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(KATU)   State of Oregon files racketeering lawsuit against Gambino Family because of construction kickbacks...check that...against Oracle for faked software bills   (katu.com) divider line 43
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2893 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Aug 2014 at 11:27 AM (16 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-08-23 07:51:21 AM  
[✔ ] Install the Ask Toolbar and make Ask my default search provider
 
2014-08-23 08:24:57 AM  
Larry must need some upgrades to his yacht
 
2014-08-23 09:04:54 AM  
As usual, one of the key paragraphs is buried a bit...
The suit comes just over two months before Gov. John Kitzhaber's re-election bid. In January, Kitzhaber told KATU News that he wasn't aware of any problems with the website until the end of October - nearly a month after the site failed to launch.

From what I've read, Oracle and crew made crappy software, while Kitzhaber and crew signed crappy contracts, and then followed up with non-existent oversight. As an example:


As The Oregonian first reported last fall, Oregon's contracts with Oracle did not include much in the way of performance guarantees, since the state bypassed normal contracting procedures in an effort to save time.
In fact, Oregon didn't have a direct contract with Oracle, instead relying on a contract with Dell that is designed to purchase software, not information technology services.
The arrangement used Dell as an intermediary, and Oracle was paid for time and materials, rather than a fixed price for working products.


/We've had, what, five high-level "Cover Oregon" officials quit or have been forced out because of the scandal because they weren't doing their jobs? I think it's something like that. At least one of them is suing the state, claiming they are a scapegoat. (Could be misremembering, this freaking scandal sucks so much and no one is taking responsibility for it.)
//If Oregon can claw back some of the money from Oracle for this piece of ... stuff, I would be happy, but I think it's time for the person at the top -- Kitzhaber -- to apologize for his lack of oversight in the project. He was touting his medical credentials when he was trying to get it set up, he might as well admit the buck stops with him and beg for forgiveness from voters.
 
2014-08-23 09:23:43 AM  
If I'm not mistaken, and based on their history, that's pretty much Oracle's business model
 
2014-08-23 10:27:10 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: If I'm not mistaken, and based on their history, that's pretty much Oracle's business model

The state claims Oracle lied about its ability to deliver an "out of the box" solution, which was supposed to make it easy to build the state exchange from scratch. It said that instead, one formal Oracle employee said the solution "literally garbage" that was seemingly configured by "a kindergartner."


My company is now 8 years and $36 million into an Oracle identity management project that was supposed to cost $2 million and take one year back in 2006. I have absolutely nothing nice to say about that company, and they've done such a shiatty job that we're shiatcanning them altogether and kludging together tools from other vendors to make AD our central authoritative directory.

Oracle is such a shiat company that they managed to kill a working 30 year old directory simply out of greed.
 
2014-08-23 11:03:14 AM  
As the Oregonian first reported last fall, Oregon's contracts with Oracle did not include much in the way of performance guarantees, since the state bypassed normal contracting procedures in an effort to save time.

In fact, Oregon didn't have a direct contract with Oracle, instead relying on a contract with Dell that is designed to purchase software, not information technology services.

The arrangement used Dell as an intermediary, and Oracle was paid for time and materials, rather than a fixed price for working products.


It's almost as if no-bid contracts lead to poor results...
 
2014-08-23 11:03:24 AM  
Oracle is going to clean Oregon's clock. The State contracted a T&M contract and kept integrator control. Oracle was doing what every T&M contract does, receive instruction, bill by the hour. The State clueless wankers constantly changed what they wanted all through the project. End result, a busted system that never worked and never will.

Oracle didn't have the project responsibility to make it work, the State did.

It's a lovely drama right before Kitzhaber's election, he and his cronies blew through almost 300 million and came up with squat. Cover Oregon is a HUGE disaster that has never worked.
 
2014-08-23 11:32:39 AM  
From what I've read Oracle held up their side and the state royally mismanaged the project and then blamed everything on Oracle.
 
2014-08-23 11:33:16 AM  
Let's see .. who to believe ..

1. Oregon, the fruitbasket of Asshat Government or,
2. The global software giant Oracle which has to produce something people are willing to buy
1. A government looking to CYA on the total failure of an Obama Exchange, or
2. A global software giant which has to produce to stay in business
1. An entity which makes its budget 'appropriating' other's hard earned wealth, or
2. A global giant that is only as good as it's last sale

(thinking thinking)
 
2014-08-23 11:33:40 AM  

Lsherm: MaudlinMutantMollusk: If I'm not mistaken, and based on their history, that's pretty much Oracle's business model

The state claims Oracle lied about its ability to deliver an "out of the box" solution, which was supposed to make it easy to build the state exchange from scratch. It said that instead, one formal Oracle employee said the solution "literally garbage" that was seemingly configured by "a kindergartner."

