rights?

You know all of those places to claim they're "friendly to business"? It's because they're willing to throw millions in tax credits to bring companies to their areas, especially in red states. Texas does this, Kansas does this, Florida does this, and apparently Wisconsin did this as well.

Don't be so high & mighty, almost every state does this. And some countries.

[taxfoundation.org image 479x457]


I know that.

I just find it interesting that places like Texas still have to throw millions in incentives to get companies to move there even after cutting taxes so low already.
 
2014-08-24 07:46:13 PM  
Kansas City Border War

Missouri company goes to Kansas, offers to jump across the border in exchange for tax cuts.  Company then goes to Missouri and lets them counter offer.  Company then jumps to Kansas.  Kansans thumps their chests, not realizing that they basically got nothing in the deal.  Company is sold to a foreign company that decides having a world headquarters in Overland Park is dumb, moves headquarters to LA.  AMC Theaters and Sprint are already in this pipeline.  Instead of building up the entire metro area, the dummies slash each others throats and the companies walk away with the jobs and the tax money.  The states are finally starting to wise up, but that will only last until the Brownbackians finally take over Missouri.
 
2014-08-24 07:48:26 PM  
I used to work in the Arcadia plant, Ashley is not too bad to work for as long as you are hourly rather than piece rate. And they have good insurance. That being said, I would NEVER buy a piece of furniture built there. Everything is chipboard covered in paper laminate or upholstered using the cheapest materials possible. Ashley as a company does produce some nice furniture, but not in Arcadia.

In addition,  in the Arcadia plant there were some issues with ICE awhile back.
 
2014-08-24 07:49:40 PM  

Heliovdrake: Uglybarnacle: Heliovdrake: [31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[38.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

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[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]
[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[38.media.tumblr.com image 850x1133]

Things my wife made recently.

wrong thread bro?

/stuff is still cool

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFfffffffffffffffffffffff

Yeah this was supposed to be in a TFD thread Ffffffffffffffff


Ah.  I thought you were going to demand 6 months of TF or you move shop to Belize.
 
2014-08-24 07:52:51 PM  

Heliovdrake: Veloram: Heliovdrake: [31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

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[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]
[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[38.media.tumblr.com image 850x1133]

Things my wife made recently.

Mind me asking what she used to make the D20?

Oh, Its a prototype... its soap... the idea is to sell it to gamers... custom scents like mint etc, also we want to put a D20 inside the soap D20


i.imgflip.com
 
2014-08-24 07:53:25 PM  

Heliovdrake: KarmicDisaster: Heliovdrake: [31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[38.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[37.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]
[37.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]
[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]
[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

[38.media.tumblr.com image 850x1133]

Things my wife made recently.

She made you a codpiece shaped like a bat? nicccceeee.

[31.media.tumblr.com image 850x637]

Its an arm cuff for "cosplay"


Yeah, um, Okayyyy.. For your "arm".
 
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