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(AZCentral)   Self-help guru who served prison time for the deaths of three people in an Arizona sweat lodge returns to Arizona to host several motivational seminars on how to deal with a personal crisis   (azcentral.com) divider line 44
    More: Asinine  
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2840 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Aug 2014 at 9:38 AM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



44 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-08-24 02:11:39 AM  
doubtfulnewscom.c.presscdn.com

Was it George or Oscar?
 
2014-08-24 03:29:13 AM  
It's like sociopathic con-men just can't stop themselves. However, whoever bought a ticket to this thing deserves to be fleeced.
 
2014-08-24 05:35:12 AM  
Don't sweat it
 
2014-08-24 09:29:22 AM  
Actually, he'd be qualified to do this. Getting over a "personal crisis" in prison would be a hard thing to do.
 
2014-08-24 09:48:19 AM  
I just saw the 'Dateline' episode about that incident. I agree with ecmo..., anyone who buys a ticket is gonna get what they deserve.
 
2014-08-24 09:49:00 AM  
Did he become " The Butt Love Guru" in prison?
 
2014-08-24 09:53:15 AM  
People like this guy are precisely why we have regulations to protect the consumer.

The entire philosophy of "buyer beware" leads to the death of those who are unable or unwilling to find out about a seller's past and a product's safety and efficacy.

I really wish that the strong requirements we set for medicine would apply to the alternative medicine, self-help, and "spiritual help" worlds. Specifically: that should show that it is safe and effective before they're allowed to peddle their wares to the market.
 
2014-08-24 10:01:58 AM  
31.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-08-24 10:05:10 AM  
lh4.googleusercontent.com
 
2014-08-24 10:07:40 AM  
Was it the owner of the Ted Talks silliness?

CSB:  My employer required me to attend a bunch of these "motivational" presentations in the 80s..  The common denominator was that they were all a bunch of carnie pitchmen dressed up in suits, who just made crap up and raked in money.

A group of us mid to low level managers, and the HR puke always attended.  The HR puke was always stupidly upbeat and cheerful, and would try to convince us how inspiring the talk was.  We all responded with thinly disguised scorn.
 
2014-08-24 10:09:47 AM  
Well in a way their problems are over.
 
2014-08-24 10:16:22 AM  

groppet: Well in a way their problems are over.


One of the defenses he tried to use to justify the deaths was a medium who contacted their spirits, and claimed that they were having such a great time with their out-of-body experience that they didn't want to return to their bodies.

So it's all OK that it looks like they may have died and Ray should not be held accountable.
 
2014-08-24 10:33:17 AM  

i.imgur.com

 
2014-08-24 10:36:12 AM  

mgshamster: groppet: Well in a way their problems are over.

One of the defenses he tried to use to justify the deaths was a medium who contacted their spirits, and claimed that they were having such a great time with their out-of-body experience that they didn't want to return to their bodies.

So it's all OK that it looks like they may have died and Ray should not be held accountable.


He actually used that defense in a court of law?

Please tell me you're joking?
 
2014-08-24 10:37:21 AM  
I guess my business plan is all wrong. I own a company that charges fees only  afterthe services are done. I work 7 days a week, many times past midnight  to accommodate clients. I am pulling anchor and mirror this guy. Sayonara suckers!

Visit me at www.iwipemyassonyourdollarbills.com
 
2014-08-24 10:38:15 AM  
The guy is no saint, but I have to admire his resilience. I have a hard time getting over a bad day at work, but he bounces back from 2 yrs in prison faster.
 
2014-08-24 10:45:45 AM  
Scammers gotta scam.
 
2014-08-24 10:48:13 AM  
The depressing bit is knowing that there are people out there who'll pay to see this scumbag and have probably rationalized his incarceration away as some nefarious government plot.
 
2014-08-24 10:49:07 AM  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkKr4hwTp74

Dateline: 'Deadly Retreat' with Chris 'Have A Seat Over There' Hansen.

So many desperate First World Problem Americans. This guy was making so much money, L. Ron would approve. That sweat lodge thing? $10,000 a head.
 
2014-08-24 10:50:33 AM  
His website says ticket holders can speak with Ray about challenges they face in their lives.

Hi Mr. Ray. I have these overwhelming urges to give money to people who rip off American Indian traditions and won't even give me any peyote.
 
2014-08-24 10:51:51 AM  

DaisyandSpot: The guy is no saint, but I have to admire his resilience. I have a hard time getting over a bad day at work, but he bounces back from 2 yrs in prison faster.