My company is now 8 years and $36 million into an Oracle identity management project that was supposed to cost $2 million and take one year back in 2006. I have absolutely nothing nice to say about that company, and they've done such a shiatty job that we're shiatcanning them altogether and kludging together tools from other vendors to make AD our central authoritative directory.

Oracle is such a shiat company that they managed to kill a working 30 year old directory simply out of greed.


Why not RDS?  Just curious.
 
2014-08-23 11:34:47 AM  
We really need more accountability like this, it's sad how much companies are fleecing us.

I'm proud of my city for fining a construction company each day they are over the deadline and not up to the specifications outlined.
 
2014-08-23 11:35:34 AM  

"That database array you requested has too many bugs? Fark you, pay me. We've missed multiple deadlines to finish the project? Fark you, pay me. You think we are overbilling you on the invoices? Fark you, pay me!"


/Now go home and get your farking server blade!

www.rewindreviews.com

 
2014-08-23 11:39:41 AM  
I actually worked at Oracle, not in software... but they SEEMED to have their shiat together, mostly. Quite organized and focused on fixing problems, finding root causes, etc. Other places I've worked were far more interested in sweeping problems under the rug and pretending they don't exist. Of course that was just my impression on the ground, I was not involved in any high level management of anything.
 
2014-08-23 11:40:09 AM  

Clemkadidlefark: Let's see .. who to believe ..

1. Oregon, the fruitbasket of Asshat Government or,
2. The global software giant Oracle which has to produce something people are willing to buy
1. A government looking to CYA on the total failure of an Obama Exchange, or
2. A global software giant which has to produce to stay in business
1. An entity which makes its budget 'appropriating' other's hard earned wealth, or
2. A global giant that is only as good as it's last sale

(thinking thinking)


Not sure if serious.
 
2014-08-23 11:47:07 AM  

Spare Me: Oracle is going to clean Oregon's clock. The State contracted a T&M contract and kept integrator control. Oracle was doing what every T&M contract does, receive instruction, bill by the hour. The State clueless wankers constantly changed what they wanted all through the project. End result, a busted system that never worked and never will.

Oracle didn't have the project responsibility to make it work, the State did.

It's a lovely drama right before Kitzhaber's election, he and his cronies blew through almost 300 million and came up with squat. Cover Oregon is a HUGE disaster that has never worked.


^ This.  Hiring professional services people on a T&M basis is almost as bad as hiring lawyers on a T&M basis.  They'll "work" 10 hour days, 6 days a week, unless you keep them under firm control at all times.
 
2014-08-23 11:47:24 AM  
Larry must need some upgrades to his yacht

They had to rebuild the America's Cup boat at least once after it flipped; those things aren't cheap.
 
2014-08-23 11:49:26 AM  
Dusty Lane reporting?!
 
2014-08-23 11:53:45 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Spare Me: Oracle is going to clean Oregon's clock. The State contracted a T&M contract and kept integrator control. Oracle was doing what every T&M contract does, receive instruction, bill by the hour. The State clueless wankers constantly changed what they wanted all through the project. End result, a busted system that never worked and never will.

Oracle didn't have the project responsibility to make it work, the State did.

It's a lovely drama right before Kitzhaber's election, he and his cronies blew through almost 300 million and came up with squat. Cover Oregon is a HUGE disaster that has never worked.

^ This.  Hiring professional services people on a T&M basis is almost as bad as hiring lawyers on a T&M basis.  They'll "work" 10 hour days, 6 days a week, unless you keep them under firm control at all times.


FTA sounds like Oracle convinced Oregon not to hire an outside integrator. It'll be interesting how this plays out and what emails get turned up.
 
2014-08-23 11:56:49 AM  
Should have just asked a group of high school kids. Taken half the time on only cost a box of Hot Pockets.
 
2014-08-23 12:04:37 PM  

Fantasta Potamus: We really need more accountability like this, it's sad how much companies are fleecing us.

I'm proud of my city for fining a construction company each day they are over the deadline and not up to the specifications outlined.


Government accountability still optional.
 
2014-08-23 12:09:04 PM  
Add Xerox to the list of shenanigans creators. http://www.tdmr.org/acsxerox-sued-nevada-obamacare-foulups/

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/albany/2014/07/8548292/competi to rs-question-states-medicaid-contract-xerox

And Clemkadiddlefark, your theory is adorable. It's both Oregon's fault and Oracle's fault.
 
