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(Sports Illustrated)   Pete Rose hopes the odds are great that the new commissioner will give him another shot at re-instatement   (si.com) divider line 37
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349 clicks; posted to Sports » on 23 Aug 2014 at 3:42 PM (4 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



37 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-08-23 12:50:46 PM
I wouldn't bet on it.
 
2014-08-23 03:54:17 PM
See Shoeless Joe.
 
2014-08-23 03:56:09 PM
Ya just can't gamble on baseball.
For or against your team.
"I think I'll keep my closer rested for tomorrow when I can place a solid bet for our team".
 
2014-08-23 03:59:21 PM

wichitaleaf: See Shoeless Joe.


also see: Travesty
 
2014-08-23 03:59:29 PM
He'll get in once he dies, or is on his deathbed. He almost certainly won't get in otherwise.
 
2014-08-23 04:18:33 PM

veale728: He'll get in once he dies, or is on his deathbed. He almost certainly won't get in otherwise.


I don't think so. And his story that he didn't think accepting a lifetime ban included the HoF really doesn't wash.
 
2014-08-23 04:36:56 PM
Joe first, then we'll talk.
 
2014-08-23 04:52:13 PM

rjakobi: Joe first, then we'll talk.


^This
 
2014-08-23 04:56:21 PM
NOPE
 
2014-08-23 05:09:40 PM
The all-time hits leader (Rose), and the all-time home run leader (Bonds) will probably never get into the HOF.
You've got all sort of unsavory types in the hall, including KKK members.  But a stubborn, old man and a narcissist who doped aren't even considered.
Is it a hall for on-field performance, or one of character?  Because if it's the latter, it's time to start throwing statuettes out of Cooperstown.
 
2014-08-23 05:15:21 PM
Taking shots is what got a bunch of other people (virtually) banned from the HOF so I don't think that'll help Rose, either.
 
2014-08-23 05:20:04 PM

TheThighsofTorgo: The all-time hits leader (Rose), and the all-time home run leader (Bonds) will probably never get into the HOF.
You've got all sort of unsavory types in the hall, including KKK members.  But a stubborn, old man and a narcissist who doped aren't even considered.
Is it a hall for on-field performance, or one of character?  Because if it's the latter, it's time to start throwing statuettes out of Cooperstown.


Character has nothing to do with Rose being banned, it has to do with him breaking a rule that is posted in every Major League clubhouse and has been in effect for decades. There's no shades of grey for Rose. He has a lifetime ban. His fans can see him inducted posthumously.

Bonds and the other players from the Obvious Steroids Era are more of a grey area, because they didn't break any rules. They may have committed a baseball "crime", and they certainly violated the spirit of the game (other than the part that says "do everything you can to win, even cheating, just as long as you don't get caught"), but nothing they did was against the rules of the game at the time.
 
2014-08-23 05:26:33 PM

TheThighsofTorgo: The all-time hits leader (Rose), and the all-time home run leader (Bonds) will probably never get into the HOF.
You've got all sort of unsavory types in the hall, including KKK members.  But a stubborn, old man and a narcissist who doped aren't even considered.
Is it a hall for on-field performance, or one of character?  Because if it's the latter, it's time to start throwing statuettes out of Cooperstown.


as much as I despise the KKK, being a member is not illegal nor was it against MLB rules at the time when those players played. Character is part of the baseball HOF but one can't apply today's morals to yesterday's players.

I'm a reds fan and grew up with the Big Red Machine and loved Rose as a player but he doesn't belong at least not while he is alive.
 
2014-08-23 05:41:03 PM
Rose belongs in the HoF, but only after he has satisfied the "lifetime" part of the ban.
 
2014-08-23 05:57:13 PM
Maybe he could get in if they added a 'Hall of Shame' section for people that should be in the Hall of Fame proper, but farked it up.

Sort of a Dishonourable Mentions section.
 
2014-08-23 06:08:19 PM

rjakobi: Joe first, then we'll talk.


And Jackson's case is worlds better than Rose's. They had Rose dead to rights with a pile of physical evidence. The evidence against Jackson is tenuous at best, and was insufficient to obtain a conviction in court.
 
2014-08-23 06:12:55 PM

UNC_Samurai: rjakobi: Joe first, then we'll talk.

And Jackson's case is worlds better than Rose's. They had Rose dead to rights with a pile of physical evidence. The evidence against Jackson is tenuous at best, and was insufficient to obtain a conviction in court.


Isn't there also some thought that maybe Jackson was too naive to understand what was going on.
 
2014-08-23 06:25:39 PM
Pete Rose doesn't care about baseball.  Pete Rose only cares about Pete Rose and sees this only as a way to promote himself.  He claims to admit having gambled but conveniently forgets to 20 or so years when he lied to everybody in the face of the evidence.