Don't give him too much credit. He had 2 years of otherwise peeling potatoes to think out his scheme. Give me two years and I could make WBC look like the Red Cross. I am drawing up plan now.
 
2014-08-24 10:52:29 AM  

mgshamster: People like this guy are precisely why we have regulations to protect the consumer.

The entire philosophy of "buyer beware" leads to the death of those who are unable or unwilling to find out about a seller's past and a product's safety and efficacy.

I really wish that the strong requirements we set for medicine would apply to the alternative medicine, self-help, and "spiritual help" worlds. Specifically: that should show that it is safe and effective before they're allowed to peddle their wares to the market.


So is shilling the new trolling?
 
2014-08-24 10:56:21 AM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: It's like sociopathic con-men just can't stop themselves. However, whoever bought a ticket to this thing deserves to be fleeced.


This.  Gullible people are gullible.
 
2014-08-24 11:09:33 AM  

darth_badger: Did he become " The Butt Love Guru" in prison?


Don't give away The Ending
 
2014-08-24 11:17:06 AM  
Well, whom better? I, for one, want to hear how he learned his lesson and is now going to make it up to all the people he can. A little faith in humanity goes a long way.
 
2014-08-24 11:18:40 AM  

drxym: The depressing bit is knowing that there are people out there who'll pay to see this scumbag and have probably rationalized his incarceration away as some nefarious government plot.


I admit I'm curious what the hell he will say, but I sure as shiat aint paying to hear it.
 
2014-08-24 11:20:39 AM  

Gig103: [doubtfulnewscom.c.presscdn.com image 579x334]

Was it George or Oscar?


I knew there was zero chamce of me getting here first :)
 
2014-08-24 11:43:08 AM  
Wasn't this guy one of Oprah's pets? Before the people roast, I mean.

I wonder if she'll do a "Where are they now?"
 
2014-08-24 12:05:08 PM  
Anything is permissible in the name of business. Right, libertarians?
 
2014-08-24 12:38:43 PM  

hardinparamedic: mgshamster: groppet: Well in a way their problems are over.

One of the defenses he tried to use to justify the deaths was a medium who contacted their spirits, and claimed that they were having such a great time with their out-of-body experience that they didn't want to return to their bodies.

So it's all OK that it looks like they may have died and Ray should not be held accountable.

He actually used that defense in a court of law?

Please tell me you're joking?


I'm uncertain where he used the defense - whether it was in court or before the charges were brought up - but he did use it.
 
2014-08-24 12:47:33 PM  

Just another Heartland Weirdass: mgshamster: People like this guy are precisely why we have regulations to protect the consumer.

The entire philosophy of "buyer beware" leads to the death of those who are unable or unwilling to find out about a seller's past and a product's safety and efficacy.

I really wish that the strong requirements we set for medicine would apply to the alternative medicine, self-help, and "spiritual help" worlds. Specifically: that should show that it is safe and effective before they're allowed to peddle their wares to the market.

So is shilling the new trolling?


I have no idea. I'm neither a shill nor a troll, and those who know me on fark will testify to that.

I'm a scientist first and foremost, and I will harp on any treatment where the provider or advocate lies in order to peddle their wares, whether it is an alterative medicine conman or a large corporation.

Regardless of how much the larger corporations like Merck or Pfizer try to skirt the law in order to sell a drug, as a nation we still believe that these drugs should be heavily regulated. And I am a strong proponent of medical regulation for safety and efficacy. I believe the same should hold true for claims of treatment outside of medicine as well - such as Ray's "don't drink water or eat food for two-three days and then go out into the desert in order to become spiritually cleansed for a mere $10,000 (plus extra if you want a sleeping bag to take with you into the desert)" conman tactic.

Regulations should be put in place to protect the consumer, because not every consumer is able or willing to discover the truth behind a product.
 
2014-08-24 12:56:30 PM  
I hope that if I ever murder three people I get to serve my time in a sweat lodge instead of a prison.
 
2014-08-24 01:11:22 PM  

groppet: I admit I'm curious what the hell he will say, but I sure as shiat aint paying to hear it.