2014-08-23 12:15:08 PM  

Spare Me: It's a lovely drama right before Kitzhaber's election, he and his cronies blew through almost 300 million and came up with squat. Cover Oregon is a HUGE disaster that has never worked.


Incompetent is still better than malevolent.  It would take misdeeds much, much worse than this to make me consider voting for Richardson.
 
2014-08-23 12:17:27 PM  

whither_apophis: Marcus Aurelius: Spare Me: Oracle is going to clean Oregon's clock. The State contracted a T&M contract and kept integrator control. Oracle was doing what every T&M contract does, receive instruction, bill by the hour. The State clueless wankers constantly changed what they wanted all through the project. End result, a busted system that never worked and never will.

Oracle didn't have the project responsibility to make it work, the State did.

It's a lovely drama right before Kitzhaber's election, he and his cronies blew through almost 300 million and came up with squat. Cover Oregon is a HUGE disaster that has never worked.

^ This.  Hiring professional services people on a T&M basis is almost as bad as hiring lawyers on a T&M basis.  They'll "work" 10 hour days, 6 days a week, unless you keep them under firm control at all times.

FTA sounds like Oracle convinced Oregon not to hire an outside integrator. It'll be interesting how this plays out and what emails get turned up.


There's a FBI probe too we're waiting to see. Just to make things juicy. We hope the report comes out before November.
 
2014-08-23 12:19:02 PM  

IoSaturnalia: Spare Me: It's a lovely drama right before Kitzhaber's election, he and his cronies blew through almost 300 million and came up with squat. Cover Oregon is a HUGE disaster that has never worked.

Incompetent is still better than malevolent.  It would take misdeeds much, much worse than this to make me consider voting for Richardson.


This kind of corruption has been going on for 30 years and Richardson isn't Darth Vader. Ditch the koolaid, bra.
 
2014-08-23 12:36:35 PM  

reggaejunkiejew: From what I've read Oracle held up their side and the state royally mismanaged the project and then blamed everything on Oracle.


i'm guessing you don't know a lot about oracle then.
 
mhd
2014-08-23 12:38:38 PM  
ORA-1972 illegal offer refusal
 
2014-08-23 12:39:53 PM  
I worked for Oracle for a bit over year after they bought my company. I would believe every word of this lawsuit. They always paid their consultants peanuts, understaffed us, never had very experienced people aside from one or two, and were very hard on travel schedules.
 
2014-08-23 12:41:04 PM  

alternaloser: reggaejunkiejew: From what I've read Oracle held up their side and the state royally mismanaged the project and then blamed everything on Oracle.

i'm guessing you don't know a lot about oracle then.


Or computer services.
 
2014-08-23 01:23:14 PM  
I can't wait until they go the f*ck out of business. All they've done is hold back database development and software in general ever since they lost their relevance to Sybase back in the early 90's. Overpriced, bloated, overengineered, obsolete and incompatible with anything that they don't create themselves: this is old man's software and needs to do what old men do - DIE.
 
2014-08-23 01:42:42 PM  
Oregon should just seize the yacht, put bars on it, and float in the middle of some bay with the convicted defendants inside. They could listen to Ellison's sea stories until they all go mad. Too bad all the really good lawyers are fighting for Rico Perry.
 
2014-08-23 01:49:06 PM  
Ellison needs a new yacht.
 
2014-08-23 02:06:06 PM  
Ellison not only needs a new yacht, for one of hi cats. Butler.
 
2014-08-23 03:55:45 PM  
Don't be so hard on Oracle. Failing so hard that healthcare.gov is a lot better is impressive.
 
2014-08-23 04:00:30 PM  

clancifer: Lsherm: MaudlinMutantMollusk: If I'm not mistaken, and based on their history, that's pretty much Oracle's business model

The state claims Oracle lied about its ability to deliver an "out of the box" solution, which was supposed to make it easy to build the state exchange from scratch. It said that instead, one formal Oracle employee said the solution "literally garbage" that was seemingly configured by "a kindergartner."

My company is now 8 years and $36 million into an Oracle identity management project that was supposed to cost $2 million and take one year back in 2006. I have absolutely nothing nice to say about that company, and they've done such a shiatty job that we're shiatcanning them altogether and kludging together tools from other vendors to make AD our central authoritative directory.

Oracle is such a shiat company that they managed to kill a working 30 year old directory simply out of greed.

Why not RDS?  Just curious.


Now or then?  RDS wasn't around when we got quotes for it initially, and since we finally got Oracle to sync everything to AD, all of the information we need is already in an in-house directory.
 