F*CK PETE ROSE!!  He's an uneducated piece of shiat who wouldn't be as famous as your neighborhood bus driver if he couldn't hit a baseball.

Instead of being grateful for the opportunity to play a child's game for a living, he's always acted as an entitled sh*tbag.

fark Olberman too for defending this sh*ibag.  Olberman is becoming closer and closer to the old man yells at cloud parody every day.
 
2014-08-23 06:27:30 PM

Waldo Pepper: UNC_Samurai: rjakobi: Joe first, then we'll talk.

And Jackson's case is worlds better than Rose's. They had Rose dead to rights with a pile of physical evidence. The evidence against Jackson is tenuous at best, and was insufficient to obtain a conviction in court.

Isn't there also some thought that maybe Jackson was too naive to understand what was going on.


There have been all sorts of series over the years; that Jackson was intimidated, that he was illiterate (which is true; several of his contracts are signed with an X) and didn't realize what sort of trouble he could've gotten in, that he was duped by teammates, etc.

Every piece of testimony from his teammates indicated that he never actually kept any money given to the players by the fixers. And it seems somewhat unusual for a bunch of players who are getting the book thrown at them, to go out of their way to exonerate one of the other players - unless there was some truth to the story.
 
2014-08-23 06:41:03 PM

rjakobi: Joe first, then we'll talk.


Don't forget Buck Weaver.
 
2014-08-23 06:59:48 PM
Fark the Black Sox.

No one has ever accused Pete Rose of throwing games. The two don't compare just becasue of some weepy movie.
 
2014-08-23 07:07:49 PM

barneyfifesbullet: Fark the Black Sox.

No one has ever accused Pete Rose of throwing games. The two don't compare just becasue of some weepy movie.


It was a good movie tho...

Hell, I say put them all in....with their stories.  All time hit leader, gambled on the sport.  Joe? Let him in, he was great and who the hell knows what happened.  He'll always be a part of the legend of the sport to exclude them excludes their stories from the tapestry of the game.

/I type good when I'm drunkinhi
 
2014-08-23 07:27:56 PM

wichitaleaf: Ya just can't gamble on baseball.
For or against your team.


You would be amazed how many people in Cincinnati don't get that

red5ish: Rose belongs in the HoF, but only after he has satisfied the "lifetime" part of the ban.


a reasonable compromise
 
2014-08-23 07:45:29 PM

jchic: barneyfifesbullet: Fark the Black Sox.

No one has ever accused Pete Rose of throwing games. The two don't compare just becasue of some weepy movie.

It was a good movie tho...

Hell, I say put them all in....with their stories.  All time hit leader, gambled on the sport.  Joe? Let him in, he was great and who the hell knows what happened.  He'll always be a part of the legend of the sport to exclude them excludes their stories from the tapestry of the game.

/I type good when I'm drunkinhi


They aren't excluded. Their accomplishments have been recognized by the hall. A few years ago there was a special SHoeless Joe exhibit. They don't need to be inducted to be recognized.
 
2014-08-23 07:50:38 PM

Crewmannumber6: You would be amazed how many people in Cincinnati don't get that


If you actually believe no one since 1919 ever bet on baseball......

Pete Rose was targeted for a magazine article. There were others betting at the time. There always were.

And for those that whine about character, Ty Cobb and Cap Anson are two obvious examples among many more.
 
2014-08-23 08:33:04 PM

MFAWG: I don't think so. And his story that he didn't think accepting a lifetime ban included the HoF really doesn't wash.


The HoF changed the rules after his ban took effect, so unless you're implying he had a time machine...
 
2014-08-23 08:46:27 PM
cdn.bleacherreport.net
He helped get the Phillies their first World Series in 1980 so I say let him in.
 
2014-08-23 08:57:31 PM

barneyfifesbullet: Pete Rose was targeted for a magazine article. There were others betting at the time. There always were.


Ah, yes,  The "Hey!  Look Over There!" defense.  Unspecified people, somewhere, at some unspecified time, were as crooked as Pete Rose, therefore Pete Rose is automatically Commissioner and Hank Aaron has to grow the same haircut.

Book it.  Done.

For everyone else, some useful reading: Pete Rose Ruined Mario Soto's Career.
 
2014-08-23 09:16:56 PM

chimp_ninja: Pete Rose Ruined Mario Soto's Career.


Here's the box score of the last game of the Reds' 1984 regular season.  The Reds enter this game 70-91.  It's September 30th, and Mario Soto last pitched on September 26th, so he's only had 3 days of rest.

Let's see.  You're Pete Rose, manager of the Reds.  You're way out of contention.... and you decide to start your team's ace starter and most valuable player, and start him on short rest?

And then it gets worse.  Soto pitches a complete game, facing 39 batters.  (They didn't track pitch count back then, but batters generally see 3.8 pitches per trip to the plate, so estimate 148 pitches.)  He wasn't pitching well: 7 H, 6 ER, 5 BB, 8 K.  But the game was close all the way through, with the Reds scoring the winning run in the 9th.