Well, lucky for you, he has an entire website devoted to whatever the hell he wants to say! And this is what he says about all that unfortunate business:

In 2009, after rising to the top of his industry, James was involved in a terrible accident that claimed the lives of three people he cared about deeply. The anguish of that event would have been enough... but it didn't end there.
James subsequently lost his business that took 20 years to build, his entire life savings, his home, his reputation and many so-called friends and colleagues deserted him. Simultaneously, his Mother was diagnosed with cancer, his Father with dementia...James eventually lost his freedom.
Through all of this, James states, "In the process of losing everything...I actually found myself."
His experience proves that it's the challenges, difficulties and austerities of life that we reset ourselves, reboot, reassess and realize once again what's truly important. It's our challenges and crisis that present the greatest opportunities if we're only willing to utilize them in that way.

Well, I"m so glad that he came out of it OK. Because it's really about him, right? You didn't think he'd come out and say that he was at fault, did you? Nonono, silly groppet, that's not how you move forward. Move forward into strength, like he does. And if that's not inspiring enough for you, he has an entire blog and website just filled with his lusty principles of living:

Principles must precede practices. This understanding gives you both potential wisdom and understanding.
The only true power is a functional and integrated whole. Mastery is the synthesis of both Spirit and Form; Divinity and Humanity.
So with at least a beginners understanding of these two principles we move to the next:
Principle number three: Life is all there is; and death is illusion
Take a deep breath, sit up straight and buckle your seatbelt Dorothy because Kansas is going bye-bye.
- See more at: http://www.jamesray.com/blog/nothing-but-life/#sthash.dsGQb4n4.dpuf

Pretty inspiring, amirite? And there's just pages and pages of it, free for you!
 
2014-08-24 01:18:54 PM  

hardinparamedic: mgshamster: groppet: Well in a way their problems are over.

One of the defenses he tried to use to justify the deaths was a medium who contacted their spirits, and claimed that they were having such a great time with their out-of-body experience that they didn't want to return to their bodies.

So it's all OK that it looks like they may have died and Ray should not be held accountable.

He actually used that defense in a court of law?

Please tell me you're joking?


Found a link. Note this link is Page 2 of 2.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/22/us/22sweat.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0

He didn't use the defense in court, he used it during a conference call with the surviving participants of his Spiritual Warrior camp, as a way of explaining why three people died during that camp.

/Mind the fark inserted spaces.
 
2014-08-24 01:23:04 PM  
Don't know what Subby's complaining about. Clearly it was a non-violent crime and we have to, like, do something about prison overcrowding, maaan.
 
2014-08-24 02:47:42 PM  

Think 4D: Anything is permissible in the name of business. Right, libertarians?


Nope.
 
2014-08-24 03:21:40 PM  
People like this guy are the secular versions of 'Fundie televangelists, IMHO.

/ caveat emptor
 
2014-08-24 04:14:12 PM  

Just another Heartland Weirdass: So is shilling the new trolling?


Considering you're pulling the shill gambit to a toxicologist who regularly posts on FARK, and someone who is very well versed in the slimy tricks and tactics of the AltMed industry, a rational person would accuse YOU of being the troll.

You made that name in 2008. You've been here enough to know better.
 
2014-08-24 04:46:07 PM  
Short version: New Agers are deeply stupid.
 
2014-08-24 04:49:42 PM  

hardinparamedic: Just another Heartland Weirdass: So is shilling the new trolling?

Considering you're pulling the shill gambit to a toxicologist who regularly posts on FARK, and someone who is very well versed in the slimy tricks and tactics of the AltMed industry, a rational person would accuse YOU of being the troll.

You made that name in 2008. You've been here enough to know better.




I can't stand the unregulated so called "Alternative & complimentary medicine" industry because it is unregulated and full of expensive quackery. I recently talked to a naive young woman who got her degree in homeopathy, which is junk science that should have died with the advent of he discovery of germs in the 1880s.

She looked at me in earnest wanting to drum up business. I told her frankly I believe in science and I would never use her services. Never knew is she ever set up shop or if she eventually wished up and realized she wasted a whole lot of money and time.
 
2014-08-24 04:56:14 PM  

Astorix: I can't stand the unregulated so called "Alternative & complimentary medicine" industry because it is unregulated and full of expensive quackery. I recently talked to a naive young woman who got her degree in homeopathy, which is junk science that should have died with the advent of he discovery of germs in the 1880s.

She looked at me in earnest wanting to drum up business. I told her frankly I believe in science and I would never use her services. Never knew is she ever set up shop or if she eventually wished up and realized she wasted a whole lot of money and time.