2014-08-23 04:33:34 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Spare Me: Oracle is going to clean Oregon's clock. The State contracted a T&M contract and kept integrator control. Oracle was doing what every T&M contract does, receive instruction, bill by the hour. The State clueless wankers constantly changed what they wanted all through the project. End result, a busted system that never worked and never will.

Oracle didn't have the project responsibility to make it work, the State did.

It's a lovely drama right before Kitzhaber's election, he and his cronies blew through almost 300 million and came up with squat. Cover Oregon is a HUGE disaster that has never worked.

^ This.  Hiring professional services people on a T&M basis is almost as bad as hiring lawyers on a T&M basis.  They'll "work" 10 hour days, 6 days a week, unless you keep them under firm control at all times.


No.

As a consultant who works on t&m basis and avoids fixed bid contracts like the plague they are I can attest that fixed bid contracts are almost always doomed to fail.

Clients virtually never actually know what they want, let alone communicate that effectively.

Every contract we work under explicitly specifies scope of work and 'assumptions'. If anything comes up that falls outside those parameters we file a 'change order' which explains deficits in the original estimate based on lack of communication or challenges that arise from having to work with some other vendor the client included in the project.

This particular case, I expect, comes down to bsab. The state, most likely, didn't put enough time into specification, and Oracle is well known for gouging people. Professional services is not actually Oracle's cite strength. Their strength is product licensing. Product based companies and professional services companies have very different processes and organizational practices.

In any case, here's some reading for you.
http://www.todaysengineer.org/archives/te_archives/may01/te2.asp

http://www.excella.com/blog/fixed-price-vs-time-and-materials-better- s oftware-development-contract-type/
 
2014-08-23 05:25:40 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: Clemkadidlefark: Let's see .. who to believe ..

1. Oregon, the fruitbasket of Asshat Government or,
2. The global software giant Oracle which has to produce something people are willing to buy
1. A government looking to CYA on the total failure of an Obama Exchange, or
2. A global software giant which has to produce to stay in business
1. An entity which makes its budget 'appropriating' other's hard earned wealth, or
2. A global giant that is only as good as it's last sale

(thinking thinking)

Not sure if serious.


So, you whore for Big Government. Okay, I get that.

www.bookwormroom.com
 
2014-08-23 06:10:47 PM  
I believe both sides. Yep, Oracle is a vicious and greedy company. Yep, Oregon's state government is terminally stupid and corrupt.
 
2014-08-23 07:52:37 PM  

JakeJackson: I believe both sides. Yep, Oracle is a vicious and greedy company. Yep, Oregon's state government is terminally stupid and corrupt.


This, basically. The sad part is that tittering over who gets what percentage of blame is secondary to the fact that, because of this failure, other states used Oregon's abject failure and ridiculous expenditure as justification against implementing state exchanges. This didn't just hurt Oregon's citizens - it hurt the citizens of other states, as well.

Of course, their first mistake was going with Oracle...
 
2014-08-23 11:15:57 PM  
As an Oregon resident, and IT professional, I can say with absolute certainty that the State of Oregon is immensely stupid when it comes to technology. Their proposal process is a laughable joke that is so completely corrupted its impossible for anybody besides the Oracles and Dells of the world to win contracts. And the only reason they hire those companies is so the government workers can get cushy jobs with Oracle or Dell. State IT people are not just ignorant, they are also supremely lazy. They won't do a damn thing unless there is 110 meetings, approvals, and CYA memos.  They keep hiring big companies like Oracle, who just keeps ripping them off.

Frankly, I think the entire Oregon IT group should be fired and replaced.
 
2014-08-24 12:10:28 AM  

Pitabred: I worked for Oracle for a bit over year after they bought my company. I would believe every word of this lawsuit. They always paid their consultants peanuts, understaffed us, never had very experienced people aside from one or two, and were very hard on travel schedules.


Oh Lordy, this.  I stayed on at Oracle for 2 years after we were assimilated and our existing customer base started jumping to SFDC like crazy.  Not many souls want to deal with Oracle outside of hardware.
 
2014-08-24 01:49:12 AM  
They call it the Oracle "stack", but really it's more of a heap. Shiatty apps thrown together from third parties or in-house crapplications, and then shipped out only half-working. Then they charge you a fortune to try to get the shiat working.
You'd have to be a drooling idiot to buy from Orifice.
 
2014-08-24 08:08:49 AM  
My work mate and I who worked as IT 'executives' at a State level in a multinational called Oracle 'Obstacle' (decisions to use it were always made at the highest levels).

Years since I still haven't changed my opinion and proceed to suggest caution when dealing with them.
 
2014-08-24 09:54:27 AM  
Anyone who's ever had to deal with Oracles orphan files filling up all the storage knows who the bad guy is here.
 
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