Gee.  Why would Pete Rose run his team's star out there for ~148 pitches on short rest in a completely meaningless game?

Soto had one more season left in him, and then his arm broke down for good after 1985.  At age 28.

So fark Pete Rose.

--------------------

Post script: I've never seen video of this game.  Soto would have been up next to bat when the Reds' winning run scored with 1 out and the bases loaded in the 9th.  I wonder if Rose had Soto swinging a bat in the on-deck circle if Milner struck out, because he was planning to send him back out there for the 10th.
 
2014-08-23 10:26:27 PM

red5ish: Rose belongs in the HoF, but only after he has satisfied the "lifetime" part of the ban.


He doesn't have a lifetime ban.  He's on the permanently ineligible list.  When he dies he's still banned.
 
2014-08-23 10:37:55 PM

barneyfifesbullet: Crewmannumber6: You would be amazed how many people in Cincinnati don't get that

If you actually believe no one since 1919 ever bet on baseball......

Pete Rose was targeted for a magazine article. There were others betting at the time. There always were.


And do you have evidence of that?  Because there's evidence Pete Rose bet on baseball.  And every professional clubhouse he has ever walked into in his life has this printed on the wall:

Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.

He violated THE cardinal rule.  He was aware that it was against the rules, he was aware what the penalty was.  The supposition that someone else *may* have also broken that rule, regardless of the fact that you present no evidence of that, does not excuse his crime.  When Rose was a player Bowie Kuhn put Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays on the permanently ineligible list merely for working at a casino as a greeter.  The argument that it was widely considered to be okay does not hold water - it was very clearly known by everyone to be the most serious crime in baseball.
 
2014-08-23 11:13:16 PM

barneyfifesbullet: No one has ever accused Pete Rose of throwing games.


Well, Dowd apparently believes he bet against the Reds.
 
2014-08-23 11:18:18 PM

dywed88: barneyfifesbullet: No one has ever accused Pete Rose of throwing games.

Well, Dowd apparently believes he bet against the Reds.


And personally I wouldn't be surprised. Considering Rose denied gambling on baseball until 2004 I am not going to take his word on it.
 
2014-08-23 11:55:55 PM
Thought this was a good run down on the subject.

http://m.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/08/why-pete-rose- s till-cant-be-absolved/378866/

I wouldnt be surprised if he bet against them sometimes but even if not, theres not much ambiguity here.
 
2014-08-24 12:09:39 AM

veale728: He'll get in once he dies, or is on his deathbed. He almost certainly won't get in otherwise.


Shoeless Joe's been dead half a century and he's still not in. Rose is not sorry. He is only sorry he got busted, and he is only sorry he does not get to have a plaque. He is not sorry for actually gambling on baseball. He'll sign a ball for you saying he is, but he's not really sorry. At all.

People get in, or not, based on the standards of the era that is doing the voting. Ty Cobb got in when the color barrier was still up. Racism was not a factor in the slightest when he was inducted; in fact, at the time, many of the voters, pitting Cobb against Babe Ruth, would have taken Cobb. Obviously, this would never be the case today. But it doesn't matter what we think, because those were the standards in 1936.

All we can do is take the candidates that are before us now, in 2014, and induct based on the standards that we have now, in 2014. Holding people who live in 2014 to the standards of 1936 is ridiculous. If we held ourselves to those standards, we'd have to kick out Jackie Robinson and every other non-white HOF'er.
 
2014-08-24 12:25:13 AM

Gosling: Shoeless Joe's been dead half a century and he's still not in. Rose is not sorry. He is only sorry he got busted, and he is only sorry he does not get to have a plaque. He is not sorry for actually gambling on baseball. He'll sign a ball for you saying he is, but he's not really sorry. At all.


Also, even if a commissioner ended his ban he would still need to get 3/4 of the Veterans Committee and I wouldn't count on that.
 
2014-08-24 08:20:59 AM

chimp_ninja: For everyone else, some useful reading: Pete Rose Ruined Mario Soto's Career.


While Pete Rose was certainly a dumbass for running Soto out there on 3 days' rest for a losing team (running the guy out there to make bookies happy, perhaps?), Soto was being run into the ground the previous 3 seasons too (I'm too lazy to check rest times):

1984 (when Rose took over) - 13 CG out of 33 starts (rest of Reds staff had 14)
1983 - 18 CG out of 34
1982 - 13 out of 34
1981 - 10 CG out 00f 25 in an abbreviated season

So that arm was probably a ticking time bomb, waiting for somebody to blow it up, and that somebody was Pete Rose.  PED's make "real" sports too precariously close to professional wrestling as it is.

Hyman Roth: "I've loved baseball ever since Arnold Rothstein fixed the World Series in 1919."
 
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