If the "true believers" of "Supplementary and Complementary Alternative Medicine" (Hereto-forth referred to as SCAm) actually took a critical look at the practices and claims of SCAm, rather than believing that these people somehow discovered the  TruthTM about the world around them that totally disproves everything discovered about science, medicine, anatomy, physiology, biology, and chemistry - and in many cases mathematics and world history - over the last 200 years, they would find the industry ironically operates using the  exact same unsavory and evil methods that they accuse Big Pharma(1,2) of using.

Instead, we are left with a stunning example of the Dunning-Kruger effect combined with ego, and the lack of Science, Technology, and Medical education in the United States for the general population.(3)

1 - That is not to say that "Big Pharma" should not be criticised. They are guilty of many unsavory and downright evil practices - including outright lying on the effectiveness of many drugs (Atypical Antipsychotics, first and second gen SSRIs), and allowing marketing departments to outrule and override medical and science departments (see Vioxx scandal).
2 - Unlike Alternative Medicine, however, the drugs from "Big Pharma" stand a higher chance of saving and prolonging your life with quality, versus doing nothing more than the placebo effect if they even do that.
3 - Ironically, the majority of people who ascribe to alternative medicine tend to be political moderates and those who identify as "left" leaning in the United States - people who are generally expected to have a higher level of general education and STEM. The Right Wing DOES have it's own SCAm true believers, who tend to feed on anti-government and Christian persecution conspiracy theories, "Pro-Life" nonsense claims, and "Personal Freedom" arguments.
 
2014-08-24 08:22:20 PM  
The Sun Dance was outlawed not out of any concern for people's lives, but because of the strength that facing death gave the Plains Indians who performed (and still now legally perform) it. Facing death through initiation gives a group cohesiveness, strength, and secrecy. I'm sure the Sioux are happy they don't have to advertise their rituals to the sue-happy general public. It's one bare thread of sovereignty they still have.

We humans are peculiar creatures. Military units and college fraternities all have their hazing and initiation rituals. These are banned by the great authority, and for good reason--your life belongs to the State, after all. Only State approved rites of passage that may kill you are allowed--joining the military, getting your driver's license, being old enough to drink and smoke.

True initiation rituals never have had a guarantee of survival, be it a Sun Dance or getting your driver's license at 16. But do carry on with today's truly digital fist-app up your asses.You will feel so safe and live so long. And if and when you die, some sucker gets sued or goes to jail, because the State needs a cut of that action. So it was and so shall it forever be...
 
2014-08-24 10:00:28 PM  

Mithraic_bullshiat: The Sun Dance was outlawed not out of any concern for people's lives, but because of the strength that facing death gave the Plains Indians who performed (and still now legally perform) it. Facing death through initiation gives a group cohesiveness, strength, and secrecy. I'm sure the Sioux are happy they don't have to advertise their rituals to the sue-happy general public. It's one bare thread of sovereignty they still have.

We humans are peculiar creatures. Military units and college fraternities all have their hazing and initiation rituals. These are banned by the great authority, and for good reason--your life belongs to the State, after all. Only State approved rites of passage that may kill you are allowed--joining the military, getting your driver's license, being old enough to drink and smoke.

True initiation rituals never have had a guarantee of survival, be it a Sun Dance or getting your driver's license at 16. But do carry on with today's truly digital fist-app up your asses.You will feel so safe and live so long. And if and when you die, some sucker gets sued or goes to jail, because the State needs a cut of that action. So it was and so shall it forever be...


Well, that's certainly a load of horseshiat.
 
2014-08-25 10:27:23 AM  

Mithraic_bullshiat: The Sun Dance was outlawed not out of any concern for people's lives, but because of the strength that facing death gave the Plains Indians who performed (and still now legally perform) it. Facing death through initiation gives a group cohesiveness, strength, and secrecy. I'm sure the Sioux are happy they don't have to advertise their rituals to the sue-happy general public. It's one bare thread of sovereignty they still have.

We humans are peculiar creatures. Military units and college fraternities all have their hazing and initiation rituals. These are banned by the great authority, and for good reason--your life belongs to the State, after all. Only State approved rites of passage that may kill you are allowed--joining the military, getting your driver's license, being old enough to drink and smoke.

True initiation rituals never have had a guarantee of survival, be it a Sun Dance or getting your driver's license at 16. But do carry on with today's truly digital fist-app up your asses.You will feel so safe and live so long. And if and when you die, some sucker gets sued or goes to jail, because the State needs a cut of that action. So it was and so shall it forever be...


Well, that's an appropriate username...
 
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